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Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2023 Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Yogibear

Yogibear

Footballguy
Well, the list of preliminary nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2023 was released yesterday. Here's the list:

Quarterbacks: Randall Cunningham, Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Dave Krieg, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair

Running Backs: Shaun Alexander, Mike Alstott, Tiki Barber, Larry Centers (FB), Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Eddie George, Priest Holmes, Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, Vonta Leach (FB), Jamal Lewis, Lorenzo Neal (FB), Eric Metcalf (also WR/PR/KR), Fred Taylor, Ricky Watters, Brian Westbrook

Wide Receivers: Anquan Boldin, Troy Brown (also PR/KR), Donald Driver, Henry Ellard (also PR), Irving Fryar, Devin Hester (also PR/KR), Torry Holt, Joe Horn, Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Derrick Mason, Muhsin Muhammad, Andre Rison, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Steve Smith Sr., Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Roddy White

Tight Ends: Dallas Clark, Ben Coates, Wesley Walls

Offensive Linemen: Willie Anderson (T), Matt Birk (C), Lomas Brown (T), Ruben Brown (G), Jahri Evans (G), D'Brickashaw Ferguson (T), Kevin Glover (C/G), Jordan Gross (T), Olin Kreutz (C), Nick Mangold (C), Logan Mankins (G), Tom Nalen (C), Nate Newton (G/T), Jeff Saturday (C), Mark Schlereth (G/C), Chris Snee (G), Joe Thomas (T), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Erik Williams (T), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen: John Abraham (DE, also LB), Jared Allen (DE), Dwight Freeney (DE), La'Roi Glover (DT/NT), Casey Hampton (DT/NT), Robert Mathis (DE), Leslie O'Neal (DE), Simeon Rice (DE), Clyde Simmons (DE/DT), Justin Smith (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Justin Tuck (DE), Vince Wilfork (DT/NT), Kevin Williams (DT/DE)

Linebackers: Jessie Armstead, Cornelius Bennett, NaVorro Bowman, Lance Briggs, Chad Brown, Tedy Bruschi, James Farrior, London Fletcher, James Harrison, Seth Joyner, Willie McGinest (also DE), Takeo Spikes, Pat Swilling (also DE), Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, Patrick Willis, Al Wilson

Defensive Backs: Eric Allen (CB), Ronde Barber (CB/S), Dre' Bly (CB), Kam Chancellor (S), Nick Collins (S), Antonio Cromartie (CB), Merton Hanks (S), Rodney Harrison (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Terry McDaniel (CB), Tim McDonald (S), Darrelle Revis (CB), Allen Rossum (CB), Asante Samuel (CB), Bob Sanders (S), Charles Tillman (CB), Troy Vincent (CB), Adrian Wilson (S), Darren Woodson (S)

Punters/Kickers: Gary Anderson (K), Jason Elam (K), Jeff Feagles (P), Jason Hanson (K), John Kasay (K), Sean Landeta (P), Shane Lechler (P), Ryan Longwell (K), Pat McAfee (P), Matt Turk (P)

Special Teams: Josh Cribbs (KR/PR also WR), Brian Mitchell (KR/PR also RB)

Some major names stick out as shoo-ins: Devin Hester, Joe Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, Darrelle Revis, & Shane Lechler. Keep in mind that Chuck Howley, Joe Klecko, & Ken Riley are the Senior Finalists, and Don Coryell is the Coach/Contributor Finalist. Who on this list do you believe has a legitimate shot at making the Hall of Fame in 2023?
 
There's an awful lot of hall of very good level names there... would probably pick Joe Thomas, Jared Allen, Darrelle Revis, after that nobody else is jumping out as super obvious. Might be a good year to clear that huge WR backlog, but who?
 
Zach Thomas 5x All Pro

Not many in the Front 7 listed can say that, not sure why they won't put him in, it's ridiculous.

Patrick Willis was a 5x All Pro but more recent to the list and he had a shorter career but that shouldn't be used against him.
 
