Professional sports are in deep fiscal trouble (1 Viewer)

[shader]

I started realizing about 3-4 years ago, that the future of Pro sports is in serious trouble.

We are all semi-familiar with the problems in the NFL.

The NBA is also facing MAJOR issues.

I don't care much about hockey and MLB anymore, but I know that many franchises are also hurting in those sports.

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

In the NFL, in 2007 the salary cap was 109 million. In 2008 it was 116 million, and it went to 127 million in 2009.

These percentage increases would have us with salary caps close to half a billion dollars in 20 years.

The problem is that people around the country aren't seeing their salaries increase at all. People are losing jobs or seeing increases, if not decreases. This has been going on for a few years, and will go on for a few years more.

Simply put, the public can't afford the ticket prices, and teams can't afford not to have expensive ticket prices. It's a catch-22, and the only solution is for the players to take less money.

However, I think it's actually going to be very exciting in about 5 years for pro sports IF THEY HANDLE IT RIGHT.

First, there will be lockouts in every major sport. The owners have reached a point where they can't do anything else about the economy. Ironically, this begins in football..the sport that is still doing fine. However, the NFL players union is a horrible union, and the owners are beating the other leagues to the punch. The NFL will lockout the players and reverse the trend. The players will accept a new deal, or they won't make millions and try and market themselves to the economy in other areas....yeah right.

Second, MLB, the NBA and the NHL will have CONTRACTION!!!!! Contraction will be absolutely great for sports. The poor franchises will go bankrupt, and the talent pool will shrinken. This will give us better teams and less crap out there. The NBA could stand to lose 6 teams, MLB could lose 4-6 teams and the NHL could lose 6-8.

The athletes of the last 20 years are nothing more than the products of an economy that blew a bunch of money and was riddled with excess. Now that the internet boom, the housing boom and the inflated economy is over...athletes are going to have to start playing for the love of the game again. Which will be great for sports.

 

[Lehigh98]

My concern is that some risk losing their future fanbase by putting the games on later and later so kids can't watch them and also raising ticket prices so its harder for a family to afford the games with their children. I fondly remember going to multiple games with my family or tagging along with a friends family back in the 80's. I can't see taking my own children, let alone their friends as well to games that are $50-$100 for a seat. When these kids grow up, are they going to be as big of fans of these sports as we are now?

We've since made a habit of going to minor league games.

Front row tickets for the Lehigh Valley IronPigs (Phillies AAA affiliate) are only $14.

Hopefully we'll also be getting hockey via the former Philadelphia Phantoms soon too.

 

[NoCheese]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

 

[FavreCo]

I started realizing about 3-4 years ago, that the future of Pro sports is in serious trouble.

We are all semi-familiar with the problems in the NFL.

The NBA is also facing MAJOR issues.

I don't care much about hockey and MLB anymore, but I know that many franchises are also hurting in those sports.

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

In the NFL, in 2007 the salary cap was 109 million. In 2008 it was 116 million, and it went to 127 million in 2009.

These percentage increases would have us with salary caps close to half a billion dollars in 20 years.

You got that right. This is coming to an end. Once you price out the fans, then it all falls apart. The boom times are over just like they are for everything else. CNBC is airing 'House of Cards' today where housing outpaced the average persons ability to afford one. The cheerleaders back then said that it will never end. They were wrong of course. The same thing is now happening to sports.

 

[Da Guru]

Never understood how you can have a decent season in MLB and go from 1.5 a year to 5-6 million a year. What happened to going to 2, then 2.5, then 3, then 3.5?

 

[Zigg]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

Wouldn't this increase the TV contracts, which I assume bring in more money than attendance?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

How do you know it "simply cannot continue" or even do the "math" without any information on the revenue side? There's no reason the labor costs can't or shouldn't increase commensurate with revenue. I think the larger issue, from a long-term perspective, is the issue No Cheese raised. There is a death-cycle in progress in my opinion, as commercial breaks get longer and longer, the game becomes unwatchable as a televised sport. This may eventually impact the television contracts, as advertisers recognize that more and more fans are recording the games and skipping commercial breaks. Like many fans, if I'm watching at home, I never watch a game "live" anymore. The netoworks are obviously aware of this, and are doing more and more in-game marketing, which is getting annoying.

