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Political Forum Closed (1 Viewer)

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JIslander

Footballguy
Well, I highly doubt they make decisions based on any single poster.
I'm not saying any decision was made because of a poster. I'm not referring to the decision at all. Simply that information from this thread has made me reconsider my position about the conspiracy. No biggie.

Don't worry, Joe. I'm not going to call anyone out. She knows who she is. 😉
I knew it was @krista4 ! Nuthin but trouble :giggle:
 

(HULK)

(Smash)
Query: can threads be created in the FFA regarding current events?

I'll provide two examples in one so that my question demonstrates the neutrality in which I ask it. Example: Trump and/or Hillary are in the news because they are investigated by the FBI (or whatever notable federal agency) for mishandling top secret documents (whether that be by recklessly using a server or keeping the documents in a private domicile). The stories are, of course, notable or of national importance. Are threads about stories of national importance permitted?

I suppose maybe a less political example but nonetheless arguably "political" would be threads about Covid-related issues (e.g. a thread about which states have mask mandates or whatever) or maybe foreign conflicts (e.g. conflict between Ukraine and Russia). Are these types of threads permitted provide posters don't let the thread(s) devolve into political slap fighting?*


*Which, obviously, may happen.

For now, please let's say no.

Basically, any news involving a political person would be something we do not want there.

That may change in the future. But for now, please let's keep it completely political free.
I feel like this is going to be very difficult. Like, what about Kayne West. Guy has never run for office, but it'll be seen as political. Or Elon Musk. Basically, it's going to be VERY hard to effectively draw a line and you're going to get a lot of line steppers testing things.

The nice thing about the PSF was, if there was any remote political connection, just put it in the PSF. Now... I dunno. For everyone's sake I hope the FFA stays pure but I am highly skeptical that it will.
 

Zow

Footballguy
More time to stop out the humor and fun in the rest of the threads 👍

A poster was suspended yesterday in the FFA for talking about having sex with a woman as "riding her like a scooter". If that's the "humor" and "fun" you're looking for, we're not the forum for you.
I thought that was a one-off, extreme suspension because someone was having a bad day. I guess not. You hear much much worse expressions than that in PG movies.
Holy smokes how does anyone last here?
I've been here a long time, having received some suspensions of my own (at least one of which was for crossing the line on some sex talk). The mods here have been pretty consistent over the years that any sex talk needs to be super tame (back in my dating threads days we just used symbols and very tame references that weren't at all degrading). When I saw the quote that got the poster suspended, I wasn't surprised.
 

(HULK)

(Smash)
Rumor has it Elon is thinking about buying Footballguys.com next - say it ain’t so!

Understand and respect why this decision was made. Now about the reason this thread was put into the ‘Looking for Leagues’ sub-forum…aren’t those people suffering enough?
I'm sure Joe has his price and probably wouldn't mind riding off into the sunset filled with boats and BBQ and just enjoying football for the game itself again.
 

(HULK)

(Smash)
More time to stop out the humor and fun in the rest of the threads 👍

A poster was suspended yesterday in the FFA for talking about having sex with a woman as "riding her like a scooter". If that's the "humor" and "fun" you're looking for, we're not the forum for you.
I thought that was a one-off, extreme suspension because someone was having a bad day. I guess not. You hear much much worse expressions than that in PG movies.
Holy smokes how does anyone last here?
I've been here a long time, having received some suspensions of my own (at least one of which was for crossing the line on some sex talk). The mods here have been pretty consistent over the years that any sex talk needs to be super tame (back in my dating threads days we just used symbols and very tame references that weren't at all degrading). When I saw the quote that got the poster suspended, I wasn't surprised.
I've never been suspended!

I think I've had some posts erased a couple of times though.
 

Captain Cranks

Footballguy
I have since reconsidered that idea, and now think that the key to good discussions is making copious use of the ignore function. By shutting the PSF down, we are essentially forcing everybody in that forum to put everybody else in that forum on ignore. This is a decent solution, but arguably goes a little far. If we ever open the PSF back up, I would propose this rule: Anytime someone comments about another poster instead of commenting about the topic at hand, that person shall be forced to permanently ignore the poster they commented about. In my fantasy, that would solve the issue and we'd all live happily ever after. (Maybe we'll never know, and maybe that's for the best.)

