Plummer supports the firing of Shanahan (1 Viewer)

[Wadsworth]

LINK

"Plummer indicated Shanahan seemed to become increasingly obsessed with the Broncos’ NFL rank in offense or defense instead of the win-loss record.

“It’s hard on a team. We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers,” Plummer said.

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

-----------------------

The Broncos were 40-18 with Plummer as their starting quarterback. While everyone acknowledges Cutler is a far more talented passer, he is only 17-20 as a starter.

“He’s a great quarterback, don’t get me wrong,” Plummer said. “I’m not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he’s a helluva player. But Jeff George was a helluva player. There’s a lot of guys who have been great players.”

He's not disrespecting Cutler then compare's him to Jeff George?

 

[Ghost Rider]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

 

[thatguy]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

I believe there is probably some truth to what he's saying. He comes across as very candid rather than bitter.ETA: I've felt for a while now that Shanny had lost control of the locker room. When Elway was there, he had a special connection with Elway that allowed the whole team to really get on board with his way of doing things. His ideas were fresh and bred success, so it was easy to follow his lead. But with a newer, younger generation of faces in that locker room, he no longer had that ability to connect with the players on a more personal level and tried instead to rule with an iron fist. It was just speculation on my part, but Plummer seems to confirm those beliefs. For other coaches, that approach may well work, but it didn't seem to work for Shanny.

 

[burd]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation.

Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

 

[thatguy]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

 

[Buffaloes]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

 

[Adebisi]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

Isn't that sort of akin to quitting, regardless of whether it was "on this team" or "because he got demoted?"

 

[thatguy]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

Isn't that sort of akin to quitting, regardless of whether it was "on this team" or "because he got demoted?"

Sure, but if you want to put it that way, every player in the NFL quits at some point.I'm pretty sure Jake knew that at his salary, Denver would not keep him as a backup QB, and he didn't want to play for another organization. He probably felt the AFCCG was as close he would get to the big show, so he chose to walk away from the game. It was unorthodox to be sure, as many more players stick around much longer than they should, desperately trying to prove they still have it.

 

[Buffaloes]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

Isn't that sort of akin to quitting, regardless of whether it was "on this team" or "because he got demoted?"

I guess it depends on how you classify a quitter. He retired after the season was over. Is anyone who retires after the season a "quitter?"

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

Isn't that sort of akin to quitting, regardless of whether it was "on this team" or "because he got demoted?"

No. He retired during the offseason. If Favre retires next week, is he quitting on the Jets?

 

[Ghost Rider]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

I believe there is probably some truth to what he's saying. He comes across as very candid rather than bitter.ETA: I've felt for a while now that Shanny had lost control of the locker room. When Elway was there, he had a special connection with Elway that allowed the whole team to really get on board with his way of doing things. His ideas were fresh and bred success, so it was easy to follow his lead. But with a newer, younger generation of faces in that locker room, he no longer had that ability to connect with the players on a more personal level and tried instead to rule with an iron fist. It was just speculation on my part, but Plummer seems to confirm those beliefs. For other coaches, that approach may well work, but it didn't seem to work for Shanny.

I am not saying Shanny didn''t have his faults, but having them pointed out by a QB who was pretty mediocre for most of his career is pretty funny, you gotta admit. This would be like Kordell Stewart pointing out Bill Cowher's faults when he was Pittsburgh's coach.

 

[Wadsworth]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

I believe there is probably some truth to what he's saying. He comes across as very candid rather than bitter.ETA: I've felt for a while now that Shanny had lost control of the locker room. When Elway was there, he had a special connection with Elway that allowed the whole team to really get on board with his way of doing things. His ideas were fresh and bred success, so it was easy to follow his lead. But with a newer, younger generation of faces in that locker room, he no longer had that ability to connect with the players on a more personal level and tried instead to rule with an iron fist. It was just speculation on my part, but Plummer seems to confirm those beliefs. For other coaches, that approach may well work, but it didn't seem to work for Shanny.

