Peyton Hillis or Jerome Harrison who is the guy? (1 Viewer)

[latrops]

Ah the good ole YPC argument, something to fall back on for those that don't watch the games or know more about football than their fantasy teams.He rushes 35 times a game... the entire world knows that he is getting the ball, while his QB worthless and throwing blindly for 80 yards per game, and the defense stacks 8+ men in the box. 3.8 ypc in those last two games was a great performance.

Those were poor rush defenses and the games were relatively close. When you are up by 2-3 TD in the 4th quarter, yes, everyone knows you are going to run. But when it is a one score game you have to play both the run and the pass. 3.8 ypc was unimpressive at best. He had 39 for 148 against the Raiders. Greene had 19 for 144 against the same team during a 38-0 blowout. I'm pretty sure Oakland was expecting the run a little more in the Jets game than the Browns game. Here are Harrison's rushes in the second half of the Raiders game when the score started 17-9 (still only a 1 score game): 4, 1, 1, 1, 8, 10, 1, -1 (fumble lost), 5, 6, 2, 2, 4, 0, 2, 7, 2, 2, 5, 3, 1, 0.You Harrison owners need to take the blinders off. If you give him 30+ carries you'll maybe get 2-3 long runs and 7-8 three and outs. Hillis moves the chains. There have been some great posts on this (GregR's was probably the best).

I'm not really asking for 30+ carries. He has a somewhat slight build, so I'm fairly confident that he would break down if the Browns tried to get him 480+ carries this year (obviously, NOBODY expects 30+ carries a week). That said, he has averaged almost 5 yards a carry in his career...so 9 carries a game against a mediocre defense when there is no good, proven rb to feature over Harrison seems pretty illogical. There is a big gap between 9 and 30. Most Harrison owners would be satisfied with, say, 15+ carries and 2 or 3 catches a week....with the workload being adjusted based on his productivity and game situations. Every once in a while, 9 carries might be justified...and every once in a while, 33 carries might be justified.

 

[cvnpoka]

saw an article on Harrison in the paper but can't find it. said something about that Mangini likes Hillis because he gets more consistent yards.

...

Is this the article?

I was reading this this morning.

I love the comments from the Cleveland fans, 4 pages of them. They don't seem so undecided about what to do.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...09/post_33.html

im sure all of those posts are from disgruntled harrison owners in fantasy football.

 

[bjabrad]

Hillis will never put up the kinds of numbers Harrison put up at the end of last year. Harrison can. If you have to rely on Hillis, you're probably in really serious trouble this season...

You'd be surprised at the numer of backs who can rumble for ~4ypc. If you give any back on a roster 38 carries, they'll likely net you 100+ yards. As mentioned before, the conclusion that giving Harrison 30+ carries leads to success is nothing short of ridiculous. I don't know if you've watched football before, but it is very common that they run a stat saying "the Redskins are 9-1 when Clinton Portis rushes for 25 or more times in a game" or something very similar to that. Winning leads to lots of rushes. Did the Texans win because Arian Foster had 33 rushes? No, the Texans only passed the ball 7 times in the second half because they were winning. You've got to let this "Harrison wins games" line of thought go. It is worthless.

I agree with your general line of reasoning that correlation does not equal causation, but you used a terrible example. The Texans most certainly DID win because Foster carried the ball 30+ times. Houston exploited a terrible run defense and Kubiak was smart enough not to go away from what was working (like many coaches stupidly seem to do all the time). Running the ball in the second half definitely had the added bonus of keeping the clock running, but it was also demoralizing the Colts D and producing points. Now if your point is that it would silly to say the Texans should have Foster run 30+ times every game because it worked this time, then I agree. Kubiak exploited a matchup and it worked. Other teams will have different defensive strengths and weakness, and the Texans will use a different approach. In fact, Kubiak has publicly stated as such.

The games Harrison carried 30+ times and the Browns won were against Oakland, KC, and Jacksonville - the #29, #31, and #19 run defenses. Maybe Mangini isn't so stupid afterall.

Wait, no, he's still stupid.

And Tampa?They allowed the most yards rushing last year and the highest YPC average.