I don't think this solves the larger problem of broad, generalized swipes at the other side. Even you have been labeled and demonized as a left wing radical on this board.
 

jon_mx

Footballguy
I am probably the villian in many people's eyes. My posts draw out more toxicity than any other poster and I don't shy away from responding. I may have been the only person defending Kavanaugh early on and was ruthlessly attacked for it. But that view probably represented 40 percent of the population.
I voice a lot of views which many people in here find repulsive, but imho they are principled in justice and equality. Should that opinion not be voiced in order to create harmony? I think not. As much as I hate the politics of the left as they go against the core values I believe are necessary for a fair and justice system of governance, I don't hold things personally against a poster. I have voiced the opinion many times that it is the personalization that is the real problem in political discourse. But many in here take my rants against leftist ideology as personal. I disagree that it is, but that is how it is taken.
I don't have a solution. But I don't think this current direction where 40 percent of the population have opinions must be silenced is healthy. I see the whole war on 'disinformation' and 'hate' as means to silence a large part of the population. As much as the PSF was a good attempt, there is such intolerance in the current political environment that makes it impossible to civilly discuss issues. You can see it every day on our college campuses when conservative speaker tries to talk.
 

GoBirds

Footballguy
I am probably the villian in many people's eyes. My posts draw out more toxicity than any other poster and I don't shy away from responding. I may have been the only person defending Kavanaugh early on and was ruthlessly attacked for it. But that view probably represented 40 percent of the population.
I voice a lot of views which many people in here find repulsive, but imho they are principled in justice and equality. Should that opinion not be voiced in order to create harmony? I think not. As much as I hate the politics of the left as they go against the core values I believe are necessary for a fair and justice system of governance, I don't hold things personally against a poster. I have voiced the opinion many times that it is the personalization that is the real problem in political discourse. But many in here take my rants against leftist ideology as personal. I disagree that it is, but that is how it is taken.
I don't have a solution. But I don't think this current direction where 40 percent of the population have opinions must be silenced is healthy. I see the whole war on 'disinformation' and 'hate' as means to silence a large part of the population. As much as the PSF was a good attempt, there is such intolerance in the current political environment that makes it impossible to civilly discuss issues. You can see it every day on our college campuses when conservative speaker tries to talk.
Not the villain at all my friend, just in a minority here that was rarely treated fairly. Always appreciated reading your opinions. 👍
 
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GordonGekko

Footballguy
It was the ones that claimed it was a bubble/echo chamber that typically had the adversarial style posting that are pumping their first now that it's gone.

I don't see much cheering that it's closed. I think there are several people who thought it was the right move.

Yes, they are patting you in the back for doing as they wanted. Great job.


Have you considered that without the added and unnecessary stress point of the PSF's existence, that @Joe Bryant now has the opportunity to use that time for self care, taking care of his physical, mental and emotional well being?

Because Joe has posted before, openly and multiple times and even a large thread just 3-4 weeks ago, that the existence of the PSF and it's toxicity has created harm to his emotional and mental wellness. I don't point that out as some kind of judgement, but just stating the reality on the ground. It's not like his discussion of ending the PSF wasn't talked about extensively before and in the open. He gave everyone due notice that the PSF was on a razor's edge and some of the same people kept up their same toxic routines. What exactly did they think was going to happen here?

My viewpoint is every single person here right now in this thread, who is attempting to game or inch or workaround a way to get politics back on the table ( and yes, even inexplicably another Staff member is doing it too in this thread) are also advocating, knowingly or unknowingly, for a "reboot" of a pathway that makes Joe suffer.

I don't agree with everything I've seen Joe do or has said in the past, but I don't want to see him suffer.

Is whatever routine senseless PSF partisan slap fighting and the same toxicity going to be worth punishing Joe Bryant over it? Can some people be any more selfish?

Here's a crazy thought - He's made his decision. Everyone here should respect it and move on. And then everyone should want him to focus on his wellness and self care above all else.
 

Rubiobot

Footballguy
Although I have not been here as much as I was a few months ago, I'm sorry to see the forum go. While there was some deep lines drawn between posters, and I have my own biasis and ideas on tipocs, it was good to know that I could come here and see the opposite view and sometimes it blunted mine.

I've said many times, one reason I think we are as divided as we are is b/c social media has forced us into silos of similar information. Go on anyone's SM feed and you can clearly see what side they are on....and there is nothing from the other. This is soooo bad IMO b/c we are physically choking out voices that make us think. Soon we are just parroting the same talking points, idiotic memes and doubling down on falsehoods.