I am not saying Shanny didn''t have his faults, but having them pointed out by a QB who was pretty mediocre for most of his career is pretty funny, you gotta admit. This would be like Kordell Stewart pointing out Bill Cowher's faults when he was Pittsburgh's coach.

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

 

[Wadsworth]

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

I'd be interested in seeing Shanahan's record as a HC without Plummer or Elway.

 

[Christo]

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

Might that have something to do with the GM/Head Coach?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Jake Plummer might not be the greatest QB to ever play the game, but I'm pretty sure he's well-qualified to talk about how a head coach influences the mood of a team. His TD-INT ratio is irrelevant in that case.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

I'd be interested in seeing Shanahan's record as a HC without Plummer or Elway.

In Denver, in games where the starter was not Elway or Plummer, I believe Shanahan was 57-54.

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

Might that have something to do with the GM/Head Coach?

Yep, and that was the problem. Shanahan wasn't as good a GM as he was a head coach. That is why the next team he goes to would benefit greatly by having him just be the head coach.

 

[hacman]

I don’t classify Jake Plummer as a quitter. He’s a man who left the NFL on his terms and I can definitely respect that. (Though the whole returning the bonus drama can be defended from both sides.)

That being said, Plummer is sour grapes here. If he wants to label Shanahan as not relatable to his players, then I’ll label Plummer’s comments as passive-aggressive or misguided at best. He complains about Shanahan trying to motivate a 7-2 team from getting complacent, which probably has been done more than once by an NFL coach. Calling out the ex-coach who helped to resurrect his career comes off as self-absorbed.

His commentary on Cutler is pathetic. Nice way to trash two people while trying to seem above it all. Yes, Cutler is still a young qb who definitely needs seasoning, (on the field and off the field- in regards to his PR savvy) but has been asked to carry the team before his time. Plummer went through the same dilemma in Arizona, so he should know what that’s like. Jay is still a young man and is in the first part of his learning curve. Jake has been already been through the ringer and still apparently hasn’t learned much- what’s his excuse?

 

[FUBAR]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

I believe there is probably some truth to what he's saying. He comes across as very candid rather than bitter.ETA: I've felt for a while now that Shanny had lost control of the locker room. When Elway was there, he had a special connection with Elway that allowed the whole team to really get on board with his way of doing things. His ideas were fresh and bred success, so it was easy to follow his lead. But with a newer, younger generation of faces in that locker room, he no longer had that ability to connect with the players on a more personal level and tried instead to rule with an iron fist. It was just speculation on my part, but Plummer seems to confirm those beliefs. For other coaches, that approach may well work, but it didn't seem to work for Shanny.

I am not saying Shanny didn''t have his faults, but having them pointed out by a QB who was pretty mediocre for most of his career is pretty funny, you gotta admit. This would be like Kordell Stewart pointing out Bill Cowher's faults when he was Pittsburgh's coach.

Not quite, Shanny is far overrated in many circles. He's an above average coach who thought he was more than that. Despite their records being close, Cowher is the better coach, by far.

 

[Buffaloes]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

I believe there is probably some truth to what he's saying. He comes across as very candid rather than bitter.ETA: I've felt for a while now that Shanny had lost control of the locker room. When Elway was there, he had a special connection with Elway that allowed the whole team to really get on board with his way of doing things. His ideas were fresh and bred success, so it was easy to follow his lead. But with a newer, younger generation of faces in that locker room, he no longer had that ability to connect with the players on a more personal level and tried instead to rule with an iron fist. It was just speculation on my part, but Plummer seems to confirm those beliefs. For other coaches, that approach may well work, but it didn't seem to work for Shanny.

I am not saying Shanny didn''t have his faults, but having them pointed out by a QB who was pretty mediocre for most of his career is pretty funny, you gotta admit. This would be like Kordell Stewart pointing out Bill Cowher's faults when he was Pittsburgh's coach.

Not quite, Shanny is far overrated in many circles. He's an above average coach who thought he was more than that. Despite their records being close, Cowher is the better coach, by far.

