Project Veritas - Rigging the Election videos (1 Viewer)

[Jrodicus]

Thoughts?

Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

Rigging the Election - Video II: Mass Voter Fraud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs

 

[LittlePhatty]

If someone says "I have something and will release it next week at 12:00, visit my website" then it isn't news. It's click-bait.

And O'Keefe never has to show you all his failed attempts at trolling, he just edits things together that will play to a certain gullable audience.

 

[Quez]

This is a pretty big deal.  It is the #1 trending video on YouTube.  They admit on camera "Bird doing", and causing violence at rallies that injured 2 cops in Chicago.  The bussing in of voters is another major scandal.  Let's see if the FBI chooses to look into these things.

 

[Quez]

The videos are probably staged. No one cares anyway except dip####s voting for Trump. Non-story.

I don't think people would be resigning & getting fired if it was staged.

 

[shader]

Pretty interesting videos, especially the first. There is enough there to start an investigation.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

If someone says "I have something and will release it next week at 12:00, visit my website" then it isn't news. It's click-bait.

And O'Keefe never has to show you all his failed attempts at trolling, he just edits things together that will play to a certain gullable audience.

How do any of your allegations make the actual admissions we've seen on the released videos untrue?  And if the admissions by the head of Americans United for Change were untrue, then why did that organization fire him as though he gave away organization secrets?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/301690-okeefe-claims-another-scalp-with-new-video

A national field director for the left-leaning Americans United for Change was fired on Monday after the release of an undercover video that showed him saying he hired mentally ill people to protest at Donald Trump events.

Scott Foval, the now former national field director for Americans United for Change, describes in one video how he convinces people to do “conflict engagement” at rallies for the GOP presidential nominee.

 

[Northern Voice]

 

[ArbyMelt]

Haven't watched them yet, but I read that 1 guy in the video was fired and another resigned. So there has to be some truth to them? And the Creamer guy (who resigned) visited the White House 300+ times and met directly with Obama 47 times? Its nothing, carry on.

 

[Quez]

Guys like Splotch & Northern Voice are the problem with our country.  They are so obsessed with being on the winning team that they cannot even acknowledge blatant corruption.

 

[Boston]

Libs don't care...as long as it produces a win it's all good...

 

[Quez]

the Creamer guy (who resigned) visited the White House 300+ times and met directly with Obama 47 times? Its nothing, carry on.

This is HUGE.  Obama has some explaining to do.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I guess I'm not afraid to look at claims based on sources so I will talk about this.

First of all - ok about the source -

- The editing issue - O'Keefe IIRC did get caught improperly snipping to leave out context in the abortion 'investigation' IIRC. I don't remember how all that fell out eventually but I think that happened. And once you lose people you lose them, at least people you're trying to convince.

- Another O'Keefe issue - we had our own little run in in NO with him. O'Keefe actually - and this is incredibly stupid - broke into a telephone closet at the US District Court building in NO to essentially tap or screw with Senator Mary Landrieu's phones. This was ostensibly to prove some point about her lying about answering her phone about taking opposition calls on ACA. He got caught. Badly. But that's not the worst of it. Because after he was caught and embarrassed he then went on a vendetta against the US Attorney and even showed up at his doorstep, scaring him and his family and going on some rant. Surprising a US Attorney at his home, even if just to yell obscenities at him or shock interview him, is also incredibly stupid because it's a good way to get shot. Btw the US Attorney involved was just about the most, best anti-corruption USA I ever heard or read about. Somehow O'Keefe thought he was the enemy.

About the content:

- Astroturfing protests goes on. Yep. We have known about this for years. I will say use of the word 'anarchy' is horrible. It's also totally legal.

- The voter fraud thing. Honestly I don't know where you live but that has been going on here and other urban centers for years, often against other Democrats. This is some 'shocker' video. The GOP and even some Democrats when it suits them have been countering this for years. With lawsuits and laws restricting when and how people can vote. It is a constant ongoing struggle.

- Even if (if) all of this were true (and you really have not explained what is claimed here) it would have zero impact on the final impact of the election. Trump is losing because he is an all time worst candidate. I mean terrible, he might lose AZ, TX, GA, UT, it's all on the table. This does not make a lick of difference because he is just a horrible candidate in every practical way.

- This idea that the election is rigged is really dangerous and wrong. It's awful. When did Republicans become white Al Sharptons? I'd really like to know this. This Jesse Jackson grievance, 'rigged against us'/Malcolm X mentality, when did it start? When did an orange-white messiah promising entitlements for whites and preaching disenfranchisement becomes "the" thing for angry white dudes? I don't get it.

 

[Jrodicus]

A national field director for the left-leaning Americans United for Change was fired on Monday after the release of an undercover video that showed him saying he hired mentally ill people to protest at Donald Trump events.

Yawn. Don't caaaaaaare. Trump's a rapist.

I think we just found one...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Rigging the Election - Video II: Mass Voter Fraud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs

Here's what gets me about this one.

