Player Position Issue (1 Viewer)

[Rovers]

There have been several times that this issue has come up in this forum, particularly at the DE/LB position. In my well run IDP dynasty leagues, we use the NFL.com depth chart as the final authority so as to avoid disputes, and although it may not always be fair, it works. I bring this up in this forum because it has been discussed before.

In one league, which I am a co-owner in, my partner offered a trade for Adalius Thomas to the league commish (first year dynasty league). I didn't even realize that Thomas was listed as a DE on his roster. The league site (CBS) and every other place NFL.com, the Ravens site depth chart, etc list him as a LB. He IS an LB. But, this commishioner says that if he trades him, his positional listing will change to LB! He apparently has no intention of changing the listing while Thomas is on HIS roster. There is nothing in the rules about this.

Was Thomas EVER listed as a DE since late August anywhere? The only place where DE shows up at all that I can find is at the Ravens site, under the roster (but NOT the depth chart) where he is listed as a LB/DE, LB listed first. Opinions? The draft at CBS shows him being drafted as a DL, but I'm not even sure that hasn't been fooled with. The draft was in late August. Does anyone happen to know when Thomas' positional listing changed at CBS? And does this seem kosher? TIA....

 

[Kinger]

I don't see how he can do that. If he was drafted as a DE then whenever CBS changed it, the roster should have reflected that. I think they have a software glitch.

 

[boubucarow]

I didn't even realize that Thomas was listed as a DE on his roster. The league site (CBS) and every other place NFL.com, the Ravens site depth chart, etc list him as a LB. He IS an LB. But, this commishioner says that if he trades him, his positional listing will change to LB!

I would be if I was you.

 

[Rovers]

Yep, that's how I feel about it... and am hoping for more responses here before I send him the link!

 

[Pipes]

He may have been a defensive lineman a couple of years ago but he's been a LB the last 2 years.

 

[Dave Baker]

Seems simple to me. The position for Thomas needs to be clarified. Now. Doesn't matter if the trade is complete or not. Then clarify the rules about a site for official position requirements.

Whatever the commish did in recent games with Thomas is not relevant as it wasn't covered in the rules.

 

[spec1alk]

Bryan Thomas is listed as a DE on MFL.

Changing thomas from a DL to a LB essentially makes him a #4-5 LB starter instead of a #1-2 DL starter. It vastly diminishes his value.

I think the course of action here is to call for a league vote on how to handle this situation. It should be added to your leagues rules and it should cover how positions are determined (team website depth chart/roster/nfl.com/etc). I would make sure the league is aware of what he told you "If I trade Bryan Thomas, then I will change his position from DL to LB".

 

[Rozelle]

The Commish has put himself in a position in which his integrety may come into questiom ... HUGE mistake.

While there are players in this grey area, Thomas is one of the most defined, he is a LB. My league uses NFL Gamebook, GB has listed him as a LB every game including preseason, not only this year, but the last 3 at least. I have never been involved with CBS leagues of any sort, so I can't be of any help. Good Luck

 

[boubucarow]

Whether certain players are a DE or a LB is a small problem in many leagues. But if the commissioner actually is using Thomas as a DE and said that he must be a LB if he traded him, he shouldn't be the commissioner or in the league, period.

 

[ziachild07]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. I would definitely ask why there are no rules in place to deal with this issue and why it is just now being brought up.

 

[Rovers]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. I would definitely ask why there are no rules in place to deal with this issue and why it is just now being brought up.

The commish says that his listing at CBS was changed between the opening day game on Thursday of this year, and that next Saturday. He says he sent owners an email during this short window, and made a ruling that an individual owner owner could decide which listing they prefered, and what the league would then use. Neither I or my partner remember such an email, but I wouldn't swear it didn't go out either. I have since changed my ISP, so I don't have a history to look at, even if that email wasn't automatically deleted. As far as why his listing would change if traded appears to be an arbitrary ruling, as far as I can tell. I feel, rather strongly, that if he did make some ruling back then, he should have added it to the league rules, especially since he is charging the league a $90 "commishioner's fee". That makes him a paid commish..... and this sort of sloppiness is even more unacceptable, given he's playing for free ($75 dues) and covering additional expenses with the extra 15 bucks. He and I have often disagreed in this short time on many issues, and I wanted some independent opinions on how this league was being run. He also ruled a flex line up change because CBS' software wouldn't flag illegal line ups given his original pre-draft line up rules. We drafted based on those line up rules.... then he changed them. Do I sound disgruntled? I am.

