Points Champion? But didn't make the playoffs! (1 Viewer)

[JuSt CuZ]

I am curious as this just happened in one of my leagues and is the first time I have seen this in any of my leagues in my whole fantasy existance.

Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?

It is a 16 week point league, but person was ahead at the end of reg season as well!

He was point leader from week 10 on, and was in top 3 most of year, record was 6-7....

Just a little baffled.

 

[Black&Gold]

I am just curious as this is the first time I have seen this in my fantasy existance.Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?

I run 2 leagues and in both I have the final wild card being the top point scorer that didn't make the playoffs via record. I don't know why you wouldn't do it anyway else.

 

[Banger]

I am curious as this just happened in one of my leagues and is the first time I have seen this in any of my leagues in my whole fantasy existance.Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?It is a 16 week point league, but person was ahead at the end of reg season as well!He was point leader from week 10 on, and was in top 3 most of year, record was 6-7....Just a little baffled.

That was me this year. Had the toughest strength of schedule by far and every week it seemed like I went up against the top point guy for the week. Sometimes it just happens that way. In our league we have the #6 spot as a power rank spot so it is recognized if you get crushed by the schedule (but you don't get any money for getting the playoff spot until you win).

 

[David Yudkin]

One year I led 4 leagues in scoring and missed the playoffs in 3 of them. The one I did make I needed a fluke fumble at the end of MNF to sneak in or I would have missed the playoffs in that one as well.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I have been in one league for 17 years and have only missed the playoff one time. The year I missed the playoffs I was 5-8, but led the league in points scored and points against. Bad luck.

I like the suggestion of leaving the final wildcard to the points leader among non-playoff teams. Actually, why not grant playoff spots to each division winner and all wildcards based on points scored?

 

[JuSt CuZ]

I have been in one league for 17 years and have only missed the playoff one time. The year I missed the playoffs I was 5-8, but led the league in points scored and points against. Bad luck.I like the suggestion of leaving the final wildcard to the points leader among non-playoff teams. Actually, why not grant playoff spots to each division winner and all wildcards based on points scored?

I'm getting mocked for not making the playoffs buy a guy who has always said "win loss is luck and points shows skill"...but now that he won the Superbowl in the league I had this happen in, his views change, lol.No one should be rewarded for luck, points should have more power then tie breakers.When one of the best teams missed the playoffs, theres no justification to the title, if u ask me!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I am curious as this just happened in one of my leagues and is the first time I have seen this in any of my leagues in my whole fantasy existance.Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?

This happened in one of my leagues this year, and I've seen it happen before. It's just bad luck. No matter how well you score each week, there's no way to prevent your opponent from blowing up that week. Like others have mentioned, I have serious problems with any league setup that doesn't use points-for as the first tiebreaker. Your team's record already has a lot of statistical "noise" built into it anyway, and I can't see the justification for using things like head-to-head record or even worse crap like divisional or conference record to break ties.

 

[theplayer11]

When one of the best teams missed the playoffs, theres no justification to the title, if u ask me!

most points doesn't show the whole story....consistency is more important. A team might go off 2-3 weeks and score a lot of points, then throw in a few stinkers. A team that is consistent has a chance to win every week.

 

[tikitime]

In a ten team league and the cream usually rises to the top, but one time several years ago, the TOP 3 point scorers all missed out on the post season. We thought about changing the playoff rules a bit to include a "points" wildcard, but that kind of thing was very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Ariakis]

One of my teams fits this mold. It missed high points by like 40 for the season (1-16) so one or two different decisions and I get there. It appears I'll win the toilet bowl if ADP stays <25 in a PPR tonight. That said, my team features MJD who has been the poster child for inconsistancy. You love his big games but he's come up small a lot.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Some of it is bad luck, no question...but in some cases, some of the losses come down to poor lineup decisions.