The pass/split was 38/23 (18 carries by the RB's).

This sounds like the smartest analysis to me. Harrison has the highest upside against weak defenses like KC last year but Hillis is more consistent and will break tackles, catch the ball and move the chains. So it just comes down to identifying really bad rushing defenses that Harrison can go off against and the rest of the time Hillis will be more consistent. The one thing that would make this analysis void would be the fact that Harrison didn't compete against Hillis last year and Hillis is probably better than anybody that Harrison competed against last year. So THIS year we've only got preseason (Hillis) and game #1 (Hillis) to go on for our small sample size. I don't have either one but Hillis is available and he's worth picking up for trade bait or as my RB4.

 

[Bojang0301]

Gaze upon thy Cleveland offense as DCoordinators snicker with delight and DB's feast on the helpless Delhomme limp noodle pass.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Just a thought, hillis probably catches more balls than Harrison because he's in on passing downs.

Why? Because he blocks. Hes better at blitz pick up. Harrison couldn't crack back on a pop warner linebacker.

 

[plyka]

Harrison owner - "The coach is miserable, give the guy the rock, he is the better RB, do you remember the last 3 games last year?"Hillis owner - "This guy is an Alstott clone, do you remember what he did when he was in Den?"Non-owner - "This has RBBC written all over it. Could be a 60/40 spilt, in PPR I would lean towards Hillis, but really wouldn't want to rely on either one."

Not really.Lots of great opinions in here. Here's some facts instead:Harrison has carried 30+ carries three times -- in the last three games. The Browns won all three of those games. In Harrison's only other 20+ carry game of the season, they lost by a field goal. The history is what it is, and the facts are what they are.The two Hillis fumbles probably cost them the game this week, too. If you instead give Harrison the ball -- as in the past -- the Browns have a better chance of winning.Harrison doesn't have to be special. But he's more skilled and well rounded than people seem to recognize. The Browns are an underrated run blocking team. Arian Foster isn't special. He's sufficiently talented to get the job done in that scheme.

Oh boy...every time someone makes a pro-hillis/anti-harrison post, you're johnny on the spot. Has the thought crossed your mind that you may be a bit biased due to your investment in Harrison? Just because Harrison carried 30+ and the Browns won all the games doesn't mean that the Browns won due to Harrison. There are 22 players on the field in each game, 1 individual regardless of the position cannot win games by himself. Not to mention the sample size of 3 games is obscenely tiny any any number of random factors may be responsible.I'm not saying that Hillis is going to be the #1 back in Cleveland, or even that Harrison is not a world beater. All i'm saying is that your "facts" are meaningless in this case. It has more relevance than "the browns won all 3 games that i was wearing a blue shirt in" since Harrison does effect the outcome, but not so much that you can glean anything conclusive from your "figures."The reality of the situation is that for managers, Hillis is currently the way to go. It is not because Hillis is better than Harrison, or even more likely to succeed. It is because there is more than 1 side in this equation --it is not a question of who has the more chance of success between these two. The question is, who is the better VALUE for the cost. Harrison is far more expensive than Hillis. In fact, i just picked up Hillis off the free agency list. He was almost free, while Harrison would still cost me a pretty penny to obtain.If i had my choice i would obviously take Harrison for free. But that choice is not available to me. Thus, Hillis is the way to go when taking into consideration COST which is just as important as the other side of the equation, reward.

This has nothing to do with my "investment" in Harrison. Yes, I own him, but no, I don't need to start him. I have 3-4 guys above him on my depth chart. It's just an interesting/perplexing situation to me, and I have no idea what the coaches are thinking. I also own Jamal Charles, but I can see reasons for not starting him/giving him more carries (i.e., most importantly, whatever they are doing now is working, so why change it). This is completely different.And I'm not talking about one player winning or losing the game "by himself." But the reality is that a turnover really can be a way one player can lose the game by himself. And as for Harrison, it's not that he's winning the game by himself -- but that his performance in connection with the play calling seems to lead to success. Give him the ball 20 times, create some holes for him, and play good defense. It's a pretty simply recipe for them.I'm using a sample size of 3-5 games, which is admittedly small, because that's all there is. The coaches have never featured Harrison enough. When they do, they win. End of story. Hillis will never put up the kinds of numbers Harrison put up at the end of last year. Harrison can. If you have to rely on Hillis, you're probably in really serious trouble this season...

haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game. Believe me, i don't have to depend on Hillis, and i don't even think he will succeed. But he was free to me, and so i picked him up in a league of mine off the free agency list. The reality of the situation is that i agree with you --Harrison should be the major ball carrier. Unfortunately, niether you or I are the coach of the cleveland Browns. Some dummy named Mangini is. What either of us think is the best course of action is irrelevant. What is relevant is the decisions of the coach, and Mangini has decided on a 50/50 split. Harrison was a 5th-6th round pick in a 12 team league, while Hillis is FREE in most leagues. There are two sides when making a decision, benefit vs cost (in this case, potential reward vs cost). The cost of Hillis is FREE. This makes him the far better pickup in my view.

 

[blake]

haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game. Believe me, i don't have to depend on Hillis, and i don't even think he will succeed. But he was free to me, and so i picked him up in a league of mine off the free agency list. The reality of the situation is that i agree with you --Harrison should be the major ball carrier. Unfortunately, niether you or I are the coach of the cleveland Browns. Some dummy named Mangini is. What either of us think is the best course of action is irrelevant. What is relevant is the decisions of the coach, and Mangini has decided on a 50/50 split. Harrison was a 5th-6th round pick in a 12 team league, while Hillis is FREE in most leagues. There are two sides when making a decision, benefit vs cost (in this case, potential reward vs cost). The cost of Hillis is FREE. This makes him the far better pickup in my view.

love when guys insult someone passive aggressively on here, and the person responds, then it's a "haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game." in any case. harrison as a 5th or 6th round pick? in a 12 team league?

 

[cvnpoka]

Just a thought, hillis probably catches more balls than Harrison because he's in on passing downs.Why? Because he blocks. Hes better at blitz pick up. Harrison couldn't crack back on a pop warner linebacker.

so why was harrisons only action on passing downs in past years?

 

[flranger]

Just a thought, hillis probably catches more balls than Harrison because he's in on passing downs.Why? Because he blocks. Hes better at blitz pick up. Harrison couldn't crack back on a pop warner linebacker.

so why was harrisons only action on passing downs in past years?

Because Jamal Lewis has stonehands?

 

[shnikies]

Harrison rushes for well over 100 yards this weekend. Book it.

What's well over 100 yards? How about 100? I'll take the under. Tough to get 100 yards on 12 carries even if you're Jerome Harrison, the greatest running back of all time.

 

[Neofight]

haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game. Believe me, i don't have to depend on Hillis, and i don't even think he will succeed. But he was free to me, and so i picked him up in a league of mine off the free agency list. The reality of the situation is that i agree with you --Harrison should be the major ball carrier. Unfortunately, niether you or I are the coach of the cleveland Browns. Some dummy named Mangini is. What either of us think is the best course of action is irrelevant. What is relevant is the decisions of the coach, and Mangini has decided on a 50/50 split. Harrison was a 5th-6th round pick in a 12 team league, while Hillis is FREE in most leagues. There are two sides when making a decision, benefit vs cost (in this case, potential reward vs cost). The cost of Hillis is FREE. This makes him the far better pickup in my view.

love when guys insult someone passive aggressively on here, and the person responds, then it's a "haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game." in any case. harrison as a 5th or 6th round pick? in a 12 team league?

Likely a draft prior to Hardesty going down. He wasn't chosen until the 5th-7th in most of my leagues, due to concerns that Hardesty would be the goal line vulture and Hillis would see some third down and situational carries.

 

[Otis]

Harrison rushes for well over 100 yards this weekend. Book it.

What's well over 100 yards? How about 100? I'll take the under. Tough to get 100 yards on 12 carries even if you're Jerome Harrison, the greatest running back of all time.

See you here after the game then, shark?

