Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Anyone know of any reason this won't continue in full blown time share barring an injury?
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Peyton Hillis or Jerome Harrison who is the guy? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter af592
- Start date
From a Cleveland beat writers twitter- quote from Harrison:
RB Jerome Harrison said he wants 20-30 carries a game."If I was coaching," he said, "I'd give myself the ball damn near every play."
about 1 hour ago via web
It's a weird situation. Mangini the week leading up to week 1 game says he thinks Harrison is going to grab the oppurtunity to be the lead back and run with it, says Harrison will get "plenty of work" in the game,etc..... Then he starts Hillis. Hillis moves the chains, but make some mistakes. They put Harrison in and from all accounts that I have read- other than bad playcalling where they just ran Harrison up the gut, he looked explosive.
All this should mean Harrison is the man- but so far that hasn't happened.
RB Jerome Harrison said he wants 20-30 carries a game."If I was coaching," he said, "I'd give myself the ball damn near every play."
about 1 hour ago via web
It's a weird situation. Mangini the week leading up to week 1 game says he thinks Harrison is going to grab the oppurtunity to be the lead back and run with it, says Harrison will get "plenty of work" in the game,etc..... Then he starts Hillis. Hillis moves the chains, but make some mistakes. They put Harrison in and from all accounts that I have read- other than bad playcalling where they just ran Harrison up the gut, he looked explosive.
All this should mean Harrison is the man- but so far that hasn't happened.
And what is the won/loss record of all of those coaches? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Harrison is equal to CJ or ADP. He may not be among the top 25 rbs in the NFL. He may be below average, he may break down if he carries 20+ times a game for more than a few weeks. However, when given the opportunity, he has done well and the team has been competitive, if not won. While Mangini may not "feel" that Harrison is capable, what are his better alternatives? More Hillis and more Delhomme? Anyone really think that is the way to go? I don't so much mind Hillis and Harrison splitting carries as much as I mind arguably the worst starting qb in the league throwing to arguably the worst receiving corps in the league twice as often as they hand off. Bottom line, Harrison, 9 carries....Delhomme, 37 pass attempts. Do you honestly think ANYONE not affiliated with the Browns would have thought that a recipe for success?Winky the tunnel ferret said:Raider Nation said:Can I say one (most likely unpopular) thing about Mangini? Chances are he didn't get to where he is by being a complete moron.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.
The exception to the above rule is anyone who has coached the Oakland Raiders since 2002.IIRC, this is not the first HC in Cleveland that has refused to let Harrison carry the load. This reminds me somewhat of Norwood. No matter how great we think the player is, the coaches clearly feel the guy is not capable of carrying the load.
Oh boy...every time someone makes a pro-hillis/anti-harrison post, you're johnny on the spot. Has the thought crossed your mind that you may be a bit biased due to your investment in Harrison? Just because Harrison carried 30+ and the Browns won all the games doesn't mean that the Browns won due to Harrison. There are 22 players on the field in each game, 1 individual regardless of the position cannot win games by himself. Not to mention the sample size of 3 games is obscenely tiny any any number of random factors may be responsible.I'm not saying that Hillis is going to be the #1 back in Cleveland, or even that Harrison is not a world beater. All i'm saying is that your "facts" are meaningless in this case. It has more relevance than "the browns won all 3 games that i was wearing a blue shirt in" since Harrison does effect the outcome, but not so much that you can glean anything conclusive from your "figures."The reality of the situation is that for managers, Hillis is currently the way to go. It is not because Hillis is better than Harrison, or even more likely to succeed. It is because there is more than 1 side in this equation --it is not a question of who has the more chance of success between these two. The question is, who is the better VALUE for the cost. Harrison is far more expensive than Hillis. In fact, i just picked up Hillis off the free agency list. He was almost free, while Harrison would still cost me a pretty penny to obtain.If i had my choice i would obviously take Harrison for free. But that choice is not available to me. Thus, Hillis is the way to go when taking into consideration COST which is just as important as the other side of the equation, reward.Otis said:
I can offer some good reasons, like the fact it didn't work in game 1 against a below average team and the fact that Mangini likely doesn't have that long a leash and will need to emphasize what works to have a chance to win...but considering that the Browns even tried to go pass happy with Jake Delhomme and a bunch of unproven receivers rather than giving the ball to the rbs that combined averaged over 5 yards a carry, I don't have much confidence in the wisdom of the Mangenious.