 

[Ninersfan]

I have been in one league for 17 years and have only missed the playoff one time. The year I missed the playoffs I was 5-8, but led the league in points scored and points against. Bad luck.I like the suggestion of leaving the final wildcard to the points leader among non-playoff teams. Actually, why not grant playoff spots to each division winner and all wildcards based on points scored?

Our league does this and it has worked out well. It also reduces the impact of those years when a division is particularly easy or hard. Our league's #4 seed was a division winner that was 5-8. Seed #5 just happened to be in the same division as the #1 seed but #3 in total points.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Some of it is bad luck, no question...but in some cases, some of the losses come down to poor lineup decisions.

You're not going to lead your league in scoring if you're consistently making poor lineup decisions.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

When one of the best teams missed the playoffs, theres no justification to the title, if u ask me!

most points doesn't show the whole story....consistency is more important. A team might go off 2-3 weeks and score a lot of points, then throw in a few stinkers. A team that is consistent has a chance to win every week.

This is a very valid point. Hot and cold teams can rack up a ton of points in a handful of games, but not really be well balanced teams. How to offset? Throw out the high game and the low game?

 

[Buckna]

It happens fairly often. You could be in a tight league where one division is much stronger than another making your schedule harder. Your team may have gotten hot late in the season after your startoff was poor. Your team could be wildly inconsistent and score a ton of points in only a handful of games and below average in others.

Most of my dynasty leagues have switched to the last seed being based on total points or victory points.

 

[Chaka]

Happens all the time and is the principle flaw in H2H leagues.

H2H sucks because of this flaw and no amount of smack talk (the principle argument in favor of H2H) makes up for it.

 

[geoff8695]

Happens all the time and is the principle flaw in H2H leagues.H2H sucks because of this flaw and no amount of smack talk (the principle argument in favor of H2H) makes up for it.

This is why you should include a wildcard spot to top point scorer and tie breakers should include total points or all-play/breakdown records. You don't have to scrap head to head (which is a lot more fun than rotisserie style with or without any smack talk) to have a fun, fair, and competitive league.

 

[kncks12]

I was the most pts in 10 team league by 200 pts this year and was not in the playoffs. I have been trying to get a points wildcard for years but the guys want nothing to do with it.

In one of my leagues we have a pts wildcard and it is great . The best teams make the show.

 

[TheWick]

Victory Points is where its at

 

[Yenrub]

I am part of two leagues that use the same scoring system

One has been in place since 1996, the other since 2000

Only once in the combined 24 seasons has the #1 scoring team not made the playoffs

 

[Corey's Carnage]

We don't have a special spot for top scorer in our league, & I like it that way.

12 Teams, 6 make the playoffs, 3 divisions.

3 Division winners

3 Wildcards, Starting with best W-L records, then tiebreakers: Head to Head records, Head to Head Points Scored, Total Points scored.

 

[Chaka]

Happens all the time and is the principle flaw in H2H leagues.H2H sucks because of this flaw and no amount of smack talk (the principle argument in favor of H2H) makes up for it.

This is why you should include a wildcard spot to top point scorer and tie breakers should include total points or all-play/breakdown records. You don't have to scrap head to head (which is a lot more fun than rotisserie style with or without any smack talk) to have a fun, fair, and competitive league.

The high point wild card is a band-aid? What about the #2 scoring team etc.? Do they not deserve the same consideration when lesser teams are advancing in front of them because of the luck of the scheduling draw? These leagues are not so much fun for those getting hosed by luck, regardless of smack talk.If an H2H league somehow allows for a team to impact the scoring of their opponent through game day management (like defenses strive to impact offenses in the NFL) then I would absolutely support that format. Until I see such a system implemented I stand by the notion that H2H is a weak system that rewards luck over hard work. Using smack talk as a justification for employing an inferior system seems silly.And why do people assume that smack talk is the sole property of H2H leagues? If you have a good league the dialogue between owners takes care of itself regardless of format.

 

[One]

I won total points in 2 leagues...