 

[blake]

haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game. Believe me, i don't have to depend on Hillis, and i don't even think he will succeed. But he was free to me, and so i picked him up in a league of mine off the free agency list. The reality of the situation is that i agree with you --Harrison should be the major ball carrier. Unfortunately, niether you or I are the coach of the cleveland Browns. Some dummy named Mangini is. What either of us think is the best course of action is irrelevant. What is relevant is the decisions of the coach, and Mangini has decided on a 50/50 split. Harrison was a 5th-6th round pick in a 12 team league, while Hillis is FREE in most leagues. There are two sides when making a decision, benefit vs cost (in this case, potential reward vs cost). The cost of Hillis is FREE. This makes him the far better pickup in my view.

love when guys insult someone passive aggressively on here, and the person responds, then it's a "haha, don't take it personal, this is just a game." in any case. harrison as a 5th or 6th round pick? in a 12 team league?

Likely a draft prior to Hardesty going down. He wasn't chosen until the 5th-7th in most of my leagues, due to concerns that Hardesty would be the goal line vulture and Hillis would see some third down and situational carries.

very good point.

 

[dagwood]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.

Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

 

[blake]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

that's certainly not the conclusion i drew from this thread.

 

[dagwood]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

that's certainly not the conclusion i drew from this thread.

Then you drew the wrong conclusion.

 

[blake]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

that's certainly not the conclusion i drew from this thread.

Then you drew the wrong conclusion.

thanks for speaking for all of FBG.

 

[shnikies]

Harrison rushes for well over 100 yards this weekend. Book it.

What's well over 100 yards? How about 100? I'll take the under. Tough to get 100 yards on 12 carries even if you're Jerome Harrison, the greatest running back of all time.

See you here after the game then, shark?

 

[dagwood]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

that's certainly not the conclusion i drew from this thread.

Then you drew the wrong conclusion.

thanks for speaking for all of FBG.

Not speaking for all FBG's. Just pointing out you are wrong. Clearly you own Harrison and have a pretty biased opinion of the situation. You WANT Harrision to do well. I am looking at it a little more objectively.No biggie. I think you indicated you don't need Harrision to do well; so you should be ok.Not sure where the snippy speak for all FBG's comment comes from but whatever.

 

[the rover]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

drawing any conclusion from 1 week where they split carries evenly is pretty foolish.

 

[dagwood]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

drawing any conclusion from 1 week where they split carries evenly is pretty foolish.

Sharks and Hawks are always drawing conclusions based on the available data.

 

[blake]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

drawing any conclusion from 1 week where they split carries evenly is pretty foolish.

 

[Winky the tunnel ferret]

Ugly, crappy, rbbc.

You swharks can fight over this pile of crusty crap. Us champions are going to mosey over to a real team.

 

[cvnpoka]

i watched both browns games (thanks for the apologies) and i would prefer hillis at this point. it was nice to see harrison get fed the ball. it proly ends up 60/40 harrison with hillis getting the gl stuff on a bad team that wont have much scoring opps. well, i guess both are pretty equal value. decent bye week replacements.

 

[rdstorm]

Ugly, crappy, rbbc. You swharks can fight over this pile of crusty crap. Us champions are going to mosey over to a real team.

Cribbs is the only person on this team I'd consider, but the coaching is so dysfunctional I wouldn't touch him either unless you get points for returns.

 

[gradin123]

Early on in this game Hillis looked like the better back. After his nice second effort on a short TD run though he didn't see the ball again for a quarter and a half.

I think I have figured Mangini out. He will give more touches to whichever back looks worse on a given day.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

Neither are worth a start in week 3 facing the Ravens at home. Cody didn't play against Cincy in Flacco's debacle but, if he's ((Cody) added to the rotation that doesn't spell well against an already stacked Ravens run D.

 

[nxmehta]

Watched the game twice today (ugh, needed a couple beers for the second time) and a couple of things seem clear to me:

1. The offensive line is not run blocking anywhere near the levels of the last 3 game from last year. Tons of missed blocks all over the place (a couple of big ones on Joe Thomas). Vickers had a terrible game as well. Schematically it looked like they had some problems determining assignments. Neither of these backs will be able to do much if this doesn't improve.

