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Pope demands 'legitimate redistribution' of wealth (1 Viewer)

B-Deep

Footballguy
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today.





Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who met in Rome this week.

Latin America's first pope has frequently lashed out at the injustices of capitalism and the global economic system that excludes so much of humanity, though his predecessors have voiced similar concerns.

On Friday, Francis called for the United Nations to promote a "worldwide ethical mobilization" of solidarity with the poor in a new spirit of generosity.

He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society."

Francis voiced a similar message to the World Economic Forum in January and in his apostolic exhortation "The Joy of the Gospel." That document, which denounced trickle-down economic theories as unproven and naive, provoked accusations in the U.S. that he was a Marxist.

Francis urged the U.N. to promote development goals that attack the root causes of poverty and hunger, protect the environment and ensure dignified labor for all.

"Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustices and resisting the economy of exclusion, the throwaway culture and the culture of death which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted," he said.

Friday's audience came just days after the Holy See was battered in a second round of grilling by a U.N. committee over its record of handling priestly sex abuse. Neither the pope nor Ban spoke of the issue, but Francis referred to another topic at the U.N. hearings: the church's opposition to abortion. He called for respect for life "from conception to natural death" and his denunciation of the "culture of death" echoed previous papal exhortations against abortion.

During the meeting, Ban invited Francis to speak to the United Nations. The Vatican hasn't confirmed any such trip, but Francis is widely expected to visit the U.S. in September 2015 to participate in a church meeting on families in Philadelphia, making a U.N. stop then likely.

___

 
Isn't the Vatican worth billions with massive amounts of gold tucked away? Is this guy planning on handing out boxes of gold bricks in these poor, suffering countries?

 
Isn't the Vatican worth billions with massive amounts of gold tucked away? Is this guy planning on handing out boxes of gold bricks in these poor, suffering countries?
was just coming in to post that if it is such a good idea they can start with their billions.

 
Isn't the Vatican worth billions with massive amounts of gold tucked away? Is this guy planning on handing out boxes of gold bricks in these poor, suffering countries?
was just coming in to post that if it is such a good idea they can start with their billions.
Same here.
At an unprecedented summit convened in Rome at the behest of Pope Francis earlier this month, a Vatican official warned the treasurers of 500 Catholic orders from around the world that their financial wealth, sometimes used for secular, commercial purposes such as running hotels and restaurants, was contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church and imperils their religious mission.

Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, secretary of the Vatican’s Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, told the meeting’s attendees, “Those who do not renounce wealth cannot be disciples" of Jesus, “the poor man who lives in solidarity with the poor.” According to the National Catholic Reporter, “a constant theme during the event” was “criticism of the capitalist system, which several speakers called a ‘structure of sin.’”

This new move by Francis, just one part of what many Catholics hope are wide-ranging financial reforms within the church, is driven by the pope’s concern that by engaging in modern economic activity, religious institutions “run the risk of losing their true identity.”

Reconciling the divide between the church’s vast wealth and its mission to serve the poor has become a priority for a pope who regularly issues spiritual broadsides against the inequities of the global economy.

But addressing the financial incompetence and corruption within the Vatican, as well as in decentralized Catholic dioceses around the world, requires far deeper changes than the pope can accomplish with either his new tone or personnel adjustments within the Vatican bureaucracy.

“One of the major problems of church finances,” said Thomas Reese, a Jesuit priest and author of “Inside the Vatican: The Politics and Organization of the Catholic Church,” “is the total incompetence of clergy in financial matters.”

Dogged by corruption and scandal, and a lack of transparency and accountability, the Vatican’s financial institutions have long drawn scrutiny from reform-minded Catholics as well as law enforcement and banking regulators. The church’s questionable financial dealings are the subject of “Holy Money,” a documentary airing Sunday on Al Jazeera America.

The secretive Vatican Bank, or Institute for the Works of Religion, isn’t a bank in the traditional sense, as it lends no money. It holds deposits for 19,000 customers, mostly Catholic institutions and clergy, yet does not adhere to banking industry standards for transparency or money laundering prevention.

The bank is outside the Vatican’s control, but the pope appoints the members of a committee of cardinals, which oversees its activities. In January, Francis fired four of the five cardinals because “they were doing a bad job,” said Reese. “They were either corrupt or incompetent.”
He's working on it.

 
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He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.

 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I didn't say I agreed with him in terms of political or economic theory.

I just think the guy is genuinely a good dude and isn't making the world a crappier place for non-pedophiles.

 
i mean the catholic church is now pro wealth redistribution, ant drone use (i think), anti death penalty (always has been), and pro gun control

just seems like they are not very GOP

 
i mean the catholic church is now pro wealth redistribution, ant drone use (i think), anti death penalty (always has been), and pro gun control

just seems like they are not very GOP
But they are still pro-Crusades, right? :confused:

 
Isn't the Vatican worth billions with massive amounts of gold tucked away? Is this guy planning on handing out boxes of gold bricks in these poor, suffering countries?
was just coming in to post that if it is such a good idea they can start with their billions.
Same here.
The bank is outside the Vatican’s control, but the pope appoints the members of a committee of cardinals, which oversees its activities. In January, Francis fired four of the five cardinals because “they were doing a bad job,” said Reese. “They were either corrupt or incompetent.”
He's working on it.
Pretty big gap between firing a couple cardinals and breaking open the Vatican vaults and doing what he's asking other people to do.