 

[shader]

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

How do you know it "simply cannot continue" or even do the "math" without any information on the revenue side? There's no reason the labor costs can't or shouldn't increase commensurate with revenue. I think the larger issue, from a long-term perspective, is the issue No Cheese raised. There is a death-cycle in progress in my opinion, as commercial breaks get longer and longer, the game becomes unwatchable as a televised sport. This may eventually impact the television contracts, as advertisers recognize that more and more fans are recording the games and skipping commercial breaks. Like many fans, if I'm watching at home, I never watch a game "live" anymore. The netoworks are obviously aware of this, and are doing more and more in-game marketing, which is getting annoying.

Math.At some point, it will be fiscally impossible to continue to raise the salary cap 5-10 percent. You've already seen that it's getting harder and harder for fans to justify paying the outrageous costs.

When a team increases their payroll by ten percent, they have to make it up in some way. That usually equals higher ticket prices, concessions, etc.

As I mentioned, in 20 years the payroll would be 500 million per team. That kind of payout just can't be supported by fans.

When teams say "enough" (as they are doing), there will be work stoppages. It's unavoidable.

I'd put the odds of a 2011 work stoppage at about 50%, possibly more.

 

[Black]

I appreciate and agree with the general premise of this thread, but am wondering what the other sources of revenue are, as well as other expenditures. Does anyone know what other things go on the revenue/expense sheets for an NFL team?

I was under the impression that rising ticket prices were also a function of the new $1B stadiums that are not receiving the public funding/subsidies they were in the past. What is interesting is that this seems like the age-old issue of how to expand a company. You can't make more revenue unless you build a new stadium, but you need the capital costs up front to build that stadium. You also don't want that stadium to be obsolete in 10 years. Still, seems like some restraint would help ensure you are making sound financial decisions.

The Dallas stadium seems ridiculous, and even being a few hours away and a big NFL fan, there's no way I'm going to take my family (or even go with a friend) to a 3 hour event where even just the parking starts at near $100.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

Wouldn't this increase the TV contracts, which I assume bring in more money than attendance?

Yes. The NFL is in NO danger. The league is feuled by free TV. The gates are icing on the cake of television revenue. And this past super Bowl is only going to make that pie bigger.Now if the owners want to be really-really stupid, start messing with the greatest cash cow since slavery by trying to go full blown pay-per-view.

A new, entertaining, start-up league would fill the void "that" fast - and succeed - if the NFL abandons over the air televison.

 

[NoCheese]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

Wouldn't this increase the TV contracts, which I assume bring in more money than attendance?

I don't know, but if I elect not to spend $300 for a family of 4 to watch a game, I would suspect it would be hard to equal that financial impact by me staying at home watching a game

 

[Floyd The Barber]

The Dallas stadium seems ridiculous, and even being a few hours away and a big NFL fan, there's no way I'm going to take my family (or even go with a friend) to a 3 hour event where even just the parking starts at near $100.

Seriously, parking is $100?

 

[shader]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

Wouldn't this increase the TV contracts, which I assume bring in more money than attendance?

Yes. The NFL is in NO danger. The league is feuled by free TV. The gates are icing on the cake of television revenue. And this past super Bowl is only going to make that pie bigger.Now if the owners want to be really-really stupid, start messing with the greatest cash cow since slavery by trying to go full blown pay-per-view.

A new, entertaining, start-up league would fill the void "that" fast - and succeed - if the NFL abandons over the air televison.

Ticket sales are about 25%. I know that the "fuel" is the TV revenue. Also, this post was primarily focused on MLB, NBA and NHL. The NFL is in great shape financially, because as long as you can draw the kinds of TV numbers that they are drawing, you will see networks forking over the money to broadcast NFL games.

That being said, we're still seeing growth ticket prices rise at a level that increasing numbers of people can't afford. The NFL has challenges, but it will survive.

I think one of the other major sports leagues might fold though within 3-5 years.

