[PPR Dynasty] Davonne Bess (1 Viewer)

[loose circuits]

In 6 starts, he averaged almost 12 PPG in PPR leagues. That's easily WR2 numbers. He also did it consistently without any TD production. If he can find the end zone more with more opportunities, he could be a solid sleeper.

I realize that he doesn't have the 'pedigree' that some people on these boards obsess about. He does however, seem to play similar than some PPR monsters mainly Welker and L. Moore. I think he has that type of upside...

Was wondering if the SP had any thoughts on what type of WR he might become?

 

[cstu]

He played well after Camarillo tore his knee and should do ok at the #2 to start the season, but I don't see him doing much and there's a strong possibility that the Dolphins draft a WR with one of their 2nd round picks. Bess is best suited to the slot and the Dolphins need a big, physical recever (Brian Robiskie?) opposite Ginn.

 

[loose circuits]

He played well after Camarillo tore his knee and should do ok at the #2 to start the season, but I don't see him doing much and there's a strong possibility that the Dolphins draft a WR with one of their 2nd round picks. Bess is best suited to the slot and the Dolphins need a big, physical recever (Brian Robiskie?) opposite Ginn.

seems to me that they need to focus on getting a NT, OLB, CB, and CB? Robiskie may not be there for them in the 2nd. I don't see any of the WR's below him that could beat out Bess considering the way he played last year. He was hyped all season long, got his opportunity, and almost outperformed Ginn. I think he also compliments Pennington more...Edited: Would Robiskie be good value at 44? Didn't realize they had 2 2nd round picks... I could see them passing on a WR. You don't seem like you agree...

 

[DenverBroncos]

Yes, Bess has good value and can be had for nothing. He has the ability to play as a fantasy WR3, as long as he is starting.

 

[blend]

I think he's going to be very undervalued next year in PPR ... He'll be a solid WR3, with borderline WR2 numbers.

He works underneath, doens't drop jack and Pennington is always looking underneath. I think he is a GREAT value for '09.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I think he's the perfect guy you want as your WR3 in PPR. Won't cost much and IMO will give you consistent points.

 

[loose circuits]

the reason I started this thread is because some guys in my leagues don't think he's worth a late 1st round pick. I disagree. I think he's a safer bet with just as much upside considering he's only 23 and proven he can get it done on a NFL field. He's already come a long ways to get where he's at as a UDFA. He's in a perfect system for his strengths and the coaches love him. He may be a guy who is good to get now because I'm betting people are planning on them drafting a WR. That doesn't always mean much, look at Meachem. I've tried to trade Bess away, but I can't seem to find the right value.

He could be one of the better values out there right now for rebuilding teams. I was only trying to move him because I own him in 2 leagues. I'll hold at this moment and expect this ticket to take off...

 

[The Man With No Name]

I offered Bess + Gerald Hayes for pick 21 and was turned down. and that team is weak at wr and lb.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Very limited WR in a very limited passing game. Miami is being built to run the ball, throw short passes to the backs and TEs, and then look down the field a few times a game. Bess is good for when it's 3rd and 5 and you need 6 yards. He is reliable, good hands, but only runs short routes and showed no ability IMO to break a tackle.

limited ability + limited passing offense= Not a lot

 

[jwb]

He was a rookie who had 50-something catches. The guy can obviously play. For his price, I'll buy.

 

[loose circuits]

Very limited WR in a very limited passing game. Miami is being built to run the ball, throw short passes to the backs and TEs, and then look down the field a few times a game. Bess is good for when it's 3rd and 5 and you need 6 yards. He is reliable, good hands, but only runs short routes and showed no ability IMO to break a tackle. limited ability + limited passing offense= Not a lot

I'll take what he got in his 6 starts last season. 35 for 366. That's 71.6 pts/6 gms= 11.9 pts/gm X 16= 191 pts/season. Which would have been the 26th WR in PPR formats. Consistently game to game, I might add. That's strong WR3 production. At 23, should we expect him to get better at all?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Very limited WR in a very limited passing game. Miami is being built to run the ball, throw short passes to the backs and TEs, and then look down the field a few times a game. Bess is good for when it's 3rd and 5 and you need 6 yards. He is reliable, good hands, but only runs short routes and showed no ability IMO to break a tackle. limited ability + limited passing offense= Not a lot

I'll take what he got in his 6 starts last season. 35 for 366. That's 71.6 pts/6 gms= 11.9 pts/gm X 16= 191 pts/season. Which would have been the 26th WR in PPR formats. Consistently game to game, I might add. That's strong WR3 production. At 23, should we expect him to get better at all?

