Port Strikes (1 Viewer)

[Gatorade]

Just want to get everyone's thoughts on the Port Strikes at all the east coast ports. Depending on how long this lasts, it could really damage the economy. Personally, I hope it keeps my wife from buying so much crap online.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is just today's episode of our ongoing competency crisis. You're making a mistake if you're looking at this in isolation.

 

[Sand]

I just wonder how long before it's quashed. The rail one was quashed mercilessly and it wasn't even 30 days before things we can't speak about.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

 

[Bossman]

This is just today's episode of our ongoing competency crisis. You're making a mistake if you're looking at this in isolation.

Care to elaborate? I'm naive when it comes to these things.
Trying to understand it and just read this article: WP: Opinion - Dock Workers Strike

Seems the dock workers union is striking because of concerns that the ports are going automated and jobs will be lost.
So they are angling for higher wages ... and maybe golden parachutes when they lose jobs.
I feel for the workers but the automated systems will run 24/7 and only require some human supervision. Makes too much sense.

 

[Stoneworker]

I just wonder how long before it's quashed. The rail one was quashed mercilessly and it wasn't even 30 days before things we can't speak about.

Agreed. I give it a week.

 

[Sand]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

That's the point of this strike. Their main demand (or at least one of their main demands) is zero automation allowed.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is just today's episode of our ongoing competency crisis. You're making a mistake if you're looking at this in isolation.

Care to elaborate? I'm naive when it comes to these things.
Trying to understand it and just read this article: WP: Opinion - Dock Workers Strike

Seems the dock workers union is striking because of concerns that the ports are going automated and jobs will be lost.
So they are angling for higher wages ... and maybe golden parachutes when they lose jobs.
I feel for the workers but the automated systems will run 24/7 and only require some human supervision. Makes too much sense.

Sure. I don't think the US really has the ability to run its ports like a first-world peer country.

You might ask what type of expertise I have about how to manage a modern port. The answer is "none." I also do not know how to build a rail line, how to operate an air traffic control system. how to get people into and out of space, etc. But I do know that we used to be able to do those things, and we suddenly can't any more.

 

[bonsai]

Price increases and low stock because of "supply chain issues."

 

[CGRdrJoe]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

You could not be more wrong, a growing issue for us (uscg) is that the chips in these cranes are made in China. We've already had several hacked that have caused issues in west coast ports and we just had another shaddy thing go down in Florida were a crew (Chinese nationalists) came out to service the crane and entered with a black box but did not leave with it. Unless the goods are made in the US then we are quickly learning that we are not susceptible than more than just ransomware.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Price increases and low stock because of "supply chain issues."

Of course

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

 

[themeanmachine]

Per a WSJ article, "Dockworkers typically earn a six-figure annual salary because of work rules and overtime requirements. In the financial year that ended in 2020, more than half of 3,726 dockworkers at the Port of New York and New Jersey earned more than $150,000, according to a report by the port’s regulator. About one in five dockworkers at the port earned over $250,000 that year." And they want a 77% raise on top of that. My sympathies are limited.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

You could not be more wrong, a growing issue for us (uscg) is that the chips in these cranes are made in China. We've already had several hacked that have caused issues in west coast ports and we just had another shaddy thing go down in Florida were a crew (Chinese nationalists) came out to service the crane and entered with a black box but did not leave with it. Unless the goods are made in the US then we are quickly learning that we are not susceptible than more than just ransomware.

This is just another way of saying that the US lacks the ability to operate and maintain a modern port operation.

 

[ghostguy123]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

Same. Pretty much guarantees a faster track to automation.

 

[ghostguy123]

Maybe we shouldnt be so dependent on import/export with other countries.

 

[ghostguy123]

Wait, do we need to stock up on toilet paper again?

 

[NutterButter]

Per a WSJ article, "Dockworkers typically earn a six-figure annual salary because of work rules and overtime requirements. In the financial year that ended in 2020, more than half of 3,726 dockworkers at the Port of New York and New Jersey earned more than $150,000, according to a report by the port’s regulator. About one in five dockworkers at the port earned over $250,000 that year." And they want a 77% raise on top of that. My sympathies are limited.

