Philly IDPs.. Cole w/ the 1st and Consdinine puts on some weight (1 Viewer)

[KellysHeroes]

(KFFL) John Nalbone, of The Trenton Times, reports Philadelphia Eagles DE Trent Cole lined up with DE Jevon Kearse on the first-team defense Saturday, May 12. DEs Darren Howard and Juqua Thomas lined up with the second-team defense.

No surprise here; I think everyone knew Cole was going in as a starter after last yr.

Eagles SS Sean Considine put on roughly 18 pounds this offseason.

There have been concerns about how well the smallish Considine will hold up over the course of a 16-game season as a full-time starter. The added bulk should help him to improve in run support.

Whats the feeling on this guy, I know FBG doesn't have him rank to high.. but he taking over a decent IDP spot and did pretty good last yr after Lewis was Benched.

I took a late 31st rd flier on him in a recent draft; hes my DB #4; actually hes gona to be my DBBC w/ Mi Lewis for my #3

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I have him very low (ok, extremely low) because I think he won't be the starter come this fall.

However, all I see is Quintin Mikell as the guy who could take over, and that doesn't give me a vote of confidence either.

I think I have no choice but to boost his fantasy numbers. Bear in mind, his fantasy numbers doesn't mean he's good - the guy is the weakest link in the Philly secondary by far - and he was getting bowled over by RBs all December and January.

When I read up on him in January / February, he made a point to mention that he lost weight and needed to add some for 2007.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Bear in mind, his fantasy numbers doesn't mean he's good - the guy is the weakest link in the Philly secondary by far -

Isn't that sometimes a good thing in the FF world. Being a weak link means teams attack you more; that is until your such a weakness that the coachin staff doesn't want to play u anymore.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I have him very low (ok, extremely low) because I think he won't be the starter come this fall.However, all I see is Quintin Mikell as the guy who could take over, and that doesn't give me a vote of confidence either.I think I have no choice but to boost his fantasy numbers. Bear in mind, his fantasy numbers doesn't mean he's good - the guy is the weakest link in the Philly secondary by far - and he was getting bowled over by RBs all December and January.When I read up on him in January / February, he made a point to mention that he lost weight and needed to add some for 2007.

To me this is the detriment of IDP fantasy football.DE, LB, DT - all are contributors because of what they do (although you could make an argument that occupying the O-linemen by some defenders also contributes) - tackles, sacks, etc. DBs that get beat on have padded stats, while the Champ Baileys of the world don't hold much value. That's a shame.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I have him very low (ok, extremely low) because I think he won't be the starter come this fall.

However, all I see is Quintin Mikell as the guy who could take over, and that doesn't give me a vote of confidence either.

I think I have no choice but to boost his fantasy numbers. Bear in mind, his fantasy numbers doesn't mean he's good - the guy is the weakest link in the Philly secondary by far - and he was getting bowled over by RBs all December and January.

When I read up on him in January / February, he made a point to mention that he lost weight and needed to add some for 2007.

To me this is the detriment of IDP fantasy football.DE, LB, DT - all are contributors because of what they do (although you could make an argument that occupying the O-linemen by some defenders also contributes) - tackles, sacks, etc. DBs that get beat on have padded stats, while the Champ Baileys of the world don't hold much value. That's a shame.

Troy Aikman never had a 3500yd passing season. He only had one 20 TD season. Emmitt Smith drained all the value inside the red zone. To the detriment of offensive players in fantasy football?Tiki Barber 36% of the Giants' rushing touchdowns in 2006 despite carrying 78% of the rushing load. To the detriment of offensive players in fantasy football?

Lorenzo Neal was on 0.01% of ESPN fantasy team's rosters in 2006. To the detriment of offensive players in fantasy football.

Hines Ward gets no extra value for the blocks he makes downfield that allow his RBs to gain extra yards. To the detriment of offensive players in fantasy football?

Mike Furrey was a top 20 WR in many fantasy leagues in 2006 almost entirely because of the offensive system in which he played. To the detriment of offensive players in fantasy football?

Plenty of reasons to question the offensive side of fantasy football, too.

To me, the MLB who racks up tackles because his team is on the field all day or the CB who gets targeted more often because he plays opposite a better player is no different than a guy like Frank Gore losing goal-line carries and potential FF value to Michael Robinson or Ben Roethlisberger not being worthy of a fantasy lineup slot his first two seasons because his team ran the ball 60% of the time compared to a league average 45%.

I'll not argue that there are issues with using IDPs. Stat crews are inconsistent making a assisted tackle or pass defended variable depending on the home stadium. Stats that could improve IDP scoring (run stuffs behind the LOS, quarterback pressures, missed tackles, etc) aren't charted or reported.

The following isn't directed specifically at JP, who is a friend to all things IDP. The man rather convincingly won our IDP league last year after all.