14 man league: Lost 1st RD.

(had 60+ more pts than the next team)

12 man league: Didn't make the playoffs.

(had 90+ more pts than the next team)

/wrists

 

[One]

Some of it is bad luck, no question...but in some cases, some of the losses come down to poor lineup decisions.

You're not going to lead your league in scoring if you're consistently making poor lineup decisions.

+1. I had most pts. scored and most points scored against. Lost 5 games by less than 2. People just went off and beat me.I considered dropping fantasy football for good at one point. So fluky.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Some of it is bad luck, no question...but in some cases, some of the losses come down to poor lineup decisions.

You're not going to lead your league in scoring if you're consistently making poor lineup decisions.

+1. I had most pts. scored and most points scored against. Lost 5 games by less than 2. People just went off and beat me.I considered dropping fantasy football for good at one point. So fluky.

Even though I started this thread and feel luck can over shadow pure knowledge of whats going on, lets not take away from some of the owners who put themselves in position to win more often then not.That is where smack should really take place, if a team always contends and cant win the big one....are they a bad owner or just not lucky in the late weeks or at all....or have a good team but get screwed by benchings.To talk smack of owners cuz of luck, is not the best way to go...but if they continueously make bad moves, that is where the smack should come.And for the above....everything is based off points, so why should playoffs not be based off the same thing as well? Now I understand there are point leagues, but we should consider that as the norm and not w/l records.

 

[Project Mayhem]

Top points in one of my leagues this year did not make the playoffs but got eliminated on the third tiebreaker.

 

[Corey's Carnage]

H2H is what makes fantasy football great.

 

[Chaka]

Happens all the time and is the principle flaw in H2H leagues.H2H sucks because of this flaw and no amount of smack talk (the principle argument in favor of H2H) makes up for it.

I don't think smack talk is the principle argument in favor of H2H.The principle arguement in favor of H2H is that every week means something (just like real football). It makes the season a lot more interesting. H2H is what makes fantasy football great.

I didn't realize that every week doesn't mean something in other formats. Of course every week means something and all-play or total point formats don't preclude having a playoff.This isn't real football, in real football your team's defense has the ability to prevent your opponent from scoring. In H2H leagues your team's points against has every bit as much impact on your season as your team's points scored even though owners can only impact the latter and trust the former to the fates.If you play in an H2H format where you can impact your opponents ability to score against you it would be a much more viable system than current H2H formats.

 

[3 hour lunch]

Get over it Chong's!

Seriously though, you know it's not bad management. I had it happen to me last year in a different league. In that same league this year, 2 of the 3 lowest point totals were the top two playoff seeds. Your team will be good for a long time. I kind of equate it to poker, where if you took all of the luck away, all you'd be left with is sharks. Focus on the long term.

 

[FavreCo]

There is nothing more boring than a total points format where everyone is just sitting around watching incremental changes in the total points differentials every week. Imagine if the NFL adopted this format. Sorry, folks, no more W-L standings. We're going to award playoff teams based on Total Points Differential! The league would become the laughinstock of the sports world and would go under in a hurry due to lack of interest.

Add to it the fact that if you are a weaker team you can pack it in 1/2 way thru the season because you will lose ground weekly and of course inevitably quit even turning in a lineup. H-H you always have a chance.18 years and the points champ has made the playoffs every year.

 

[ScottNorwood]

I've actually done some calculations on this, and in a standard league this will happen 23.67% of the time

 

[Chaka]

There is nothing more boring than a total points format where everyone is just sitting around watching incremental changes in the total points differentials every week. Imagine if the NFL adopted this format. Sorry, folks, no more W-L standings. We're going to award playoff teams based on Total Points Differential! The league would become the laughinstock of the sports world and would go under in a hurry due to lack of interest.

As I said fantasy football is not real football.In no-money leagues H2H is fine but when you start putting money on the line H2H is horribly flawed.