They must work a crapload (technical term) of overtime b/c per a NYTimes article, "longshoremen on the East and Gulf Coasts earned a top rate of $39 an hour". And just to be clear, that 77% is over the 6 years of the new contract they're seeking.

 

[Stoneworker]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

Wait. Aren't you the king of the anti-corporate greed movement in this forum? That is their logic.

Industry profits topped $400 billion from 2020 to 2023, which is believed to be more than the industry had previously made in total since containerization started in 1957

“Since Covid, they’re making billions and billions of dollars,” Daggett said. “But they don’t want to share it. They’d rather see a fully automated terminal right here on the East Coast so they can make more money.”

 

[3C's]

Wait, do we need to stock up on toilet paper again?

Apparently...

My son works at a Walmart and said the place is crazy. Social media fears strike again.

 

[Gatorade]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

the ports on the west coast operate more efficiently because of automation. BUT, China makes these cranes and monitors them.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

the ports on the west coast operate more efficiently because of automation. BUT, China makes these cranes and monitors them.

Maybe somebody, if we work hard and pull ourselves up by our bootstaps, we could be one of those fancy-pants countries that makes things like cranes.

 

[Gatorade]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

I heard they already turned down a 50% pay raise plus triple benefits. plus guarantees on not increasing automation.

 

[ChiefD]

Cool. More costs to erode what is remaining of my take home pay.

 

[NutterButter]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

I heard they already turned down a 50% pay raise plus triple benefits. plus guarantees on not increasing automation.

That's 50% over the next 6 years. Seems like they want to make up for the last contract where they only got 11% over the last 6 years while inflation was far higher than that.

 

[Bossman]

So the way to avoid their jobs being automated is by demanding a 150% pay raise?

Can't say that I see the logic there.

I heard they already turned down a 50% pay raise plus triple benefits. plus guarantees on not increasing automation.

Maybe they were all looking forward to some time off this week.
Can we get those automated cranes in there tomorrow?

 

[HellToupee]

This Harold Daggett is a pretty interesting guy

Charged with racketeering in 2005, Mr Daggett, took the witness stand and portrayed himself as a mob target, despite evidence against him from a turncoat Mafia enforcer saying he was under the mob’s control, the New York Times reported.

“During that trial, one of Mr Daggett’s co-defendants, a renowned mobster named Lawrence Ricci, disappeared. His decomposing body was found in the trunk of a car outside a New Jersey diner several weeks later, with the killing still unsolved. “

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This Harold Daggett is a pretty interesting guy

Charged with racketeering in 2005, Mr Daggett, took the witness stand and portrayed himself as a mob target, despite evidence against him from a turncoat Mafia enforcer saying he was under the mob’s control, the New York Times reported.

“During that trial, one of Mr Daggett’s co-defendants, a renowned mobster named Lawrence Ricci, disappeared. His decomposing body was found in the trunk of a car outside a New Jersey diner several weeks later, with the killing still unsolved. “

There are aspects of this particular story that very much feel like an episode of The Wire. I don't want to go too far down this road for obvious reasons, but it's really kind of uncanny how this guy is a walking stereotype.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

I mean, that’s basically why they are striking

 

[Long Ball Larry]

This Harold Daggett is a pretty interesting guy

Charged with racketeering in 2005, Mr Daggett, took the witness stand and portrayed himself as a mob target, despite evidence against him from a turncoat Mafia enforcer saying he was under the mob’s control, the New York Times reported.

“During that trial, one of Mr Daggett’s co-defendants, a renowned mobster named Lawrence Ricci, disappeared. His decomposing body was found in the trunk of a car outside a New Jersey diner several weeks later, with the killing still unsolved. “

There are aspects of this particular story that very much feel like an episode of The Wire. I don't want to go too far down this road for obvious reasons, but it's really kind of uncanny how this guy is a walking stereotype.

We used to make **** in this country, build ****

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

maybe not in my lifetime (or maybe so) I think most jobs will be automated.

 

[HellToupee]

This Harold Daggett is a pretty interesting guy

Charged with racketeering in 2005, Mr Daggett, took the witness stand and portrayed himself as a mob target, despite evidence against him from a turncoat Mafia enforcer saying he was under the mob’s control, the New York Times reported.

