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PFT: Bush Had Agreement With New Era? (1 Viewer)

PFT: BUSH HAD AGREEMENT WITH NEW ERA?

In what could be the next big step toward a finding that USC tailback Reggie Bush was ineligible for all or part of the 2005 football season and that USC knew or should have known about Bush's ineligibility, Liz Mullen of the SportsBusiness Journal reports that sworn testimony from two hearings regarding a parole violation indicates that New Era Sports & Entertainment had an agreement of some sort with Bush.

Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake founded New Era in 2005.  Earlier this year, Lake faced the revocation of his parole from federal prison.  At one of the hearings, Lake's lawyer, Marc Carlos, testified that "Mr. Bush — or through his associates — had made some type of agreement with Mr. Lake's group."

Carlos also testified that, after Bush signed with another group, there was a dispute over "representations made by Bush and his family to Mr. Lake's group" and that "they were going to discuss potential litigation — or a settlement involving Mr. Bush's involvement with that agency."

David Caravantes, an NFLPA-certified agent who reportedly was being lined up by New Era to handle the negotiation of Bush's football contract, testified as well.  Caravantes confirmed his arrangement with New Era:  "Lloyd [Lake] and I had got together in October [2005] to start a new sports management company with Sycuan. . . .  Since October, Lloyd was a viable part of the company, helping recruit players, and in the process of merging this New Era Sports with Sycuan.  In the process of this happening, you know, it obviously hurt the company because he had some relationships with certain players who ended up not signing."

Lake gave the following testimony:  "I had a sports agency that we had formed, and we had a guy in, Winston Justice, from USC. . . .  Reggie Bush came into town.  And at that time he was going to go out with us."

The initial significance of this testimony is that it removes any credible doubt that, at some time after Bush's family moved into the house owned Michaels but before the completion of the 2005 football, Michaels was an "agent" within the meaning of the relevant NCAA bylaws.  Thus, if it ultimately is shown that Bush's family paid anything less than fair market rent after Michaels became an "agent," then Reggie was necessarily ineligible under the NCAA rules for each subsequent game.

More importantly, the reference to "potential litigation" suggest that New Era had (or at least thought it had) some type of binding commitment with Bush.  If such an agreement was reached prior to the completion of the 2005 football season, Bush was ineligible regardless of whether his mother and stepfather were paying fair value for the house owned by Michaels.

Also intriguing is Caravantes' reference not to Michael Michaels, but to his tribe -- Sycuan.  The Sycuan tribe previously has denied involvement in Michaels' sports venture.  The testimony from Caravantes potentially muddies the water.

Folks, this thing has gotten a lot uglier over the past 48 hours, and we've got a feeling that it will get uglier long before it gets un-ugly.  As more evidence of the ties between Bush and New Era is revealed, it will be harder and harder for USC to claim that it didn't know -- and shouldn't have known -- that Bush had forfeited his eligibility either by striking a deal with New Era or through the receipt of benefits from New Era by his family.
 
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T Man

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.

That said, I think it is a big deal to USC. While talking heads (i.e., Mike and Mike), downplay this hole thing by saying "who is hurt by it all?" that is not the point.

If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward. IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think). THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play. THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.

As for the parents living in the house, Bush said he didn't live there. THat really doesn't matter. BEnefits to a players family by an agent (or representative of an agent) are also against the rules. Otherwise, the agents would knowingly give the benefits to the player's family. THat's why it was all hush hush.

With that said, I doubt the NCAA does anything. IT will be swept under the rug, regardless.

THE NCAA should take action, however: If his family took benefits from the agent (and it looks like they did, but we don't know all the facts) before his playing career at USC was over; or if he entered into the agreement with the agency before his career was over. Uncfortunately the action would just be against USC. Bush is in the clear.