Vogel claims they do this to affect red states in mid term elections. Do you think they just invented this? F_ no.

Trump promised his supporters they would win so much they woudl get tired of winning.

But NOW he is telling you GET READY TO LOSE! And it's not his fault.

The GOP WAS WINNING:

- 2/3s of Governorships.

- 3/4s of State legislatures.

- Owned the US Senate.

- Owned the US House.

- And he won his own national primary.

Here's the map if you don't believe me, red as far as the eye can see.

But TRUMP thinks it's rigged. Explain that for me.

 

[[icon]]

People who make the following assumptions are a significant part of the problem with this country:

• But... this stuff happens on both sides
• It will have no impact on the election, Trump was going to lose anyway

If you're saying that... might be time for some introspection. 

 

 

[The General]

Here's what gets me about this one.

Vogel claims they do this to affect red states in mid term elections. Do you think they just invented this? F_ no.

Trump promised his supporters would win so much they woudl get tired of losing.

But NOW he is telling you GET READY TO LOSE! And it's not his fault.

The GOP WAS WINNING:

- 2/3s of Governorships.

- 3/4s of State legislatures.

- Owned the US Senate.

- Owned the US House.

- And he won his own national primary.

Here's the map if you don't believe me, read as far as the eye can see.

But TRUMP thinks it's rigged. Explain that for me.

Well, you see those ones weren't rigged.

 

[3C's]

Video 1: they're egging Trump supporters into violence!

Which is worse? The egging or the violence?

 

[Quez]

I guess I'm not afraid to look at claims based on sources so I will talk about this.

First of all - ok about the source -

- The editing issue - O'Keefe IIRC did get caught improperly snipping to leave out context in the abortion 'investigation' IIRC. I don't remember how all that fell out eventually but I think that happened. And once you lose people you lose them, at least people you're trying to convince.

- Another O'Keefe issue - we had our own little run in in NO with him. O'Keefe actually - and this is incredibly stupid - broke into a telephone closet at the US District Court building in NO to essentially tap or screw with Senator Mary Landrieu's phones. This was ostensibly to prove some point about her lying about answering her phone about taking opposition calls on ACA. He got caught. Badly. But that's not the worst of it. Because after he was caught and embarrassed he then went on a vendetta against the US Attorney and even showed up at his doorstep, scaring him and his family and going on some rant. Surprising a US Attorney at his home, even if just to yell obscenities at him or shock interview him, is also incredibly stupid because it's a good way to get shot. Btw the US Attorney involevd was just about the most, best anti-corruption USA I ever heard or read about. Somehow O'Keefe thought he was the enemy.

About the content:

- Astroturfing protests goes on. Yep. We have known about this for years. I will say use of the word 'anarchy' is horrible. It's also totally legal.

- The voter fraud thing. Honestly I don't know where you live but that has been going on here and other urban centers for years, often against other Democrats. This is some 'shocker' video. The GOP and even some Democrats when it suits them have been countering this for years. With lawsuits and laws restricting when and how people can vote. It is a constant ongoing struggle.

- Even if (if) all of this were true (and you really have not explained what is claimed here) it would have zero impact on the final impact of the election. Trump is losing because he is an all time worst candidate. I mean terrible, he might lose AZ, TX, GA, UT, it's all on the table. This does not make a lick of difference because he is just a horrible candidate in every practical way.

- This idea that the election is rigged is really dangerous and wrong. It's awful. When did Republicans become white Al Sharptons? I'd really like to know this. This Jesse Jackson grievance, 'rigged against us'/Malcolm X mentality, when did it start? When did an orange-white messiah promising entitlements for whites and preaching disenfranchisement becomes "the" thing for angry white dudes? I don't get it.

How about paying mentally ill people to start violence.  Do we just chalk that one up to "these things go on"?

If all of this election fraud is so insignificant, then why are they doing it?

 

[Da Guru]

Regardless of who you are voting for this should be a major concern. The level of corruption is so deep rooted and it is treated like business as usual. Almost wish this election could be postponed and find two new candidates due to Trump not being capable and Clintons filthy corruption.

 

[Quez]

People who make the following assumptions are a significant part of the problem with this country:

• But... this stuff happens on both sides
• It will have no impact on the election, Trump was going to lose anyway

If you're saying that... might be time for some introspection. 

 

 It is amazing how many will put up with corruption & illegal activities if they support their team.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Video 1: they're egging Trump supporters into violence!

Which is worse? The egging or the violence?

Reading the news, there have been far more instances of violence against Trump supporters than Trump supporters inflicting violence.  

 

[3C's]

Reading the news, there have been far more instances of violence against Trump supporters than Trump supporters inflicting violence.  

Which if true sucks but doesn't address the question.

 

[bcat01]

Has this even made it on CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN or MSNBC?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

How about paying mentally ill people to start violence.  Do we just chalk that one up to "these things go on"?

If all of this election fraud is so insignificant, then why are they doing it?