Never inject facts into these threads...you're right in poiinting this out but I think the bigger questions are about the Miami Dolphins offense. I don't think the WR that will lead Miami in receptions in the year 2011 let's say, or even 2010 is currently on the miami Dolphins roster. Miamiwent into the playoffs against Baltimore and only dressed 3 WR...Bess went undrafted, is pretty small despite what he might be listed as, he is not very fast but he is quick, he could never be a WR1 on any NFL team although he was the WR2 for Miami last year. He cannot continue in that roll so he then slides down to either WR3 or the 3rd down specialist and in the end how often will you actually start Bess in your leagues?Put it another way...if we had the stats for every game then maybe we all would have started Bess during those 6 games you talked about...but IMO you will not see those chances this season. Bess is a bargain so if you want him I'm sure you can grab him off someone's roster, but ask yourself in a redraft if Bess would even be picked in a lot of leagues...I doubt he would.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

Is everyone assuming that Camarillo has lost his starting spot to Bess? Camarillo signed an extension just b4 he got hurt and it seems like he will regain the starting spot when he gets back.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Even though I like Bess as a WR3 for 2009, I wouldn't give a Round 1 rookie pick (or probably a 2) for him. Not enough upside IMO. . Round 3+ -- I'd probably consider pulling the trigger.

 

[loose circuits]

Is everyone assuming that Camarillo has lost his starting spot to Bess? Camarillo signed an extension just b4 he got hurt and it seems like he will regain the starting spot when he gets back.

sounds like he'll miss OTA's, but expects to be back in time for camp (best case scenario). I'm not sure he'll be as effective. He didn't have a whole lot in the tools department in the 1st place. Either way, I'd give Bess the nod at this point. Bess is not somebody that just appeared out of no where.

Ireland had hyped back in OTA's: http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_footb...s-dolphins.html

He also singled out David Kircus, Jayson Foster and Davone Bess as young receivers who impressed him during OTAs. I second the Kircus endorsement. He speculated that Bess might be a young receiver they can "hang your hat on for a little while

 

[maccabees]

Bill Par. said Bess will be a great player,you can hang your hat on it....Thats enough for me.

 

[loose circuits]

Even though I like Bess as a WR3 for 2009, I wouldn't give a Round 1 rookie pick (or probably a 2) for him. Not enough upside IMO. . Round 3+ -- I'd probably consider pulling the trigger.

I would take Bess over anyone not on this listWellsMorenoCrabtreeBrownMcCoyMaclinGreeneHarvinStaffordNicksJenningsSanchezBrittDHBRobiskiethat's 2.4 at the least. Maybe Freeman if he ends up in an ideal situation. If some of those guys go to less than ideal situations, I would probably take Bess over them at this moment, even more so if they don't draft a WR which is a big part of it. When was the last time Parcells drafted a WR high? Keyshawn, Antonio Bryant?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Even though I like Bess as a WR3 for 2009, I wouldn't give a Round 1 rookie pick (or probably a 2) for him. Not enough upside IMO. . Round 3+ -- I'd probably consider pulling the trigger.

I would take Bess over anyone not on this listWellsMorenoCrabtreeBrownMcCoyMaclinGreeneHarvinStaffordNicksJenningsSanchezBrittDHBRobiskiethat's 2.4 at the least. Maybe Freeman if he ends up in an ideal situation. If some of those guys go to less than ideal situations, I would probably take Bess over them at this moment, even more so if they don't draft a WR which is a big part of it. When was the last time Parcells drafted a WR high? Keyshawn, Antonio Bryant?