2. Hillis is a powerful runner that gives an insane amount of effort (look at his TD run- wow). However, the guy has problems hitting holes straight on as he just rockets into his blockers and bounces off of them. A 100% north south runner. When was the last time we saw this guy turn a corner? This can only work sometimes in the NFL- when the blocking at the first AND second levels is strong.

3. Jerome Harrison is a dead man walking right now. He is not giving full effort, that is crystal clear. The guy had a number of runs he just gave up on. As has been mentioned by another poster, lack of effort and focus is something that has plagued Harrison before. If he doesn't think that he's 'the guy' he will just go through the motions. It looks like that's happening now. His value is zero unless Mangini is able to light a fire under him like he did last year.

I never would have thought this coming into the season but it's a RBBC and Hillis is the guy to own. The first game Harrison takes over will be the signal that Harrison is the one to have.

In the meantime the Browns are going to lose a lot of games...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Hillis looking better atm... We'll see how things shake out. As of now, I'd rather own Hillis.

 

[GregR_2]

Harrison rushes for well over 100 yards this weekend. Book it.

What's well over 100 yards? How about 100? I'll take the under. Tough to get 100 yards on 12 carries even if you're Jerome Harrison, the greatest running back of all time.

See you here after the game then, shark?

 

[Garts]

James Davis the shark move?

 

[Banger]

James Davis the shark move?

avoiding is probably the shark move.

 

[todisco1]

Hillis is the 12th highest scoring RB in my main league. Only two weeks in but he's been consistently solid so far. Harrison is the big play threat and may have the bigger games, but Hillis looks like a more stable bet.

 

[dagwood]

Interesting thread. When you objectively sift through the facts and opinions there is really only one conclusion to draw.Neither RB is a stud but Hillis is the back to own in 2010 if you choose to have one.

drawing any conclusion from 1 week where they split carries evenly is pretty foolish.

Sharks and Hawks are always drawing conclusions based on the available data.

 

[urbanhack]

otis> hey

 

[shnikies]

Harrison rushes for well over 100 yards this weekend. Book it.

What's well over 100 yards? How about 100? I'll take the under. Tough to get 100 yards on 12 carries even if you're Jerome Harrison, the greatest running back of all time.

See you here after the game then, shark?

Otis?

 

[Otis]

otis> hey

Yo hack.Oh, hey guys. Is this a textbook shark bumping going on in here? Guess I won't need to sound the NEW SHTICK SIREN.

Give it time gents. Give it time.

 

[Loan Sharks]

Per the CBS player notes.

Peyton Hillis, RB CLENews: Cleveland coach Eric Mangini said Monday that he was considering taking some carries away from Jerome Harrison and giving them to Peyton Hillis following the first two weeks of action. That is great news for Hillis, who after two games has 76 yards rushing, 50 yards receiving and two touchdowns. Harrison, by contrast, has yet to score and only has a few more yards rushing on more carries. Unfortunately for either running back, Cleveland plays at Baltimore in Week 3. The Ravens have allowed the second-fewest Fantasy points to running backs after two games, giving up just 175 yards on the ground against the Jets and Bengals with no touchdowns.

Looks like Mangini thinks Harrison is getting too much work and gonna move towards more Hillis. I would hate to be a Harrison owner right about now.

 

[cvnpoka]

Per the CBS player notes.

Peyton Hillis, RB CLENews: Cleveland coach Eric Mangini said Monday that he was considering taking some carries away from Jerome Harrison and giving them to Peyton Hillis following the first two weeks of action. That is great news for Hillis, who after two games has 76 yards rushing, 50 yards receiving and two touchdowns. Harrison, by contrast, has yet to score and only has a few more yards rushing on more carries. Unfortunately for either running back, Cleveland plays at Baltimore in Week 3. The Ravens have allowed the second-fewest Fantasy points to running backs after two games, giving up just 175 yards on the ground against the Jets and Bengals with no touchdowns.

Looks like Mangini thinks Harrison is getting too much work and gonna move towards more Hillis. I would hate to be a Harrison owner right about now.

manginis actions are not always inline with his sound bytes. you really dont have to have much of a memory to understand this. a few days prior to week 1 he said harrison was the starter and he "expected him to seize the no1 role" and that "he would get a lot of work." ofc, hillis started that game and they split carries.but ya, id hate to be forced to start harrison any time soon.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

otis> hey

Yo hack.Oh, hey guys. Is this a textbook shark bumping going on in here? Guess I won't need to sound the NEW SHTICK SIREN.