One of either Ricky Watters or Corey Dillon
Joe Thomas
Zach Thomas
One of either Patrick Willis or Darrelle Revis
Also a slight bump for my man Rod Smith
 
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QB none

RB
  1. Ricky Watters
  2. Shaun Alexander
  3. Tiki Barber
  4. Priest Holmes
  5. Warrick Dunn
  6. Corey Dillon
  7. Jamal Lewis
  8. Fred Taylor
  9. Eddie George
  10. Steven Jackson
  11. Chris Johnson
  12. Eric Metcalf
  13. Brian Westbrook
None of these guys are Hall of Famers. I wanted to list them out (the order is the PFR HoF monitor list) just to illustrate how hard it is to get into Canton. Every one of these guys played at least 9 years, usually at a very high level. Some of my all time favorite players. There are (at least) 25 RBs in the Hall and I don't think any of them will make it. But I would be fine with any of the Top 4 eventually getting through the Veteran Committee or whatever it's called.

WR - Reggie Wayne, Torrey Holt, Steve Smith and Andre Johnson should be Hall of Famers eventually.

Henry Ellard, Anquan Boldin, Hines Ward, Jimmy Smith and Rod Smith are borderline.

TE none

T Joe Thomas is a lock to get in someday.

G Logan Mankins and Steve Wisniewski are right there with the best ever.

C Jeff Saturday ia definitely worthy.

DT Kevin Williams should have a gold jacket.

DE Dwight Freeney is not a debate.

EDIT: Jared Allen is another one who seems like a no brainer until you think about how many deserve it.

ILB Zach Thomas and Patrick Willis deserve it.

CB Darrelle Revis easy call.

Don Coryell should be in for his contributions to the development of the modern passing game.

That's 13 15 and over half of them won't get in this year. It's a very tough decision.
 

Class of 2023 Modern-Era Player Semifinalists​

The following is the list of 2023 Modern-Era Player Semifinalists, including their positions, years and teams. Also listed are the number of times and years the candidate has been named a Semifinalist since this reduction vote was added to the Hall of Fame’s Bylaws in 2004. (Note: The Bylaws state the number of Semifinalists shall be 25 – or a larger number if players tie for the 25th position.)
  • Eric Allen, CB – 1988-1994 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995-97 New Orleans Saints, 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
  • Jared Allen, DE – 2004-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-15 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
  • Willie Anderson, T – 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
  • Ronde Barber, CB/S – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2018-2023)
  • Anquan Boldin, WR – 2003-09 Arizona Cardinals, 2010-12 Baltimore Ravens, 2013-15 San Francisco 49ers, 2016 Detroit Lions | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Henry Ellard, WR – 1983-1993 Los Angeles Rams, 1994-98 Washington Redskins, 1998 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • Jahri Evans, G – 2006-2016 New Orleans Saints, 2017 Green Bay Packers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • London Fletcher, LB – 1998-2001 St. Louis Rams, 2002-06 Buffalo Bills, 2007-2013 Washington Redskins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • Dwight Freeney, DE – 2002-2012 Indianapolis Colts, 2013-14 San Diego Chargers, 2015 Arizona Cardinals, 2016 Atlanta Falcons, 2017 Seattle Seahawks, 2017 Detroit Lions | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • James Harrison, LB – 2002-2012, 2014-17 Pittsburgh Steelers, 2013 Cincinnati Bengals, 2017 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • Rodney Harrison, S – 1994-2002 San Diego Chargers, 2003-08 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021, 2023)
  • Devin Hester, PR/KR/WR – 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-15 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2015-2023)
  • Andre Johnson, WR – 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016 Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Albert Lewis, CB – 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-98 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2013, 2023)
  • Robert Mathis, DE/LB – 2003-2016 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Darrelle Revis, CB – 2007-2012, 2015-16 New York Jets, 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2014 New England Patriots, 2017 Kansas City Chiefs | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • Steve Smith Sr., WR – 2001-2013 Carolina Panthers, 2014-16 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Fred Taylor, RB – 1998-2008 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-2010 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
  • Joe Thomas, T – 2007-2017 Cleveland Browns | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
  • Zach Thomas, LB – 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2019-2023)
  • Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2017-2023)
  • DeMarcus Ware, LB/DE – 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-16 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Ricky Watters, RB – 1992-94 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-97 Philadelphia Eagles, 1998-2001 Seattle Seahawks | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020, 2022-23)
  • Reggie Wayne, WR – 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
  • Vince Wilfork, DT – 2004-2014 New England Patriots, 2015-16 Houston Texans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
  • Patrick Willis, LB – 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
  • Darren Woodson, S – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2015, 2017, 2019-2023)
 
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
Darrelle Revis
Joe Thomas
Zack Thomas
Demarcus Ware
Dwight Freeney
Patrick Willis
Click to expand...
OK :thumbup:

I understand being a Miami fan I am biased by nature but I cannot understand how Zach Thomas is not in the Hall of Fame, especially being a linebacker, doubt we see a lot of them in the future Hall of Fame inductions.