 

[az_prof]

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

How do you know it "simply cannot continue" or even do the "math" without any information on the revenue side? There's no reason the labor costs can't or shouldn't increase commensurate with revenue. I think the larger issue, from a long-term perspective, is the issue No Cheese raised. There is a death-cycle in progress in my opinion, as commercial breaks get longer and longer, the game becomes unwatchable as a televised sport. This may eventually impact the television contracts, as advertisers recognize that more and more fans are recording the games and skipping commercial breaks. Like many fans, if I'm watching at home, I never watch a game "live" anymore. The netoworks are obviously aware of this, and are doing more and more in-game marketing, which is getting annoying.

Cletius is absolutely correct. In fact, this sounds like Owner rhetoric and propaganda. YOu make a number of assumptions that are not verified. First, if teams are hurting so much name one team in a major sport that has gone bankrupt. Ever. Name one league that has gone bankrupt. Ever. We just went through the greatest recession since the Great Depression and many businesses went bankrupt--but to my knowledge no major sports business came close.We all know player salaries are going up faster than average salaries. But you can't just look at that and say it isn't sustainable. Salaries of health care workers have been going up faster than average for decades but there is no indication that is going to change without government intervention. Salaries of CEOs go up faster than the average too. The St. Louis Rams are about to be sold: is the owner taking a loss on the sale? What will be the owner's profit on this sale?

To know if this is sustainable or not you would need to know about media revenues. If media revenues taper off then that WILL impact salaries and profitability. Ticket sales? Again, we lived through a major recession and how many stadiums suffered from empty seats despite high prices. Major league sports have already priced regular families out of the stadium long ago; but there apparently is a sizable population of wealthy individuals and businesses who can pay outrages prices for luxury boxes--hence the demand on the public to build new stadiums with amenities and luxury boxes for the rich.

Until the owners open their accounting books and show everyone exactly how much they make and how much profit the owners are enjoying it is impossible to make predictions about the future finances of sports. The public's interest in and willingness to support (either with ticket purchases, T-shirts and jerseys, and media sponsorships) sports appears unlimited.

 

[CalBear]

Plus, w/ everyone purchasing 50" HDTV's now, who goes to games anymore when you can kick back on the couch w/ a beverage, tape the game, pause when you need to, fast forward through halftime, and not have to deal w/ traffic? With some TV's, it feels like you're there at the game. That technology will only get better. They'll have to start charging people to watch games or do things at the live event that can't be replicated by watching TV.

Wouldn't this increase the TV contracts, which I assume bring in more money than attendance?

I don't know, but if I elect not to spend $300 for a family of 4 to watch a game, I would suspect it would be hard to equal that financial impact by me staying at home watching a game

Depends if someone else buys those four tickets or not, right? Most franchises are having no problems selling out the stadium.

 

[SuperJohn96]

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

How do you know it "simply cannot continue" or even do the "math" without any information on the revenue side? There's no reason the labor costs can't or shouldn't increase commensurate with revenue. I think the larger issue, from a long-term perspective, is the issue No Cheese raised. There is a death-cycle in progress in my opinion, as commercial breaks get longer and longer, the game becomes unwatchable as a televised sport. This may eventually impact the television contracts, as advertisers recognize that more and more fans are recording the games and skipping commercial breaks. Like many fans, if I'm watching at home, I never watch a game "live" anymore. The netoworks are obviously aware of this, and are doing more and more in-game marketing, which is getting annoying.

Cletius is absolutely correct. In fact, this sounds like Owner rhetoric and propaganda. YOu make a number of assumptions that are not verified. First, if teams are hurting so much name one team in a major sport that has gone bankrupt. Ever. Name one league that has gone bankrupt. Ever. We just went through the greatest recession since the Great Depression and many businesses went bankrupt--but to my knowledge no major sports business came close.

You obviously don't follow the NHL or CFL...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

:When a team increases their payroll by ten percent, they have to make it up in some way. That usually equals higher ticket prices, concessions, etc.:

You've never read Bill James have you? Lets pretend that the owners somehow convince the players to agree to a 5 year freeze on the salary cap. Do you think the ticket prices, concessions, TV packages, etc. will also be frozen?

 

[Rovers]

The Jets have left their fans behind, that's for sure. For second deck seats on the 30, the PSL is $15,000 for each seat. So, that's 30 grand before you even have the privledge of shelling out another $300 per seat per game. Some PSL's are as high as $25,000 each seat. Even if you just want to go to stub hub or something, you can expect to pay about $1000 for two decent seats for one game. Add other costs, it will cost about 1200. The club won't buy back the PSL's either. You would have to resell it on your own.