“During that trial, one of Mr Daggett’s co-defendants, a renowned mobster named Lawrence Ricci, disappeared. His decomposing body was found in the trunk of a car outside a New Jersey diner several weeks later, with the killing still unsolved. “

There are aspects of this particular story that very much feel like an episode of The Wire. I don't want to go too far down this road for obvious reasons, but it's really kind of uncanny how this guy is a walking stereotype.

I hope he wears a pinky ring, just to finish the look

 

[HellToupee]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

I mean, that’s basically why they are striking

Better off striking now instead of when automation arrives. Although this might hasten it’s arrival

 

[Orange&Blue]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

China has an entire port completely run by AI.

 

[Orange&Blue]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

You could not be more wrong, a growing issue for us (uscg) is that the chips in these cranes are made in China. We've already had several hacked that have caused issues in west coast ports and we just had another shaddy thing go down in Florida were a crew (Chinese nationalists) came out to service the crane and entered with a black box but did not leave with it. Unless the goods are made in the US then we are quickly learning that we are not susceptible than more than just ransomware.

got a link for that?

 

[Terminalxylem]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

Longshoreman are like kings in HI - a low skill, albeit risky job which requires little education and pays $$$$. It’s nearly impossible to land those jobs unless you’re connected, and they’re rumored to be a criminal enterprise. Plus they kinda keep the island hostage, because we’re so dependent on shipping.

I’d welcome their automation.

 

[Max Power]

Panic toilet paper buying has begun.

 

[3C's]

Panic toilet paper buying has begun.

Posted about that above. Son works at Walmart and he said it was like during the pandemic with people clearing the shelves of TP and bottled water. I'm going to Costco later and one of the things we need (though not desperately) is TP and I'm thinking my chances aren't good.

 

[Max Power]

Panic toilet paper buying has begun.

Posted about that above. Son works at Walmart and he said it was like during the pandemic with people clearing the shelves of TP and bottled water. I'm going to Costco later and one of the things we need (though not desperately) is TP and I'm thinking my chances aren't good.

My wife fell victim to social media this morning. Facebook posts with empty shelves, so of course she's going to stock up. We're low on a couple things, so I get it. She's also not the type to go overboard purchasing extras. It's just such a crazy phenomenon.

 

[3C's]

Panic toilet paper buying has begun.

Posted about that above. Son works at Walmart and he said it was like during the pandemic with people clearing the shelves of TP and bottled water. I'm going to Costco later and one of the things we need (though not desperately) is TP and I'm thinking my chances aren't good.

My wife fell victim to social media this morning. Facebook posts with empty shelves, so of course she's going to stock up. We're low on a couple things, so I get it. She's also not the type to go overboard purchasing extras. It's just such a crazy phenomenon.

Yep. Wife was on the phone with her sister last night and she had it on speaker. Sister says "have you seen the current news...go out and stock up on stuff and keep your gas tanks full" I just rolled my eyes. Self fulfilling prophecy kind of stuff.

 

[eoMMan]

Those union port workers make some good money.

 

[NutterButter]

Those union port workers make some good money.

Its ok. Its max $39/hr with 1.5x for OT. So yeah some make 200k, but they're working like 100 hrs per week. Certainly is an excellent job for someone with no education.

 

[Courtjester]

Normally, I side with the working guy, but in this case, I think they’re going to have a hard time getting much sympathy. With families struggling to keep up with the increased cost-of-living, these guys wanting almost a 70% raise and causing hardship to those already struggling is not going to fly.

However, I think that’s mostly a smoke screen to hide the overall agenda, which is to curb the coming automation. I saw a TikTok video and it was reported to be from an LA port where a lot of the procedure was just done by machinery, and there was very little little human supervision. To me, this strike just accelerated that outcome for the ports. We all saw what happened with the fast food workers demanding $20 an hour. The restaurant industry responded with kiosks and less employees.

 

[Ron Swanson]

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

Unless you can get a Hazmat and Tanker endorsement. In that case it might be the best time ever. With an aging trucker workforce coupled with no Hazmat license until 21 and the oversight of PHMSA likely to block any autonomous driving of Hazmat loads for a very long while it could be a great career choice for those not already settled into a career path by 21.