Otis
Footballguy
This has nothing to do with my "investment" in Harrison. Yes, I own him, but no, I don't need to start him. I have 3-4 guys above him on my depth chart. It's just an interesting/perplexing situation to me, and I have no idea what the coaches are thinking. I also own Jamal Charles, but I can see reasons for not starting him/giving him more carries (i.e., most importantly, whatever they are doing now is working, so why change it). This is completely different.And I'm not talking about one player winning or losing the game "by himself." But the reality is that a turnover really can be a way one player can lose the game by himself. And as for Harrison, it's not that he's winning the game by himself -- but that his performance in connection with the play calling seems to lead to success. Give him the ball 20 times, create some holes for him, and play good defense. It's a pretty simply recipe for them.I'm using a sample size of 3-5 games, which is admittedly small, because that's all there is. The coaches have never featured Harrison enough. When they do, they win. End of story.
Hillis will never put up the kinds of numbers Harrison put up at the end of last year. Harrison can. If you have to rely on Hillis, you're probably in really serious trouble this season...Not so sure about that, anymore. Drafts are over, the value stuff is out the window for the most part...now what matters is production. Given the questionable (to put it nicely) offensive gameplan in week 1 and the even split, neither Cleveland rb is really usable right now. Both should be rostered in most leagues as one (if not both) will probably emerge as a reasonably productive player. It's great if you have a roster spot for Hillis to see what happens, but I don't care much about value anymore.
This is exactly it. While I may disagree with how the Chiefs use Jones/Charles, at least Jones has proven himself in this league. There is some justification for giving him a significant role in the offense. What the Browns are doing simply makes no sense because they are de-emphasizing Harrison, who HAS contributed significantly to wins for this team in the past, in favor of a rb that has proven even less and a declining 35 year old qb that has been consistently atrocious dating back to the 2008 playoffs. Given his limited track record, I don't mind the Browns/Mangini's lack of confidence in Harrison, but it makes NO sense to have as much if not more confidence in Delhomme and Hillis. Harrison has done a good job when given the opportunity. Hillis has never really had an opportunity (and never projected to be a #1 rb) and with every start Delhomme provides more evidence that he can't be trusted.
Kuz
Footballguy
no kidding. Not sure how many teams have lost a game in the history of the NFL when a guy carries the ball more than 30 times. They typically don't run that much when they are behind.Dexter Manley
Footballguy
As far as RBBC's go, this isn't really confusing. People need to quit complaining about how Mangini is using these guys and simply analyze the reality of the situation. Both guys are going to see significant touches. Think of Harrison and Hillis as the poor man's Julius Jones and Marion Barber RBBC from a few years back in Dallas.
In ppr and td heavy leagues, I think Hillis is the guy to own.
In non-ppr leagues, I think Harrison is the guy to own.
That's my take.
In ppr and td heavy leagues, I think Hillis is the guy to own.
In non-ppr leagues, I think Harrison is the guy to own.
That's my take.
Otis
Footballguy
Worthless right up until the point that Hillis fumbles away a game that was in reach?
Ah the good ole YPC argument, something to fall back on for those that don't watch the games or know more about football than their fantasy teams.He rushes 35 times a game... the entire world knows that he is getting the ball, while his QB worthless and throwing blindly for 80 yards per game, and the defense stacks 8+ men in the box. 3.8 ypc in those last two games was a great performance.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Well, I like this argument and even thought of it (as many may have) but... then there's this:
the Texans have won plenty of games without running the ball well.
The Browns have not won any (or almost none) for quite a while unless they have run the ball well, oft, and repeatedly.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
So you were the one.
Neofight
Footballguy
Good points. There was similar nonsensical "facts" way back in the day with Tony Dorsett and 100 yard games. I though it was silly then, this "Harrison must have X amount of carries for the Browns to be successful" is equally silly. To say nothing of the fact that no NFL back will hold up under the stress of that many carries, much less one of Harrison's stature. He is a nice back though.