Lower in IDP leagues Anyway, if you don't value him as a 1st round pick, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised you aren't getting one for him. MOP is right in that he doesn't have enough upside to be worth too much. WR3 type guys with low ceilings are a dime a dozen.

 

[FUBAR]

Bess is decent depth to have, but I'd trade him for a mid 2nd pretty easily. He's similar in value to WRs like Randle El, Stokely, Wade, and where Ike Hilliard or Wayne Chrebet were for most of their career, with an upside of Justin Gage. Ask yourself what you'd give for Gage, add a little more due to youth and you have his value. Bess isn't a guy you're going to want to start at any time, but he'll probably score enough consistently to make you consider him.

 

[gman8343]

Bess is decent depth to have, but I'd trade him for a mid 2nd pretty easily. He's similar in value to WRs like Randle El, Stokely, Wade, and where Ike Hilliard or Wayne Chrebet were for most of their career, with an upside of Justin Gage. Ask yourself what you'd give for Gage, add a little more due to youth and you have his value. Bess isn't a guy you're going to want to start at any time, but he'll probably score enough consistently to make you consider him.

I'd much rather have Gage than Bess. Gage looks good when they get him the ball, and can catch TDs...

 

[az_prof]

Very limited WR in a very limited passing game. Miami is being built to run the ball, throw short passes to the backs and TEs, and then look down the field a few times a game. Bess is good for when it's 3rd and 5 and you need 6 yards. He is reliable, good hands, but only runs short routes and showed no ability IMO to break a tackle. limited ability + limited passing offense= Not a lot

I wouldn't even offer a second round rookie pick for him. He is no where near worth a first round pick. He might be a good guy to target late in redraft leagues but I just don't see him with alot of long term value--the ceiling is too low.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Even though I like Bess as a WR3 for 2009, I wouldn't give a Round 1 rookie pick (or probably a 2) for him. Not enough upside IMO. . Round 3+ -- I'd probably consider pulling the trigger.

I would take Bess over anyone not on this listWellsMorenoCrabtreeBrownMcCoyMaclinGreeneHarvinStaffordNicksJenningsSanchezBrittDHBRobiskiethat's 2.4 at the least. Maybe Freeman if he ends up in an ideal situation. If some of those guys go to less than ideal situations, I would probably take Bess over them at this moment, even more so if they don't draft a WR which is a big part of it. When was the last time Parcells drafted a WR high? Keyshawn, Antonio Bryant?

Lower in IDP leagues Anyway, if you don't value him as a 1st round pick, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised you aren't getting one for him. MOP is right in that he doesn't have enough upside to be worth too much. WR3 type guys with low ceilings are a dime a dozen.

all around.Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

 

[loose circuits]

Even though I like Bess as a WR3 for 2009, I wouldn't give a Round 1 rookie pick (or probably a 2) for him. Not enough upside IMO. . Round 3+ -- I'd probably consider pulling the trigger.

I would take Bess over anyone not on this listWellsMorenoCrabtreeBrownMcCoyMaclinGreeneHarvinStaffordNicksJenningsSanchezBrittDHBRobiskiethat's 2.4 at the least. Maybe Freeman if he ends up in an ideal situation. If some of those guys go to less than ideal situations, I would probably take Bess over them at this moment, even more so if they don't draft a WR which is a big part of it. When was the last time Parcells drafted a WR high? Keyshawn, Antonio Bryant?

Lower in IDP leagues Anyway, if you don't value him as a 1st round pick, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised you aren't getting one for him. MOP is right in that he doesn't have enough upside to be worth too much. WR3 type guys with low ceilings are a dime a dozen.

If 3 of those guys in the 2nd half of that draft end up in the wrong situation, then his value could be that much higher. When I was thinking late 1st, I hadn't put my updated draft board together. At 2.3, I think Bess is an extreme value. That seems to be the top end of it and if you can get him with a lower pick, I think he's a better option than any of the other rookie WR's. Bottomline, I've come to assume he's a good gamble for teams who want to draft a RB in the 1st and need WR depth, but will miss out on the cream of the crop.