 

mcjc4

Footballguy
Get to the pros while you can Pete Carroll...
I believe you maybe correct, although his contract at USC is pretty FAT. I Doubt he will need the money enough if they do drag up some dirt from this. I just wonder if they start an investigation, how many other USC players had unknown perks over the last 4 or 5 years. They have had a Hollywood Run out there for awhile.
 

P Boy

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
 

gump

Footballguy
If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward. IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think). THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play. THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.
Alabama was HAMMERED with a loss of 30 scholarships and Lack of Institutional Control.
 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.

That said, I think it is a big deal to USC. While talking heads (i.e., Mike and Mike), downplay this hole thing by saying "who is hurt by it all?" that is not the point.

If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward. IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think). THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play. THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.

As for the parents living in the house, Bush said he didn't live there. THat really doesn't matter. BEnefits to a players family by an agent (or representative of an agent) are also against the rules. Otherwise, the agents would knowingly give the benefits to the player's family. THat's why it was all hush hush.

With that said, I doubt the NCAA does anything. IT will be swept under the rug, regardless.

THE NCAA should take action, however: If his family took benefits from the agent (and it looks like they did, but we don't know all the facts) before his playing career at USC was over; or if he entered into the agreement with the agency before his career was over. Uncfortunately the action would just be against USC. Bush is in the clear.
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
 

P Boy

Footballguy
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Why do you think the moving vans were at the house the next day after the Miami newspaper broke the story if there was no benefit or wrong doing?
 

Londo

Footballguy
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Why do you think the moving vans were at the house the next day after the Miami newspaper broke the story if there was no benefit or wrong doing?
:thumbup: I am sure it was just a coincidence... :unsure:

 

TME

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
How about screwing your team doing what you know is wrong after having been warned that this is inappropriate and improper behavior?That you feel that college players should be paid is a moot point - although it does allow you to rationalize Bush's behavior - because college players don't get paid and there are strict rules regarding compensation to them. There are several good reasons for this that you may not recognize, but again, that doesn't matter.The point is that Bush was complicit in accepting compensation from a promoter when he knew it was wrong. As an NFL GM, that makes him someone I'd be very leery of. Eventually he'll may try to screw me & my team over if this is his mindset - that the rules don't apply to him, that he places his own well being above that of the team and will engage in behavior he knows to be wrong to further his own ends.I'd much rather deal with a college kid busted for pot during his sophomore year than to take a risk on a kid who did what Bush allegedly did, if in fact I knew it to be true.
 

T Man

Footballguy
If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward.  IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think).  THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play.  THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.
Alabama was HAMMERED with a loss of 30 scholarships and Lack of Institutional Control.
NOt for that incident. That was related to the ALbert Means issue.
 

T Man

Footballguy
Bush was simply trying to do better for his family.  What a terrible flaw  :D .  But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school.  Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush.  Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
How about screwing your team doing what you know is wrong after having been warned that this is inappropriate and improper behavior?That you feel that college players should be paid is a moot point - although it does allow you to rationalize Bush's behavior - because college players don't get paid and there are strict rules regarding compensation to them. There are several good reasons for this that you may not recognize, but again, that doesn't matter.

The point is that Bush was complicit in accepting compensation from a promoter when he knew it was wrong. As an NFL GM, that makes him someone I'd be very leery of. Eventually he'll may try to screw me & my team over if this is his mindset - that the rules don't apply to him, that he places his own well being above that of the team and will engage in behavior he knows to be wrong to further his own ends.

I'd much rather deal with a college kid busted for pot during his sophomore year than to take a risk on a kid who did what Bush allegedly did, if in fact I knew it to be true.
My guess is that Bush is not the only one that has done it; and, not the only one the NFL knows about. THese are not the "character issues" that cause a person's draft stock to fall.It could make a difference in what he signs for. Another PFT article suggests that it might actually make Buch more signable before the draft.

Another point. THe article references that Winston Justice also had reached an agreement with New Era.

Two Trojans signed up before the end of their collegiate careers? THis could get interesting? How will this affect Justice?