The upper deck is not PSL, but they run $125 each. The upper deck is selling out, but the PSL seats have already been reduced in price because they aren't selling. Keep in mind, the PSL does not entitle you to first refusal for other events, Giants fans are also paying PSL's for the same seats. All of this for a stadium that doesn't even have a retractable roof.

I won't be going to any Jets games unless I luck into some corporate seats for free. There will be a lot of empty seats in NJ this year. Blackouts? Who knows.

Here is a link to the Jets seating chart, with prices:

http://www.newjetsstadium.com/seating-chart.html

 

[Clinton]

First, if teams are hurting so much name one team in a major sport that has gone bankrupt. Ever.

It's not a major sport, but the WNBA's Detroit Shock moved to Tulsa. The reason? The economy is so bad in Detroit that people stopped going to the games because they can't afford them. When finances are tight, people start cutting out unnecessary entertainment expenses. In this case it was the Shock, but if finances were really that tough then why not a team from a more major sport? Especially, as people noted, you can watch at home on you large screen TV that gives you a better view of the game.

Name one league that has gone bankrupt. Ever.

CBA (Continental Basketball Association)February 8, 2001 - the CBA suspends play and folds. The blind trust that was to find a new owner for the league gives up. The league has over $2 million in debts. The teams are offered back to their original owners for $1.00, simple consideration. A few owners take the offer. Many more refuse and their clubs are shuttered.

February 24, 2001 - 18 months after Thomas purchased the CBA, the league declared bankruptcy.

NASL (North American Soccer League)

1978 - The league decides to expand to 24 teams. Unfortunately, the spiralling costs begin to take their toll. Although attendances continue to rise, most teams admit to financial problems.

1981 - The NASL collapses, losing 17 of its franchises in just four

years. The league is eventually closed down in March 1985.

Great thread.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

:When a team increases their payroll by ten percent, they have to make it up in some way. That usually equals higher ticket prices, concessions, etc.:

You've never read Bill James have you? Lets pretend that the owners somehow convince the players to agree to a 5 year freeze on the salary cap. Do you think the ticket prices, concessions, TV packages, etc. will also be frozen?

Ticket prices are not affected by player salaries, which is why Notre Dame tickets are more expensive than Chicago Bears tickets.Ticket prices are set to maximize gate receipts. If all the players decided to play for free this season, ticket prices would not go down because of it. Likewise, if players' salaries were to triple or quadruple this season, ticket prices would not increase because of it. (If owners could increase gate revenues by raising ticket prices, they'd already be raised -- regardless of what happens with players salaries.)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Math.At some point, it will be fiscally impossible to continue to raise the salary cap 5-10 percent.

In the NFL, the salary cap is a percentage of league revenues. If the players are making more each year, it's because the owners are as well. That can continue indefinitely, it seems to me.

 

[QuizGuy66]

The Jets have left their fans behind, that's for sure. For second deck seats on the 30, the PSL is $15,000 for each seat. So, that's 30 grand before you even have the privledge of shelling out another $300 per seat per game. Some PSL's are as high as $25,000 each seat. Even if you just want to go to stub hub or something, you can expect to pay about $1000 for two decent seats for one game. Add other costs, it will cost about 1200. The club won't buy back the PSL's either. You would have to resell it on your own.

The upper deck is not PSL, but they run $125 each. The upper deck is selling out, but the PSL seats have already been reduced in price because they aren't selling. Keep in mind, the PSL does not entitle you to first refusal for other events, Giants fans are also paying PSL's for the same seats. All of this for a stadium that doesn't even have a retractable roof.

I won't be going to any Jets games unless I luck into some corporate seats for free. There will be a lot of empty seats in NJ this year. Blackouts? Who knows.