At least here I could get a well rounded view of things and there have been times when I wanted to post with my dead-set ideas, only to step back and rethink things after reading a few posts. Also, I can only speak for myself, the fact that many of us have been on these boards for years, and converse with each other on normal life FFA topics, that while we may be politically opposed, I still saw them as normal people that I could have a beer with and help plan a Disney vacation for. Unlike other forms of SM where "they" are just an avatar and not a real person. I know @The Commish and I have had a few debates, but in the end, we can high five, agree to disagree and move on. Likewise, I never felt threatened for my opinions here and IMO even safer expressing them here than in the real world.

I know we are a very small community here, but my fear of closing these forums will further push people into deeper echo chambers where only their side's talking points are reinforced. No disrespect to @Maurile Tremblay but the post above is providing either left or right-leaning outlets. I get it, but I found this forum the best place to read and digest both sides, providing you came in with some open-mindedness.

Overall, this is just another casualty of our current society and makes me even madder that our gov't has us in such a state.
:goodposting:
I can't possibly give enough good posts for the above.
 

Rubiobot

Footballguy
My viewpoint is every single person here right now in this thread, who is attempting to game or inch or workaround a way to get politics back on the table ( and yes, even inexplicably another Staff member is doing it too in this thread) are also advocating, knowingly or unknowingly, for a "reboot" of a pathway that makes Joe suffer.
Maybe some people that liked discussing politics want the PSF to come back in a less toxic way that does NOT make Joe suffer. I don't know if it's even possible but I certainly don't want Joe to suffer given that he provides all of the forums for free to all of us. But I like the political discussions and I learned a ton from the PSF, and a lot came from people on the other side of the political spectrum. Frankly I will miss that but I respect Joe's decision.

Laying a guilt trip on people is wrong. As far as I'm concerned most of us have good intentions.
 

Dan Lambskin

Footballguy
Ask yourself this, did you come out of the political forum in a better mood than when you ventured in?

I didn’t.

Sums my feeling up perfectly. I used to come in and get updates on current events but as time went on I just felt myself getting angrier and angrier every time I visited. It wasn’t because of a different viewpoint but more so how everyone treated each other. You’d read pages of negative comments back and forth and then get sucked into the negativity

Then I’d go jump on the werewolf board and find I was getting run up for some stupid reason and get even more pissed off
 

Rubiobot

Footballguy
Maybe some people that liked discussing politics want the PSF to come back in a less toxic way that does NOT make Joe suffer. I don't know if it's even possible but I certainly don't want Joe to suffer given that he provides all of the forums for free to all of us. But I like the political discussions and I learned a ton from the PSF, and a lot came from people on the other side of the political spectrum. Frankly I will miss that but I respect Joe's decision.

Laying a guilt trip on people is wrong. As far as I'm concerned most of us have good intentions.
I'm quoting my own post to add a message that I sent to Joe earlier and before I knew about this thread. It is below:

Hi Joe,

I just want to say I think you did what you thought was best. I don't think your decision is political. I did get a lot of my news there but it has been too toxic lately. I would have done the same. Too many people crossed the line and I think the upcoming election is a big reason. It sucks but I don't think you had a choice.

Thanks for all you do to provide us free forums.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Dang I liked the Florida Poltics thread the rest I could live without.
Oh no, that hadn't occurred to me! I loved that thread, too. Nicest thread in the PSF by a mile (which isn't saying a whole lot, but still).

Occasionally some of the PSF "regulars" would wander in and try to stir up trouble, but everyone had the good sense not to engage with them. In fact, I would often "respond" by posting something super boring and parochial in an effort to convince them it wasn't worth wasting time there.

Maybe we can start a "Living in Florida" thread in the FFA where we can all still hang out. We'll dispense with all the political stuff but we can still give each other advice on home insurance, spiny lobster fishing, etc.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Somewhat ironically, I was just thinking the other day that I felt like I had found my balance in the Politics Forum recently. I mostly tried to stay out of the more contentious threads (read: anything dealing with Trump) and wasn't engaging with the posters I disliked the most, since it didn't make me feel good. I even found myself reaching common ground with some posters I disagreed with (@BladeRunner, for one).

