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Philosophical Thought - Avoiding Players For Non Football Reasons? (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This might not be a good idea. But thought I'd bring it up here.

First thing to be super clear on: For our Footballguys business, we project stats and predict performance based on the player's availability to be on the field as determined by the league. Full stop.

In other words, my personal non football feelings toward a player do not matter. Whether I think they're a terrible person, or whether they went to an awful school like texas university ;) , I have to stay 100% objective. Because my customers don't necessarily share my personal opinions. Let's be clear about that.

But I'm also extremely clear on the idea that one of the best things about Fantasy Football is you get to decide what you're comfortable with when you're building your team. You are the GM. You make the calls. So if you want to not draft Deshaun Watson under any circumstance, you get to do you.

And I think it's something maybe worth talking about. For instance, I don't know the details but some of this came up with talk about Kavontae Turpin and trouble he'd been in at TCU.

How do you folks handle this?

And please, keep this civil. We can disagree without being mean or judgemental.
 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I don’t factor it in. I will take Tyreek or Hunt if they are at the right spot. No NFL player will ever know about my fantasy team or will feel any consequences from whether they rostered or not in random home leagues. Though I think setting that hard line and explaining it may cause other people think more deeply about an issue. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Deamon

Footballguy
I don't factor it in much at all in big money leagues.

However, if 2 players are fully tied for me, I'll definitely take the one that I have more fun rooting for.

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.
 

Judge Smails

Footballguy
I try to keep it football related. If the off the field issues might impact their performance on the field or present additional risk I'll factor that in. Antonio Brown is the poster child for that but there are others. Exception would be guys like Ray Rice. That being said I've had Kareem Hunt on my teams of late so I don't throw a moral blanket over picks 100% of the time. Kamara is likely a no draft for me but to be fair if I was higher on him at ADP I wouldn't be so absolute. I'd be as concerned as much about guys like Kyler Murray not putting work in the film room. Deshaun? I'd draft. He was way out of line and he's got a problem for sure. I just place a higher bar on violence. Not a great answer I know.
 

Judge Smails

Footballguy
I don't factor it in much at all in big money leagues.

However, if 2 players are fully tied for me, I'll definitely take the one that I have more fun rooting for.

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.
Why the Herbert hate?
 

Deamon

Footballguy
I don't factor it in much at all in big money leagues.

However, if 2 players are fully tied for me, I'll definitely take the one that I have more fun rooting for.

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.
Why the Herbert hate?

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.

Can you elaborate?

I've never met another person in my life who even disliked Justin Herbert. Much less "hate more than anyone in the world."
It's more personal hate besides any legal or criminal actions he's taken part in.

Mainly goes to the fact that I'm a Beavers fan and hate the Ducks and had to watch him carve us up for years. He also comes across as really arrogant and cocky. Have a few friends who knew him back in high school and he was always the 'silver spoon, cocky frat boy' type back then.

I just hate him lol
 

Deamon

Footballguy
Now I wouldn't move him down my board at all because of it. And if he's sitting there at my pick and he's the next on my board and I see great value there, I'm pulling the trigger. But I'd prefer to not have him on my team and prefer to not be watching a game and cheering when he scores a TD.
 

efactor

Footballguy
In high stakes (main event or FBG leagues), I keep it football related. Draft the best player available

However, in my local league and on-line dynasty and keepers leagues, I won't draft Seahawks because I just can't root for them to do well in any circumstances :shades:
 

menobrown

Footballguy
From a moral perspective I don't factor in off the field conduct one iota for my fantasy football teams.

When my daughter was growing up she used to always ask me if someone was good or evil and I'd always tell her I don't really believe in that concept. The capacity for good and evil exists in everyone and I do not believe anyone is entirely good or bad. The way a persons brain functions, environment, circumstances will often lead people perceived as good to do horrible things and vice versa. For sure some people are way on one side of the ledger but I believe the amount of horrible people in the world devoid of any redeemable quality at all is next to none. Though I would stress to please not confuse this with me saying some people have not done things that require them to no longer be apart of society or to continue being counted among the living. Meanwhile as an example you can find entire threads and discussions discussing what a terrible person Mother Theresa was.

IMO without getting to know people we as a society to often take 1-2 good or bad examples and craft entire narratives about what kind of person it is and I've never been comfortable doing that.

Now, in the context of of a players conduct or behavior being an enhanced risk of suspension is for sure a factor but not over some moral highground.
 