 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?

 
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He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?
Short answer is that the market doesn't care, but that the results are better anyhow. And I'm in a favor of a safety net to help out all those you mentioned, but that's a very different animal than redistribution of wealth.
 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?
This is what safety nets are for.

If you mean that capitalism leads to inequality, you're probably right. It's true that everybody tend to be equally poor in most non-capitalist societies. That's not a good argument against capitalism though, unless your priorities are really different than most.

 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?
This is what safety nets are for.

If you mean that capitalism leads to inequality, you're probably right. It's true that everybody tend to be equally poor in most non-capitalist societies. That's not a good argument against capitalism though, unless your priorities are really different than most.
Safety nets are provided by the government and require coercive taxation. This is not a naturally occurring market phenomenon. Pope Francis obviously advocates governments using this coercive power to provide social safety nets on a wider international scale—likely by seizing money through progressive taxation.

 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?
This is what safety nets are for.

If you mean that capitalism leads to inequality, you're probably right. It's true that everybody tend to be equally poor in most non-capitalist societies. That's not a good argument against capitalism though, unless your priorities are really different than most.
Safety nets are provided by the government and require coercive taxation. This is not a naturally occurring market phenomenon. Pope Francis obviously advocates governments using this coercive power to provide social safety nets on a wider international scalelikely by seizing money through progressive taxation.
If that's what he means I don't have a problem with it, but I suspect he wants it on a far greater scale- and also when you say on an international scale that means that it is the duty of the "haves" of the world, meaning the USA among others, to give more to the have nots?
 
Notice that key adjective "legitimate." It leaves the issue of what, by whom, and how much is going to be redistributed very much up in the air.

I also took particular note of this sentence.

"Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustices and resisting the economy of exclusion, the throwaway culture and the culture of death which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted," he said.
Do you think he might be talking about abortion?

 
He seems like he means well. But for all it's faults, free market capitalism remains the best way to bring about an end to poverty.
I can't even

OK, I'll bite. What's the free-market incentive to give a #### about poverty? Seriously. If someone is sick or mentally ill or elderly or just doesn't have skills, why does the free market care?
This is what safety nets are for.

If you mean that capitalism leads to inequality, you're probably right. It's true that everybody tend to be equally poor in most non-capitalist societies. That's not a good argument against capitalism though, unless your priorities are really different than most.
Safety nets are provided by the government and require coercive taxation. This is not a naturally occurring market phenomenon. Pope Francis obviously advocates governments using this coercive power to provide social safety nets on a wider international scalelikely by seizing money through progressive taxation.
If that's what he means I don't have a problem with it, but I suspect he wants it on a far greater scale- and also when you say on an international scale that means that it is the duty of the "haves" of the world, meaning the USA among others, to give more to the have nots?
That's what scripture calls for:

Judgment of the nations31 “Now when the Human One[a] comes in his majesty and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his majestic throne.

32 All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them from each other, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

33 He will put the sheep on his right side. But the goats he will put on his left.

34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who will receive good things from my Father. Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world began.

35 I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

36 I was naked and you gave me clothes to wear. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me.’

37 “Then those who are righteous will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink?

38 When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or naked and give you clothes to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “Then the king will reply to them, ‘I assure you that when you have done it for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done it for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 I was hungry and you didn’t give me food to eat. I was thirsty and you didn’t give me anything to drink.

43 I was a stranger and you didn’t welcome me. I was naked and you didn’t give me clothes to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn’t do anything to help you?’ 45 Then he will answer, ‘I assure you that when you haven’t done it for one of the least of these, you haven’t done it for me.’

46 And they will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life.”
 
Isn't the Vatican worth billions with massive amounts of gold tucked away? Is this guy planning on handing out boxes of gold bricks in these poor, suffering countries?
was just coming in to post that if it is such a good idea they can start with their billions.
Same here.
The bank is outside the Vatican’s control, but the pope appoints the members of a committee of cardinals, which oversees its activities. In January, Francis fired four of the five cardinals because “they were doing a bad job,” said Reese. “They were either corrupt or incompetent.”
He's working on it.
Pretty big gap between firing a couple cardinals and breaking open the Vatican vaults and doing what he's asking other people to do.
According this this, the Vatican's wealth is between $10-15 billion.....and that was in 1965!

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html

 
Shouldn't the pope be calling on the rich people to donate more money to the poor, rather than calling on governments to hammer the rich so governments can redistribute to the poor? Why is the inefficient middleman government part of the popes equation? To be consistent, shouldn't he be calling on all middlemen such as the mafia to donate more money to the poor?

 

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