Poll - Thoughts On Company Vaccine Mandate? (3 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

I asked a bit here about how the Company Vaccine Mandate will work. https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/801268-vaccine-mandate-for-companies-how-will-it-work/

Seems like basically, companies with 100+ employees will be required to prove their in office employees are either fully vaccinated or have passed a weekly COVID test.

The responsibility will be on the employer. The employer will then do what they feel is right to motivate the employee. 

There are large fines if the employee doesn't comply. 

What's your take on the government mandating employers to require employees be vaccinated or tested weekly?

 

[supermike80]

I am against it.  I think it's governmental overreach.   

 

[sho nuff]

I am against mandating this to companies.  Government should not be telling them what to do here.

Exception for those accepting government funds...then I can see it a bit more.  But just the standard private business....I disagree with this step.

 

[RCon]

Not strong enough.  The weekly testing out makes it close to worthless.

 

[yak651]

It’s going to get interesting how my company handles this. Well over 100 employees so fall in the mandate. Since this spring “rule” has been if you are vaccinated you don’t have to mask up. That being the case it’s on the honor system, no proof required. There are about 2 people wearing mask and I know for fact many are not vaccinated and not wearing mask, including some in supervisor and management positions. With new rules will they be required to show proof? Email has come out with notice the company will abide by the mandate but more to come in the upcoming weeks. Want to see how they handle employees that have broken the rules when one of our core values is honesty…What are they going to do with these employees, look the other way…in some ways mirrors the AR12 saga….

 

[The Commish]

I struggle to even call this a mandate. People have a choice. 

 

[dkp993]

Pretty strongly against.  

If this vaccine was like the measles or Polio vaccines and could eradicate this from our society through stopping transmission then I’d likely be far more supportive of it.  But as that isn’t the case here, so I believe the government over-reach with this is a very slippery slope.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Not strong enough.  The weekly testing out makes it close to worthless.

Can you please elaborate more on this and why you think you it's close to worthless?

 

[RCon]

Can you please elaborate more on this and why you think you it's close to worthless?

Seems fairly self-explanatory, no?  If weekly tests allow one to opt out, all the anti-vaxxers, the very people that need to be coerced by a mandate in the first place, will simply opt out.  It's basically the equivalent of "everyone has to get vaxxed unless they don't want to".  The entire point of the mandate is to get more people vaxxed, in order to help ensure public safety.

Weekly tests aren't worth much, given that we know COVID can be spread asymptomatically.  Take a test Monday, get infected Tuesday, spread COVID for the next several days; defeats the purpose.  If it was daily and the employee was mandated to pay for the testing, I'd be more on board.  As is, I don't see the point at all.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Seems fairly self-explanatory, no? 

I don't have time to ask questions that are self explanatory. Thanks. If you don't want to discuss or elaborate, don't. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I went from "slightly for" a month or so ago to "slightly against" now.  IMO, covid-19 just isn't a big enough deal to warrant this kind of violation of personal autonomy.  I would support a vaccine mandate against a more dangerous illness, but covid-19 doesn't qualify.  Admittedly, it's a close call and I can see where a person might feel that covid is just dangerous enough to justify this policy.

 

[Rubiobot]

I went from "slightly for" a month or so ago to "slightly against" now.  IMO, covid-19 just isn't a big enough deal to warrant this kind of violation of personal autonomy.  I would support a vaccine mandate against a more dangerous illness, but covid-19 doesn't qualify.  Admittedly, it's a close call and I can see where a person might feel that covid is just dangerous enough to justify this policy.

This is pretty much my opinion too. I also think this mandate will cause even more division and thats the last thing we need. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I’m strongly in favor as I’m getting paid #####!!!!

 

[Amonra]

Strongly against, for reasons stated above...   

There's the slippery slope argument here as well. If this is allowed, where does it end?  What else can the government start making mandates for?

 

[squistion]

I am strongly in favor of it as there are people who have been vaccinated but still can have serious health issues if infected with the virus and need to be protected (see Colin Powell). 

Meanwhile, I found this interesting:

The Daily Beast@thedailybeast 20h

Newsmax told its staff Thursday it intended to comply with the Biden administration’s company vaccine mandate, flying in the face of its daily programming attacking the mandate.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/newsmax-to-implement-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-after-weeks-of-attacking-vaccine-mandates?via=twitter_page

 

[Juxtatarot]

Strongly in favor. Government has a responsibility to protect its citizens.