Really? By far? I don't see it. Shanahan has 2 Super Bowl wins and Cowher has 1. I think they are both good coaches in their own right and I don't see how Cowher is the better coach "by far."In fact, shanahan's Broncos beat Cowher's Steelers in the AFCCG to get to Super Bowl XXXII

 

[anakin]

Cowher's Steelers beat Shanahan's Broncos in the AFCCG to get to Super Bowl XL. So what does that prove?

 

[Buffaloes]

Cowher's Steelers beat Shanahan's Broncos in the AFCCG to get to Super Bowl XL. So what does that prove?

Not a lot. My point was I do not think Cowher is "by far" the better coach. I think they are comparable.

 

[domvin]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

 

[Buffaloes]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

 

[anakin]

Cowher's Steelers beat Shanahan's Broncos in the AFCCG to get to Super Bowl XL. So what does that prove?

Not a lot. My point was I do not think Cowher is "by far" the better coach. I think they are comparable.

You brought up the obviousness of Shanahan besting Cowher and then there is a more recent example that counteracts your argument. Then let's compare winnning seasons and divison titles. Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season. I'm not saying Cowher is the best coach, but he was better than Shanahan.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not quite, Shanny is far overrated in many circles. He's an above average coach who thought he was more than that.

First off, I was not comparing them directly. I was merely giving a comparable example. Secondly,

Despite their records being close, Cowher is the better coach, by far.

Hogwash. They are/were both great head coaches. Both have the records to back it up. They are pretty close. If you think one is better than the other, that is fine, but for anyone to suggest that either is significantly better than the other is hogwash.

 

[domvin]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

 

[Ghost Rider]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

 

[Sweet Love]

i read the whole article and i find it hypocritical for a quitter to talk about motivation. Why don't we get Ricky Williams' point of view on this subject while we're at it?

He didn't quit. He got bounced from his starting job and decided he was ready to hang 'em up rather than try his hand with another team. I've always respected Jake's decision. The comparison to Ricky is pretty absurd. Ricky quit on his team. Jake most certainly did not.

Plummer didn't quit on the team. He was benched midseason for Cutler and then he retired during the following offseason after he was demoted to #2 QB and remained retired after being traded to Tampa.

Isn't that sort of akin to quitting, regardless of whether it was "on this team" or "because he got demoted?"

We have no clue what is going on these guys' personal lives that make them retire before "we" think they are ready to retire. Elvis Grbac retired out of nowhere (I think at age 32 or 33), but happened to cite that he wanted to spend more time with family. He got a pass on that...would we as fans felt better if Plummer stated he wanted to hike in the mountains more or hook up with random womens?? If I had 5 million in the bank I (and we all know he has more), I would never work again, and spend my days trying to grow grass in my front yard.

 

[Gopher State]

at Plummer dogging the only coach who ever made him not look like complete crap 80% of the time.

Very Shanny saved Plummer's career

 

[Sweet Love]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

Normalcy goes out the window when at age 32, you have more money than many presidents of companies do when they are 65. It may not be what most pro athletes do, but if he is just not happy, why not quit. I would find the customer service rep who quits his job with $700 in the bank because he is "unhappy" to be odd, but it happens everyday (and on this board too...at least to the 1% of FBGs that don not make at least 100k...lol).ETA: What makes Plummer a little "different" is that he stopped when he had like 10 million in the bank; not when he could not do it anymore. He played it out like I would have, but the difference is he has a special drive that most pro athletes possess that enables them to get to the top of their sport. What makes him special is that he could turn it on and off. For those that cannot, see Jerry Rice in Seattle and denver.

 

[anakin]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

Sorry yes 2 6-10 years and a 7-9 year.

 

[domvin]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

Normalcy goes out the window when at age 32, you have more money than many presidents of companies do when they are 65. It may not be what most pro athletes do, but if he is just not happy, why not quit. I would find the customer service rep who quits his job with $700 in the bank because he is "unhappy" to be odd, but it happens everyday (and on this board too...at least to the 1% of FBGs that don not make at least 100k...lol).