Hank Mardukas
Footballguy
I agree with your general line of reasoning that correlation does not equal causation, but you used a terrible example. The Texans most certainly DID win because Foster carried the ball 30+ times. Houston exploited a terrible run defense and Kubiak was smart enough not to go away from what was working (like many coaches stupidly seem to do all the time). Running the ball in the second half definitely had the added bonus of keeping the clock running, but it was also demoralizing the Colts D and producing points. Now if your point is that it would silly to say the Texans should have Foster run 30+ times every game because it worked this time, then I agree. Kubiak exploited a matchup and it worked. Other teams will have different defensive strengths and weakness, and the Texans will use a different approach. In fact, Kubiak has publicly stated as such. The games Harrison carried 30+ times and the Browns won were against Oakland, KC, and Jacksonville - the #29, #31, and #19 run defenses. Maybe Mangini isn't so stupid afterall. Wait, no, he's still stupid.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
And Tampa?They allowed the most yards rushing last year and the highest YPC average.
The pass/split was 38/23 (18 carries by the RB's).
GregR_2
Footballguy
I haven't seen the game. Maybe someone who actually watched it can chime in here. Here are the touches by the two backs:
One run of 39 yards, two runs of 6 yards, a 2 yard run, four 1 yard runs, a no gainer and a -4. One catch for 7 yards. Not having seen the game, it looks like he was still getting touches because they didn't want to give up on the running game as opposed to him getting it done and earning more touches. Most of his carries came with 9 or 10 yards to go for a first and in most of them they didn't end up in a good down and distance after the carry. Passing game he was targeted once it looks like. Was he out on passing plays in general then? If not, how did he look in pass protection?While it doesn't matter to me in fantasy if they have 19 rushes for no gain and a 100 yard run, vs 20 runs of 5 yards... there is a big difference in which one you want to see as a stat line from a non-fantasy standpoint where you're trying to keep a drive alive. Was there anything from actually watching the game that indicated why he was ineffective on the majority of his carries?
Looking at Hillis in the same light. It looks like he got stuffed three times when running, picked up 4 yards three times, and then had runs of 7, a 10 yard TD, and a 12 yard run. It looks like he was more consistent in moving the ball compared to Harrison. Also had a lot of touches on first and 10, plus a couple shorter 2nd down carries.Then the fumbles, obviously a problem. Can someone who saw the game comment on them? Was he protecting the ball well but it was just a great hit on him, or did he lose them because he wasn't carrying it right?The passing game it looks like he was more involved than Harrison was, with 5 targets. A fairly even sprinkling of results between shorter and longer gains. Does this mean he was generally in there on passing plays? How did his pass protection look?Without having seen the game, just going off what they did with each touch, it looks like Hillis was the more productive back, and possibly the one who got more opportunities for being in on passing plays. Harrison was hit or miss, you want to see more runs that are at least 3 and hopefully 4 yard or more pickups so you're in a decent situation on 2nd down where running again is an option that will get you to third and short on an average run.If this isn't the case, can someone who saw the game shed more light?14. 1-10-CLE 13 (8:56) 17-J.Delhomme pass short right to 40-P.Hillis pushed ob at CLV 29 for 16 yards (31-E.Biggers). 15. 1-10-CLE 29 (8:34) 40-P.Hillis up the middle to CLV 29 for no gain (93-G.McCoy). 28. 1-10-CLE 49 (4:16) 17-J.Delhomme pass short left to 40-P.Hillis to CLV 47 for -2 yards (36-T.Jackson, 54-G.Hayes). 30. 3-12-CLE 47 (3:27) (Shotgun) 40-P.Hillis up the middle to TB 41 for 12 yards (51-B.Ruud). 46. 1-10-CLE 1943) 40-P.Hillis left end to CLV 23 for 4 yards (31-E.Biggers, 51-B.Ruud). 18. 1-10-CLE 37 (8:44) 40-P.Hillis left guard to CLV 41 for 4 yards (93-G.McCoy). FUMBLES (93-G.McCoy), and recovers at CLV 41. 40-P.Hillis to CLV 41 for no gain (51-B.Ruud). 19. 2-6-CLE 41 (7:59) 40-P.Hillis left guard to CLV 45 for 4 yards (92-B.Price). 23. 1-10-TB 10 (5:42) 40-P.Hillis left end for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN. WATCH HIGHLIGHT 44. 1-10-TB 39
Hank Mardukas
Footballguy
And your point is...?