 

[Topes]

I am curious as this just happened in one of my leagues and is the first time I have seen this in any of my leagues in my whole fantasy existance.Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?

It happens. It's bad luck, for the most part.

 

[Topes]

Total Points is lame.

Fairness is overrated.

 

[Chaka]

There is nothing more boring than a total points format where everyone is just sitting around watching incremental changes in the total points differentials every week. Imagine if the NFL adopted this format. Sorry, folks, no more W-L standings. We're going to award playoff teams based on Total Points Differential! The league would become the laughinstock of the sports world and would go under in a hurry due to lack of interest.

Add to it the fact that if you are a weaker team you can pack it in 1/2 way thru the season because you will lose ground weekly and of course inevitably quit even turning in a lineup. H-H you always have a chance.18 years and the points champ has made the playoffs every year.

There are weaker teams who quit in all formats. You can add incentives to correct this (e.g. bonus payouts for weekly high scores). But how do you correct for the inability to have any impact on your opponents scoring? The NFL does this with defenses, fantasy football does not have an analog.When points against has as much influence of making the playoffs as points scored there is a flaw in the system. In the NFL teams can be held responsible for points against, in fantasy football it is purely luck. This sucks when money is on the line.

 

[Mighty Ducks]

We don't have a special spot for top scorer in our league, & I like it that way.12 Teams, 6 make the playoffs, 3 divisions.3 Division winners3 Wildcards, Starting with best W-L records, then tiebreakers: Head to Head records, Head to Head Points Scored, Total Points scored.

This sounds similar to a local league I've played in for 10+ years. Seems that most people in this league will do anything other than consider points to determine playoff teams. All this BS about divisions, head to head tie-breakers, etc. amounts to nothing more than a glorified "fantasy coin flip" to determine the "best" team.The only thing that can be measured as far as fantasy prowess is in acquiring players (via drafting, waiver, trades) that score more points against a known scoring system than those players acquired by others. Everything else is random and determined largely on luck (was my score this week randomly compared to a score that was higher or lower?) than on player acquisition (read: fantasy owner) skills. So realistically the only true measure of fantasy skills is points scored.However, there is great interest in the H2H aspect of fantasy football. Probably relates to some repressed competitive drive we are trying satisfy. It also brings in a bunch of other ways to "win". I once proposed to my local league to have everyone set their lineups and count their scores each week BEFORE it was determined who they were playing against. We would then draw names AFTER the points were scored to determine the winners. My argument was that this is exactly the same as normal H2H because your lineup is set to score the most against the scoring system, not your opponents lineup. Of course this was shot down, with some owners actually trying to say that they set their lineups based on the lineups of their opponents (like in the real NFL!). After this experience I have given up the fight to try and reward fantasy skills in this local league because it is obvious that many of these people enjoy all these many ways to have "success" and most would not be competitive in a true points scored based league. I have expanded my fantasy games to include many other types of leagues that are more measured in points scored. I do still enjoy the local league for one reason: the draft held in person with the other owners. All my other games are online so they have no personal contact.

 

[FavreCo]

I've actually done some calculations on this, and in a standard league this will happen 23.67% of the time

Probably the main reason why it has never happened in our dynasty league is that hacks don't get points. You actually have to put up solid stats. You can't just pick up some bum of the week, start him, get 57 yards receiving and get 5 points - nope, you get zero. Our distance TD's make up for the lack of points for yardage (we give 3 pts for 75 yards, 6 points for 100 yards, etc). Hacks that can't squeeze out 75 yards get nothing for a day's work.

 

[FavreCo]

There is nothing more boring than a total points format where everyone is just sitting around watching incremental changes in the total points differentials every week. Imagine if the NFL adopted this format. Sorry, folks, no more W-L standings. We're going to award playoff teams based on Total Points Differential! The league would become the laughinstock of the sports world and would go under in a hurry due to lack of interest.