Give it time gents. Give it time.

Very LHUCKSian of you.

 

[Sake-Bombers]

manginis actions are not always inline with his sound bytes. you really dont have to have much of a memory to understand this. a few days prior to week 1 he said harrison was the starter and he "expected him to seize the no1 role" and that "he would get a lot of work." ofc, hillis started that game and they split carries.

but ya, id hate to be forced to start harrison any time soon.

I don't remember that happening at all. Going into this season, Mangini's been pretty consistent in saying that Harrison would not be asked to be the guy all by himself - they had pretty high hopes for Hardesty. When Hardesty went down, pretty much everything that Mangini said indicated that Hillis would have a role.

As someone who overspent on James Davis last year, I've been following the Cleveland RB situation closely last year and this year, and I think Hillis is absolutely the guy to have. Everyone is saying that Harrison just lacks the spark this year, going back to his pre-season fumbles and his lackluster performance the last couple of weeks. Dude is normally pretty jokey with reporters, and wouldn't even talk to them after the game this week. At this point, Harrison can't even fall back on his 286 anymore because he played the Chiefs again and laid an egg.

His situation is actually pretty similar to Jamaal Charles, I think. Both coaches last year had reservations about them (Haley about Charles and Mangini about Harrison), but out of necessity were forced to roll with them in the second half of the year. Turns out that even though both players excelled, the coaches have still had their reservations, and even had some strong actions (Chiefs acquiring T. Jones and Browns drafting Hardesty) that should have been huge red flags about what the coaching staff would like their roles to be this year. Add in the acquisition of Hillis to the Harrison situation, who's a player that has the versatility and "hard-nosed" style that Mangini covets, and that's why I think you're best to steer clear of Harrison unless Mangini gets down to no other options again.

 

[amnesiac]

otis> hey

Yo hack.Oh, hey guys. Is this a textbook shark bumping going on in here? Guess I won't need to sound the NEW SHTICK SIREN.

Give it time gents. Give it time.

give what time?you need to move on.

 

[cvnpoka]

manginis actions are not always inline with his sound bytes. you really dont have to have much of a memory to understand this. a few days prior to week 1 he said harrison was the starter and he "expected him to seize the no1 role" and that "he would get a lot of work." ofc, hillis started that game and they split carries.

but ya, id hate to be forced to start harrison any time soon.

I don't remember that happening at all. Going into this season, Mangini's been pretty consistent in saying that Harrison would not be asked to be the guy all by himself - they had pretty high hopes for Hardesty. When Hardesty went down, pretty much everything that Mangini said indicated that Hillis would have a role.As someone who overspent on James Davis last year, I've been following the Cleveland RB situation closely last year and this year, and I think Hillis is absolutely the guy to have. Everyone is saying that Harrison just lacks the spark this year, going back to his pre-season fumbles and his lackluster performance the last couple of weeks. Dude is normally pretty jokey with reporters, and wouldn't even talk to them after the game this week. At this point, Harrison can't even fall back on his 286 anymore because he played the Chiefs again and laid an egg.

His situation is actually pretty similar to Jamaal Charles, I think. Both coaches last year had reservations about them (Haley about Charles and Mangini about Harrison), but out of necessity were forced to roll with them in the second half of the year. Turns out that even though both players excelled, the coaches have still had their reservations, and even had some strong actions (Chiefs acquiring T. Jones and Browns drafting Hardesty) that should have been huge red flags about what the coaching staff would like their roles to be this year. Add in the acquisition of Hillis to the Harrison situation, who's a player that has the versatility and "hard-nosed" style that Mangini covets, and that's why I think you're best to steer clear of Harrison unless Mangini gets down to no other options again.

from 9/6/10 updatehttp://madnigelish.football.cbssports.com/...yer/news/517401

News: Cleveland RB Jerome Harrison will get the bulk of the carries in Week 1 at Tampa Bay. With Montario Hardesty going down with an ACL injury, Harrison will handle the bulk of the work and coach Eric Mangini says he will have to handle it. "There's no more time to wait," Mangini said Monday. "He's going to get a lot of work."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...4&sport=NFLhttp://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...e_harris_4.html

“I expect him to seize that opportunity like he did last year and run with it.”