I also think Bob Kuechenberg should have been in 15-20 yrs ago and that's an even longer post but Thomas should be in, hard to hear any reasons why he shouldn't
 
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Devin Hester, Darrelle Revis, Joe Thomas and DeMarcus Ware are the only names that have a legitimate chance of making it to Canton next year.
 
Well, the list of finalists was just released in the last couple of days. Here's the list:

Jared Allen

Willie Anderson

Ronde Barber

Dwight Freeney

Devin Hester

Torry Holt

Andre Johnson

Albert Lewis

Darrelle Revis

Joe Thomas

Zach Thomas

DeMarcus Ware

Reggie Wayne

Patrick Willis

Darren Woodson

Now, keep in mind that Don Coryell is the Coach/Contributor Finalist & that Ken Riley, Chuck Howley & Joe Klecko are the Senior Finalists for the Hall of Fame Class of 2023. Out of the names on the list, who do you think has the best chance of getting into Canton in 2023?
 
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Not that HOF Monitor Score is the best metric for this, but it's at least a way to do a baseline comparison . . .

HOF MONITOR SCORES:
Zach Thomas - 114.30 (6th among ILB, average HOF ILB is 108.63)
Joe Thomas - 112.98 (5th among T, average HOF T is 94.56)
Darrelle Revis - 112.23 (8th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Patrick Willis - 109.60 (8th among ILB, average HOF ILB is 108.63)
Reggie Wayne - 108.64 (11th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
Torry Holt - 106.72 (13th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
DeMarcus Ware - 96.83 (9th among OLB, average HOF OLB is 106.40)
Andre Johnson - 93.41 (19th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
Dwight Freeney - 86.05 (15th among DE, average HOF DE is 104.25)
Ronde Barber - 85.43 (23rd among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Jared Allen - 70.65 (21st among DE, average HOF DE is 104.25)
Darren Woodson - 64.83 (44th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Willie Anderson - 59.53 (28th among T, average HOF T is 94.56)
Albert Lewis - 50.50 (67th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Devin Hester - 49.90 (71st among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

Chuck Howley - 70.70 (18th among OLB, average HOF OLB is 106.40)
Ken Riley - 54.85 (62nd among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Joe Klecko - 46.58 (39th among DT, average HOF DT is 109.90)
 
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The biggest difference makers on the list are Revis and Hester. The PFHOF is more about lobbying than anything. It wouldn’t shock me if Howley makes it in the old timers part. Ken Riley was really outstanding, hope he makes it.
 
I would vote for:

Modern era players:
  • Ronde Barber
  • Torry Holt
  • Darelle Revis
  • Joe Thomas
  • Zach Thomas
Coach/Contributor - Don Coryell
 
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FairWarning said:
The biggest difference makers on the list are Revis and Hester. The PFHOF is more about lobbying than anything. It wouldn’t shock me if Howley makes it in the old timers part. Ken Riley was really outstanding, hope he makes it.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely on Hester. In 156 career games, he scored 37 TDs, counting offense, defense, and special teams. He was essentially a non-factor on offense - 22 YFS and 0.1 TD per game.

As a simple example since he is listed as a WR, no way he deserves to get in over Holt, Wayne, or Andre Johnson, who were all more impactful for their teams.

CalBear said:
Neither Hester nor Lechler deserve to be in the hall. Please.
Click to expand...

:goodposting:
 
FairWarning said:
The biggest difference makers on the list are Revis and Hester. The PFHOF is more about lobbying than anything. It wouldn’t shock me if Howley makes it in the old timers part. Ken Riley was really outstanding, hope he makes it.
Click to expand...
The most TDs Hester ever scored in a season was 8. He did that once. He did 7 once and 5 once.