 

[Otter]

Here's the deal with CBS, and it just happened this past week:

Shaun Phillips was listed as a DL at the beginning of the year. Just last week, CBS changed his status (correctly) to a LB. Prior to CBS making the change, Phillips can only be played as a DL. Once the change was made by CBS... If Phillips was on a roster, his bio correctly listed him as a LB, however, because he was originally selected as a DL, he was still 'technically' a DL.

Here's the fix... Have the commissioner drop him then add him to the same roster. The info will be updated and he'll be listed correctly as a LB. I would imagine that if he is traded, it'll update as well. I had to do that this week. Earlier in the year, CBS had M. Colston listed as a TE. Once they updated their info and listed him as a WR, then we had to drop him then add him to reflect the correct position.

Hope this helps.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Do I sound disgruntled? I am.

If you're looking for more responses all I can say is I am with you all the way on each point, except one of your very first ones. This is not a well run league and the commish seems to lack a spirit of fairness to a rather disturbingn degree.

 

[cracKer]

Bryan Thomas is listed as a DE on MFL.

Changing thomas from a DL to a LB essentially makes him a #4-5 LB starter instead of a #1-2 DL starter. It vastly diminishes his value.

I think the course of action here is to call for a league vote on how to handle this situation. It should be added to your leagues rules and it should cover how positions are determined (team website depth chart/roster/nfl.com/etc). I would make sure the league is aware of what he told you "If I trade Bryan Thomas, then I will change his position from DL to LB".

In regards to Bryan Thomas, the Jets have been listed in a 4-3 to open every game this year (in which he is a DE). As Rovers has mentioned, they switch up formations quite a bit throughout the game

 

[Rovers]

Bryan Thomas is listed as a DE on MFL.

Changing thomas from a DL to a LB essentially makes him a #4-5 LB starter instead of a #1-2 DL starter. It vastly diminishes his value.

I think the course of action here is to call for a league vote on how to handle this situation. It should be added to your leagues rules and it should cover how positions are determined (team website depth chart/roster/nfl.com/etc). I would make sure the league is aware of what he told you "If I trade Bryan Thomas, then I will change his position from DL to LB".

In regards to Bryan Thomas, the Jets have been listed in a 4-3 to open every game this year (in which he is a DE). As Rovers has mentioned, they switch up formations quite a bit throughout the game

Cracker.... I'm a B Thpomas owner. Why? ONLY because I gambled he'd be listed as a DE. Did the same thing with G Ellis on Dallas. He just got relisted at NFL.com as a LB, and I had no complaints. Thomas IS an OLB, and I don't care WHAT the game book says. The guy is an OLB. A Thomas has been an LB for 2 years! What bugged me out was that as long as A Thomas was on the commish's roster, he is a DE, even tho there is NO basis for that..... but if he trades him, he's an LB. Thomas is a top ten LB.... and he's NO DE.

Ah well, I'm outta this league after this year anyway.... 90 bucks to suffer being a commish? A commish that doesnt get it done? Free money, and a ticket to make up rules as ya go to yer advantage.

 

[slickwillie]

first off, any league that lists adalius thomas as a def end, when it is able to be corrected is either being run for shiaaat, or crooked. second, the whole "he is a lb on my roster but a de on anyone elses" is about as ridiculus as it comes. at the absolute weakest compromise he should make, you would get a league vote on it, but imo, the way this sounds from your post you are gonna get the skinflute on this one.

the following is for your commish when you forward this thread to him.......

yo, cornhole, get yer head out and stop smoking whatever that is and run a fair league. you cant possibly be stupid enough to think that your ruling is right, so make all nice, and logical and do the right thing.