 

[John123]

The mandate is being implemented under the guise of it being an emergency.  However, if this was such an emergency the time frame between when it was announced and when it goes in to effect wouldn't be 5 months.  That time frame alone suggests it's not an emergency.  In fact, cases and deaths are going down.  We don't even know how much of an issue Covid will be come January when this goes in to effect.

Also, a court issued a stay of the mandate today:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2021/11/06/vaccine-mandate-biden-osha-halted-federal-appeals-court-larger-businesses/6320217001/

 

[Philo Beddoe]

A mandate isn’t law. It’s when 2 dudes go to dinner.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Looks like the results are an inverted bell curve.

 

[FBG26]

Serious question that I spent all of 10 seconds Googling and didn't immediately see a result: does OSHA require vaccination for any other diseases? Maybe just certain industries (eg health care)? I've never been asked for proof of vaccination outside of school years ago.

I have mixed emotions. If I was convinced a vaccine was safe (and I am for Covid), I have no problems with schools requiring vaccination. I think a vaccine mandate is probably legal (with the 30 seconds I've spent thinking about it). But I still hesitate to require employers to require a vaccine/testing regime. I'm worried that, especially in some industries/locales, an employer could lose tons of employees if they actually enforce the mandate. I'm thinking any decent sized company in a rural area, or the construction industry, or other locale/industry that may be more likely to have a large percentage of its workforce that is not onboard with a vaccine requirment/testing, especially with how covid has been politicized. And if an employer doesn't enforce a vaccine/testing, I'm worried that would open up the employer to a lawsuit if somebody catches a disease at work. I see it as a no-win scenario. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Voted strongly against and very pleasantly surprised that response has so many votes.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

the very people that need to be coerced  

Just seems so odd to me that such things can be stated so casually in America.

 

[RCon]

Just seems so odd to me that such things can be stated so casually in America.

Huh.  Seems odd to me that people don't see we've been coercing people without issue in America for decades.  Vaccine mandates in schools are a perfect example.  What do you think tax deductions for mortgage interest are?  Our tax code is practically a primer on coercing.  What do you think seat belt laws and motorcycle helmet laws are?  What do you think bike helmet rules for kids are?  How are these different?  What do you think nudity laws are?  This isn't new.  This isn't different.  This is the same old, same old, only this time the MAGA crowd has its panties in a twist for some reason.

 

[popeye]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

 

[RCon]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

How does that view match up against your view of vaccine mandates in public schools (and the military, and many private colleges, among others)?

 

[Joe Bryant]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

FWIW, I know a ton of people who feel exactly like this. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is the same old, same old, only this time the MAGA crowd has its panties in a twist for some reason.

I know it's fun to paint this as a MAGA thing and throw in the panties in a bunch little slap, but in my experience, that's not accurate. I know lots of people who'd absolutely not be in that characterization who have questions or are opposed to the mandate. Both from the personal freedom angle and also from the burden to small businesses angle. 

 

[crackattack]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

This

 

[supermike80]

How does that view match up against your view of vaccine mandates in public schools (and the military, and many private colleges, among others)?

My father in law, as anti Trump as you can possibly imagine, always had issues with how quickly the vaccine was produced.   He eventually got the shots but his concern was real and important.  And NOT cause of MAGA.   Even though he eventually got the vax, I don't feel its right for the government to force it on him like that.

And all your other examples, which are the usual tired arguments, at least give you a choice.  You don't have to go to public school, or join the military or go to colleges.  That's a choice.  Not to mention these options give you the ability to make this decision prior to joining. Now the government is sanctioning firing you for not sticking a foreign substance in your body?   No one was told this was going to be a requirement when they took the jobs...at least not until recently.  It's utter garbage.

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't think they are necessary at this point now that vaccines have been approved for children.  Vaccines are readily available to all that want it and for those that don't, well that's on them.   

I do think they should be mandatory for people working in nursing homes and medical facilities however.

 

[sho nuff]

How does that view match up against your view of vaccine mandates in public schools (and the military, and many private colleges, among others)?

