Pro-Life Christians: How do you rationalize miscarriages? (1 Viewer)

[Zow]

The bigger question is how do they rationalize IVF or egg donor. I have an acquaintance or two that have had fertility issues and are very anti-abortion. Yet, I am pretty sure there are some frozen/discarded fertilized eggs that weren't used and will never be used that were part of the process that helped them have kids despite the infertility. These are the same ones that were #####ing on Facebook about the recent law passed in New York.

They don’t. The church told my wife and I that we were sinning. 

 

[The Commish]

Do you know someone whose had a miscarriage and lost an infant a few months old to sudden infant death syndrome?  How would they compare the two?  Know anyone that's been a victim of infanticide?  

yes...us.

 

[The Commish]

Pssst

Spoiler

There isn't some magic man in the sky.  The seeming random way miscarriages happen and/or females are prone to miscarriages happening are exactly as you would expect in nature without divine intervention.

And Commish's argument doesn't hold a drop of water.  It's completely inaccurate to state if God made the rules to exclude miscarriages it would keep people from being exposed to the worst life has to offer:  A) it's not even close to the worst life has to offer in that category and B) If he's god, he can make the rules anything he wants.  Imagine that, a religious person making up a rule for god to follow, lol.    

Nope.  I am saying there is no other way to have the potential for complete self awareness than to be allowed to be exposed to the absolute worst this world has to offer and the absolute best this world has to offer.  Any curtailing at either end skews that ability.

To the twists you keep trying to put in here like the bold......how do you know it sucks not to have an arm?  It's different sure.  If most everyone had one arm, would people then say "it must suck to have two"?  

From a Christian theological perspective, it's made clear that the world we live in is not controlled by God, so "God placed millions of innocent, starving children on this earth...." starts from a completely false premise if you are speaking with someone of that perspective.  The world is not typically viewed by Christians as a place where God is actively involved like some sort of puppet master.

 Let me rephrase the bold to be clearer as I can see how you thought I meant something I didn't.

The only way to one would have the chance of reaching complete self awareness is to be exposed to everything (both good and bad) that this world has to offer.

So, as it pertains to this topic of reproduction, if it were simply a process that had success every time, there would never be the ability to appreciate every single thing that has to happen every single millisecond of a pregnancy to produce a healthy baby.  It would be a process taken for granted and we'd lose out on the experience of it's complexity leaving us less self aware than if we were able to experience the hardships of it all that ultimately aid in our understanding.

There's a reason the cliche "we learn the most when we fail" is so popular.  Failure is absolutely crucial to success....always has been, always will be.

THIS is more of what I meant before and I understand it didn't come across that way...apologies for the confusion.

 

[Captain Cranks]

 Let me rephrase the bold to be clearer as I can see how you thought I meant something I didn't.

The only way to one would have the chance of reaching complete self awareness is to be exposed to everything (both good and bad) that this world has to offer.

So, as it pertains to this topic of reproduction, if it were simply a process that had success every time, there would never be the ability to appreciate every single thing that has to happen every single millisecond of a pregnancy to produce a healthy baby.  It would be a process taken for granted and we'd lose out on the experience of it's complexity leaving us less self aware than if we were able to experience the hardships of it all that ultimately aid in our understanding.

There's a reason the cliche "we learn the most when we fail" is so popular.  Failure is absolutely crucial to success....always has been, always will be.

THIS is more of what I meant before and I understand it didn't come across that way...apologies for the confusion.

I appreciate the explanation, but I just don't think this logic holds up.  You don't need exposure to a lack of something to appreciate that something.   I don't appreciate my father because other people don't have their fathers.  I don't appreciate the tree outside because some places don't have trees.  You're completely discounting the intrinsic value of something and what it brings to us in absolute terms.  Do people take a lot of things for granted and not show appreciation?  Of course.  But that's a matter of perspective and focus, not the lack of a juxtaposition with something worse.     

 

[Captain Cranks]

So peeling back the layers here, the ultimate question is really "Why did God create things the way he did?"  And I will answer it by hypothesizing that he did it for selfish reasons.  If my goal was to have a relationship with someone that was 100% initiated by that someone, I'd to try and create an environment where almost all roads lead to crossing my path too.

