Player Spotlight: Vernon Davis, TE, San Francisco 49ers (1 Viewer)

[drummer]

Sorry I don't buy the idea that the niners are just going to ground and pound just because crabtree isn't around. Count me in the minority that considers Harbaugh's adoption of a heavy ground game a necessity due to the limitations of Smith as a game manager. I feel like they're going to open things up this year and keep the ball in the hands of Kaepernick. Let's not forget that tight ends were featured HEAVILY in Harbaugh's offense at Stanford when he had an elite passing talent in Andrew Luck. But of course until the season begins, all of this is conjecture.

And to address WHY Davis lining up as a WR matters... it means he is now a deep option on play action/read option passes, of which the niners run alot of. He rarely ran routes on play action passes when lined up as an inline TE.

They will open up the passing offense more no doubt. I don't question that.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Just because Davis lines up @ X, Y, or Z doesn't mean he is going to be the primary target. The threat of he lining up anywhere could be because it opens up the passing offense more for other targets. Davis has been used more as a decoy than I can count.

This is a good point. Davis can beat even double coverage, so the defense has to respect him.

 

[drummer]

Just because Davis lines up @ X, Y, or Z doesn't mean he is going to be the primary target. The threat of he lining up anywhere could be because it opens up the passing offense more for other targets. Davis has been used more as a decoy than I can count.

This is a good point. Davis can beat even double coverage, so the defense has to respect him.

Like chinawildman pointed out, having Davis line up in the different spots will open up a lot more plays, as well as free him up to get more space within the passing offense as a whole. Yet even not being a target on smaller plays, his speed and blocking ability can free up a RB reception because he can line up anywhere and block, and creates more dynamics for Kaep's read and progression.

That is the reason why Davis was drafted, that he has size and speed, could line up anywhere, and create a more dynamic offense even as a blocker. It's old hat. The quote of "I will do anything they ask me to do" is so Mike Martz's 2008 offense where Davis said the same thing when called to block more than be a threat. He said that back then too. Martz had similar ideas and promised the same with Davis back then in the pre-season and camp by featuring him more within his offense. Of course, you need a QB with that offense, and Martz didn't have them. So thus Davis in 2008.

I hate Martz because he eventually ruins offenses built by others, yet he did create an offense with lesser parts and with Shaun Hill at QB. Of course we all knew then that it spelled Davis' potential numbers to sleeping with the fishes, yet that season with Martz really helped him become a more complete football player.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Just because Davis lines up @ X, Y, or Z doesn't mean he is going to be the primary target. The threat of he lining up anywhere could be because it opens up the passing offense more for other targets. Davis has been used more as a decoy than I can count.

This is a good point. Davis can beat even double coverage, so the defense has to respect him.

Like chinawildman pointed out, having Davis line up in the different spots will open up a lot more plays, as well as free him up to get more space within the passing offense as a whole. Yet even not being a target on smaller plays, his speed and blocking ability can free up a RB reception because he can line up anywhere and block, and creates more dynamics for Kaep's read and progression.

That is the reason why Davis was drafted, that he has size and speed, could line up anywhere, and create a more dynamic offense even as a blocker. It's old hat. The quote of "I will do anything they ask me to do" is so Mike Martz's 2008 offense where Davis said the same thing when called to block more than be a threat. He said that back then too. Martz had similar ideas and promised the same with Davis back then in the pre-season and camp by featuring him more within his offense. Of course, you need a QB with that offense, and Martz didn't have them. So thus Davis in 2008.

I hate Martz because he eventually ruins offenses built by others, yet he did create an offense with lesser parts and with Shaun Hill at QB. Of course we all knew then that it spelled Davis' potential numbers to sleeping with the fishes, yet that season with Martz really helped him become a more complete football player.

I don't hate Martz, but he really did not care to use Davis' receiving talents - and that just seems ridiculous.

 

[drummer]

Just because Davis lines up @ X, Y, or Z doesn't mean he is going to be the primary target. The threat of he lining up anywhere could be because it opens up the passing offense more for other targets. Davis has been used more as a decoy than I can count.