All that said, I still agree with this decision. For one thing, I was still probably wasting too much time in the Politics Forum. Maybe that means I'll channel more of that time into the Shark Pool/FFA, or better yet, log off and do something more productive offline (hey, a guy can dream!)

But I think the bigger issue is that, at the aggregate level, contentious forums where people spend a lot of time yelling at each other are Bad for America. Sure, the Politics Forum's contribution to the decline in our level of discourse pales in comparison to, say, social media or cable shoutfests. But it has the same ultimate effect.
 
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The Commish

Footballguy
Dang I liked the Florida Poltics thread the rest I could live without.
Oh no, that hadn't occurred to me! I loved that thread, too. Nicest thread in the PSF by a mile (which isn't saying a whole lot, but still).

Occasionally some of the PSF "regulars" would wander in and try to stir up trouble, but everyone had the good sense not to engage with them. In fact, I would often "respond" by posting something super boring and parochial in an effort to convince them it wasn't worth wasting time there.

Maybe we can start a "Living in Florida" thread in the FFA where we can all still hang out. We'll dispense with all the political stuff but we can still give each other advice on home insurance, spiny lobster fishing, etc.
This is the frustrating part. These boards are exactly what you want them to be 90% of the time. A lesson I probably learned a little too late. Things were pretty different for me once I started choosing differently. I found rustycolts and glvsav37 and others as a result.
 

Scoresman

Footballguy

dickey moe

Fingerpicker
Query: can threads be created in the FFA regarding current events?

I'll provide two examples in one so that my question demonstrates the neutrality in which I ask it. Example: Trump and/or Hillary are in the news because they are investigated by the FBI (or whatever notable federal agency) for mishandling top secret documents (whether that be by recklessly using a server or keeping the documents in a private domicile). The stories are, of course, notable or of national importance. Are threads about stories of national importance permitted?

I suppose maybe a less political example but nonetheless arguably "political" would be threads about Covid-related issues (e.g. a thread about which states have mask mandates or whatever) or maybe foreign conflicts (e.g. conflict between Ukraine and Russia). Are these types of threads permitted provide posters don't let the thread(s) devolve into political slap fighting?*


*Which, obviously, may happen.

For now, please let's say no.

Basically, any news involving a political person would be something we do not want there.

That may change in the future. But for now, please let's keep it completely political free.
I feel like this is going to be very difficult. Like, what about Kayne West. Guy has never run for office, but it'll be seen as political. Or Elon Musk. Basically, it's going to be VERY hard to effectively draw a line and you're going to get a lot of line steppers testing things.

The nice thing about the PSF was, if there was any remote political connection, just put it in the PSF. Now... I dunno. For everyone's sake I hope the FFA stays pure but I am highly skeptical that it will.
Yes, this is the slippery slope that won't be easily navigated. A lot of posters may end up getting suspended for posting something that may have some tangential political relevance without the intent of doing so. And there may be certain topics in the FFA that would be highly educational but now suddenly off-limits.
Why can't people use the Political Forum and put those on ignore who they don't want to hear from? I don't see what's so difficult about that?
 

rustycolts

Footballguy
So I think it's pretty easy to start a subreddit. I go over there because I masochisticly follow Orlando City. Also some fishing stuff. Maybe have a link that says if you must discuss politics go here. At least for Florida Politics I'd check it out.
 

Juxtatarot

Footballguy
I never believed in a “conspiracy” to have the forum shut down but I do believe there were posters that knowingly provided toxic content over and over again and didn’t care. At a minimum, they were purposely not being part of the solution. I know that there are lots of people who are just rude people either by nature or by their upbringing. Sometimes they don’t even realize how they come across. However, my guess is that wasn’t the norm for the forum.
 

turnjose7

Footballguy
We had countless opportunities to be civil. We had countless opportunities to be excellent. We had countless opportunities to be better. As a collective, we squandered those opportunities. Joe is a nice guy who wants his legacy to be a positive one in the world. I’m sure the vitriol, acrimony and ugliness of the PSF weighed on him. Let’s now all do our best to protect the FFA and what it means to the folks who post here.