 

[loose circuits]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

 

[loose circuits]

Bess is decent depth to have, but I'd trade him for a mid 2nd pretty easily. He's similar in value to WRs like Randle El, Stokely, Wade, and where Ike Hilliard or Wayne Chrebet were for most of their career, with an upside of Justin Gage. Ask yourself what you'd give for Gage, add a little more due to youth and you have his value. Bess isn't a guy you're going to want to start at any time, but he'll probably score enough consistently to make you consider him.

I'd much rather have Gage than Bess. Gage looks good when they get him the ball, and can catch TDs...

Funny you bring up Gage, I own both and were trying to move both. Was actually going to start a Gage thread after this one ran it's course.Gage actually averaged just a tad less PPG than Bess did. 11.25 to be exact. However, he gets more red zone opportunities. I actually like Bess better next season and long term. I think Davonne will be more consistent from week-to-week. Gage is a quality prospect though, and I think he's another guy that would be great value for 2.3+ in a 12 team PPR non-IDP dynasty league.I have Berrian and Bryant on the same team as well as A. Gonzo. It does not seem like I can get good value for any of them...I would suggest targeting all of them in trades.

 

[cstu]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

Let me just ask you a question - if Camarillo never got hurt, do you think Bess would have beat him out to become the #2 WR this year? I think you are overvaluing him without seeing what the Dolphins do in the draft. It would be foolish for anyone to give up even a 2nd right now when the Dolphins could draft a WR. If they don't take a WR then it tells us that the Dolphins think highly of him as the #2.

 

[loose circuits]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

Let me just ask you a question - if Camarillo never got hurt, do you think Bess would have beat him out to become the #2 WR this year? I think you are overvaluing him without seeing what the Dolphins do in the draft. It would be foolish for anyone to give up even a 2nd right now when the Dolphins could draft a WR. If they don't take a WR then it tells us that the Dolphins think highly of him as the #2.

you must think higher of the 2nd round guys than I do.Bess was already showing signs of emerging whie Camarillo was tearing it up. Regardless, it doesn't matter to me how he got there. The fact that he was put in that position and did what was expected (maybe even more) is what is important. I don't think Camarillo is the favorite to start and actually can't find a writer that believes Bess isn't the favorite if they don't draft a WR. I think Miami goes OLB in the 1st, so in the 2nd it will depend on whether they think one of the CB's or Robiskie is a better value at 44. I don't think they'll be there at 56. Camarillo may actually benefit Bess because with the depth, they may not need to address the WR position. Seems they like London as well

 

[Mikey16x]

I was always a fan of his. Watched him with the "Dread Heads" at Hawaii, he has the best pair of hands on the Dolphins. He will always catch the ball with his hands and never rushes without making the catch first and uses his body very well to get the separation he needs. He's not a deep-threat by any sense of the word but in PPR given the chance, he will succeed. Greg Camarillo was playing great before he went down but I don't think it was enough solidify him as the #1 next season without a training camp battle. IMO he starts opposite of Ginn because he will slowly but surely separate himself from the rest of the pack with clutch catches. He'll progress but a very consistent possession receiver is what your probably looking at career wise. If he starts next season for sure I'll generously give him 75 catches for 800 yards and 3-4 TD's.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

How many Phins' games did you watch last year? You are selling yourself on this guy pretty hard...2.3 value? Don't assume every WR or any NFL player will keep getting better and better with age. If Bess grows about 5 inches, adds about 30 lbs, starts running a 4.4 or faster...you get the idea here right? If you watched Miami games last year you would see that Miami desperately needs a better starting trio than Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess. Ginn IMHO is best suited as a slot guy or possibly in the Miami system as a guy they go down the field for maybe 2-4 times a game. Camarillo actually has the best skills of all of them when you take his game as a whole. Good hands, pretty quick with deceptive speed, and can get open.Bess has been good on short routes but his game is limited. I think Miami needs a new WR1, possibly even a WR2 upgrade and Bess on most teams would not be much more than a WR4/5 at best.