This is a good point. Davis can beat even double coverage, so the defense has to respect him.

Like chinawildman pointed out, having Davis line up in the different spots will open up a lot more plays, as well as free him up to get more space within the passing offense as a whole. Yet even not being a target on smaller plays, his speed and blocking ability can free up a RB reception because he can line up anywhere and block, and creates more dynamics for Kaep's read and progression.

That is the reason why Davis was drafted, that he has size and speed, could line up anywhere, and create a more dynamic offense even as a blocker. It's old hat. The quote of "I will do anything they ask me to do" is so Mike Martz's 2008 offense where Davis said the same thing when called to block more than be a threat. He said that back then too. Martz had similar ideas and promised the same with Davis back then in the pre-season and camp by featuring him more within his offense. Of course, you need a QB with that offense, and Martz didn't have them. So thus Davis in 2008.

I hate Martz because he eventually ruins offenses built by others, yet he did create an offense with lesser parts and with Shaun Hill at QB. Of course we all knew then that it spelled Davis' potential numbers to sleeping with the fishes, yet that season with Martz really helped him become a more complete football player.

I don't hate Martz, but he really did not care to use Davis' receiving talents - and that just seems ridiculous.

He did more for Davis than any other OC he had in his earlier seasons prior to even Jimmy Raye. Norv Turner had him as a rookie. The other TE was Jessica Simpson's baby daddy in 2006 his rookie season. The only other real target was Antonio Bryant at #1 WR. Heck, the leading receiver as far as receptions that season was Arnaz Battle. The second was Frank Gore. Baby daddy had more than Davis that season as well.

Martz had a mess at the QB and WR positions when he came on, and even in Davis' second year with Jim Hostler as OC - where Davis really shined in late season games with Hill as the emergency QB before they had to go with sinking boat of a NFL franchise because Chris Wienke had to finish the abortion (after Trent Dilfer got injured starting in place of injured Alex Smith)....

I dunno if Davis had ever been thought of having great hands in the NFL - which as a 49er TE historically may not have - but that was always a concern with him. He still has the dropsies. That was a concern of Martz back then. He just didn't have the mature hands. If you didn't have a QB who can place a ball into the hands which the 49ers didn't have then during that year (and now Kaep has still yet to prove on a consistent level of trust), well maybe Martz had to rely on an aging Issac Bruce who had better hands then with said QB's. The receivers were trying to catch fluttering ducks back then. Live chickens. Hot potatoes. Martz had to shrink his offense with the 49ers to Oompa Loopa levels with the weak arms of scrub QBs who you would never even think to start an NFL franchise with. It damn amazing with that 2008 team, with Mike Nolan and then Mike Singletary as head coach that they could complete a forward pass. Davis just didn't have the hands and offensive impact to overcome all that. Think about that offensive line back then under a Mike Martz offense with very little talent overall. He's the scapegoat and reason why Nolan got fired. Even post 2008, Singletary of all idiot head coaches is thought to have the biggest impact on Davis. The only real impact he had was that he was such a horrid coach that the only real relevance Davis had was in FF. Basically because of Jimmy Raye's Fire Drill offense, which posted Davis' best numbers with Smith heaving the ball to him wide open in an uncontested seam route that didn't test Davis' hands.

Somebody has to tell me he has the best hands of a TE in the NFL. Then somebody has to tell me he has the best hands of a WR. Then somebody has to tell me he is the best route runner out of all TEs and WRs. Then somebody has to tell me that he also has the best hands on the 49ers.

Then you can tell me how Mike Martz missed all that.

 

[chinawildman]

Somebody has to tell me he has the best hands of a TE in the NFL. Then somebody has to tell me he has the best hands of a WR. Then somebody has to tell me he is the best route runner out of all TEs and WRs. Then somebody has to tell me that he also has the best hands on the 49ers.

Then you can tell me how Mike Martz missed all that.