 
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Evidence that they paid market value??
If they make that claim, then they're gonna have to show not only that they paid market value, but also that they had the monetary means to do so (i.e. that someone else didn't give them the money to make the payments). This thing is not over, by a long shot, which may or may not work out for RB.
 
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
 
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jurb26

Footballguy
This will not impact Bush at all. The only things that my keep Bush from going #1 are contract expectations. This is a USC problem if true. Not a Bush problem.

 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Why do you think the moving vans were at the house the next day after the Miami newspaper broke the story if there was no benefit or wrong doing?
I am trying to figure out how they got a gift if they were leasing a home. The only way it would be a gift if it was below market.They moved out once Bush was not going to go with New Era. However, if they were leasing the house from Michaels at FMV and no other gifts were given there is no violation.

 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
:lmao: I also love how Texas fans are petitioning the Heisman to be sent to Young.

<_<

 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Evidence that they paid market value??
If they make that claim, then they're gonna have to show not only that they paid market value, but also that they had the monetary means to do so (i.e. that someone else didn't give them the money to make the payments). This thing is not over, by a long shot, which may or may not work out for RB.
Bush's parents are far from poor. Why would you assume otherwise? <_<

 
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
:lmao: I also love how Texas fans are petitioning the Heisman to be sent to Young.

<_<
Well, that's the report, right? But remember, internet is anonymous. Anyone could send one of those emails. Also, we don't know how many people have supposedly done this. It could be 15 or 20 for all we know. If a guy gets 15 emails about it and a reporter sticks a mic in his face, he'll probably say something about it, but do you have any idea how many Texas Alumni there are out there?FWIW, the vast majority of folks over on the 'Horns boards with an opinion on this, if it were to even come to pass, which is doubtful, say that they'd like to see Young politely decline the trophy or the trophy not be re-awarded at all. You can count me in this group.

Also, if these allegations prove to have merit, USC could be forced to forfeit every win from 2005. What if this had come out when SC was, say 12-0 and headed to the Rose Bowl?

Do you really believe that, if Reggie and his family did this, they weren't endangering the SC season?

 
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What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Evidence that they paid market value??
If they make that claim, then they're gonna have to show not only that they paid market value, but also that they had the monetary means to do so (i.e. that someone else didn't give them the money to make the payments). This thing is not over, by a long shot, which may or may not work out for RB.
Bush's parents are far from poor. Why would you assume otherwise? <_<
Why do you assume that I assume otherwise? I didn't say they were poor. However, they aren't exactly rich, either, by all accounts. Dad's a security guard and mom works in a prison, IIRC. In the San Diego area, that doesn't usually get you that house, that big, with that view. But hey, who knows. I'm not trying to convict anyone here. They'll have their chance to clear this up, and we'll see what comes of it. I'm just saying it's not gonna be as simple as saying "here are the cancelled checks", if they can even do that.
 
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CalBear

Footballguy
I think the NCAA generally avoids coming down hard on its major programs, especially if they're headed by someone who is viewed by the NCAA brass as a good-ol-boy. (Contrasted with NCAA treatment of Cal over Todd Bozeman, who took over for a good-ol-boy and was harassed from the moment he took the job).

If improprieties are found with USC, my prediction is they get a slap on the wrist, probation, loss of a small number of scholarships, no post-season ban.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
I think the NCAA generally avoids coming down hard on its major programs, especially if they're headed by someone who is viewed by the NCAA brass as a good-ol-boy. (Contrasted with NCAA treatment of Cal over Todd Bozeman, who took over for a good-ol-boy and was harassed from the moment he took the job).

If improprieties are found with USC, my prediction is they get a slap on the wrist, probation, loss of a small number of scholarships, no post-season ban.
The NCAA was more than happy to come down hard on Miami.
 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
I think the NCAA generally avoids coming down hard on its major programs, especially if they're headed by someone who is viewed by the NCAA brass as a good-ol-boy. (Contrasted with NCAA treatment of Cal over Todd Bozeman, who took over for a good-ol-boy and was harassed from the moment he took the job).