Government run vs. private business for the most part.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Huh.  Seems odd to me that people don't see we've been coercing people without issue in America for decades.  Vaccine mandates in schools are a perfect example.  What do you think tax deductions for mortgage interest are?  Our tax code is practically a primer on coercing.  What do you think seat belt laws and motorcycle helmet laws are?  What do you think bike helmet rules for kids are?  How are these different?  What do you think nudity laws are?  This isn't new.  This isn't different.  This is the same old, same old, only this time the MAGA crowd has its panties in a twist for some reason.

Wait -- what?

 

[RCon]

Wait -- what?

It has been argued for years that one of the justifications for the tax deduction on mortgage interest is because it will encourage home ownership, an outcome that is "good for society".  Even if one doesn't believe that, the fact is that the very existence of the deduction creates a government-sponsored incentive for people to act in a certain way, or, put another way, a coercion.  As mentioned, the entire tax code is a primer on incentives, or coercion.

You'll no doubt argue that the level of coercion in the tax code doesn't rise to the same level as a vaccine mandate, and I would agree.  My point is simply that American government has been coercing people for decades with nary a peep.

 

[RCon]

I know it's fun to paint this as a MAGA thing and throw in the panties in a bunch little slap, but in my experience, that's not accurate. I know lots of people who'd absolutely not be in that characterization who have questions or are opposed to the mandate. Both from the personal freedom angle and also from the burden to small businesses angle. 

@Joe Bryant - No, not all opposed are part of the MAGA crowd, but the Venn diagram circle for MAGA fits entirely inside the circle for opposed, and they are the loudest ones screaming against it.  That said, I'd love to hear from someone, anyone, how this is different than the vaccine mandates that have existed for decades.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I am vaccinated myself, my family is vaccinated but I against a mandate.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Maybe we can set up vax and no vax sections in planes, restaurants, gyms, etc.

 

[Summer Wheat]

@Joe Bryant - No, not all opposed are part of the MAGA crowd, but the Venn diagram circle for MAGA fits entirely inside the circle for opposed, and they are the loudest ones screaming against it.  That said, I'd love to hear from someone, anyone, how this is different than the vaccine mandates that have existed for decades.

Trump was a driving force getting a vaccine to us in record time, Trump is also vaccinated.  So it is puzzling the so called MAGA crowd would be against vaccines.

We have friends who will not get vaccinated and they are as far left as you can get.  They just think it is their body, their choice.  And I agree with them and Aaron Rodgers. Kyrie Irving..or whoever makes that choice.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I got vax early also-my choice. My concern is we have gone from initial two shots but now need a booster because the initial two shots effectiveness weakens...for vaccines that are still experimental. Natural immunity if you had Covid doesn't count. Do the boosters effectiveness weaken after another 6 months? Will wait on the booster(s). Total overreach by progressives.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It has been argued for years that one of the justifications for the tax deduction on mortgage interest is because it will encourage home ownership, an outcome that is "good for society".  Even if one doesn't believe that, the fact is that the very existence of the deduction creates a government-sponsored incentive for people to act in a certain way, or, put another way, a coercion.  As mentioned, the entire tax code is a primer on incentives, or coercion.

You'll no doubt argue that the level of coercion in the tax code doesn't rise to the same level as a vaccine mandate, and I would agree.  My point is simply that American government has been coercing people for decades with nary a peep.

Letting people keep some of their income isn't even remotely the same thing as forcing somebody to accept a medical treatment that they don't want.  If I argued that restrictions on abortion were justified because we already have the home mortgage interest deduction, I'd be laughed out of the room and rightly so.

"We have this one form of nudging already in place, therefore all forms of coercion are okay" isn't a very strong argument.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

FWIW, I know a ton of people who feel exactly like this. 

No one is being forced to inject anything into their body. The use of the term "mandate" is loaded and irresponsible imo.  I don't think the OSHA reg on this is finalized yet, right?  Should we wait to see what the actual law is before deciding?  Early reports are that employees will have a choice to either be vaccinated or take a weekly C-19 test.  For me, this is comparable to telling food workers they have to wear a hairnet or asking smokers to go outside for their cig breaks.