 

[loose circuits]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

How many Phins' games did you watch last year? You are selling yourself on this guy pretty hard...2.3 value? Don't assume every WR or any NFL player will keep getting better and better with age. If Bess grows about 5 inches, adds about 30 lbs, starts running a 4.4 or faster...you get the idea here right? If you watched Miami games last year you would see that Miami desperately needs a better starting trio than Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess. Ginn IMHO is best suited as a slot guy or possibly in the Miami system as a guy they go down the field for maybe 2-4 times a game. Camarillo actually has the best skills of all of them when you take his game as a whole. Good hands, pretty quick with deceptive speed, and can get open.Bess has been good on short routes but his game is limited. I think Miami needs a new WR1, possibly even a WR2 upgrade and Bess on most teams would not be much more than a WR4/5 at best.

i watched a few Dolphin games last season, but not everyone. Bess is automatic on the short routes though. I think of Wes Welker when watching him play. Look at what Wes did in Miami before he got to New England: 67 for 687 0 in his 4th season. I think Bess could become a similar type of player. Pat Kirwan always seems to call Belichek's guys Parcells's guys. Could be this be the time where the teacher emulates the student? That's the upside I see when I watch him play. Guys that can get the intermediate stuff done are important to teams in this day and age. Bess runs crisp routes and has sticky hands. He'll have a role.All that combine stats you talk about...are u still holding Chris Henry on your roster? That means nothing to me. After the list I provided earlier I don't see a lot of guys that are safe enough bets when you consider it. I look at the 2nd round like 50/50 crap shoot you can even get someone fantasy relevant. This draft is in May BTW, I think that kind of makes a difference since you don't get the camp reports and everything else...I think what the turning point will be is how high they draft a WR. I'll agree with you there. If you watched a lot of Miami football, do you think they need a CB, NT, and OLB as well?1 more thing I think needs to be mentioned. Bess is the perfect complement for Pennington's strengths.

 

[cstu]

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

Let me just ask you a question - if Camarillo never got hurt, do you think Bess would have beat him out to become the #2 WR this year? I think you are overvaluing him without seeing what the Dolphins do in the draft. It would be foolish for anyone to give up even a 2nd right now when the Dolphins could draft a WR. If they don't take a WR then it tells us that the Dolphins think highly of him as the #2.

you must think higher of the 2nd round guys than I do.Bess was already showing signs of emerging whie Camarillo was tearing it up. Regardless, it doesn't matter to me how he got there. The fact that he was put in that position and did what was expected (maybe even more) is what is important. I don't think Camarillo is the favorite to start and actually can't find a writer that believes Bess isn't the favorite if they don't draft a WR. I think Miami goes OLB in the 1st, so in the 2nd it will depend on whether they think one of the CB's or Robiskie is a better value at 44. I don't think they'll be there at 56. Camarillo may actually benefit Bess because with the depth, they may not need to address the WR position. Seems they like London as well

10.3 YPC doesn't exactly send a thrill up my leg as a #2 WR. He's perfect in the slot like Welker.

 

[cstu]

I see nothing wrong with you highly valuing a player, but don't expect everyone in your league to do the same. If you think this highly of him I don't understand why you want to trade him so badly.

 

[loose circuits]

I see nothing wrong with you highly valuing a player, but don't expect everyone in your league to do the same. If you think this highly of him I don't understand why you want to trade him so badly.

I'm beyond that. I just think he's undervalued by the market as a whole. If I didn't already own him in both leagues, I would by buying.I don't feel like I can get fair value for A. Bryant (skepticism about past), Berrian (held back by QB play), or A. Gonzo (too much upside). On the other hand, I'm super deep at WR. Just seems nobody else sees it that way...either way, I don't want to get involved with rating my team....I'm gonna hold onto Bess now and I'd suggest buying to anyone

 

[MTskibum]

I see nothing wrong with you highly valuing a player, but don't expect everyone in your league to do the same. If you think this highly of him I don't understand why you want to trade him so badly.

I'm beyond that. I just think he's undervalued by the market as a whole. If I didn't already own him in both leagues, I would by buying.I don't feel like I can get fair value for A. Bryant (skepticism about past), Berrian (held back by QB play), or A. Gonzo (too much upside). On the other hand, I'm super deep at WR. Just seems nobody else sees it that way. I'll just hold for now. That's in my best interest. We'll see what happens in the draft...