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Porkchop
Footballguy
I'm confused... are you trying to support Jerome Harrison, or are you making fun of him for repeatedly getting stuffed by a bad run defense?Here's a secret for those of you who don't actually watch browns football... Harrison was in for more series than Hillis. The reason Harrison had so few carries is this is what happened when we tried to feed him the ball...1-10 J.Harrison right guard to CLV 8 for 1 yard (54-G.Hayes).2-9 J.Harrison left tackle to CLV 4 for -4 yards (54-G.Hayes).3-13 J.Harrison left end to CLV 10 for 6 yards (91-S.White).Everyone is saying, "Give him the ball 30 times". It's hard to do when we only get 3 plays per series.Again... I LIKE Harrison. But he can't do all the things Hillis can (or vice-versa).TBH... it's hard to discuss football with people whose only analysis of a player is based on YPC and rediscovering the "Randy Ratio". Or is that the "Jerome Percentage"?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Understood.My comment was only in response to the prior comment about Mangini having been smart enough to run it repeatedly against poor defenses. That's a simple one, I agree, so what happened vs Tampa?I watched some of the game Sunday. And I watched some of the games last year. I've seen Harrison run. And I've seen Hillis run, he's good, I remember him from the SEC & vs LSU. As a Saints fan I've learned to pull for the underdogs with good fans and I do tend to follow the Browns. But a Browns fan would know best.But I also don't understand the presumption that getting stuffed at the line = stop running the ball with Harrison (or anyone else) or stop running the ball period. Especially if the team has mediocre QB/WR / passing/receiving personnel.I've seen a lot of Delhomme and with him being at the stage he's at I'm pretty sure the Browns won't get far with a 38/23 pass/run split either.This is just a football discussion more than a FF discussion now. Run Hillis and Harrison each 15 times, whatever the share, if a team is going to win just don't give up on the run.I'm confused... are you trying to support Jerome Harrison, or are you making fun of him for repeatedly getting stuffed by a bad run defense?Here's a secret for those of you who don't actually watch browns football... Harrison was in for more series than Hillis. The reason Harrison had so few carries is this is what hapened when we tried to feed him the ball...1-10 J.Harrison right guard to CLV 8 for 1 yard (54-G.Hayes).2-9 J.Harrison left tackle to CLV 4 for -4 yards (54-G.Hayes).3-13 J.Harrison left end to CLV 10 for 6 yards (91-S.White).Everyone is saying, "Give him the ball 30 times". It's hard to do when we only get 3 plays per series.Again... I LIKE Harrison. But honestly it's hard to discuss football with people whose only analysis of a player is based on YPC and rediscovering the "Randy Ratio". Or is that the "Jerome Percentage"?
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Hank Mardukas
Footballguy
Hence my comment that Mangini is still stupid.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
You did say that and you were right, you know.
Porkchop
Footballguy
Can't quote the whole article... but that was pretty spot-on analysis for someone who didn't watch the game.Jerome is a speed back... he has some niftiness in the hole, but he's not a break-your-ankles type player. He's at his best in the open field when he can use his burst to make tacklers mid-judge their angle, or just flat out run past them. His weakness is that if someone catches him, he generally goes down pretty easily. He needs room to operate in.He's more dependent on his blockers than Hillis... if they can get him through the line untouched, then he's off to the races. But more often, the RB is going to have to beat one player when he gets to the hole. Whether he beats that guy usually decides whether this is going to be a 1 yard run or a 25 yard one.I've only watched Hillis through our pre-season and the TB game. But he appears to be a solid power back... in the Alstott mold, except not as deceptive a runner. I haven't seen enough to know if Hillis can diagnose all his blitz pickups, but he's a really solid blocker. Harrison will occasionally get overpowered in pass protection.I guess my summary is... which you prefer probably depends on who is winning in the trenches. If your O-Line is dominant, then Harrison can make the most of that. If the line is crowded, Hillis is the guy who can break some tackles and drive for extra yardage.In the Tampa game, Hillis looked better to me. He had his fumbles... but don't forget that Harrison led the Browns in fumbles this pre-season. I don't think it's a habit for either of them.