In all fairness to Davis, he has worked hard to dramatically improve in this department. That catch he had to win the divisional playoff game against the Saints wouldn't have happened with the younger VD as he had a case of alligator arms back then.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/08/07/vernon-davis-from-hands-of-stone-to-mitts-of-magnet/

 

[chinawildman]

Definitely glad to see Boldin establish himself as a threat to take the attention off of VD. Also read that 71 of Davis's 98 yards came when he was lined up in the slot, good to see that work put into crafting his routes as a receiver seem to be paying off.

 

[thecatch]

Are we still feeling giddy about Vernon? He seems like the one guy who could challenge Jimmy Graham for TE1 status if the speculation on his usage is accurate. He could be the centerpiece of a dominant fantasy roster if he pans out this season. All he needs is the targets.

I'd like to see him actually lining up at WR or in the slot this week.

He's not overtaking Graham. First, the offensive philisophy for SF doesn't suit a top TE. They don't focus on the pass enough, don't run a large number of plays, and have a dynamite defense. Secondly, and this is for everyone who thinks he hasn't lived up to expectations, he is a beast as a blocker. That means that he's not out on every pattern and is going to have a few more dingers than Graham/ Personally, I think Davis is still overvalued in FF, but often underrated as a pure TE as his receiving stats aren't showy, but his value to the team is tremendous. He'll have a few monster games that will make his final stat line palatable, but he's not going to challenge Graham/Gronk as the top TE.

I totally disagree. You are looking at VD's historical role, which would be fine if the team still had pass catching options like Crabtree, Delanie, and Moss.

What you need to look at is how Harbaugh has adjusted the offense each season to take advantage of the talent and skillset on the roster. The offense has not been static.

IMO--Harbaugh will continue to take adapt the offense and highlight his best skill player, VD, in 2013.

The personnel changes are overrated. Moss never did anything last year, and McDonald and Boldin will be reasonable substitutes for Crabtree and Walker.

Do you honestly believe this?

Yup. Boldin looks great and should get you 75% of what Crabtree did. McDonald has more receiving talent than Walker. Citing the absence of Moss and Walker, who didnt contribute much at all in the passing game last year, as a reason for VD to blow up doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure what industry besides hand grenades a reasonable substitute = 75%. I think its better just to disagree...and hope he blows up.

So Boldin actually ended up exceeding Crabtree's numbers last year. Just crazy.

 

[drummer]

Are we still feeling giddy about Vernon? He seems like the one guy who could challenge Jimmy Graham for TE1 status if the speculation on his usage is accurate. He could be the centerpiece of a dominant fantasy roster if he pans out this season. All he needs is the targets.

I'd like to see him actually lining up at WR or in the slot this week.

He's not overtaking Graham. First, the offensive philisophy for SF doesn't suit a top TE. They don't focus on the pass enough, don't run a large number of plays, and have a dynamite defense. Secondly, and this is for everyone who thinks he hasn't lived up to expectations, he is a beast as a blocker. That means that he's not out on every pattern and is going to have a few more dingers than Graham/ Personally, I think Davis is still overvalued in FF, but often underrated as a pure TE as his receiving stats aren't showy, but his value to the team is tremendous. He'll have a few monster games that will make his final stat line palatable, but he's not going to challenge Graham/Gronk as the top TE.

I totally disagree. You are looking at VD's historical role, which would be fine if the team still had pass catching options like Crabtree, Delanie, and Moss.

What you need to look at is how Harbaugh has adjusted the offense each season to take advantage of the talent and skillset on the roster. The offense has not been static.

IMO--Harbaugh will continue to take adapt the offense and highlight his best skill player, VD, in 2013.

The personnel changes are overrated. Moss never did anything last year, and McDonald and Boldin will be reasonable substitutes for Crabtree and Walker.

Do you honestly believe this?

Yup. Boldin looks great and should get you 75% of what Crabtree did. McDonald has more receiving talent than Walker. Citing the absence of Moss and Walker, who didnt contribute much at all in the passing game last year, as a reason for VD to blow up doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure what industry besides hand grenades a reasonable substitute = 75%. I think its better just to disagree...and hope he blows up.

So Boldin actually ended up exceeding Crabtree's numbers last year. Just crazy.

I think that has more to do with Crabtree being out for most of this one.