Sure, just a difference between having a lot of cash vs. my porno stache is better than how my career turned out.

 

[Buffaloes]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

From a talent standpoint, no. But your argument that Plummer could have achieved more doesn't make sense. Barry Sanders was staring at the all-time rushing record when he retired in his prime. Still he retired on his own terms and still had more he could have achieved. Neither of them quit on anybody. They retired.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

Sorry yes 2 6-10 years and a 7-9 year.

The way I see it:-Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years in Pittsburgh-Shanahan had 2 losing seasons in 14 years in Denver-Cowher won 1 Super Bowl-Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls-Cowher's Steelers won 10 games or more 9 times-Shanny's Broncos won 10 games or more 7 times-Cowher's Steelers won 149 games in 15 seasons-Shanny's Broncos won 138 games in 14 seasonsLike I said, it is pretty close.

 

[Buffaloes]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

Sorry yes 2 6-10 years and a 7-9 year.

The way I see it:-Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years in Pittsburgh-Shanahan had 2 losing seasons in 14 years in Denver-Cowher won 1 Super Bowl-Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls-Cowher's Steelers won 10 games or more 9 times-Shanny's Broncos won 10 games or more 7 times-Cowher's Steelers won 149 games in 15 seasons-Shanny's Broncos won 138 games in 14 seasonsLike I said, it is pretty close.

I was going to gather this info and post it later.

 

[Sweet Love]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

Normalcy goes out the window when at age 32, you have more money than many presidents of companies do when they are 65. It may not be what most pro athletes do, but if he is just not happy, why not quit. I would find the customer service rep who quits his job with $700 in the bank because he is "unhappy" to be odd, but it happens everyday (and on this board too...at least to the 1% of FBGs that don not make at least 100k...lol).

Sure, just a difference between having a lot of cash vs. my porno stache is better than how my career turned out.

Don't give up. Ride out that stache...it could earn you millions some day. For now, just be happy you have a little luch leftover when you get hungry around 3pm.

 

[domvin]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

From a talent standpoint, no. But your argument that Plummer could have achieved more doesn't make sense. Barry Sanders was staring at the all-time rushing record when he retired in his prime. Still he retired on his own terms and still had more he could have achieved. Neither of them quit on anybody. They retired.

So, you would be OK retiring when the general perception is that "the guy is walking away after being demoted?"How does that not make any sense? Seriously, I am not trying to flame you, but what exactly did plummer achieve in his playing career?

1. Taking the Cardinals to the playoffs. That about sums it up for Plummers legacy. And really, there is nothing more

The guy quit after being demoted.

If derek Anderson quit tomorrow, I'd say the same thing. Quinn took his job, and he is quitting

Plummer quit on himself, but now he gets to watch salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods....... Yippee!

 

[thatguy]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

He walked away from the game because for him, it was the right time. He didn't have anything to prove, even if, as you put it, he never proved anything. I respect that far more than all these aging vets who can't bring themselves to let go of the game, guys whose entire identities are tied into what they do on the field every Sunday. Plummer left the game of football on his own terms, albeit with a little nudge from the Broncos. But it's absurd to call him a quitter.

 

[Tau837]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

Sorry yes 2 6-10 years and a 7-9 year.

The way I see it:-Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years in Pittsburgh-Shanahan had 2 losing seasons in 14 years in Denver-Cowher won 1 Super Bowl-Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls-Cowher's Steelers won 10 games or more 9 times-Shanny's Broncos won 10 games or more 7 times-Cowher's Steelers won 149 games in 15 seasons-Shanny's Broncos won 138 games in 14 seasonsLike I said, it is pretty close.

Big difference in taking over a team with Elway at QB than with Neil O'Donnell, though.

 

[thatguy]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

From a talent standpoint, no. But your argument that Plummer could have achieved more doesn't make sense. Barry Sanders was staring at the all-time rushing record when he retired in his prime. Still he retired on his own terms and still had more he could have achieved. Neither of them quit on anybody. They retired.

So, you would be OK retiring when the general perception is that "the guy is walking away after being demoted?"How does that not make any sense? Seriously, I am not trying to flame you, but what exactly did plummer achieve in his playing career?