I will buy low send some offers:edit: not for bess, for your other guys

 

[loose circuits]

I see nothing wrong with you highly valuing a player, but don't expect everyone in your league to do the same. If you think this highly of him I don't understand why you want to trade him so badly.

I'm beyond that. I just think he's undervalued by the market as a whole. If I didn't already own him in both leagues, I would by buying.I don't feel like I can get fair value for A. Bryant (skepticism about past), Berrian (held back by QB play), or A. Gonzo (too much upside). On the other hand, I'm super deep at WR. Just seems nobody else sees it that way. I'll just hold for now. That's in my best interest. We'll see what happens in the draft...

I will buy low send some offers:edit: not for bess, for your other guys

like I said, better off holding

 

[LBH]

Loose you're making a good case for Bess. I might see if I can get him cheap in a few leagues. One other thing to consider is the transition from Pennington to Henne and how that might impact the passing game if they go to Henne in 09. I wouldn't pay more than an early 3rd but I think that could get it done in quite a few leagues

 

[loose circuits]

I was always a fan of his. Watched him with the "Dread Heads" at Hawaii, he has the best pair of hands on the Dolphins. He will always catch the ball with his hands and never rushes without making the catch first and uses his body very well to get the separation he needs. He's not a deep-threat by any sense of the word but in PPR given the chance, he will succeed. Greg Camarillo was playing great before he went down but I don't think it was enough solidify him as the #1 next season without a training camp battle. IMO he starts opposite of Ginn because he will slowly but surely separate himself from the rest of the pack with clutch catches. He'll progress but a very consistent possession receiver is what your probably looking at career wise. If he starts next season for sure I'll generously give him 75 catches for 800 yards and 3-4 TD's.

for some reason I missed this before. That's 180-190 pts or so. Top30 #'s

 

[az_prof]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

First, you can't extrapolate from a few games at the end of the year and just assume a guy will do that for a whole season when he has never done it before.Second, I would rather have Meachem, Kelly, and Sweed (Jarrett is a bust now) because while they may bust, there is hope that they could become featured WRs who contribute for years as a top star. Bess will never be an elite player. If anyone thinks that he will then why do they want to trade him for a second round pick? If you need a guy to plug in as a WR3 or WR4 for a few games, he is worth owning. He might be worth owning as a sleeper in redraft. But he is not worth much in dynasty.

 

[Rockchild]

Bess is one of those players that is worth more to the team that owns him the any team that wants hims. A WR3 in PPR with possible WR2 upside assuming everything goes right for him. This tier of player is always difficult to trade away and get good value for as there are a few of them out there.

 

[FUBAR]

Bess is decent depth to have, but I'd trade him for a mid 2nd pretty easily. He's similar in value to WRs like Randle El, Stokely, Wade, and where Ike Hilliard or Wayne Chrebet were for most of their career, with an upside of Justin Gage. Ask yourself what you'd give for Gage, add a little more due to youth and you have his value. Bess isn't a guy you're going to want to start at any time, but he'll probably score enough consistently to make you consider him.

I'd much rather have Gage than Bess. Gage looks good when they get him the ball, and can catch TDs...

Funny you bring up Gage, I own both and were trying to move both. Was actually going to start a Gage thread after this one ran it's course.Gage actually averaged just a tad less PPG than Bess did. 11.25 to be exact. However, he gets more red zone opportunities. I actually like Bess better next season and long term. I think Davonne will be more consistent from week-to-week. Gage is a quality prospect though, and I think he's another guy that would be great value for 2.3+ in a 12 team PPR non-IDP dynasty league.I have Berrian and Bryant on the same team as well as A. Gonzo. It does not seem like I can get good value for any of them...I would suggest targeting all of them in trades.

well there's a novel concept. an owner thinking his players are good values but nobody in his league appearing to agree. what's next, LHUCKS posting a USC player will succeed?