 

[beer 30]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

You could not be more wrong, a growing issue for us (uscg) is that the chips in these cranes are made in China. We've already had several hacked that have caused issues in west coast ports and we just had another shaddy thing go down in Florida were a crew (Chinese nationalists) came out to service the crane and entered with a black box but did not leave with it. Unless the goods are made in the US then we are quickly learning that we are not susceptible than more than just ransomware.

Read this in the Morning Brew update, thought it was interesting in regards to automated ports in LA. I don't begrudge these guys their paycheck. It's **** work and dangerous, we have plenty of cash in this country to support our just in time lifestyle for widgets from China, send some shekels their way and move on. Negotiate increased automation over the next 10 years so these bozo's know it's coming and they need to be finding another career but it's not ending tomorrow. I don't think this is that hard but unions can be dicks too.

As it stands…in the US, only three terminals, all in California, are considered fully automated, and there are dueling reports as to what extent their conversion hurt workers.

• According to a report financed by the West Coast dockworkers union, automation eliminated 572 jobs, or 5% of the workforce, in 2020 and 2021.

• Another study done at UC Berkeley commissioned by port operators found that between 2015 and 2023, paid hours for port union members went up more than 11%. On average, dockworkers make over $150,000 a year.

 

[beer 30]

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

Unless you can get a Hazmat and Tanker endorsement. In that case it might be the best time ever. With an aging trucker workforce coupled with no Hazmat license until 21 and the oversight of PHMSA likely to block any autonomous driving of Hazmat loads for a very long while it could be a great career choice for those not already settled into a career path by 21.

There is a niche long haul industry that companies use and it's being highlighted right now with the response to Helene. Emergency loads being delivered to weather events is never going to go away. And the Kenworth facility that just opened up near here seems to be pushing plenty of long haul units so I don't see the drop off...yet. It's coming but I think we still have room for new drivers.

 

[Oracle]

I wonder how long before robots replace people that are unionized? The jobs are mostly repetitive. Not always, but many are. And often can be done more accurately by machines. Whether it is a port crane operator, a plane door assembler, or a stewardess serving drinks ... all easily doable by robots. Heck, many white color jobs are too.

Obviously robots are going to replace longshoremen. That has nothing to do with unionization -- it's just that ports are a really good example of enterprises that are good candidates for automation.

(Today is also not a good time to start a new career as a long-haul trucker).

You could not be more wrong, a growing issue for us (uscg) is that the chips in these cranes are made in China. We've already had several hacked that have caused issues in west coast ports and we just had another shaddy thing go down in Florida were a crew (Chinese nationalists) came out to service the crane and entered with a black box but did not leave with it. Unless the goods are made in the US then we are quickly learning that we are not susceptible than more than just ransomware.

It’s gotten to the point for department of energy that all of our chips used in our super computers/R&D are created within the US. We are using governmental overrides to step in front of anybody in line so that R&D can continue uninterrupted. Furthermore, there is an unstated rule that we will no longer hire Chinese nationals.

It’s kind of eye-opening…

 

[Bossman]

US workers going on strike are giving companies even MORE reason to go automated. This seems like a can't win scenario for the union other than short term.
It's hard to believe, with all of the technology and brain power we have, that the US couldn't buy the automation equipment from China and then develop their own chip to run it.
... or modify the China chip so that China could not access it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

US workers going on strike are giving companies even MORE reason to go automated. This seems like a can't win scenario for the union other than short term.
It's hard to believe, with all of the technology and brain power we have, that the US couldn't buy the automation equipment from China and then develop their own chip to run it.
... or modify the China chip so that China could not access it.

Any job that can be automated is going to be automated. That's just a fact of life, and it's not unique to longshoremen. We used to hire people to manually connect phone calls over landlines, for example.

If I were a 50 year-old longshoreman, I would want my union to fight against automation so that my job might last until retirement. But hopefully nobody thinks that that's a long-term "solution" to anything. It's coming whether anybody likes or not, and it's for the long-run good of society anyway.