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Watch you talkin' 'bout Hillis?The Hillis Have EyesBeverly Hillis 90210Benny HillisThe Hillis Are Alive With the Sound of MusicHillis Street Cops
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
What the #### is "You're safe with Alstott"?
it absolutely should be a rbbc of sorts. but, harrison should get a decent majority of carries. he gets positive yards and gives a homerun threat. hillis moves the pile and is fierce. use him as a change of pace and short yardage back. and the browns should run it a lot more than they did. letting delololhome throw it all over the field with a 14-3 lead and bad ankle is not the best option. no way the 2 backs should combine for 18 carries when the browns are milking a nice lead for most of the game.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
I'm pretty sure he was going for "you are in good hands"
Porkchop
Footballguy
Yeah.. I don't disagree with this. It's worth saying that through the first three quarters, we had a pretty balanced attack. We had 14 straight passing attempts in the 4th quarter after we lost the lead. By my math... that means we had 24 passes, and 23 runs up through that point.I think a big part of the mistake was actually trying to keep going with Delhomme after he was obviously hurt. And hurt bad enough that he's not playing in Week 2. We also pulled Hillis for a long time after his fumble, which I think hurt our ability to sustain drives.I still don't have a sense for what the right balance should be for our new offense. I agree that the run game should probably be our bread and butter... but our passing offense has been completely overhauled, and it's still too early for me to judge how that turned out.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I christen the Browns offense.... AIR DELHOMME! Gaze upon the boringness of a white guy with very ability to move the ball past four yards, a QB who throws four picks a game and no WR talent to speak of. Mangenius I say... All bow!
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Post #9, the game recap, the RB thread this week, it happened in the CITS where Alstott used to play...
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
blake
Footballguy
yup, same here. not altogether sure what i can get for him, but i would love to trade him. i'm offering him for other RB's and WR's, and so far, no bites.
Take it for what its worth but last season Harrison didn't get playing time or the chance to get his turn because he was not dedicated. He admitted it. He felt there was no way they were going to look his way so he was just in the motions. Mangini approached him and ask him if something was wrong and after they had talked, Harrison was dedicated and got the job. Hillis was brought in to use as a goalline back but his hard work in the preseason and practice earned him a start against Tampa. I do expect Harrison to get it going but the question is when?
daveR
Footballguy
Good info. Spot on. Anybody else remember when the Shark Pool was a reliable source of info?"Mangini nees to be fired" is opinion, not info. "Harrison is a third down back" is opinion (and incorrect, BTW), not info. "Hillis is Alstott part 2" is schtick.
dmac37
Footballguy
I'm going to quote my original post but I really believe the above is where the truth lies.During the OTA's and pre-season it sounded like Hardesty was getting the bulk of the first team reps and in line to be the guy.They also targeted Hillis and either:A) they knew what they were getting B) after he arrived and Hardesty was out with his first injury, Hillis proved to be the best looking RB on the teamOdds are it is going to be some form of RBBC. There are three ways to score points in FF:Touchdowns- advantage HillisYards- advantage HarrisonReceptions- advantage HillisAs an owner of both in PPR my money is on Hillis
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I'll get grief from some of you who knows both backs better but reading some of these posts about Harrison makes me think of Willie Parker. Great speed without superior vision and cutback style leads to
great games when (a) your team is focused on the run and (b) the defense does not have great run stoppers (see Harrison at the end of last year). The same style does not work against decent to very good defenses. Years with the Steelers, Parker would have good to great games against average to poor run defenses, he would be hit-or-miss from play to play against the good defenses and he would get completely shut down by the very good defenses. Meanwhile, you had a guy like Bettis who would break tackles and plow through for 3-4yds a carry even against the very good defenses (with an occasional field day against the weak) with little variation.
Do not think that I'm putting Harrison and Hillis in the same mold as Parker and Bettis, but it might be worth considering as you decide who to play from week to week in this clear RBBC.
great games when (a) your team is focused on the run and (b) the defense does not have great run stoppers (see Harrison at the end of last year). The same style does not work against decent to very good defenses. Years with the Steelers, Parker would have good to great games against average to poor run defenses, he would be hit-or-miss from play to play against the good defenses and he would get completely shut down by the very good defenses. Meanwhile, you had a guy like Bettis who would break tackles and plow through for 3-4yds a carry even against the very good defenses (with an occasional field day against the weak) with little variation.