Joe's legacy is positive and I would argue the PSF is a big part of that. For all the criticism of it, I agree with those who believe that it was much more civil than most places in which such diverse viewpoints are represented. And it was a great source of news. I subscribe to several of the resources Maurile posted and there is value in reading a deeply sourced and well-researched article in those resources. I think there is also a ton of value in a back-and-forth discussion with one party responding directly to another, and the PSF was certainly MUCH better for that than the alternatives that I may now need to consider (like lesser forums, social media, or---shudder---cable news shows).

Anyway, Joe, thanks for supporting this for so long. I am a better person for the existence of the PSF. I am certainly more informed than I otherwise would be, and over the years, arguments in the forum led me to change my position on several issues in a way that (I think) made me better. If that isn't a positive legacy I don't know what is, so appreciate you making this possible for many years.
 
Sometimes they don’t even realize how they come across. However, my guess is that wasn’t the norm for the forum.
I think not realizing how one comes across is simply a "feature" of posting to a forum filled with strangers that don't necessarily know you or get you. When your posting about stuff people care passionately about that just makes it worse.
 

squistion

Footballguy
I have been laughing all day how appropriate it is and sums up how the subject of politics has been handled on this site by having this thread being posted in the Looking For Leagues forum. :lol:
 

JIslander

Footballguy
Dang I liked the Florida Poltics thread the rest I could live without.
Oh no, that hadn't occurred to me! I loved that thread, too. Nicest thread in the PSF by a mile (which isn't saying a whole lot, but still).

Occasionally some of the PSF "regulars" would wander in and try to stir up trouble, but everyone had the good sense not to engage with them. In fact, I would often "respond" by posting something super boring and parochial in an effort to convince them it wasn't worth wasting time there.

Maybe we can start a "Living in Florida" thread in the FFA where we can all still hang out. We'll dispense with all the political stuff but we can still give each other advice on home insurance, spiny lobster fishing, etc.
As a new resident, I'm all for this.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I never believed in a “conspiracy” to have the forum shut down but I do believe there were posters that knowingly provided toxic content over and over again and didn’t care. At a minimum, they were purposely not being part of the solution. I know that there are lots of people who are just rude people either by nature or by their upbringing. Sometimes they don’t even realize how they come across. However, my guess is that wasn’t the norm for the forum.
On the one hand, I agree that if the moderators had gone in and given permabans to a few particularly bad apples it would have made a huge difference. But I also think there was a cumulative effect of all the negativity from otherwise "good" posters, or at least people who meant well. Someone started a thread to the effect of, if you come across your forum posts in 2060, will you be proud of your contributions. I don't think I ever responded, but thinking about it, the one thing I wouldn't be proud of was any posts where I dunked on another poster just for yuks. Maybe some of them were funny, maybe some of the people deserved it, but in retrospect, it dragged the level of discourse down. A bunch of those "small" decisions ended up having an outsized impact
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Somewhat ironically, I was just thinking the other day that I felt like I had found my balance in the Politics Forum recently. I mostly tried to stay out of the more contentious threads (read: anything dealing with Trump) and wasn't engaging with the posters I disliked the most, since it didn't make me feel good. I even found myself reaching common ground with some posters I disagreed with (@BladeRunner, for one).

All that said, I still agree with this decision. For one thing, I was still probably wasting too much time in the Politics Forum. Maybe that means I'll channel more of that time into the Shark Pool/FFA, or better yet, log off and do something more productive offline (hey, a guy can dream!)

But I think the bigger issue is that, at the aggregate level, contentious forums where people spend a lot of time yelling at each other are Bad for America. Sure, the Politics Forum's contribution to the decline in our level of discourse pales in comparison to, say, social media or cable shoutfests. But it has the same ultimate effect.
By the way, BR, I hope this latest unpleasantness won't dim your support for my nascent presidential campaign. You're my biggest supporter! OK, fine, you're my only supporter; I myself remain undecided. But I do know it's important to defeat that scallywag @dkp993
 

The Z Machine

Footballguy
. I doubt if hardly gets a few now as people rarely post political there and Joe just posted a pinned warning.
I guess we’ll see but I’m skeptical. There’s a national election in less than two weeks. It’ll be the lead story in every newspaper, website and news program of the country. People are going to want to talk about it.
Yeah, please tell me where you end up and I hope it's not Twitter or Facebook.
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Yes, this is the slippery slope that won't be easily navigated. A lot of posters may end up getting suspended for posting something that may have some tangential political relevance without the intent of doing so. And there may be certain topics in the FFA that would be highly educational but now suddenly off-limits.
Why can't people use the Political Forum and put those on ignore who they don't want to hear from? I don't see what's so difficult about that?