Some difference.
 
Just Win Baby said:
FairWarning said:
The biggest difference makers on the list are Revis and Hester. The PFHOF is more about lobbying than anything. It wouldn’t shock me if Howley makes it in the old timers part. Ken Riley was really outstanding, hope he makes it.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely on Hester. In 156 career games, he scored 37 TDs, counting offense, defense, and special teams. He was essentially a non-factor on offense - 22 YFS and 0.1 TD per game.

As a simple example since he is listed as a WR, no way he deserves to get in over Holt, Wayne, or Andre Johnson, who were all more impactful for their teams.

CalBear said:
Neither Hester nor Lechler deserve to be in the hall. Please.
Click to expand...

:goodposting:
Click to expand...
If there's a hill I am going to defend to the death and die on, it's saying JUST SAY NO to special teams players getting into the HOF. My team has 2 candidates (Vinatieri and Slater), and I'd be perfectly happy if they never got in. (People may laugh at Slater, but he has more Pro Bowl and All Pro selections than Steve Tasker, and people bring him up all the time.) I struggle with considering players that were not good enough to play a regular position at a productive level, and as a special teamer, they only played a handful of snaps per game. The difference in a great punter and other punters in the league amounts to very little difference yardage or field position wise over the course of a season (or a career). The difference between a FG kicker vs. other FG kickers is not that great. Is making a few extra kicks or a couple of longer ones worth a HOF spot? And a kick returner, even one with some kick return TDs, only made a few big plays over his career and should not merit the same consideration as players that scored 100 TD. But that's just my opinion, man.
 
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Just Win Baby said:
FairWarning said:
The biggest difference makers on the list are Revis and Hester. The PFHOF is more about lobbying than anything. It wouldn’t shock me if Howley makes it in the old timers part. Ken Riley was really outstanding, hope he makes it.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely on Hester. In 156 career games, he scored 37 TDs, counting offense, defense, and special teams. He was essentially a non-factor on offense - 22 YFS and 0.1 TD per game.

As a simple example since he is listed as a WR, no way he deserves to get in over Holt, Wayne, or Andre Johnson, who were all more impactful for their teams.

CalBear said:
Neither Hester nor Lechler deserve to be in the hall. Please.
Click to expand...

:goodposting:
Click to expand...
He would only get consideration from me as a ST player.
 
Just Win Baby said:
I would vote for:

Modern era players:
  • Ronde Barber
  • Torry Holt
  • Darelle Revis
  • Joe Thomas
  • Zach Thomas
Coach/Contributor - Don Coryell
Click to expand...
The player I feel strongest about is Zach Thomas and then next I would love to see Barber get voted into the HoF
Excellent list, agree on all of them although it irks me how few wins a team can accumulate with a HoF Left Tackle for 10 years as the pillar of their OL.
This might be Zach Thomas last year of eligibility, he should have been voted through already.
 
Ministry of Pain said:
This might be Zach Thomas last year of eligibility, he should have been voted through already.
Click to expand...

He last played in 2008. That should mean his first year of eligibility was 2014. I believe modern era players get 15 years of eligibility to make it in through the regular (non-senior) process, which means his last year of eligibility should be 2028.

I agree he should be in already. I would have voted for him in at least the past two classes, would have to look back further to see if I included him in my list in prior years in these Shark Pool threads.
 
Reggie Wayne gives me pause. Long time gem, no doubt, but was he an elite top WR for 4-5 years?I think he's more like 8th best many seasons and need to go to PFR
 
Has everyone forgot about Joe Thomas? I see a lot of arguments for other nominees on this list, but no one has yet to make a case for Joe Thomas. So, I might as well be the one to make a case for the guy. He never missed a game, and he stayed in Cleveland his entire career even when the opportunity to go elsewhere came up. So, Joe Thomas should definitely be a lock for Canton this year.
 
Yogibear said:
Has everyone forgot about Joe Thomas? I see a lot of arguments for other nominees on this list, but no one has yet to make a case for Joe Thomas. So, I might as well be the one to make a case for the guy. He never missed a game, and he stayed in Cleveland his entire career even when the opportunity to go elsewhere came up. So, Joe Thomas should definitely be a lock for Canton this year.
Click to expand...