Do not think that I'm putting Harrison and Hillis in the same mold as Parker and Bettis, but it might be worth considering as you decide who to play from week to week in this clear RBBC.
amnesiac
beer is good
saw an article on Harrison in the paper but can't find it. said something about that Mangini likes Hillis because he gets more consistent yards.
here are Harrison's carries. i'll let you guys figure out what it all means:
1-10-CLV 43 (12:36) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 45 for 2 yards (B.Ruud, R.Miller).
1-10-TB 49 (6:37) J.Harrison up the middle to TB 10 for 39 yards (S.Jones).
1-10-CLV 18 (14:55) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 24 for 6 yards (G.McCoy, K.Moore).
1-10-TB 28 (12:48) J.Harrison up the middle to TB 27 for 1 yard (K.Moore).
1-10-CLV 39 (9:20) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 40 for 1 yard (G.Hayes).
2-10-CLV 29 (4:39) J.Harrison up the middle to CLV 29 for no gain (G.Hayes).
1-10-CLV 7 (10:47) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 8 for 1 yard (G.Hayes).
2-9-CLV 8 (10:09) J.Harrison left tackle to CLV 4 for -4 yards (G.Hayes).
3-13-CLV 4 (9:25) J.Harrison left end to CLV 10 for 6 yards (S.White).
they also seem to like Hillis more in the passing game as he was targeted 4 times verses once for Harrison.
here are Harrison's carries. i'll let you guys figure out what it all means:
1-10-CLV 43 (12:36) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 45 for 2 yards (B.Ruud, R.Miller).
1-10-TB 49 (6:37) J.Harrison up the middle to TB 10 for 39 yards (S.Jones).
1-10-CLV 18 (14:55) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 24 for 6 yards (G.McCoy, K.Moore).
1-10-TB 28 (12:48) J.Harrison up the middle to TB 27 for 1 yard (K.Moore).
1-10-CLV 39 (9:20) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 40 for 1 yard (G.Hayes).
2-10-CLV 29 (4:39) J.Harrison up the middle to CLV 29 for no gain (G.Hayes).
1-10-CLV 7 (10:47) J.Harrison right guard to CLV 8 for 1 yard (G.Hayes).
2-9-CLV 8 (10:09) J.Harrison left tackle to CLV 4 for -4 yards (G.Hayes).
3-13-CLV 4 (9:25) J.Harrison left end to CLV 10 for 6 yards (S.White).
they also seem to like Hillis more in the passing game as he was targeted 4 times verses once for Harrison.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Is this the article?
I was reading this this morning.
I love the comments from the Cleveland fans, 4 pages of them. They don't seem so undecided about what to do.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...09/post_33.html
lol at using one game as proof that hillis is "more consistent."
amnesiac
beer is good
no, that's not the one. the one i'm thinking of had all the carries from the tampa game listed. that's why i dug through the game book and listed them.btw, i'm not holding this out as my theory, just relating what i read. which is why i wish i could find the article to share, as it might help shed some light on what the coaches are thinking.
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Dexter Manley
Footballguy
That's nice, but this has no relevance in this thread, as we're now in the 2010 season. Tampa Bay's interior dline should be vastly improved this year with McCoy and Price.
OK. Don't know if Mangini really said that, but assuming so, it's not a very good excuse.First, you should like the guy that gets the "most" yards. Second, Hillis doesn't have enough of a track record to be considered consistent at anything...he has 90 career carries. He may, ultimately, be a better rb than Harrison, but Mangini is treating the situation as though Hillis has already proven equal or better. In short, Hillis gets every benefit of the doubt, and Harrison gets none, in spite of the fact that Harrison actually played impressively in real NFL games coached by Mangini.Third, it's not just Hillis/Harrison. If they both got 15 carries and a couple of receptions, people wouldn't be as confused about what Cleveland is doing. The fact that neither of them got enough touches to be relevant is throwing everyone off. The pass heavy approach when your starting qb and receivers are among the worst in the NFL simply makes no sense. Delhomme threw 37 passes, Hillis/Harrison got 18 carries. It doesn't inspire much confidence in the Cleveland coaching staff that they unnecessarily went against their strengths, which resulted in 14 points scored and a loss. Tough to rationalize how that was the right approach.
Whoa, are suggesting the O-line of Cleveland last year is equal to the O-line of the Jets? I think there is a huge difference. I have no idea who's going to be better between Harrison/Hillis, but I think Harrison played quite well for a team with zero passing offense at the end of last season. Doesn't mean he'll repeat though...