 

[fatness]

As someone who elected to be vaccinated as early as I could be and believe that it it the most important step in fighting Covid, I voted strongly against.  Forcing someone to inject  something to their body they do not want simply isn't right.   

The mandate doesn't force anyone to get vaccinated. It's in the first post.

Seems like basically, companies with 100+ employees will be required to prove their in office employees are either fully vaccinated or have passed a weekly COVID test.

 

[The Commish]

No one is being forced to inject anything into their body. The use of the term "mandate" is loaded and irresponsible imo.  I don't think the OSHA reg on this is finalized yet, right?  Should we wait to see what the actual law is before deciding?  Early reports are that employees will have a choice to either be vaccinated or take a weekly C-19 test.  For me, this is comparable to telling food workers they have to wear a hairnet or asking smokers to go outside for their cig breaks.

 

[RCon]

Letting people keep some of their income isn't even remotely the same thing as forcing somebody to accept a medical treatment that they don't want.  If I argued that restrictions on abortion were justified because we already have the home mortgage interest deduction, I'd be laughed out of the room and rightly so.

"We have this one form of nudging already in place, therefore all forms of coercion are okay" isn't a very strong argument.

That wasn't my argument and you know it.  Go read through the comments that led to this particular train of quotes.  Our government has been coercing people, at varying levels, to act in specific ways, since we've had a government.  For some to react to the idea of coercion as "how could we possibly be talking about this in America?!!?!!??" is ignoring decades of history.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

That wasn't my argument and you know it.  Go read through the comments that led to this particular train of quotes.  Our government has been coercing people, at varying levels, to act in specific ways, since we've had a government.  For some to react to the idea of coercion as "how could we possibly be talking about this in America?!!?!!??" is ignoring decades of history.

That's the argument that you just claimed wasn't yours and I knew it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"We've had stop signs for hundreds of years, so stop making a big deal out of rounding up the Japanese into internment camps."

 

[RCon]

That's the argument that you just claimed wasn't yours and I knew it.

You've clearly missed the train of comments.  Go back and read them in order, then come back.

 

[RCon]

"We've had stop signs for hundreds of years, so stop making a big deal out of rounding up the Japanese into internment camps."

Stop.  Read the comments in order.  Don't jump in half-way and mischaracterize.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

As someone who is about to get their child vaccinated tomorrow and get themselves a booster shot on Friday, I voted "mostly against" the mandate. If there were no testing opt-out clause, I would have voted "strongly against". While I believe everyone should get the shots, I think there is still a lot of room to increase uptake through transparently sharing data and effectively communicating the safety and efficacy of these vaccines, which frankly are modern miracles and we're darn lucky that they work as well as they do. I haven't been sharing as much of the efficacy data and the stark differences in outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated people here as I used to because frankly I got tired of saying the same thing over and over with responses like "look at the VAERS website" or whatever the current talking points were at the time.

I will end with this. If people aren't getting the vaccine because they have genuine doubts or worries and need more time to talk it out, gather data and get to a point where they feel comfortable, I support those people and would be happy to share the data sources that clearly outline the advantages for vaccination, both for individuals and society (DM me). If people aren't getting the vaccine because they don't want things to go well for a particular politician or political party, then that's unacceptable and I don't consider that person to be a serious adult. This virus killed 750,000 Americans since March of 2020, and that's likely a slight undercount. Could it have been worse? I guess so. It was pretty much hands down the worst thing that we've ever gone through IMO. Not getting the shots because "screw the libs" or for that matter "screw Trump" both are absolutely ignorant positions and I hold no quarter for those people. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Stop.  Read the comments in order.  Don't jump in half-way and mischaracterize.

"We have the home mortgage interest deduction, so what's the big deal with forcing people to undergo an invasive medical treatment against their will?"

"We have stop signs, so what's the big deal with interning the Japanese?"

I'm real confident that I'm following your argument correctly.  It's just a really bad argument.

 

[the moops]

I got vax early also-my choice. My concern is we have gone from initial two shots but now need a booster because the initial two shots effectiveness weakens...for vaccines that are still experimental. Natural immunity if you had Covid doesn't count. Do the boosters effectiveness weaken after another 6 months? Will wait on the booster(s). Total overreach by progressives.

I think you mean scientists.