If improprieties are found with USC, my prediction is they get a slap on the wrist, probation, loss of a small number of scholarships, no post-season ban.
:ptts:
 

Bevo

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.

That said, I think it is a big deal to USC. While talking heads (i.e., Mike and Mike), downplay this hole thing by saying "who is hurt by it all?" that is not the point.

If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward. IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think). THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play. THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.

As for the parents living in the house, Bush said he didn't live there. THat really doesn't matter. BEnefits to a players family by an agent (or representative of an agent) are also against the rules. Otherwise, the agents would knowingly give the benefits to the player's family. THat's why it was all hush hush.

With that said, I doubt the NCAA does anything. IT will be swept under the rug, regardless.

THE NCAA should take action, however: If his family took benefits from the agent (and it looks like they did, but we don't know all the facts) before his playing career at USC was over; or if he entered into the agreement with the agency before his career was over. Uncfortunately the action would just be against USC. Bush is in the clear.
What benefits did the family get if they paid market value on their lease regardless of who they leased it from?
Has there been any indication as to what they were paying yet and how it fell in regards to similar leases for other houses in the area? I haven't seen anything that says one way or the other, maybe I just missed it.
 

Bevo

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
:lmao: I also love how Texas fans are petitioning the Heisman to be sent to Young.

<_<
Not this Texas fans. I would hope that VY would tell them (politely of course ;) ) to take their trophy and shove it.
 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
:lmao: I also love how Texas fans are petitioning the Heisman to be sent to Young.

<_<
Not this Texas fans. I would hope that VY would tell them (politely of course ;) ) to take their trophy and shove it.
:lmao: :thumbup:
 
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.  If the Texans want him and are willing to pay, he is #1.
That may or may not be true. Last I heard, based upon last year's #1 pick Alex Smith getting a $25M signing bonus, Bush is asking for in the neighborhood of $30M in signing bonus.You don't pay that kind of money to a rookie with some obvious issues in character. Look how far Randy Moss fell despite his incredible talent simply because of character issues. I would guess it's going to cost Bush a significant amount of money if true - and it sure looks like the evidence is falling on that side - and quite possibly the #1 slot.
It's an interesting question. I do not know that this type of issue is the type of "character issue" that would case an NFL franchsie headaches. Most "character issues" revolve around problems with the law, drug use, work etihic attitude, etc (like what's hurting White and Williams). Bush was simply trying to do better for his family. What a terrible flaw :D . But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school. Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush. Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
If I'm a GM, I'm thinking the fact that a guy would put his team's entire season, and possibly future ones in jeopardy this way is a serious concern, to say the least.
:lmao: I also love how Texas fans are petitioning the Heisman to be sent to Young.

<_<
Not this Texas fans. I would hope that VY would tell them (politely of course ;) ) to take their trophy and shove it.
Bevo, as I stated earlier, wouldn't you say that this is the prevailing sentiment over on Hornfans?
 

T Man

Footballguy
I think the NCAA generally avoids coming down hard on its major programs, especially if they're headed by someone who is viewed by the NCAA brass as a good-ol-boy.  (Contrasted with NCAA treatment of Cal over Todd Bozeman, who took over for a good-ol-boy and was harassed from the moment he took the job).

If improprieties are found with USC, my prediction is they get a slap on the wrist, probation, loss of a small number of scholarships, no post-season ban.
The NCAA was more than happy to come down hard on Miami.
If you are talking about the infractions in the early 90's, Miami got off pretty lightly. THeir players were all getting free money from Pell Grants when they didn't qualify. THat is paying players. Pretty blatant. Almost SMU-esque.I agree that USC will not be hit hard. Maybe a warning, some restrictions, but no loss of scholarships and no disqualification of Bush. TO do so would hurt USC, the PAC 10 and the NCAA - because of the horrid publicity that would come with forfeiture of the Heisman (IF Bush was ineligible, he cannot win the HEisman).