But to argue that situations disproportionately benefit IDPs to the extent that they take away from the integrity (which I know Jeff isn't necessarily doing but many have) of the IDP concept is flawed.

I think I'm finally going to put together an IDP Mythbusters article together for this summer. Every year, we hear common arguments against IDP leagues -- IDPs are too unpredictable, IDPs vary too much from year to year, good defensive players suck in IDP leagues while bad defensive players thrive, etc.

Every one of those arguments is flawed.

IMO, the only reason not to play in an IDP league is because you're not interested in taking the time needed to formulate a reasonable scoring system or learning basic defensive concepts or adding more players to the list of those you need to track. And that's cool with the diehard IDP guy. Just don't say it's because IDP leagues aren't fun because you don't want to take the time to learn defensive players as well as you think you know offensive players.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The following isn't directed specifically at JP, who is a friend to all things IDP. The man rather convincingly won our IDP league last year after all.

But to argue that situations disproportionately benefit IDPs to the extent that they take away from the integrity (which I know Jeff isn't necessarily doing but many have) of the IDP concept is flawed.

I think I'm finally going to put together an IDP Mythbusters article together for this summer. Every year, we hear common arguments against IDP leagues -- IDPs are too unpredictable, IDPs vary too much from year to year, good defensive players suck in IDP leagues while bad defensive players thrive, etc.

Every one of those arguments is flawed.

IMO, the only reason not to play in an IDP league is because you're not interested in taking the time needed to formulate a reasonable scoring system or learning basic defensive concepts or adding more players to the list of those you need to track. And that's cool with the diehard IDP guy. Just don't say it's because IDP leagues aren't fun because you don't want to take the time to learn defensive players as well as you think you know offensive players.

Not surprised I struck a nerve with that comment, but I agree that Jene should write the MythBusters article.I'm also wondering how we get his initials away from one of our owners....

The point I was making that sometimes the numbers lie. It happens.

Normally a player's NFL value equates, roughly, to their fantasy value.

Examples exist of the contradiction - the goal line thief (see Bettis, Jerome, when he had 3 TDs and like 5 yards once). The meaningless catch (or INT) at the end of a half on a Hail Mary attempt. The last play of the game in a 10 point contest. Sure.

What I am illustrating here is that a bad DB is often worth more than a good one in IDP scoring. That's flawed, IMHO. Just because the offense won't throw at you and give you some kind of stat, you aren't as good? If Dre Bly or Champ Bailey go down and Brett Favre throws and Dominique Foxworth all day, giving him PDs and tackles all game, does that mean Foxworth is better than Bly or Bailey? Of course not. Even worse, it can happen all game and/or all season, whereas most offensive issues happen in situations or in "garbage time".

All I'm saying is that this is the biggest transgression of NFL worth == fantasy worth in fantasy football. I'll listen if you have a bigger one, but this is the biggest one I can find.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I knew you'd love the IDP league comment. The credit is deserved.

Anyway, here's a list of the top 25 CBs in a twelve team start 2 CB league I played in last season.

1. 37. Barber, Ronde TBB CB 298.30

2. 41. Bailey, Champ DEN CB 291.00

3. 66. Winfield, Antoine MIN CB 269.70

4. 68. Williams, Darrent DEN CB 267.10

5. 79. Tillman, Charles CHI CB 258.00

6. 87. Woodson, Charles GBP CB 252.30

7. 95. Samuel, Asante NEP CB 249.00

8. 109. Henry, Anthony DAL CB 241.00

9. 112. Jones, Pacman TEN CB 240.60

10. 113. Marshall, Richard CAR CB ® 240.00

11. 114. Clements, Nate BUF CB 238.80

12. 126. Rogers, Carlos WAS CB 232.00

13. 133. Harris, Walt SFO CB 229.00

14. 134. Rolle, Antrel ARI CB 229.00

15. 145. Jammer, Quentin SDC CB 225.00

16. 150. Mathis, Rashean JAC CB 220.00

17. 152. Robinson, Dunta HOU CB 219.90

18. 169. Asomugha, Nnamdi OAK CB 212.40

19. 180. McAlister, Chris BAL CB 207.00

20. 186. Holly, Daven CLE CB 204.70

21. 193. McGee, Terrence BUF CB 201.80

22. 195. Bly, Dre' DET CB 201.00

23. 198. Herndon, Kelly SEA CB 199.10

24. 203. Law, Ty KCC CB 196.00

25. 207. Hall, Deangelo ATL CB 194.70

Note that seven corners finished in the top 100 overall players. They represent a who's-who of overall corner talent and big play potential from the 2006 season.

I bolded who I would consider to be a clearly questionable NFL CB. I'm probably being a little harsh on Anthony Henry, but his value clearly stems from Terence Newman's talent rather than his own. And I'd argue that Newman is the only player not on this list that is an obvious miss. Leigh Bodden would have been a top ten player had he been healthy all season long.