 

[GManiac]

Yahoo seems to think

"

New player notes Tue, Sep 21

RB James Davis could get carries this Sunday. Jerome Harrison is not happy, Peyton Hillis not fast. The logical next move is to turn to Davis, who missed his rookie season when he hurt his shoulder in a post-practice session. Davis has ability; problem is the Ravens have stuffed a lot of other backs with more ability.

(Yahoo! Sports) "

I believe I agree with them. Expect to see Davis get some carries. Too bad it is against Baltimore. I think Harrison gets his role back after this week. If Davis does anything productive at all, I might think he gets a 15% or so share of the carries for the rest of the year, with upside.

 

[nxmehta]

You've gotta be Nostradamus (or, Nostradumbass?) to try and predict who's going to be getting the most carries here on out for the Browns. Mangini in his press conferences was clearly pissed off about a lot of things with this team. He's not going to be afraid to make drastic moves, e.g. sitting either RB for extended periods. Both have put the ball on the ground in bigtime situations this year. And I promise you, Mangini is NOT going to telegraph in any way what he's going to do.

So be very very careful trying to predict this situation.

 

[Loan Sharks]

You've gotta be Nostradamus (or, Nostradumbass?) to try and predict who's going to be getting the most carries here on out for the Browns. Mangini in his press conferences was clearly pissed off about a lot of things with this team. He's not going to be afraid to make drastic moves, e.g. sitting either RB for extended periods. Both have put the ball on the ground in bigtime situations this year. And I promise you, Mangini is NOT going to telegraph in any way what he's going to do.So be very very careful trying to predict this situation.

Yes it is very murky indeed you have to be some kind of careful prophet to predict that the guy who is the starter, who busts his butt, who the current regime traded for might be able to hold off a change of pace back who loses focus repeatedly.

 

[Sake-Bombers]

manginis actions are not always inline with his sound bytes. you really dont have to have much of a memory to understand this. a few days prior to week 1 he said harrison was the starter and he "expected him to seize the no1 role" and that "he would get a lot of work." ofc, hillis started that game and they split carries.

but ya, id hate to be forced to start harrison any time soon.

I don't remember that happening at all. Going into this season, Mangini's been pretty consistent in saying that Harrison would not be asked to be the guy all by himself - they had pretty high hopes for Hardesty. When Hardesty went down, pretty much everything that Mangini said indicated that Hillis would have a role.As someone who overspent on James Davis last year, I've been following the Cleveland RB situation closely last year and this year, and I think Hillis is absolutely the guy to have. Everyone is saying that Harrison just lacks the spark this year, going back to his pre-season fumbles and his lackluster performance the last couple of weeks. Dude is normally pretty jokey with reporters, and wouldn't even talk to them after the game this week. At this point, Harrison can't even fall back on his 286 anymore because he played the Chiefs again and laid an egg.

His situation is actually pretty similar to Jamaal Charles, I think. Both coaches last year had reservations about them (Haley about Charles and Mangini about Harrison), but out of necessity were forced to roll with them in the second half of the year. Turns out that even though both players excelled, the coaches have still had their reservations, and even had some strong actions (Chiefs acquiring T. Jones and Browns drafting Hardesty) that should have been huge red flags about what the coaching staff would like their roles to be this year. Add in the acquisition of Hillis to the Harrison situation, who's a player that has the versatility and "hard-nosed" style that Mangini covets, and that's why I think you're best to steer clear of Harrison unless Mangini gets down to no other options again.

from 9/6/10 updatehttp://madnigelish.football.cbssports.com/...yer/news/517401

News: Cleveland RB Jerome Harrison will get the bulk of the carries in Week 1 at Tampa Bay. With Montario Hardesty going down with an ACL injury, Harrison will handle the bulk of the work and coach Eric Mangini says he will have to handle it. "There's no more time to wait," Mangini said Monday. "He's going to get a lot of work."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...4&sport=NFLhttp://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...e_harris_4.html

“I expect him to seize that opportunity like he did last year and run with it.”