Deamon

Footballguy
Great topic though @Joe Bryant , I've always wondered what people think on this. I have a lot of friends who are a bit more casual players who refuse to draft players on rival teams. I have no issue drafting Cowboys, and it actually is nice because if they suck you're happy, if they do well you're happy.

I think you'll find more people (and already have in this thread) avoiding players based on them playing for their rival NFL team than based on their legal issues. Which is interesting.
 

travdogg

Footballguy
There are certainly guys I'd prefer not to draft, but I've never outright avoided anybody that could help my team. Ultimately, what good/purpose does it serve? You take a moral stance that means nothing, since its not like said player is going to suffer or care if you don't draft them (my fantasy team isn't paying/employing them) and just put yourself at a disadvantage, since unless somehow your whole league agrees to ban a player, that player is just making someone else better.

That way of doing things has probably had an unintended effect for me, as I tend to end up with a higher percentage of "troubled" players, because others have these moral quandaries. I wouldn't say I'm targeting these guys (far from it) but I'm neither a judge nor a jury. If someone is playing, and they help my team, I'll take them.
 

Team Chaos

Footballguy
I can’t say that I really have a set rule on this, but in general, I try to avoid having guys on my team that I have a hard time rooting for. That applies whether they are on a rival team, or if they have done things that make me dislike them.

Menobrown has a good point, in that we generally don’t know enough about the person or their circumstances to judge, however being human we generally do.

As Joe points out, we do this for fun, and we get to choose. It’s more fun if I am rooting for guys I like. Of course, winning is also fun. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
I won’t draft some players. Over the years I’ve been pretty consistent about it.

A couple of minor exceptions. I drafted a Tyreek Hill because I was ignorant of allegations.

This year I drafted Kamara in one league - I don’t have all the details, and while it sounds like an ugly situation, athletes getting drunk and into fights with randos isn’t as bad (in my mind) as say, 60+ allegations of sexual assault.

Everyone has their preference - I like drafting players I like. I try not to draft players I find repugnant.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. :shrug:
 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I try to keep it football related. If the off the field issues might impact their performance on the field or present additional risk I'll factor that in. Antonio Brown is the poster child for that but there are others. Exception would be guys like Ray Rice. That being said I've had Kareem Hunt on my teams of late so I don't throw a moral blanket over picks 100% of the time. Kamara is likely a no draft for me but to be fair if I was higher on him at ADP I wouldn't be so absolute. I'd be as concerned as much about guys like Kyler Murray not putting work in the film room. Deshaun? I'd draft. He was way out of line and he's got a problem for sure. I just place a higher bar on violence. Not a great answer I know.
Interesting, thought on Kamara. Are you just that worried about suspension? Because I am seeing Kamara often going around 16-20 and all I see is dollar signs. Remove the vague worry of suspension and I see him as a top 5 fantasy pick.
 

Pigskin Fanatic

Footballguy

Mainly goes to the fact that I'm a Beavers fan and hate the Ducks and had to watch him carve us up for years. He also comes across as really arrogant and cocky. Have a few friends who knew him back in high school and he was always the 'silver spoon, cocky frat boy' type back then.

This is probably even a bigger deal for those of you who went to a SEC school, any SEC school, and i'm totally guilty of it too being a UCLA alum. I generally avoid former USC and Oregon players and that's just how it is. Heck I still root against Pete Carroll for all the crap he did at USC. It's silly I know, but when you root against someone for years, it's hard to prioritize them in the pros. as far as off field transgressions once in the pro's, I generally ignore it for ff purposes and will draft anyone solely based on football skills and opportunities.
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
I try to keep it football related. If the off the field issues might impact their performance on the field or present additional risk I'll factor that in. Antonio Brown is the poster child for that but there are others. Exception would be guys like Ray Rice. That being said I've had Kareem Hunt on my teams of late so I don't throw a moral blanket over picks 100% of the time. Kamara is likely a no draft for me but to be fair if I was higher on him at ADP I wouldn't be so absolute. I'd be as concerned as much about guys like Kyler Murray not putting work in the film room. Deshaun? I'd draft. He was way out of line and he's got a problem for sure. I just place a higher bar on violence. Not a great answer I know.
Interesting, thought on Kamara. Are you just that worried about suspension? Because I am seeing Kamara often going around 16-20 and all I see is dollar signs. Remove the vague worry of suspension and I see him as a top 5 fantasy pick.
Same. I took him with confidence at 2.06, paired with Chase as my 1-2 punch. Felt like a great start. Since the legal process isn’t expected to even start until October, and league discipline won’t happen until after all that is resolved, it seems like a great gamble.
 

ratbast

Footballguy
This was a big issue in our league with Adrian Peterson. He was dropped for ethics then picked up and was a firestorm in our league because of league scoring integrity. Many were angry with original owner. But that was post draft and full of unknowns.
 