1. Taking the Cardinals to the playoffs. That about sums it up for Plummers legacy. And really, there is nothing more

The guy quit after being demoted.

If derek Anderson quit tomorrow, I'd say the same thing. Quinn took his job, and he is quitting

Plummer quit on himself, but now he gets to watch salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods....... Yippee!

This may be hard for you to understand, but for many players, football is not everything.

 

[moleculo]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

1. how are people "living in seclusion, hiding from society" interviewed? Either they are doing a terrible job w/ the whole seclusion/hiding thing, or they are simply not hiding in seclusion. The fact that Jake plays in national handball tournaments says he isn't hiding from anyone.2. the instant I have enough cash in the bank that I can afford to not work any more, I'm gone. Ideally, I'll get a cabin in the mountains and live in seclusion and hide from society. Most of my friends would do the same, I think it's a perfectly normal response.

 

[moleculo]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

From a talent standpoint, no. But your argument that Plummer could have achieved more doesn't make sense. Barry Sanders was staring at the all-time rushing record when he retired in his prime. Still he retired on his own terms and still had more he could have achieved. Neither of them quit on anybody. They retired.

So, you would be OK retiring when the general perception is that "the guy is walking away after being demoted?"How does that not make any sense? Seriously, I am not trying to flame you, but what exactly did plummer achieve in his playing career?

1. Taking the Cardinals to the playoffs. That about sums it up for Plummers legacy. And really, there is nothing more

The guy quit after being demoted.

If derek Anderson quit tomorrow, I'd say the same thing. Quinn took his job, and he is quitting

Plummer quit on himself, but now he gets to watch salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods....... Yippee!

watching salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods is a career goal of mine. If some nobody on a message board thinks I'm a quitter, I think I'd be ok with that.

 

[Buffaloes]

So, you would be OK retiring when the general perception is that "the guy is walking away after being demoted?"How does that not make any sense? Seriously, I am not trying to flame you, but what exactly did plummer achieve in his playing career?1. Taking the Cardinals to the playoffs. That about sums it up for Plummers legacy. And really, there is nothing moreThe guy quit after being demoted.If derek Anderson quit tomorrow, I'd say the same thing. Quinn took his job, and he is quittingPlummer quit on himself, but now he gets to watch salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods....... Yippee!

No worries. Nothing wrong with a good debate on a Friday afternoon. Personally, I don't think his legacy has anything to do with it and from what I have seen of Plummer I don't think he really cares either. I think he was tired of the NFL, didn't want to move to another city (especially when he had no say in where he was going), and went out on his own terms. If that is quitting to some, then so be it. I just don't see it as that. Who is to say he is not happier watching salmon swim upstream or running from bears?

 

[domvin]

Definitely....we'll just have to disagree here

and for me, yeah, maybe I see it differently than the normal FF geek.

Playing 4 years of college ball, it was a goal of mine to continue in the NFL, but I wasn't good enough. So, you see a guy walk away who's there, and can still play, some questionable envy involved I guess.

I'll just continue to be the nobody that I am, thanks molecule man. Can I sweep your floor while I'm at it?

 

[FUBAR]

Cowher had a 6-10 season and that was his only losing season.

That is factually incorrect.

Sorry yes 2 6-10 years and a 7-9 year.

The way I see it:-Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years in Pittsburgh-Shanahan had 2 losing seasons in 14 years in Denver-Cowher won 1 Super Bowl-Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls-Cowher's Steelers won 10 games or more 9 times-Shanny's Broncos won 10 games or more 7 times-Cowher's Steelers won 149 games in 15 seasons-Shanny's Broncos won 138 games in 14 seasonsLike I said, it is pretty close.

Big difference in taking over a team with Elway at QB than with Neil O'Donnell, though.