 

JAA

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status.
It should, especially if true. If true, Reggie cheated the system. Plain and simple, just as bad as Adrian McPhearson.
 

JAA

Footballguy
Bush was simply trying to do better for his family.  What a terrible flaw  :D .  But, seriously, these college players (i.e. minor league pro's) should be getting paid a pretty penny for the millions in revenue they generate annually for the school.  Personally, this type of issue would not play a significant factor in me selecting Bush.  Other type of character issues would, but not this type.
How about screwing your team doing what you know is wrong after having been warned that this is inappropriate and improper behavior?That you feel that college players should be paid is a moot point - although it does allow you to rationalize Bush's behavior - because college players don't get paid and there are strict rules regarding compensation to them. There are several good reasons for this that you may not recognize, but again, that doesn't matter.

The point is that Bush was complicit in accepting compensation from a promoter when he knew it was wrong. As an NFL GM, that makes him someone I'd be very leery of. Eventually he'll may try to screw me & my team over if this is his mindset - that the rules don't apply to him, that he places his own well being above that of the team and will engage in behavior he knows to be wrong to further his own ends.

I'd much rather deal with a college kid busted for pot during his sophomore year than to take a risk on a kid who did what Bush allegedly did, if in fact I knew it to be true.
Un####ingbelievableI agree with Pony Boy

:goodposting:

 

JAA

Footballguy
Something I found interesting from the PTI interview, which may or may not be significant (you be the judge), was that Reggie Bush specifically said his parent were leasing (not renting) the house. Who really uses the word leasing when talking about paying money for a place that you do not own. You dont, you say rent.

What if they try to say BS like they were paying a little amount of the mortgage with an option to buy with a huge dollar amount in 20 years (which would obviously not happen)?

Im ready for the media and agent :bs: storm!

 

T Man

Footballguy
This has no effect on Reggie Bush's draft status. 
It should, especially if true. If true, Reggie cheated the system. Plain and simple, just as bad as Adrian McPhearson.
Should and will are two different things. It should adversely affect Bush, but it won't.Look at all the college players who cheat the system. The punishment goes to the school; and they get off scott free.

Remember Hart Lee Dykes (WR - New England). IIRC he brought down several schools (OK. ST., Tex. A&M, etc.) for recruiting violations. He took money from the schools. He plays all four years at OK. ST. and loses no eligibility. He gets drafted by the Patriots. He lost nothing. The scholls lost a ton.

Of course in those cases, the school or its boosters cheated. But Dykes came off free. The same for Bush. (Not so clear for USC - although since Justice was said to have gotten benefits as well, it seems someone at USC should have known).

SHOULD it be the case that Bush is unaffected? NO. WILL it be the case? YES

 

P Boy

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor. Why would you assume otherwise? <_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
 
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
OK, I earlier said Mom worked at a prison. Maybe she's a teacher. Dad works as a security guard. If mom is a teacher and dad is a SG, then thir total income probably compares to mine and my wife's. I'm a firefighter and she's a teacher with an annuity on the side. For us, I belive that house would be a very difficult stretch...maybe if we sold both the cars and one of the boys...But who knows.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
Corrections officer sounds familiar also. I would imagine even 2 corrections officers wouldn't make enough to afford the lease on a $757,000 house.In any case, the family moved in almost immediately after Michael Michaels (New Era) bought the house, and were moved out literally within 24 hours after Liz Mullen interviewed the family at the residence regarding the connections between Bush & New Era.

 
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Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
Corrections officer sounds familiar also. I would imagine even 2 corrections officers wouldn't make enough to afford the lease on a $757,000 house.In any case, the family moved in almost immediately after Michael Michaels (New Era) bought the house, and were moved out literally within 24 hours after Liz Mullen interviewed the family at the residence regarding the connections between Bush & New Era.
I realize this isn't exactly "damning" evidence, but does anyone else think it's weird for the Griffins to engrave their name in the concrete of the driveway during the construction of someone else's house, before they lease it? Sounds a little to me like they knew the house was being built for them.
 