TheWinz

Footballguy
There is only 1 guy in my fantasy career that I avoided - Michael Vick. If I typed that I would pop a bottle of champagne if I saw him getting ripped apart by a pack of wolves, I may get a timeout, so I won't.
 

Deamon

Footballguy
There is only 1 guy in my fantasy career that I avoided - Michael Vick. If I typed that I would pop a bottle of champagne if I saw him getting ripped apart by a pack of wolves, I may get a timeout, so I won't.
I think it's hard to point at one player over another. Who is worse (and I'm not suggesting either side or disagreeing with you), someone who beats their wife, someone who hurt innocent animals, someone who sexually assaults a woman, etc?
We all have our moral compass, but I feel like if you avoid a player for one issue you really disagree with, shouldn't you avoid others who you really disagree with too?
 

Deamon

Footballguy
I try to keep it football related. If the off the field issues might impact their performance on the field or present additional risk I'll factor that in. Antonio Brown is the poster child for that but there are others. Exception would be guys like Ray Rice. That being said I've had Kareem Hunt on my teams of late so I don't throw a moral blanket over picks 100% of the time. Kamara is likely a no draft for me but to be fair if I was higher on him at ADP I wouldn't be so absolute. I'd be as concerned as much about guys like Kyler Murray not putting work in the film room. Deshaun? I'd draft. He was way out of line and he's got a problem for sure. I just place a higher bar on violence. Not a great answer I know.
Interesting, thought on Kamara. Are you just that worried about suspension? Because I am seeing Kamara often going around 16-20 and all I see is dollar signs. Remove the vague worry of suspension and I see him as a top 5 fantasy pick.
Same. I took him with confidence at 2.06, paired with Chase as my 1-2 punch. Felt like a great start. Since the legal process isn’t expected to even start until October, and league discipline won’t happen until after all that is resolved, it seems like a great gamble.
While I agree, I think this thread is more about if you would avoid a player for doing something you morally disagree with, not about if the league will discipline them/if you think he's good value.
 

TheWinz

Footballguy
There is only 1 guy in my fantasy career that I avoided - Michael Vick. If I typed that I would pop a bottle of champagne if I saw him getting ripped apart by a pack of wolves, I may get a timeout, so I won't.
I think it's hard to point at one player over another. Who is worse (and I'm not suggesting either side or disagreeing with you), someone who beats their wife, someone who hurt innocent animals, someone who sexually assaults a woman, etc?
We all have our moral compass, but I feel like if you avoid a player for one issue you really disagree with, shouldn't you avoid others who you really disagree with too?
All-in-all, I really don't care what team they are on, or what they have done. I just remember what I was thinking when Vick came back, and it was not nice.
 

Ruffrodys05

IBL Representative
I have a friend that once told me he would never draft or trade for Edjerrin James because he had gold teeth. Apparently having gold teeth meant that James was a dirty rotten street punk and most likely had ties to gangs. Whatever, James helped me win a couple of titles, at the least.

Me, personally, I suffer from an aversion to draft Cowboys players. It's not a 100% lock that I avoid them as I've rostered a few here and there over the many years I've played. But, I will thoroughly look for other options prior to putting one on my roster. I picked up the Cowboys defense off waivers mid-season last year with the thought that I'd cut them the following week. I was streaming D at the time. Lo and behold I ended up keeping them for the rest of the season. Finished as the #1 defense and definitely help me win a couple of games.

Morality doesn't really factor into my decision making process of rostering a player. Availability to put up weekly points for my squad does. If I choose to cut or trade a player that is suspended, the suspension and lack of availability is why. Not whatever that player did to get suspended. If I can work around a suspension and retain the player, I will, especially if that player happens to be a regular weekly starter for me.
 