Here is a link to the Jets seating chart, with prices:

http://www.newjetsstadium.com/seating-chart.html

I think this had an effect even this year with people giving up their PSL's early. I was very surprised to be able to score a pair of front-row tickets to Bengals-Jets in August from ticketmaster. I kept looking to the site, just out of curiosity to see what could be had for other games and when. You could get 10 mezzanine seats together for Jets-Dolphins, a big rivalry game, just a week before the game. Even with the Jets at 4-3 and in the mix for the division lead. It was pretty shocking. Can only imagine it'll be that much tougher with higher ticket prices and a larger stadium - even in the first year coming off that playoff run.Something tells me there won't be blackouts in the NYC-market under any circumstance. Doubt they'll even threaten to do so.

-QG

 

[GregR_2]

While much can be said as to the causes of these issues, in reality there is only one problem:

MATH

The general salary cap increases every year at a rate of between 5 and 10 percent.

That simply cannot continue. The math doesn't support it.

How do you know it "simply cannot continue" or even do the "math" without any information on the revenue side? There's no reason the labor costs can't or shouldn't increase commensurate with revenue. I think the larger issue, from a long-term perspective, is the issue No Cheese raised. There is a death-cycle in progress in my opinion, as commercial breaks get longer and longer, the game becomes unwatchable as a televised sport. This may eventually impact the television contracts, as advertisers recognize that more and more fans are recording the games and skipping commercial breaks. Like many fans, if I'm watching at home, I never watch a game "live" anymore. The netoworks are obviously aware of this, and are doing more and more in-game marketing, which is getting annoying.

Math.At some point, it will be fiscally impossible to continue to raise the salary cap 5-10 percent. You've already seen that it's getting harder and harder for fans to justify paying the outrageous costs.

When a team increases their payroll by ten percent, they have to make it up in some way. That usually equals higher ticket prices, concessions, etc.

As I mentioned, in 20 years the payroll would be 500 million per team. That kind of payout just can't be supported by fans.

When teams say "enough" (as they are doing), there will be work stoppages. It's unavoidable.

I'd put the odds of a 2011 work stoppage at about 50%, possibly more.

This gives the impression that the salary cap system is the reverse of how it works. Or at least, has worked under the CBA we've had in the past. The cap is based on a percentage of league revenues. Not the other way around. The cap goes up 10% as a result of revenues having gone up around 10%. If revenues stayed completely flat the salary cap would have stayed almost completely flat. It isn't the cap driving teams to need to increase revenues to pay a cap increase that had to be made. It's the other way around... the increase of revenues adds more money to the cap.

I said almost because the exact percentage of revenues does change some from year to year, but only about a half percent. Right now it's around 60-61% of revenues IIRC, and can't go higher without a new CBA. So that 10% salary cap increase in some given year might have been a 9.5% increase in revenues and a 0.5% increase in the percentage of revenues the players get.

So if the current CBA was continued, no, the situation you're painting isn't the problem. There is no guaranteed raise of the salary cap built in that owners have to frantically try to increase revenues to meet. The owners are trying to increase revenues to make more money themselves, and the players get more as a by product of that.

Where the problem comes in with the current situation is the size of the percent that players get, and that the owners are on the hook for the cost of building up revenue too. Let's say the NFL builds NFL shops in malls, and this investment costs them 30 cents for each dollar of revenue they will get back. Well, the players get 60% of revenues. So each dollar coming back in, 60 cents of it goes to the player. 40 cents goes to the owner. He's already 30 cents out of pocket to generate that dollar, so the owner ultimately gained 10 cents from the investment while the players gained 60 cents.

I'd agree that the players make a higher percentage of revenues than they need to. But the way the situation was stated is a bit misleading.

 

[QuizGuy66]

First, if teams are hurting so much name one team in a major sport that has gone bankrupt. Ever.

It's not a major sport, but the WNBA's Detroit Shock moved to Tulsa. The reason? The economy is so bad in Detroit that people stopped going to the games because they can't afford them. When finances are tight, people start cutting out unnecessary entertainment expenses. In this case it was the Shock, but if finances were really that tough then why not a team from a more major sport? Especially, as people noted, you can watch at home on you large screen TV that gives you a better view of the game.

Name one league that has gone bankrupt. Ever.

CBA (Continental Basketball Association)February 8, 2001 - the CBA suspends play and folds. The blind trust that was to find a new owner for the league gives up. The league has over $2 million in debts. The teams are offered back to their original owners for $1.00, simple consideration. A few owners take the offer. Many more refuse and their clubs are shuttered.