 

[Keg]

There have been several times that this issue has come up in this forum, particularly at the DE/LB position. In my well run IDP dynasty leagues, we use the NFL.com depth chart as the final authority so as to avoid disputes, and although it may not always be fair, it works. I bring this up in this forum because it has been discussed before.

In one league, which I am a co-owner in, my partner offered a trade for Adalius Thomas to the league commish (first year dynasty league). I didn't even realize that Thomas was listed as a DE on his roster. The league site (CBS) and every other place NFL.com, the Ravens site depth chart, etc list him as a LB. He IS an LB. But, this commishioner says that if he trades him, his positional listing will change to LB! He apparently has no intention of changing the listing while Thomas is on HIS roster. There is nothing in the rules about this.

Was Thomas EVER listed as a DE since late August anywhere? The only place where DE shows up at all that I can find is at the Ravens site, under the roster (but NOT the depth chart) where he is listed as a LB/DE, LB listed first. Opinions? The draft at CBS shows him being drafted as a DL, but I'm not even sure that hasn't been fooled with. The draft was in late August. Does anyone happen to know when Thomas' positional listing changed at CBS? And does this seem kosher? TIA....

commish sounds like a real winner when did you open up talks with the twit? was it prior to the week games? did he change his designation? if you dont deal for him this week dont press the issue and see if he changes his designation and when he doesnt let the league know and vote to kick his sorry ### out as commish

 

[stevegamer]

The Commish has put himself in a position in which his integrety may come into questiom ... HUGE mistake. While there are players in this grey area, Thomas is one of the most defined, he is a LB. My league uses NFL Gamebook, GB has listed him as a LB every game including preseason, not only this year, but the last 3 at least. I have never been involved with CBS leagues of any sort, so I can't be of any help. Good Luck

I wouldn't question the commish's integrity here. Why?To question it, would mean that you expect to find some or at least have questions about it's existence. I think that would be a complete waste of time - the guy has no integrity and I don't need to ask any questions to figure that out.

 

[onionsack]

first off, any league that lists adalius thomas as a def end, when it is able to be corrected is either being run for shiaaat, or crooked. second, the whole "he is a lb on my roster but a de on anyone elses" is about as ridiculus as it comes. at the absolute weakest compromise he should make, you would get a league vote on it, but imo, the way this sounds from your post you are gonna get the skinflute on this one.

the following is for your commish when you forward this thread to him.......

yo, cornhole, get yer head out and stop smoking whatever that is and run a fair league. you cant possibly be stupid enough to think that your ruling is right, so make all nice, and logical and do the right thing.

We ALL think this way, Mr. Crooked Comish. Is your good name really less important than this rather trivial issue in the grand scheme of things? If it is, A) shame on you! and B) prepare to see more owners jumping ship en masse.

As to the status of guys like Bryan Thomas, this is one of the things that one really wishes wouldn't require so much comish finessing. The folks at MFL and other reputable sites should know the status of these players (particularly when informed of errors, as I and others have done, repeatedly). If Thomas is a DE, then why not Demarcus Ware? Why not Merriman? There's just no logic to it, and it should be sorted out at their end IMHO.

 

[Rozelle]

The Commish has put himself in a position in which his integrety may come into questiom ... HUGE mistake. While there are players in this grey area, Thomas is one of the most defined, he is a LB. My league uses NFL Gamebook, GB has listed him as a LB every game including preseason, not only this year, but the last 3 at least. I have never been involved with CBS leagues of any sort, so I can't be of any help. Good Luck

I wouldn't question the commish's integrity here. Why?To question it, would mean that you expect to find some or at least have questions about it's existence. I think that would be a complete waste of time - the guy has no integrity and I don't need to ask any questions to figure that out.

I've always felt you should reserve judgement until you see how issue is resolved.

 

[stevegamer]

I've always felt you should reserve judgement until you see how issue is resolved.

Perhaps you are right, but based on the commish's initial stance it's significantly about help for himself, and not about what's fair.He's a paid commish who changes rules on the fly and does other things that are questionable at best.