Add to it the fact that if you are a weaker team you can pack it in 1/2 way thru the season because you will lose ground weekly and of course inevitably quit even turning in a lineup. H-H you always have a chance.18 years and the points champ has made the playoffs every year.

There are weaker teams who quit in all formats. You can add incentives to correct this (e.g. bonus payouts for weekly high scores). But how do you correct for the inability to have any impact on your opponents scoring? The NFL does this with defenses, fantasy football does not have an analog.When points against has as much influence of making the playoffs as points scored there is a flaw in the system. In the NFL teams can be held responsible for points against, in fantasy football it is purely luck. This sucks when money is on the line.

Not in our league. We kick them out. I play defense. You don't come flying off the couch when your opponent's RB is hauling ### towards a big TD? No wonder they score so easily on you. I do and inevitably he gets tackled before he can score...unless his name is Chris Johnson. *******. That's called 'playing D'. 2-3 years ago, if I watched a kick on the big screen, you could virtually guarantee it was a miss. Solid D there. Even had other owners screaming change the channel those years when one of their kickers lined up for a try. I could make the best K miss. That's called 'playing D'.

In our league if you assemble a team that puts up big points, there is virtually no chance of losing enough games to not make the playoffs. It's a dynasty and I mean real dynasty. It can take years to go from the bottom to the top. We have some that just float around in the middle of the pack and make the playoffs once in a while. We have hack owners/coaches and then we have solid owner/coaches that are in the playoffs repeatedly. Just like the NFL.

 

[coolnerd]

I am still developing this take(i.e. I have no study or articles to support this), but the basic reason that elements of fantasy football which are luck dependant (H2H, kickers, etc) exist is because the majority of the population wants a game of BOTH skill and chance versus a pure contest of skill or game of chance. This is the reason that poker is more popular than a pure game of skill such as chess or pure games of chance like bingo.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Get over it Chong's! Seriously though, you know it's not bad management. I had it happen to me last year in a different league. In that same league this year, 2 of the 3 lowest point totals were the top two playoff seeds. Your team will be good for a long time. I kind of equate it to poker, where if you took all of the luck away, all you'd be left with is sharks. Focus on the long term.

Just discussion, I really have never seen this, much worse beint the guy who it happened to. lol

 

[Football Jones]

Things like this is why I believe hybrid H2H leagues are the future of FF. By hybrid H2H I mean reserving one or two playoff spots for total points (wildcards). That way, you get the best of both worlds.

 

[Genester]

I am just curious as this is the first time I have seen this in my fantasy existance.Does this happen often, and is it bad managment, bad luck, or league setup?

I run 2 leagues and in both I have the final wild card being the top point scorer that didn't make the playoffs via record. I don't know why you wouldn't do it anyway else.

We actually proposed this rule in one league at the beginning of this year and shut it down. Here's why: 2 years ago, in that same league, I won the total point championship with a record of 2-11 (we have a 13-game regular season, followed by 3 weeks of play-offs). Granted, I was horrendously unlucky with an average of almost 90 fantasy points per game against. Now, ask yourself a question, does a 2-11 team deserve to go to the play-offs? In my judgment, it does not, in a head-to-head format. What if my team was 2-11 and 1 point ahead of 7 other teams with better records, should I make the play-offs over them, because of something that's a statistical irrelevance? To illustrate, suppose you have an NFL team that scores 30ppg yet loses every game by 2-3 points, because its defense stinks. Should it make the play-offs also? "Them's the breaks" for a head-to-head format. If you want "better fairness", then go to a play-all format or play roto baseball I can only state that luck has an interesting way of evening itself out over then long haul.

 

[Genester]

I am still developing this take(i.e. I have no study or articles to support this), but the basic reason that elements of fantasy football which are luck dependant (H2H, kickers, etc) exist is because the majority of the population wants a game of BOTH skill and chance versus a pure contest of skill or game of chance. This is the reason that poker is more popular than a pure game of skill such as chess or pure games of chance like bingo.