 

[loose circuits]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

First, you can't extrapolate from a few games at the end of the year and just assume a guy will do that for a whole season when he has never done it before.Second, I would rather have Meachem, Kelly, and Sweed (Jarrett is a bust now) because while they may bust, there is hope that they could become featured WRs who contribute for years as a top star. Bess will never be an elite player. If anyone thinks that he will then why do they want to trade him for a second round pick? If you need a guy to plug in as a WR3 or WR4 for a few games, he is worth owning. He might be worth owning as a sleeper in redraft. But he is not worth much in dynasty.

nah, Meachem and Kelly are both busts as well, that's amazing that people look at it like that. I don't...If I can get a guy that I know will at least get a few grabs a game, he's worth a spot. It depends on his amount of targets, which depends on whether they draft a guy early or not Meachem, Kelly, and Sweed aren't gonna see the field much. People are already writing of Meachem, Kelly has knee issues again. I'd much rather have Bess, and it's not even close. I'm talking about gambling with those type of guys in this years class. Depends on how much you like the 2nd round picks. To me, mainly if you need a TE cause there is some value for that...

 

[jwb]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group.

I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

First, you can't extrapolate from a few games at the end of the year and just assume a guy will do that for a whole season when he has never done it before.Second, I would rather have Meachem, Kelly, and Sweed (Jarrett is a bust now) because while they may bust, there is hope that they could become featured WRs who contribute for years as a top star. Bess will never be an elite player. If anyone thinks that he will then why do they want to trade him for a second round pick? If you need a guy to plug in as a WR3 or WR4 for a few games, he is worth owning. He might be worth owning as a sleeper in redraft. But he is not worth much in dynasty.

Bess doesn't have to be elite to be a solid FF player. He doesn't have to be the second coming of Fitz, etc. If his ceiling is, say, Cotchery-like (75-85 catches), well, that's fine. You need "non-elite-yet-solid" guys like that too. Bess caught 50+ as a rookie, and has good hands - I personally think a lot of that. He gets it, and he can play. He's likely going to be better than guys like Gage, Wade, Randle El (etc... I agree that guys like that are a dime a dozen.) It seems like you are saying that there are two WR tiers - elite, and everyone else. I disagree with that.You would really take Meachem (etc) over Bess in dynasty? Really?

 

[jonboltz]

Loose: I like Bess for 2009 as a nice WR3 option for as long as Penny is QB and no upgrades are made to their current group. I don't see the long term upside however. The ARE, Stokley, Wade comparisons posted above are what I see his long term value as. These guys are a dime a dozen.

It took Stokley 6 years in the league before he had as good of a season as Bess did last year...and has really only had 2. Half of Bobby Wade's 6 seasons were close. I don't think those guys are fair comparisons. I think Lance Moore is a better one. Of course, Pennington isn't Brees...I think bess has longterm potential as being a solid consitent 10-12 PPG guy. Those guys do not grow on trees as some would believe. That's top end WR3 production. At 23, considering his long term potential I see something different. I see a young guy that can find his niche and catch 5-7 balls/game in this league. Those type of guys will find jobs over the Robert Meachems, Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dwayne Jarrett's of the world. We don't know where Robiskie, Britt, DHB, Harvin, and Nicks fit when it comes to their previous cohorts. Will they 'get it' when they arrive? We know Bess does...

First, you can't extrapolate from a few games at the end of the year and just assume a guy will do that for a whole season when he has never done it before.Second, I would rather have Meachem, Kelly, and Sweed (Jarrett is a bust now) because while they may bust, there is hope that they could become featured WRs who contribute for years as a top star. Bess will never be an elite player. If anyone thinks that he will then why do they want to trade him for a second round pick? If you need a guy to plug in as a WR3 or WR4 for a few games, he is worth owning. He might be worth owning as a sleeper in redraft. But he is not worth much in dynasty.

First, this is PPR -- Bess will hold more value in this type of league than traditional leagues.Second, I think league size and starting requirements plays a large factor in his value. If you play in a league that is 12 teams and only starts 2 WRs -- 24 overall -- his value isn't that big. However, once you get into leagues that are 14 teams and/or start 3-4 WRs, he has potential to be an every week starter. Will he be a star? Probably not, but still more valuable than whoever you are gonna take 15-18th overall in your dynasty draft -- and certainly more valuable than Meachem, Kelly & Sweed.