Could one argue that Bly or Asomugha should have higher value? Probably. But neither are stud all-around corners. Still in the right scoring and lineup system, they have clear starting value.

I won't argue that there are inequalities of fantasy and NFL worth in the IDP world. I won't argue that the corner position is the toughest to correctly value in IDP leagues. I will argue that the right scoring system and lineup setup can minimize them significantly.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'll end the hijack here...

but I wanted to just note the point.

I'll be interested to see how Champ and Dre finish this year. That should be quite interesting.

I'm guessing that Denver will be facing a lot of 3- and 4-wide looks and offenses attacking the middle of the field. Look for TEs to do well against the Broncos and their nickel and dime DBs to see a lot of playing time.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Now back on topic.

Sean Considine isn't very good - at least the 2006 version wasn't.

Will the extra weight help? I'm not sure. I do know that he'll be challenged both by the opposition and by Jim Johnson to improve. Just keep an eye on Mikell this pre-season.

 

[KellysHeroes]

The fact thats a player is the weak-link on a defense is something every IDP manager needs to take into account when making a draft list.

Consdinine may be a good example of this; if he gets the start he will be targeted on certain plays by the offense... giving him extra oppurnities than if he wasn't the weakest link. His draft stock should reflect his IDP value, not NFL value.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The fact thats a player is the weak-link on a defense is something every IDP manager needs to take into account when making a draft list. Consdinine may be a good example of this; if he gets the start he will be targeted on certain plays by the offense... giving him extra oppurnities than if he wasn't the weakest link. His draft stock should reflect his IDP value, not NFL value.

This is true, but it is also true that he's a likely candidate to be replaced.

 

[Zoomanji]

(KFFL) John Nalbone, of The Trenton Times, reports Philadelphia Eagles DE Trent Cole lined up with DE Jevon Kearse on the first-team defense Saturday, May 12. DEs Darren Howard and Juqua Thomas lined up with the second-team defense.No surprise here; I think everyone knew Cole was going in as a starter after last yr.

Kind of a suprise here IMO. I still think Howard is a better option as the starter or at least the DE on early/run downs. Cole has not held up well against the run. The original plan last year was to start Kearse and Howard, bring in Cole at DE on passing downs and move Howard inside. Granted Howard did not play well last year but a lot of that is attrubited to his injuries. I still think this is how the plan will shake out for this year. Cole is not effective vs the run and Howard will be better. The DE they drafted out of ND could be a wild-card at DE on run downs IMO.

Eagles SS Sean Considine put on roughly 18 pounds this offseason.There have been concerns about how well the smallish Considine will hold up over the course of a 16-game season as a full-time starter. The added bulk should help him to improve in run support.Whats the feeling on this guy, I know FBG doesn't have him rank to high.. but he taking over a decent IDP spot and did pretty good last yr after Lewis was Benched. I took a late 31st rd flier on him in a recent draft; hes my DB #4; actually hes gona to be my DBBC w/ Mi Lewis for my #3

Considine is another guy who's play was effected by injury last year with a bad shoulder. The extra bulk should help him from getting run over and the shoulder was his biggest problem in wrapping up rushers and not getting them on the ground. Johnson likes the guy and I believe he is planning on plugging him in with B-Dawk. Mikell is not an option as a starter at Safety. I'm expecting Gaddis to eventually fill in for either of the starters in a year or 2.

 

[Zoomanji]

Keep in mind that this is from PFT and they don't say their source. But we may be jumping the gun on Coles as a 1st teamer

In Sunday's first practice, DE Trent Cole practiced with the first team; Darren Howard was scheduled to do so in the afternoon practice. . . . Defensive coordinator Jim Johnson said that guys will be moving up and down on the defensive depth chart. . . . DE Victor Abiamiri is being eyeballed for the left side. . . . The Eagles wanted to get bigger at strongside linebacker. . . . The starting job on the strong side if Chris Gocong's to lose. . . . DE Jevon Kearse participated in the morning practice on Sunday; he needs to gain some weight. . . . DT Brodrick Bunkley is improving. .

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Mike Green, IMO, was one of the worst defensive backs in the league but he put up huge fantasy numbers while starting at SS for the Bears a few years ago. Some dynasty owners mistakenly looked at his numbers and thought he was an elite talent...they wound up getting burned when he was moved to free safety and eventually benched. Sometimes, these marginal players can put up great numbers and take advantage of their situation over a short period of time, but they usually don't hold onto their starting jobs very long.

Considine may not seem like a great long-term option, but he's young and still has the potential to improve on his play from a year ago. He must not have been too awful if he forced Michael Lewis to the bench. Regardless, he doesn't appear to have much competition on the roster right now and the Eagles safeties have a pretty strong history of producing. I like the chances of the Eagles staff coaching him up to be a pretty solid player.