 

[Rovers]

Epilogue:

This commish decided that he should be able to keep A Thomas as a DE, and accused me of calling him a cheat. Half the league is in his F baseball league, and his entourage all sided with him. I responed by saying we had had a previous discussion on AIM bfore the draft, when he told me we areat the mercy of player positional listing changes. He refuses to even acknowledge. His ruling stood. A Thomas, because he was drafted by his incorrect CBS listing as a DE would remain listed as a DE.

Then, it got fun. See, we drafted Micheal Robinson, SF, RB as a WR. We put him on the DTS, but I was thinking about activaing him and starting him as a WR. We were already starting both LT and Turner.... so Mr Commish must have looked at our roster. Mr Commish must have gotten worried. What would happen if Gore got injured? We'de be able to play 4 RB's, because M Robinson was drafted as a WR.

Suddenly, he admits the error of his ways.... says A Thomas is now an LB, and btw, he changed Robinson from a WR to an RB. Didn't bother to mention this little tidbit until my pard questioned him on it. "Oh, yeah, you guys were right." A complete 180. Why? Because MRob was incorrectly listed.

Don't EVER join ANY league unless you KNOW the credibilty of the people in the league. If I had known up front that this tool was charging a $90 "commishioner's fee', I NEVER would have gotten involved. My pard paid the dues.... i had no clue, and agreed to pard up later on.

The funniest thing in all of this... I actually think that this guy believes he's on the up and up. I can't wait till the season is over.... he's going to get this link, and i will enjoy telling him all about what he is.

 

[Badm]

Epilogue:This commish decided that he should be able to keep A Thomas as a DE, and accused me of calling him a cheat. Half the league is in his F baseball league, and his entourage all sided with him. I responed by saying we had had a previous discussion on AIM bfore the draft, when he told me we areat the mercy of player positional listing changes. He refuses to even acknowledge. His ruling stood. A Thomas, because he was drafted by his incorrect CBS listing as a DE would remain listed as a DE. Then, it got fun. See, we drafted Micheal Robinson, SF, RB as a WR. We put him on the DTS, but I was thinking about activaing him and starting him as a WR. We were already starting both LT and Turner.... so Mr Commish must have looked at our roster. Mr Commish must have gotten worried. What would happen if Gore got injured? We'de be able to play 4 RB's, because M Robinson was drafted as a WR. Suddenly, he admits the error of his ways.... says A Thomas is now an LB, and btw, he changed Robinson from a WR to an RB. Didn't bother to mention this little tidbit until my pard questioned him on it. "Oh, yeah, you guys were right." A complete 180. Why? Because MRob was incorrectly listed. Don't EVER join ANY league unless you KNOW the credibilty of the people in the league. If I had known up front that this tool was charging a $90 "commishioner's fee', I NEVER would have gotten involved. My pard paid the dues.... i had no clue, and agreed to pard up later on. The funniest thing in all of this... I actually think that this guy believes he's on the up and up. I can't wait till the season is over.... he's going to get this link, and i will enjoy telling him all about what he is.