 

[loose circuits]

all you need is 5-7 catches for 50-100 yds/ week. He's worth it in the end...not a better WR3-4 in a 12 team PPR league start 3&flex. Essentially, he's a starting player in that league. Think about it, that's probably at least 36-48 WR's started a week. Bess would have to be in that range, and I don't think there is a lot of risk. Bess is likely going to outproduce RB3's (you know guys like Jamal Lewis) if he's getting 5 for 75 a game. He's a legitimate starting player based off what he did on the field last year. I don't get that same feeling about any 2nd round pick (unless that team needs a TE, but a few of those guys will go to less than ideal situations). I've been in enough drafts to know that you can easily be fooled, why take that risk? I think Miami is going to use him as part of the game plan whether they draft a WR low or not, so I don't see the floor.

 

[loose circuits]

Bess is running with the 1's in practice, but Camarillo isn't there:(from Miami Herald)

The starting receivers today are Ted Ginn Jr. and Davone Bess. Ginn beat Eric Green on a 40-some-yard pass from Chad Pennington. The play went for a TD that will mean nothing in September or even tomorrow.

My suspicions that Miami wouldn't draft a WR high came thru. I guess it depends on how quickly Pat Turner can develop, but I don't see it in 2010. To me, Bess could lead the team in receptions this year and is grossly undervalued right now. For the record, I feel better about him on my roster than Brandon Tate who I drafted at 2.12.

 

[MAC_32]

I have more faith in Bess being relevant this year than either of the rooks, both of which I think were way over drafted. Turner at least has measurables, I get that, but what's there to like about Hartline? I don't get it. I'll be watching Brandon London in camp but unless Camarillo finds a way to get healthy sooner than expected Bess is going to be the #2/possession WR in this run heavy offense. I doubt he'll be too great of an asset in non ppr, but ppr? Could be a decent #3.

 

[EBF]

He has become a trendy sleeper this offseason, but I think he's overvalued. He's not very big and he doesn't have the speed to compensate for his lack of size. IIRC he ran in the 4.6-4.7 range at the combine. He's a good football player and he might have a nice career in the NFL, but I think his FF ceiling is limited and his best fit would be in the slot.

The only cause for optimism is the putrid state of Miami's WR corps. Their group is so bad that Bess might actually be their best WR.

 

[Matt Waldman]

loosecircuits, I think the answers in this thread tell you what you need to know regardless of what he really does in the future...

Some folks like his upside, others think last season is about what you should expect from him in the future. That should tell you that you can't drive up his value much right now just give up on trying to pry loose a bigger ransom in exchange for him. It would have been like trying to trade away Brian Westbrook for a second round pick in dynasty leagues after his rookie year. He proved to be worth more, but few would have bitten at that time.

 

[The Man With No Name]

loosecircuits, I think the answers in this thread tell you what you need to know regardless of what he really does in the future...Some folks like his upside, others think last season is about what you should expect from him in the future. That should tell you that you can't drive up his value much right now just give up on trying to pry loose a bigger ransom in exchange for him. It would have been like trying to trade away Brian Westbrook for a second round pick in dynasty leagues after his rookie year. He proved to be worth more, but few would have bitten at that time.

I offered him for a 3rd round rookie pick either this year or next year during a rookie ppr draft and nobody wanted him.

 

[loose circuits]

loosecircuits, I think the answers in this thread tell you what you need to know regardless of what he really does in the future...Some folks like his upside, others think last season is about what you should expect from him in the future. That should tell you that you can't drive up his value much right now just give up on trying to pry loose a bigger ransom in exchange for him. It would have been like trying to trade away Brian Westbrook for a second round pick in dynasty leagues after his rookie year. He proved to be worth more, but few would have bitten at that time.

yep, our draft came and went and I ended up making alternative moves. At the point I would have been able to trade him, it wouldn't have been worth it because people don't see any upside