February 24, 2001 - 18 months after Thomas purchased the CBA, the league declared bankruptcy.

NASL (North American Soccer League)

1978 - The league decides to expand to 24 teams. Unfortunately, the spiralling costs begin to take their toll. Although attendances continue to rise, most teams admit to financial problems.

1981 - The NASL collapses, losing 17 of its franchises in just four

years. The league is eventually closed down in March 1985.

Great thread.

NASL is a bit of a different case in the sense that you had an incredibly extreme disparity in what teams had in terms of resources and willingness to spend. The Cosmos could not be contended with financially and they overexpanded way too soon. MLS has been built on a bit steadier of a model (though they too are under threat of a work stoppage right now). I think the NHL is probably the most likely of the Big 4 to lose a team, but they might well avoid it via re-Candadianization (heh, yeah that's a made up word) of the league to some extent. The market correction will go across the board, probably. The NHL actually already faced some of this when they lost the '05 season and they basically wrote down all the player contracts by 24%. -QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

If I'm not mistaken both the NHL and NBA are anticipating a REDUCTION of the salary cap for next year, no?

While it seems very very likely the NFL will go first I think the potential exists that the NBA labor situation will be the most explosive one.

-QG

 

[Black]

The Dallas stadium seems ridiculous, and even being a few hours away and a big NFL fan, there's no way I'm going to take my family (or even go with a friend) to a 3 hour event where even just the parking starts at near $100.

Seriously, parking is $100?

My bad, it is $75 for premium, reserved parking.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Stadium

 

[BassNBrew]

The Dallas stadium seems ridiculous, and even being a few hours away and a big NFL fan, there's no way I'm going to take my family (or even go with a friend) to a 3 hour event where even just the parking starts at near $100.

Seriously, parking is $100?

My bad, it is $75 for premium, reserved parking.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Stadium

Well if I get to ding Jerry's car with my doors I expect to pay $75 for that privilege.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

:When a team increases their payroll by ten percent, they have to make it up in some way. That usually equals higher ticket prices, concessions, etc.:

You've never read Bill James have you? Lets pretend that the owners somehow convince the players to agree to a 5 year freeze on the salary cap. Do you think the ticket prices, concessions, TV packages, etc. will also be frozen?

Ticket prices are not affected by player salaries, which is why Notre Dame tickets are more expensive than Chicago Bears tickets.Ticket prices are set to maximize gate receipts. If all the players decided to play for free this season, ticket prices would not go down because of it. Likewise, if players' salaries were to triple or quadruple this season, ticket prices would not increase because of it. (If owners could increase gate revenues by raising ticket prices, they'd already be raised -- regardless of what happens with players salaries.)

Of course.

 

[Donnybrook]

Deep fiscal trouble? I just read that commissioner Roger Goodell made more than $9 million in 2008.

 

[kaa]

Pro sports may have a certain life cycle to them.

1. It starts out as a new innovative game with a small, loyal following. The top priority is growth via national exposure. Getting your product on free TV or basic cable.

2. Popularity grows and the money starts rolling in.

3. A shift towards exclusivity begins. Games get moved to a premium cable channel. You tell the media and corporations that they cannot use the name of your championship game in commercials unless they are licensed to. Ticket prices skyrocket and the common fan cannot afford to go to games anymore.

4. Free TV gets phased out in favor of milking fans by putting everything on premium broadcasts. The sport begins to exit the public consciousness as there is no easy access any longer. Popularity declines.

5. Competition from smaller, hungrier sports leagues aim at fans who aren't wealthy and just want a good time. The hardcore fans begin drifting away to the new sport.

6. Popularity plummets, and the league folds.

 

[Bri]

The NBA ref thing was very bad. I also think Iverson's almost mockery of Favre wasn't good add to that the all-star oops and Iverson hasn't been so good for the NBA this year. The NBA however can easily be rejuvenated by a single super star or a handful of stars having highlight reel games-moreso than any other sport, IMO, the NBA is about sitting in the seats(or in front of the TV) and having one guy wow ya. Kevin Durant could be the next superstar. Blake Griffin could resurrect the Clips. They're coming down the assembly line, don't worry.