P Boy

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
Corrections officer sounds familiar also. I would imagine even 2 corrections officers wouldn't make enough to afford the lease on a $757,000 house.In any case, the family moved in almost immediately after Michael Michaels (New Era) bought the house, and were moved out literally within 24 hours after Liz Mullen interviewed the family at the residence regarding the connections between Bush & New Era.
I realize this isn't exactly "damning" evidence, but does anyone else think it's weird for the Griffins to engrave their name in the concrete of the driveway during the construction of someone else's house, before they lease it? Sounds a little to me like they knew the house was being built for them.
I saw that & thought the exact same thing.
 

T Man

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
Corrections officer sounds familiar also. I would imagine even 2 corrections officers wouldn't make enough to afford the lease on a $757,000 house.In any case, the family moved in almost immediately after Michael Michaels (New Era) bought the house, and were moved out literally within 24 hours after Liz Mullen interviewed the family at the residence regarding the connections between Bush & New Era.
I realize this isn't exactly "damning" evidence, but does anyone else think it's weird for the Griffins to engrave their name in the concrete of the driveway during the construction of someone else's house, before they lease it? Sounds a little to me like they knew the house was being built for them.
I saw that & thought the exact same thing.
The mortgage on a house like this is something in the neighborhood of $5,000+ per month, so I would expect the "rent" to be a bit more than that per month (i.e., $6000). And that does not include the cost of the utilities. Granted I don't live in SoCal, but that seems like a lott of cash for a teacher and a corrections officer. If not, i gotta move out to SoCal and become a corrections officer.And, they have their name written in cement during construction.

IT clearly appears that they were getting a benefit as part of a deal with New Era.

The question is when was this deal struck? During the season? After the season, but before the Rose Bowl? or after the Rose Bowl?

If its after everything, no effect. If its after the season, but before the Rose Bowl, minimal effect on USC? If its during the season, could be problems for USC and maybe even Bush's Heisman.

 

gump

Footballguy
If Bush entered into an agreement with a sports agency or entity that was connected to a sports agent, he was ineligible starting from that time forward.   IIRC in 1992 Alabama had a cornerback who signed with an agent on a napkin in a New Orleans bar at 3 in the morning (Langhan, I think).  THey notified the SEC, told them they thought it was void since Langan was a minor, and let him play.  THe result was a loss of 10 scholarships and forfeiture of all of the games in which he played after that date.
Alabama was HAMMERED with a loss of 30 scholarships and Lack of Institutional Control.
NOt for that incident. That was related to the ALbert Means issue.
They were hammered for both. The Langham issue resulted in the '93 season being wiped out, a bowl ban, and significant scholarship reductions (actually 21, later reduced to 15 on appeal).

This was the harshest penalty ever handed down by the NCAA for a 1st time offender.

LINK!

"They (Alabama fans) want to know how Antonio Langham signing a cocktail napkin somehow results in 11 forfeited games, while Reggie Bush’s parents getting use of a house turns out to be no big deal."

If the NCAA was not political, they would hammer USC. But they are, and won't.

 

JAA

Footballguy
Bush's parents are far from poor.  Why would you assume otherwise?

<_<
Really? From what I heard, they hardly had the financial wherewithall to afford the lease on a $750,000 house. I believe his Mom is a teacher, and I'm not sure what his Dad does, but the implication I heard on a DEN sports radio talk show Monday said that the house should have been well out of the range of their combined income.Do you know differently?
According to "The Herd" his parents are corrections officers or something along those lines. The base pay wouldn't afford the cost of this home but they can rack up alot of OT apparently.
Corrections officer sounds familiar also. I would imagine even 2 corrections officers wouldn't make enough to afford the lease on a $757,000 house.In any case, the family moved in almost immediately after Michael Michaels (New Era) bought the house, and were moved out literally within 24 hours after Liz Mullen interviewed the family at the residence regarding the connections between Bush & New Era.
I realize this isn't exactly "damning" evidence, but does anyone else think it's weird for the Griffins to engrave their name in the concrete of the driveway during the construction of someone else's house, before they lease it? Sounds a little to me like they knew the house was being built for them.
I forgot about that tidbit. :goodposting:
 