Keep in mind, this is simply my guess as to why he created things the way he did based on what I believe his desires to be.  There really is no answer to this particular question in the Bible.  I don't know if other religions attempt to answer this question or not.

Based on the responses, it appears that Christians believe that life begins at conception and life can end naturally any time after that per the rules of biology which God created but doesn't intervene.  Therefore, a miscarriage is no different than a 2 year old dying of cancer is no different than an 80 year old dying of Alzheimers.  That all seems congruent and explains why it should not be considered abortion-like.   

So to your point, the question is why did God create the rules so that there are imperfections.  Why are there miscarriages?  Why are children born with disease?  As you've said, you don't have the answer and the Bible doesn't provide guidance on the subject.  I do continue to feel that if God were to create the rules, he is responsible for the outcomes whether he intervenes or not.  Those unborn babies didn't have to die, and to restate my point in my other post, we don't need to suffer the hardships of a miscarriage to appreciate the life of a baby.    

 

[msommer]

Based on the responses, it appears that Christians believe that life begins at conception and life can end naturally any time after that per the rules of biology which God created but doesn't intervene.  Therefore, a miscarriage is no different than a 2 year old dying of cancer is no different than an 80 year old dying of Alzheimers.  That all seems congruent and explains why it should not be considered abortion-like.   

So to your point, the question is why did God create the rules so that there are imperfections.  Why are there miscarriages?  Why are children born with disease?  As you've said, you don't have the answer and the Bible doesn't provide guidance on the subject.  I do continue to feel that if God were to create the rules, he is responsible for the outcomes whether he intervenes or not.  Those unborn babies didn't have to die, and to restate my point in my other post, we don't need to suffer the hardships of a miscarriage to appreciate the life of a baby.    

George Carlin would have a few words on the second paragraph I think.

 

[Captain Cranks]

George Carlin would have a few words on the second paragraph I think.

I still miss that dude... especially in the age of Trump.  

 

[The Commish]

Based on the responses, it appears that Christians believe that life begins at conception and life can end naturally any time after that per the rules of biology which God created but doesn't intervene.  Therefore, a miscarriage is no different than a 2 year old dying of cancer is no different than an 80 year old dying of Alzheimers.  That all seems congruent and explains why it should not be considered abortion-like.   

So to your point, the question is why did God create the rules so that there are imperfections.  Why are there miscarriages?  Why are children born with disease?  As you've said, you don't have the answer and the Bible doesn't provide guidance on the subject.  I do continue to feel that if God were to create the rules, he is responsible for the outcomes whether he intervenes or not.  Those unborn babies didn't have to die, and to restate my point in my other post, we don't need to suffer the hardships of a miscarriage to appreciate the life of a baby.    

Your question basically boils down to "why does God allow bad things to happen?"  I gave reasons above about relationship and all that stuff above, but maybe step back and think about it this way.  Imagine a world with no bad...none.  You don't even know the word/concept.  Can there be good in that world?  How/why not?

 

[shader]

Based on the responses, it appears that Christians believe that life begins at conception and life can end naturally any time after that per the rules of biology which God created but doesn't intervene.  Therefore, a miscarriage is no different than a 2 year old dying of cancer is no different than an 80 year old dying of Alzheimers.  That all seems congruent and explains why it should not be considered abortion-like.   

So to your point, the question is why did God create the rules so that there are imperfections.  Why are there miscarriages?  Why are children born with disease?  As you've said, you don't have the answer and the Bible doesn't provide guidance on the subject.  I do continue to feel that if God were to create the rules, he is responsible for the outcomes whether he intervenes or not.  Those unborn babies didn't have to die, and to restate my point in my other post, we don't need to suffer the hardships of a miscarriage to appreciate the life of a baby.    

Why are you changing the subject to God allowing suffering and pain?  That is a different, theological discussion that can have satisfying answers.

But I thought this thread was about human behavior? After all the OP was about abortion, a human decision.

 

[joffer]

Your question basically boils down to "why does God allow bad things to happen?"  I gave reasons above about relationship and all that stuff above, but maybe step back and think about it this way.  Imagine a world with no bad...none.  You don't even know the word/concept.  Can there be good in that world?  How/why not?

I almost replied right after the OP that he wasn’t asking about abortion/miscarriages, etc.  he was asking about the problem of evil.