Funny, this just came up in my league. Owner of Greg Ellis complained that he is now listed as lb in mfl. I am the commissioner in the league. I have put it out for discussion and vote amongst the other owners in the league, but to be perfectly honest, I do not want to have to deal with it. If MFL uses official team depth chart, like they say they do, then thats good enough for me. I don;t want to have to keep changing positions throughout the year. Maybe it makes me a bad commish, but I do have it out for discussion and vote. The owner that has Greg Ellis thinks he should keep his position based at the beginning of week 1. This is a dynasty league (keep 20 out of 30) each year. To me, this is life, deal with it.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Epilogue:This commish decided that he should be able to keep A Thomas as a DE, and accused me of calling him a cheat. Half the league is in his F baseball league, and his entourage all sided with him. I responed by saying we had had a previous discussion on AIM bfore the draft, when he told me we areat the mercy of player positional listing changes. He refuses to even acknowledge. His ruling stood. A Thomas, because he was drafted by his incorrect CBS listing as a DE would remain listed as a DE. Then, it got fun. See, we drafted Micheal Robinson, SF, RB as a WR. We put him on the DTS, but I was thinking about activaing him and starting him as a WR. We were already starting both LT and Turner.... so Mr Commish must have looked at our roster. Mr Commish must have gotten worried. What would happen if Gore got injured? We'de be able to play 4 RB's, because M Robinson was drafted as a WR. Suddenly, he admits the error of his ways.... says A Thomas is now an LB, and btw, he changed Robinson from a WR to an RB. Didn't bother to mention this little tidbit until my pard questioned him on it. "Oh, yeah, you guys were right." A complete 180. Why? Because MRob was incorrectly listed. Don't EVER join ANY league unless you KNOW the credibilty of the people in the league. If I had known up front that this tool was charging a $90 "commishioner's fee', I NEVER would have gotten involved. My pard paid the dues.... i had no clue, and agreed to pard up later on. The funniest thing in all of this... I actually think that this guy believes he's on the up and up. I can't wait till the season is over.... he's going to get this link, and i will enjoy telling him all about what he is.

Funny, this just came up in my league. Owner of Greg Ellis complained that he is now listed as lb in mfl. I am the commissioner in the league. I have put it out for discussion and vote amongst the other owners in the league, but to be perfectly honest, I do not want to have to deal with it. If MFL uses official team depth chart, like they say they do, then thats good enough for me. I don;t want to have to keep changing positions throughout the year. Maybe it makes me a bad commish, but I do have it out for discussion and vote. The owner that has Greg Ellis thinks he should keep his position based at the beginning of week 1. This is a dynasty league (keep 20 out of 30) each year. To me, this is life, deal with it.

Me too.I changed Ellis back and chalked it up to one I missed in the pre-season. IMO, there has to be a very compelling reason to change the playing field that has already been established in week one. Positional designation is becoming an important issue with MFL -- I don't remember them changing a player after the season starts in previous years. Greg Ellis wasn't the only player moved unfortunately. And the DT/DE designations are a complete joke. We made around eight manual changes in a DT/CB league this pre-season -- just the rostered players -- and it wasn't enough.Tough decision. Unfortunately, IMO, if you haven't changed the out of position players before the season and someone rostered them and played them at the wrong position already, you don't have much recourse to change them in-season unless you have a rule in place that covers the website changing positions midseason.One more thing for commissioners to plan for in the age of QB/WR, RB/WR, DE/LB tweeners.

 

[lord_helmet]

I also own Ellis, he has basically gone from stud to worthless over night. But playing him as a lineman almost felt like cheating anyway.

And for Rovers, sounds like you're better off just dumping that league at the end of the year like you plan to anyway

 

[onionsack]

I also own Ellis, he has basically gone from stud to worthless over night. But playing him as a lineman almost felt like cheating anyway.

It should have. Seeing as he's a linebacker and all... Honestly, I don't know how people can ##### just because they now actually have to play a guy in the correct position.

 

[Rovers]

So far, I think the cleanest way to handle this is to decide on ONE authoritative source that all owners agree to go with. It's less than perfect, but using the depth chart at NFL.com is the most accurate source and allowing that to dictate positional listings avoids disputes... it is what it is.

A Thomas IS an LB, and that's how he's listed.

Micheal Robinson IS an RB, and that's how he's listed.

Ellis IS an lb who sometimes goes into a stance, and that's how he's listed.

Since the depth chart at NFL.com is actually supplied by the individual NFL teams.... I think it's the clear choice. If a player's listing gets changed there, it's because that team notified the NFL of the change.

To say a player HAS to remian at his position when drafted or picked up, or even after week one.... just isn't fair. Imagine if Gore went down for the season and I was able to start M Robinson as a WR? Using a 4RB line up? Grossly unfair. Especially in leagues where WR's get 1 PPR and RB's get 0.5 to boot. If a player gets relisted by his own NFL team, thems the breaks. That is what happened to Ellis, who I also happen to own in one league, and I didn't complain about that at all.... it is the fair equitable thing to do.