Birdie048

Footballguy
The application of a Moral Compass in a hobby is a complicated issue. The acceptance of a player who is a "poor example" of human behavior does not require me to accept those same values.
Personally, I traded away DeShaun Watson due to his behavior. But then again, I did not like him since he was a Clemson player.....
 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
While I agree, I think this thread is more about if you would avoid a player for doing something you morally disagree with, not about if the league will discipline them/if you think he's good value.
For sure, just got sidetracked a bit with Kamara there. My bad.
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
While I agree, I think this thread is more about if you would avoid a player for doing something you morally disagree with, not about if the league will discipline them/if you think he's good value.
Most definitely. In my original response I addressed my thoughts on Alvin Kamara and what he did. While hitting somebody while they were down is reprehensible, I kind of categorize it into the “bar brawl“ type of situation… To me, it’s not as troubling as some other offenses like sexual assault. At least until additional information comes out… At which point I may decide differently.
 

habsfan

Footballguy
To use Kamara as an example of my philosophy, if I thought his character was going to affect his "on the job" performance or he was going to get in further / new trouble (outside of the potential suspension that is), I would avoid him. I don't think that though.I expect that once he's back in "work mode" he will stay out of trouble and do his job. That I wouldn't want to have beers with the guy would not enter into it.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
Players who are and have been in serious trouble (Watson) find their way off my teams. I avoid NYG and Dallas players in general and tend to have at least one Eagle (even if it's my final depth player) on my teams. That said, nothing is written in stone. If a Giant can help me win, so be it, and Cooper has been on several of my teams.
 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
There is only 1 guy in my fantasy career that I avoided - Michael Vick. If I typed that I would pop a bottle of champagne if I saw him getting ripped apart by a pack of wolves, I may get a timeout, so I won't.
I live in the Philly area and have a big dog loving family - my dad's got five rescues, my brother, mother, and I all have two - so family get togethers are basically dog park parties; I was told that under no circumstances was I allowed to have an eagle on my teams until Vick was off the team ("put down" was the exact phrase) . So there's that.
Personally I don't stay away from players because of them being terrible people. Even Vick had, in my mind, served his time and deserved his second chance. I do however factor that into where I feel comfortable drafting a player and can tell you that I don't know if I'll ever be comfortable with drafting Watson as locked in qb1 - fool me once shame on you, fool me 20+ times and I don't think you're going to stop because you got a fine and some spotlight.
 

Galileo

Footballguy
I just hate him lol
Wow. "Hate" is such a strong term, brother, especially for someone you don't really know. Ain't no time for hate...

With regard to the thread topic, I really just try to focus on the on field contribution. Does the player make sense for fantasy football purposes. I'm not drafting Deshaun Watson because he is no help missing 11 games and I can't justify a roster spot for that. I will draft an Alvin Kamara in the right situation because I do think he will contribute on the field and can be an integral part of my roster build.

Now if I was an actual "real life" team owner (I'm not, so hard to put myself in those shoes) or any business owner for that matter, I wouldn't be looking to hire employees of questionable character. I am not hiring a Deshaun Watson. The exception to this would be hiring someone who has already paid their debt to society for their wrongdoings and is trying to get onto a good path in life.
 

bro1ncos

IBL Representative
Zero affect for me. We all have skeletons in our closet. Theirs are just way more public. I have friends that have done things I don't agree with, but they treat me and my family with respect.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I can't remember a specific time I've blackballed a guy, but I will say there were definitely some guys I was glad not to have on my roster.

Gotta say, though, that I don't think anyone should be judged for inconsistent standards with stuff like this. You want to draft Tyreek and Mixon but draw the line at DeShaun? Vice versa because the first two hit women whereas Watson just showed them his junk? All fine as far as I'm concerned. This isn't a court of law, and you don't owe anyone consistency or due process. And you know the old saw about how no one cares who's on your fantasy team? Well, I guarantee you absolutely no one cares about your moral stands when it comes to your fantasy team.

If having a guy on your roster icks you out, you feel how you feel. Don't draft him.
 

-OZ-

Footballguy
I don't factor it in much at all in big money leagues.

However, if 2 players are fully tied for me, I'll definitely take the one that I have more fun rooting for.

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.
Why the Herbert hate?

And in smaller money leagues, I might avoid a guy like Herbert who I hate more than anyone in the world.

Can you elaborate?

I've never met another person in my life who even disliked Justin Herbert. Much less "hate more than anyone in the world."
It's more personal hate besides any legal or criminal actions he's taken part in.

Mainly goes to the fact that I'm a Beavers fan and hate the Ducks and had to watch him carve us up for years. He also comes across as really arrogant and cocky. Have a few friends who knew him back in high school and he was always the 'silver spoon, cocky frat boy' type back then.

I just hate him lol
He’s a QB in the NFL. I expect him to be cocky.
 

SeniorVBDStudent

Footballguy
Basic stuff here, but I only avoid players with off the field issues if I believe those are indicators of on the field underperformance.

I think Zeke Elliot is an entitled little ##### and his performance (not just in the injury year) align with this take. Unless his Oline is perfect, this guy underperforms.