I completely agree with your premise - I'd love to see more on this, if you ever come up with it One small correction on behalf of chess, its not pure skill, although it certainly is a dominant part of the game.

 

[Corey's Carnage]

This sounds similar to a local league I've played in for 10+ years. Seems that most people in this league will do anything other than consider points to determine playoff teams. All this BS about divisions, head to head tie-breakers, etc. amounts to nothing more than a glorified "fantasy coin flip" to determine the "best" team.

Since the inception of our league in '94, the high scorer has always made the playoffs, and is more often or not the #1 or #2 seed with the first round bye (#2 seed this year), so it all ends pretty much the same. The difference is the "fun factor", I think. Total points leagues are, in my humble opinion, boring; i won one last year, but winning my local H2H league last year was much more satisfying.

 

[Keith R]

Happened in my main league this year for only the 2nd time in 18 years. 4 make the playoffs out of 12, the owner in question finished 8-7 and lost out on the #4 seed to another 8-7 team on head-to-head. Knowing this guy, he very well might propose to change the rules to make sure it doesn't happen again, but I think my fellow owners will be less than receptive.

FWIW, I didn't benefit from this. I finished 6-9 for 11th place.

 

[Topes]

I am still developing this take(i.e. I have no study or articles to support this), but the basic reason that elements of fantasy football which are luck dependant (H2H, kickers, etc) exist is because the majority of the population wants a game of BOTH skill and chance versus a pure contest of skill or game of chance. This is the reason that poker is more popular than a pure game of skill such as chess or pure games of chance like bingo.

Right on the money. You don't need no studies of no steenking articles. Fairness this. Fairness that. There's way too much crying in fantasy football.

My oft-used retort is that the end result of the fairness crusade is points leagues. In this usage, points league is pejorative. Some folks don't get that. I don't get points leagues. I most certainly don't get why some points leagues have benches; it's inherently unfair. I completely fail to grasp why they have points, either. Points make baby Jesus cry. Can't everybody show up for the draft, drink a few beers, talk some football, get a gold star and go home? Sounds fair to me.

Fairness. Blag! Give me H2H any day of the week!

(Had Quinton Ganther run for 20 more yards in week fourteen, I'd have been points champ, and missed the playoffs this year. I almost regret that it didn't happen, as I'd have used that as a foil to combat whining in my league. Luckily, whining isn't a big problem in my league. Whiners are quitters.)

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Missing the playoffs for the points champion is a rare occurance, but in leagues that allow say only 6 out of 12 team into the playoffs I see it way more than say a 10 man league that lets in 8 playoff teams.

Just points leagues are boring and usually the total points champ gets a consolation prize anyway.

 

[Chaka]

Missing the playoffs for the points champion is a rare occurance, but in leagues that allow say only 6 out of 12 team into the playoffs I see it way more than say a 10 man league that lets in 8 playoff teams. Just points leagues are boring and usually the total points champ gets a consolation prize anyway.

6 of 12? 8 of 10? Seriously?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Missing the playoffs for the points champion is a rare occurance, but in leagues that allow say only 6 out of 12 team into the playoffs I see it way more than say a 10 man league that lets in 8 playoff teams. Just points leagues are boring and usually the total points champ gets a consolation prize anyway.

6 of 12? 8 of 10? Seriously?

6 out of 12 not enough? 8 out of 10 too much?I play in both styles, what the big deal?

 

[Chaka]

Missing the playoffs for the points champion is a rare occurance, but in leagues that allow say only 6 out of 12 team into the playoffs I see it way more than say a 10 man league that lets in 8 playoff teams. Just points leagues are boring and usually the total points champ gets a consolation prize anyway.

6 of 12? 8 of 10? Seriously?

6 out of 12 not enough? 8 out of 10 too much?I play in both styles, what the big deal?

Both are too much IMO.