Hockey hasn't been as good since the greatest player ever retired and Mario wasn't a smooth torch carrier to those fans in anyway. They need a uberstud again soon.

For baseball, buying a championship causes me to lose interest. Otherwise, they have a good product and a lengthy history and tradition that they can survive bad times just fine.

The recession surely has hurt sports a little more than usual but I don't think it's super bad yet at all. These owners are supposed to be wise businessmen and it has become apparent that some aren't, but if you look closely they've been reacting well for the most part.

The Dallas Cowboys new gigantic stadium setting the record for football fans and then recently for NBA fans at a game does not indicate struggle at all. TV numbers are quite favorable for football and team's selling out seats are too. Let's not forget the expensive private seat licenses that teams are doing and fans are (begrudgingly) grabbing them up. That's extra gravy for each team.

Favre jersey/merchandise sales and those that bought Ocho or Vick totally show positive figures for the league.

I do think in several sports, the losers have lost a long time and don't show signs of hope. Fans can only last so long I mean God Bless the Lions fans that are sticking through this and hoping in Schwartz. When's there last championship win? The AFL days? There's gotta be a point (20 years?) that fans start to wonder if their loyalty has been foolish or pointless or somesuch.

In Buffalo, they sold games to Toronto and make as much in 2-3 games a year there as they do with the other 5-6 at home. That's a nice infusion of $ for a then struggling franchise in a tiny city that probably doesn't have enough fans or at least can't possibly compete with all the dollars that NYC and LA fans can generate. There's the play in Europe and 2? 3? years ago in Mexico. Pro bowl being moved to Miami maybe wasn't the best idea as Hawaii is good for college and pro football so it's a good market to visit. Germany had most of the NFLE teams and I saw the other day a stat about how many fans in Germany pay for satellite or online access to NFL games and it's mindboggling. The NFL oWns Germany.

Last I read hockey was committing to overseas games and NBA was strongly considering some. There's money out there for them to chase. I'd bet Canada has plenty of money for these American teams to take too. They just have to figure out how to get it from a business sense.

There's high school hoops playoffs now in most states and then NCAA march madness and you can't watch either and not think the NBA has a goldmine with all those fans wanting to see their players succeed at the next level and America's love for the game. It's there, give em' time.

Charlotte going under sure seemed predictable after bouncing them around place to place. They did poorly and the college game in carolina is superior. If Jordan played for the Bobcats or Hornets, Carolina fans may have been bigger fans. Worthwhile try for NBA business but it didn't pan out.

 

[gump]

On the Licensed end, we've seen a steady decline in all leagues over the last 3 years...driven by very poor jersey sales. Jerseys are being traded down to player tees, basic tees, fashion tees, etc. It looks to have hit the floor though in Fall '08. F'09 was generally planned down around 30% for many non-jersey manufacturers, but the at once demand was thru the roof...and most got their numbers back up to around flat or even up. That was not the case with Rbk though...because of the jersey numbers.

In MLB, S'10 will likely be flat with S'09. Spring Training revenue is expected to be up.

The NFL onfield deal comes up in '12, MLB in '14. A lot of vendors (Nike) will be throwing some major $ at the NFL...MLB we'll see.

From the smaller leagues....Nascar is in the most Licensed trouble. Diecast sales are tanking, and Walmart has ruined trackside sales. The NHL is steady, but low. The NBA is doing ok, driven by the popularity if Lebron, Kobe, Wade, etc.

Keep in mind that the leagues have protection in the licensed world because of the guarantees that each vendor agrees on to get their exclusivity. If the vendor has a short fall...too bad. The league still gets their check.

 

[MaddHatter]

My concern is that some risk losing their future fanbase by putting the games on later and later so kids can't watch them and also raising ticket prices so its harder for a family to afford the games with their children. I fondly remember going to multiple games with my family or tagging along with a friends family back in the 80's. I can't see taking my own children, let alone their friends as well to games that are $50-$100 for a seat. When these kids grow up, are they going to be as big of fans of these sports as we are now?We've since made a habit of going to minor league games. Front row tickets for the Lehigh Valley IronPigs (Phillies AAA affiliate) are only $14.Hopefully we'll also be getting hockey via the former Philadelphia Phantoms soon too.

Go Ironpigs!