@BroncoFreak_2K3 and me both had him in our lists. :shrug:
 
Yogibear said:
Has everyone forgot about Joe Thomas? I see a lot of arguments for other nominees on this list, but no one has yet to make a case for Joe Thomas. So, I might as well be the one to make a case for the guy. He never missed a game, and he stayed in Cleveland his entire career even when the opportunity to go elsewhere came up. So, Joe Thomas should definitely be a lock for Canton this year.
Click to expand...
I listed that he had the second highest HOF Monitor Score of these candidates and was rated as the 5th best OT of all time. He doesn’t need anyone to make a case for him.

IMO, that’s what makes a HOFer. When people have to argue if someone should be in, that means that player isn’t a clear cut HOFer. But the NFL can’t get clear and obvious right on instant replay, so who knows.
 
Anarchy99 said:
Not that HOF Monitor Score is the best metric for this, but it's at least a way to do a baseline comparison . . .

HOF MONITOR SCORES:
Zach Thomas - 114.30 (6th among ILB, average HOF ILB is 108.63)
Joe Thomas - 112.98 (5th among T, average HOF T is 94.56)
Darrelle Revis - 112.23 (8th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Patrick Willis - 109.60 (8th among ILB, average HOF ILB is 108.63)
Reggie Wayne - 108.64 (11th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
Torry Holt - 106.72 (13th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
DeMarcus Ware - 96.83 (9th among OLB, average HOF OLB is 106.40)
Andre Johnson - 93.41 (19th among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)
Dwight Freeney - 86.05 (15th among DE, average HOF DE is 104.25)
Ronde Barber - 85.43 (23rd among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Jared Allen - 70.65 (21st among DE, average HOF DE is 104.25)
Darren Woodson - 64.83 (44th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Willie Anderson - 59.53 (28th among T, average HOF T is 94.56)
Albert Lewis - 50.50 (67th among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Devin Hester - 49.90 (71st among WR, average HOF WR is 103.63)

Chuck Howley - 70.70 (18th among OLB, average HOF OLB is 106.40)
Ken Riley - 54.85 (62nd among DB, average HOF DB is 99.46)
Joe Klecko - 46.58 (39th among DT, average HOF DT is 109.90)
Click to expand...
It might not be the best, but it does line up decently with what I would say. The top 3 are clear HOF'ers. Willis was great, but a shortish career for a HOF'er. I would put him in though. Allen is probably the guy I would say is next most deserving. He dominated more than any of the others on this list. I can see a good case for Wayne, Holt, and Ware, but I am fine with a HOF without them. I don't see any of the others with great cases.
 
Revis is probably the best Jet I've ever seen (Curtis Martin probably 2nd) and he's obviously deserving. But with the way he constantly jerked the team around(flat out mailed it in during his 2nd stint with the team)....and then winning the title in New England, its hard to be get amped up about it.

Klecko before my time, but still cool to see him get in.
 
TLEF316 said:
Revis is probably the best Jet I've ever seen (Curtis Martin probably 2nd) and he's obviously deserving. But with the way he constantly jerked the team around(flat out mailed it in during his 2nd stint with the team)....and then winning the title in New England, its hard to be get amped up about it.

Klecko before my time, but still cool to see him get in.
Click to expand...
I'd like to put a vote in for Wesley Walker

www.pro-football-reference.com

Wesley Walker Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Wesley Walker. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

I watched him a lot when I was a very young Miami Dolphins fan and Walker used to routinely light us up.
His stats might not look very impressive in the modern NFL but his ypc(late 70s) and 71 TDs are very impressive for the era he played and who exactly was throwing to him?
Richard Todd for a chunk of it

Not a Hall of Famer, not the best to ever wear the green uniform but he was a tremendous player and on another team i think he could have put a HoF career together.
Jets in '85 and '86 went 11-5, 10-6, those are 2 of his best seasons and he was old at that point.
I think I agree with you on Revis but I also share that same bad taste of some things he did in his career.
 
Revis Island in the Hall?

Toot toot. Hey, he did what he had to do to get paid. And I don't think he mailed it in. He got old in that time frame (his 2nd stint, that is).
 