Shanny's good, there's no denying that. He has the 31st best record in NFL history. He's 99-81 (.550) without Elway, which would be 55th best all time, lower than Fisher, Fox, Lovie, etc. Cowher is 21st best all time and never had a player like Elway to rely on. He had some great defensive players, but IMO nobody rose to Elway's stature. Maybe that doesn't mean much and we should ignore that Shanny had the luxury of taking over a team that was good and had one of the best QBs all time in his prime. Nevertheless, Cowher's record is still better than Shanny's.

 

[FUBAR]

2. the instant I have enough cash in the bank that I can afford to not work any more, I'm gone. Ideally, I'll get a cabin in the mountains and live in seclusion and hide from society. Most of my friends would do the same, I think it's a perfectly normal response.

Honestly, how much does it cost to live in seclusion, away from society? I've met a few moutainmen, they're far from wealthy.I don't blame anyone for retiring while they're healthy, in fact I admire people who can step away from it all. Plummer's still a clown.

 

[Manster]

LINK

"Plummer indicated Shanahan seemed to become increasingly obsessed with the Broncos’ NFL rank in offense or defense instead of the win-loss record.

“It’s hard on a team. We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers,” Plummer said.

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

-----------------------

The Broncos were 40-18 with Plummer as their starting quarterback. While everyone acknowledges Cutler is a far more talented passer, he is only 17-20 as a starter.

“He’s a great quarterback, don’t get me wrong,” Plummer said. “I’m not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he’s a helluva player. But Jeff George was a helluva player. There’s a lot of guys who have been great players.”

He's not disrespecting Cutler then compare's him to Jeff George?

does anyone really care what jake plummer thinks?

 

[domvin]

Plummer's considered a quitter, bc when he retired, he still had time left to play.

and a lot of time at that, and he really never achieved much....so yeah, I'd consider him a quitter.

So would you say the same about Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Robert Smith and anyone else who retired when they still had some left in the tank?

No, I wouldn't because those guys achieved some great things.let me make it simpler: When you leave your profession, at an early age, and go living in seclusion, hiding from society....that's not normal.

Plummer could have achieved more, but he quit

Barry sanders and Plummer do not belong in the same sentence

From a talent standpoint, no. But your argument that Plummer could have achieved more doesn't make sense. Barry Sanders was staring at the all-time rushing record when he retired in his prime. Still he retired on his own terms and still had more he could have achieved. Neither of them quit on anybody. They retired.

So, you would be OK retiring when the general perception is that "the guy is walking away after being demoted?"How does that not make any sense? Seriously, I am not trying to flame you, but what exactly did plummer achieve in his playing career?

1. Taking the Cardinals to the playoffs. That about sums it up for Plummers legacy. And really, there is nothing more

The guy quit after being demoted.

If derek Anderson quit tomorrow, I'd say the same thing. Quinn took his job, and he is quitting

Plummer quit on himself, but now he gets to watch salmon swim upstream and run away from Bears in the woods....... Yippee!

This may be hard for you to understand, but for many players, football is not everything.

Definitely....and that's why they walk awayWe have to judge Plummer the athlete, as that's what he's done. Walking away at the low point of his career, being demoted, blah blah blah

Is anyone going to think back, 20 years from now and say "Damn, that Plummer was the best Hiker I ever saw." He was the best .....I dont know, seclusionist west of the aleghenys....

Sorry I pissed on your avatar.

You'd have a better argument stating he was very much affected by the death of pat tillman, and chose to walk away....that I can buy

Can you understand that?

 

[puckalicious]

Yea, but that same coach was 40-18 with Plummer and 17-20 after benching him.

The collapse of the Broncos defense over the last few seasons has everything to do with that. The Broncos defense finished in the top 5 in total defense two of the three seasons where Plummer started the whole season. In Cutler's two full seasons, the Broncos defense has finished 19th and 29th in total defense.

I'd be interested in seeing Shanahan's record as a HC without Plummer or Elway.

In Denver, in games where the starter was not Elway or Plummer, I believe Shanahan was 57-54.

Um, I bet if you take any coach and count their record without their best QB's they'll have a losing record. Isn't this kind of like saying Tony Dungy is a crappy coach without Manning?