CalBear

Footballguy
The mortgage on a house like this is something in the neighborhood of $5,000+ per month, so I would expect the "rent" to be a bit more than that per month (i.e., $6000). And that does not include the cost of the utilities. Granted I don't live in SoCal, but that seems like a lott of cash for a teacher and a corrections officer. If not, i gotta move out to SoCal and become a corrections officer.
In most places in CA right now, rents are significantly lower than mortgage payments, as low as 50% of the mortgage in some cases.
 
The mortgage on a house like this is something in the neighborhood of $5,000+ per month, so I would expect the "rent" to be a bit more than that per month (i.e., $6000).  And that does not include the cost of the utilities.  Granted I don't live in SoCal, but that seems like a lott of cash for a teacher and a corrections officer.  If not, i gotta move out to SoCal and become a corrections officer.
In most places in CA right now, rents are significantly lower than mortgage payments, as low as 50% of the mortgage in some cases.
Wow...with property values so high there, and rising, that's very surprising.
 

GregR_2

Footballguy
...

The point is that Bush was complicit in accepting compensation from a promoter when he knew it was wrong. As an NFL GM, that makes him someone I'd be very leery of. Eventually he'll may try to screw me & my team over if this is his mindset - that the rules don't apply to him, that he places his own well being above that of the team and will engage in behavior he knows to be wrong to further his own ends.

I'd much rather deal with a college kid busted for pot during his sophomore year than to take a risk on a kid who did what Bush allegedly did, if in fact I knew it to be true.
As an NFL GM, I'd think that probably made him fit in with at least 50% of the other players already on my NFL team. Only difference would be, he got caught.Or is it just cynicism on my part to believe that a lot of the starters at major programs have received something from a booster that if known would in fact violate NCAA rules? Maybe not something major like a car or house, but a "job" where they don't earn their wages, or $50 in an envelope after a good game?

I'm not condoning those actions by Bush or others when I say that. Just saying I can't imagine such actions being viewed as unusual by an NFL GM. The only change would be the fact he was caught, and the resulting PR implications and possible distraction to my team.

 

CalBear

Footballguy
In most places in CA right now, rents are significantly lower than mortgage payments, as low as 50% of the mortgage in some cases.
Wow...with property values so high there, and rising, that's very surprising.
Many speculate that low interest rates and alternate financing options have artificially raised property values, and that prices will subsequently fall in an interest rate squeeze.
 
In most places in CA right now, rents are significantly lower than mortgage payments, as low as 50% of the mortgage in some cases.
Wow...with property values so high there, and rising, that's very surprising.
Many speculate that low interest rates and alternate financing options have artificially raised property values, and that prices will subsequently fall in an interest rate squeeze.
:mellow: OK. If you say so. I have no idea what you just said.

 

vinwinephans

Footballguy
In most places in CA right now, rents are significantly lower than mortgage payments, as low as 50% of the mortgage in some cases.
Wow...with property values so high there, and rising, that's very surprising.
Many speculate that low interest rates and alternate financing options have artificially raised property values, and that prices will subsequently fall in an interest rate squeeze.
I understand that sentiment, but I do not see how that plays a role in how houses, single family homes are rented for 50% of a mortgage payment. On the East Coast, from what I have gleaned from others in the biz, most people who buy a house as an investment, mortgage the thing for 15 years and rent it out to cover that payment.

Now depending on when the property was purchased and what that purchased price was, that could impact the mortgage payment and ultimately what is needed in return for rent...

But a brand new house, built and then rented/leased - that's got to be a decent monthly payment for the person renting when compared to other similiar properties in the market place.

 

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