Must have posted about the HOF in a different thread but got 4 of the 5 modern ones. I didn't think 2 CBs would go in together, so I thought Barber would have to wait another year. My 5th guy was Willis, but I'm willing to accept my valuation of LBs is very different than the consensus, I thought both Z. Thomas and Willis>Urlacher, and I say that as a 30+ year Bears fan.

I don't want to disparage guys, especially ones who have passed on, but Ken Riley and to a lesser extent, Joe Klecko would have been very low on my list for ever being HOFers. I know its the Senior finalists, but they were certainly better candidates at those positions. Is Klecko even a top-25 DT all-time? Is Riley a top-50 CB? I feel like neither guy was the best player at their position group on their own team during their careers, that was Mark Gastineau and Lemar Parrish. Love that Chuck Howley finally got in though, arguably a top-5 OLB off all-time in my eyes. Still to this day, the only player to win Super Bowl MVP from the losing team.

Anyway, really glad for Joe Thomas especially. He was one of the top-5 OTs off all-time in my opinion, and just had the rotten luck of playing for the Browns. Had to have been rough being arguably the best player at your position for a decade straight, and not even getting to play in a single playoff game. Poor guy was on more 0-16 teams than he was playoff teams.

ETA: Since it was in some other thread, I'll say it again here. How does Kevin Williams not make the finalist round even? Dude was the key member on one of the best run defenses of the last 20 years, and unlike Pat, was also a great pass rusher. Again, speaking as a Bears fan, I was always more afraid of Kevin Williams than Jared Allen, though very afraid of both.
 
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jobarules said:
Ronde Barber? Really? Over Patrick Willis? Over Dwight Freeney?
Click to expand...

Barber is very deserving.
  • 1st team All Pro 3 times and 2nd team All Pro 2 times
  • Most consecutive starts at CB (200) and DB (215) in NFL history
  • Only player in NFL history with 45+ interceptions and 25+ sacks
  • #29 in career starts (232)
  • #47 all time in interceptions (47)
  • #3 all time in passes defended (197) -- tracked since 1999
  • #25 all time in combined tackles (1251)
  • #10 all time in solo tackles (1044)
  • #70 all time in tackles for loss (88) -- at cornerback
  • #4 all time in non-offensive TDs (14), behind only Hester, Deion, and Rod Woodson
  • Very strong contributor in the 2002 postseason that culminated with TB winning the Super Bowl -- in 3 games, Barber had 11 combined tackles, 1 sack, 2 forced fumbles, 10 passes defended, and 2 interceptions, including an interception returned 92 yards for a TD
 
Just Win Baby said:
jobarules said:
Ronde Barber? Really? Over Patrick Willis? Over Dwight Freeney?
Click to expand...

Barber is very deserving.
  • 1st team All Pro 3 times and 2nd team All Pro 2 times
  • Most consecutive starts at CB (200) and DB (215) in NFL history
  • Only player in NFL history with 45+ interceptions and 25+ sacks
  • #29 in career starts (232)
  • #47 all time in interceptions (47)
  • #3 all time in passes defended (197) -- tracked since 1999
  • #25 all time in combined tackles (1251)
  • #10 all time in solo tackles (1044)
  • #70 all time in tackles for loss (88) -- at cornerback
  • #4 all time in non-offensive TDs (14), behind only Hester, Deion, and Rod Woodson
  • Very strong contributor in the 2002 postseason that culminated with TB winning the Super Bowl -- in 3 games, Barber had 11 combined tackles, 1 sack, 2 forced fumbles, 10 passes defended, and 2 interceptions, including an interception returned 92 yards for a TD
Click to expand...
I never really thought of him as a shut down corner or HOF type player. More Hall of the Very Good. I know this **** is all subjective. 3 All-Pros, 4 Pro Bowls in 16 years is not really anything special. 16 years so more of a compiler IMO (but I do think he deserves some credit for playing 16 years). Pro Football Reference had him below the average HOF PER score. Whatever, he's in now. Obviously not going to win any debate about it now. Congrats to him.

PFR HOF Monitor: 81.43 (30th among DB, average HOF DB is 98.02)

Meanwhile, Willis 5 All-Pros, 7 Pro-Bowls in 8 years, and PER score of 110 which is 8th for LBs
 
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