A more extreme example is Antonio Brown, who actually had to have off the field crazy accumulate to a level where it started to out influence his on field talent. I was slow to move off him, but after a certain amount of time he bacame a lost cause.
 

sushinsky4tsar

Footballguy
It's fantasy football. I worry about points. They're awarded the same way without respect to personal character.

If there's a knucklehead factor that's going to get a player suspended, in the doghouse, or whatever else, I bake that risk in to my evaluation. But it's fantasy, bringing Antonio Brown in isn't going to affect the culture of my fantasy locker room. I'm pretty sure these players aren't getting together on Wednesday nights to talk about how the fantasy year is going.
 

mphtrilogy

Footballguy
For me I treat fantasy football as a fun hobby, and try to draft players I like to root for, sometimes a guy slips through the cracks as it's tough to draft a team of choir boys, but I have always enjoyed my teams better when I have guys I actually like on them....
 

Judge Smails

Footballguy
I try to keep it football related. If the off the field issues might impact their performance on the field or present additional risk I'll factor that in. Antonio Brown is the poster child for that but there are others. Exception would be guys like Ray Rice. That being said I've had Kareem Hunt on my teams of late so I don't throw a moral blanket over picks 100% of the time. Kamara is likely a no draft for me but to be fair if I was higher on him at ADP I wouldn't be so absolute. I'd be as concerned as much about guys like Kyler Murray not putting work in the film room. Deshaun? I'd draft. He was way out of line and he's got a problem for sure. I just place a higher bar on violence. Not a great answer I know.
Interesting, thought on Kamara. Are you just that worried about suspension? Because I am seeing Kamara often going around 16-20 and all I see is dollar signs. Remove the vague worry of suspension and I see him as a top 5 fantasy pick.
I’m standard, no PPR. I don’t like Jameis with checkdowns anyway. Just think his name affects ADP and not worth what he used to be. I don’t think he’ll be suspended this year.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
To each their own.

IMHO it's not just about magic football and it has nothing to do with impacting the player in question. If you're willing to overlook your personal/moral standards in this aspect of your life, what other aspects of your life, or under what circumstances are you willing to overlook them? At what point do we realize that we never held these moral standards to begin with and were simply virtue signaling?
 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I’m standard, no PPR. I don’t like Jameis with checkdowns anyway. Just think his name affects ADP and not worth what he used to be. I don’t think he’ll be suspended this year.
Cool, I won't clog this thread with Kamara talk but I might revisit how well Kamara did with Winston last year in standard.
 

Spankugood

Footballguy
I haven't had a raider on my roster since 2001, and I still feel dirty about that one.

fantasy football is more fun when you are rooting for players you like. If you are ok with feeling dirty cheering for someone you don't like, go for it.
If ya had their back a few years ago a monkey would have won their pool with a halfway decent qb and wr.
 

wlwiles

Footballguy
I could see myself avoiding certain players if I was a casual fantasy player with only 1-2 teams, but once you're in several teams and doing 5-6 or more drafts every year it's hard to hamstring yourself and avoid someone outright across multiple leagues. And then where do you draw the line? I'm ok with Watson, but not Hunt? I'm ok with Hunt but not Tyreek? I'll take anybody if their price is right...
 

Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
I'd have almost no music to listen to if I went by morality. I'm bad enough a FF without adding another factor. Plus, I haven't been an angel in my life.
 

Jayded

Footballguy
I draft with a tiny cringe if something really would upset me, but generally draft value first. If I’m really bothered, I can usually trade for some sort of equal value. As a Notre Dame fan, I usually avoid intentionally drafting USC or Michigan players but I value winning enough not to be dumb. I can always trade them.

One other said this, but bigger concern is repeat offense with risk already there. I don’t care that Gordon likes weed, but would be concerned about him getting suspended again. Watson scares me most about his perceived lack of contrition and possibility that he might act a fool again.
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
I draft with a tiny cringe if something really would upset me, but generally draft value first. If I’m really bothered, I can usually trade for some sort of equal value. As a Notre Dame fan, I usually avoid intentionally drafting USC or Michigan players but I value winning enough not to be dumb. I can always trade them.

One other said this, but bigger concern is repeat offense with risk already there. I don’t care that Gordon likes weed, but would be concerned about him getting suspended again. Watson scares me most about his perceived lack of contrition and possibility that he might act a fool again.
Haha, Mich players have burned me also. It makes it worse as a ND fan. Peoples-Jones got me good 2x last year.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
There is always an equivalent player available as an alternative to the PoS you are considering drafting.
 

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