People will learn to adapt. Or they won't and will get purged out. That's a life concept, not just one about politics and not just one about the forums here. There was no PSF before and people figured it out once before, they'll figure it out again. Or if they refuse to or can't, they'll likely get clipped. The limping gazelle in the back of the pack is always on the menu.

You ask an interesting question about using the "Ignore Button", I have an interesting question in return -

https://invisioncommunity.com/buy/buy/

^ If there are elements here whom want a dedicated forum for political discussion in a framework they want, need and pleases them, then what's stopping them from working on, building up and paying for their own forum community that achieves that for them?

Over the last two years, I was asked MANY times in the PSF why I didn't post about different topics that some critics would have liked better. Usually it wasn't a question. It was typically an accusation and a free jab because they never actually discussed the actual topic within the thread I had created. And my thread topics were never cheap, some people might not have liked my viewpoints or my structure or my formatting, but no one is going to accuse me of being lazy or posting cheap. There was plenty there to discuss if people wanted to actually engage in some aspect of the topic.

How did I respond? I said start a new top level thread topic, support it and invest in it, detail it out with sourcing and raising the level of discussion with it, then "ping" me and invite me into the topic and let me know what aspect of it that they would want to discuss and I would help to support that thread. And, while in other topics, I didn't dogmatically answer everything asked of me in the PSF, many times, even with those who don't share my political viewpoints, when I felt I was being asked a fair question in good faith, I made it a point to attempt to give a thought out substantive leveled up answer in return. And I pointed out - Why would that be a bad thing? If more people are starting thread topics and investing in practical current complex political discussion that enriches the overall community?

How many people took me up on that offer? No one. Not a single person. Zero.

Because most people who complain all the time are lazy. It's built within that laziness to be ungrateful. If many of the long time bad faith actors in the PSF actually had to pay for the bandwidth, deal with updates, roll overs, administration, disputes, content creation, etc, etc, then odds are they wouldn't be the same bad faith actors for very long. Sweat equity has a consistent but powerful impact on creating humility.

Many people here are parents, so they know the drill. Even I had to deal with it with my godson in his teen years. The same conversation every parent has at some point - "If you want to live your way, do your own thing, have your own "freedom", make your own rules, then move out and pay your own rent and pay your own bills. It's not all the fun and games as you think it will be."

Same situation applies here. You want a new PSF cooked your way, with your desires, with your tone and culture and all that? No one is stopping you. Or anyone else.

The weight of your words, anyone here, and in any community that is predominately male, is based on the value you bring. I said this all the way back in 2006. The more value you present, the more your contributions are seen as essential, the more you are seen as an asset, then the more your sway will hold with people who make decisions.

I'm not going to tell other people to go start their own thread topics and support them, if I don't do that myself. But I do and I did. Extensively so. I never, not once, ever asked any of my Conservative brothers here in the PSF to do a single damn thing that I wasn't already doing myself as an example, for better or worse.

If I wanted the PSF back ( I don't, but let's say I did), I wouldn't complain about it. I would go into the Shark Pool and post at a level that created so much value, so much buzz and generated so many wins for people, and would create so many new subscribers for FBG as a business and a brand that any concerns I had would get moved to the top of the list. I wouldn't ask Joe Bryant to bring the PSF back. I'd get someone like The Rock to mention FBG in his social media platforms for a month, and when FBGs gets 15 thousand new subscribers in the first 72 hours, then at some point, someone here will ask me what I want to keep me invested in the success of this brand.

For those of you who want Joe Bryant to give you something ( the PSF has NOTHING to do with fantasy nor the NFL nor winning leagues/daily/dynasty) , what are you offering in return?

The same small group of toxic bad faith actors here who abused Joe's generosity and wasted the opportunity to help create that "Grantland" type political hub are usually the same people who feel entitled to have a non essential forum catered to them.

I'll tell you what I told my godson as a teenager - If you want to eat peanut butter cups for dinner every night and not take out the trash, then move out and pay your own rent.

I find it completely disturbing that I'm practically the only one here pointing out that the full and permanent removal of the PSF will likely have a positive impact on Joe Bryant's well being and self care. And how that's a good thing if it protects Joe. How about folks focus on that for a while and less about what is not being catered to them?
 
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