Fair enough, but that's not exactly how I interpreted it. But in looking back on it, I see that I got confused with what Mangini was saying, and what Heckert was saying.Mangini's Sept. 6 press conference:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/articl...d7-4b18e0ba8823

(On Jerome Harrison’s preseason and him not hitting the ‘home run’ often enough)- “In terms of home runs, my brother-in-law (Mark Shapiro) told me one time you only have to hit .300 to go to the Hall of Fame, so doubles are good, singles are good, on base percentage, all of that stuff is good. Mark would be proud. There’s no more time to wait. We have a week here to prepare and he is going to get a lot of work on Sunday and the value in negative or positive experiences is how you use them to springboard into your next opportunity. What I am looking for from Jerome is to learn from that, and I ask guys to do this all the time, keep a notebook of what you did and what the results were. Did it go well, did it go poorly and the next time you do it look back and adjust and try to make the next opportunity better based on your last experience. I would expect that from Jerome, and not just Jerome from everybody.”

(On if Harrison took Montario Hardesty’s injury as a challenge to step up and carry the load)- “I never got the sense from Jerome that the things that he was going to do were going to be dependent on somebody else. You don’t ever want that. You don’t want someone saying, ‘Okay because he’s doing X, I’m going to do Y. I’m going to do this because it’s right for me.’ I get that sense form Jerome. He has certain goals, he has certain things that he wants to achieve. I’m talking about growth and development. It wasn’t based on Montario being here, it wasn’t based on anybody being here. It was based on what he wanted to do for him. That’s, I think, a very healthy approach.”

(On if he talked to Harrison about what he expects from him going into the season)- “I haven’t really had that individual sit down this year. Jerome and I talk all of the time, it’s not a function of having one sort of landmark meeting. I like to think in squad meetings and things like that, we get a sense of where we are coming from. I’m always open to talking to any of the guys at any point. He understands the things that he has to do and he understands the great opportunity that he has in front of him. I expect him to seize that opportunity like he did last year and run with it.”

Heckert's Sept. 5 conf call talking about Hardesty injury (among other things):

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/articl...69-37a1159a51c5

(On how comfortable he is with the running back situation with losing Hardesty)- “It’s a blow. We expected him to be here and he is not. I think James Davis played very well in the last game. I think James Davis had a good preseason last year. He was a guy that obviously the Browns liked when they drafted him and he was a guy that we liked in Philadelphia. We think he can be a productive player for us. Right now with (Jerome) Harrison and him, and Peyton Hillis had a good preseason. We think we are comfortable there.”

So, I apologize for misremembering and sorry if I seemed to call you out, but I still stand by my claim that I don't think Mangini was as crystal clear about Harrison being the unquestioned starter who would be fed the ball, and in fact my overall point remains that there have been plenty of actions and quotes all offseason and up to now that they DON'T trust Harrison to be the man.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Harrison did get 16 carries, about double (?) what Hillis got?

That's great to see.

But he got 33 yards. Wow.

And they're pulling him out at the goalline.

And then the forthcoming schedule looks UNgood:

3 09/26/10 1:00pm @BAL - - - - -

4 10/03/10 1:00pm CIN - - - - -

5 10/10/10 1:00pm ATL - - - - -

6 10/17/10 1:00pm @PIT - - - - -

7 10/24/10 1:00pm @NO - - - - -

8 BYE - - - - - -

9 11/07/10 1:00pm NE - - - - -

10 11/14/10 1:00pm NYJ - - - - -

Where's the breakout game in there? It doesn't exist.

 

[shnikies]

From Rotoworld:

Jerome Harrison missed Browns practice Wednesday with a thigh injury.

The extent is unknown, but Harrison won't be a fantasy option against the Ravens in Week 3 anyway. The Browns may have to lean heavily on Peyton Hillis.

Yay! Maybe, we won't have to listen to delusional Harrison owners for a week!?!?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I think Hillis is the guy. He even reminds a bit of Mike Alstott.