Tell ya what, the abortion thing got run through the process. It was investigated in Indiana and TX at least that I recall. Do the same. Funny thing with all these voter fraud claims there are REPUBLICAN governors in OH, IN, MI, WI somehow, all these states they're talking about in the video so I'm pretty sure if they want to haul some folks in for questioning they can do that. Because of all the WINNING the GOP has been doing they're pretty well protected to investigate this in almost every state where it matters.

On the second point - I have been hearing about Democrats paying people or essentially bribing them with food or other goodies to go in and vote for decades. It's been going on since the 70s supposedly. Oftentimes they're voting against other Democrats. People do it for an edge. I also know that there are Republicans down here who have played their own shenanigans with voting machines. Sheriffs control the voting down here. I don't remember PV coming down here to blow the whistle on that. We have also had several often very conservative Republican governors. No one seems interested in cracking heads over this.

I also think we should use the same principles to judge things.

So we hear for years that the Bush 2000 election was stolen. True or false, was it?

So we hear that the 2004 election was stolen because Cleveland and a few other places had Democratic voters turned away. Stolen, or not?

2000 was stolen, 2004 was stolen, 2008 & 2012 were stolen (because you know the president isn't qualified to hold office), and now 2016 is stolen too?

It's like Al Sharpton climbed inside Donald Trump's skin and all of a sudden got a lot of white people to think, oh hey yeah, this all sounds pretty good actually.

But as a country now when we lose we're all, all of us, are going to claim fraud and stolen elections? It would be a real shame if we start believing that and if our neighbors start thinking that about us, because then we'd just look like another banana republic. Is that what we want?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Which if true sucks but doesn't address the question.

Fine.  It depends on both the level of incitement and the level of violence in response to that incitement.   

If I go to a synagogue during Yom Kippur services dressed as Hitler and singing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and I get a beatdown, I deserve that beatdown for trying to incite.  If the crowd kills me then we're talking about too great a violence level in response, but the violence against me still would never have occurred but for my intent and actions to incite so it's difficult to feel sorry for me.

If you don't want violence against you then don't intentionally try to incite people into violence.  Simple enough.

 

[3C's]

Fine.  It depends on both the level of incitement and the level of violence in response to that incitement.   

If I go to a synagogue during Yom Kippur services dressed as Hitler and singing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and I get a beatdown, I deserve that beatdown for trying to incite.  If the crowd kills me then we're talking about too great a violence level in response, but the violence against me still would never have occurred but for my intent and actions to incite so it's difficult to feel sorry for me.

If you don't want violence against you then don't intentionally try to incite people into violence.  Simple enough.

Wrong

 

[TobiasFunke]

 It is amazing how many will put up with corruption & illegal activities if they support their team.

You mean like how you're currently putting up with James O'Keefe, who was charged with a felony and pled out to a misdemeanor conviction related to a similar effort six years ago?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Has this even made it on CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN or MSNBC?

Yeah, it's been covered some.

But you know how sports broadcasts usually try to cut away from attention-seeking idiots who run onto the field during the game because they don't want to encourage other people to engage in that sort of pointless and often illegal activity?  Well ...

 

[Quez]

You mean like how you're currently putting up with James O'Keefe, who was charged with a felony and pled out to a misdemeanor conviction related to a similar effort six years ago?

Did you watch the videos?  I understand looking for every angle, and taking into account O'Keefes background, but that doesn't change what is on the tape.  I'm a pretty skeptical person, but I don't see any wiggle room on this one.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Did you watch the videos?  I understand looking for every angle, and taking into account O'Keefes background, but that doesn't change what is on the tape.  I'm a pretty skeptical person, but I don't see any wiggle room on this one.  

Well first of all if you can't see the irony in you chastising people for "putting up with corruption & illegal activities if they support their team" in a thread where you are clearly siding with James O'Keefe, I don't know what to tell you.

Anyway, on watching the videos- I did, but I also understand that there is no context provided and that this is a criminal with a long history of heavily editing video footage to make people believe what he wants them to believe.  It doesn't bother me that much anyway - just looks like a midlevel operative talking out of his ###, at the moment I'm a lot more concerned about the dangerous fascist bigoted moron who is impossibly close to the presidency. But in any event, I know as I watch it I'm watching something that was designed to make the viewer think a certain way instead of present them with the facts.  If a jury only hears the prosecution's case they'll come back with a guilty verdict every time.

So on that point let me ask you this- where's the unedited footage?  Has it been released?

 

[Quez]

Well first of all if you can't see the irony in you chastising people for "putting up with corruption & illegal activities if they support their team" in a thread where you are clearly siding with James O'Keefe, I don't know what to tell you.

Anyway, on watching the videos- I did, but I also understand that there is no context provided and that this is a criminal with a long history of heavily editing video footage to make people believe what he wants them to believe.  It doesn't bother me that much anyway - just looks like a midlevel operative talking out of his ###, at the moment I'm a lot more concerned about the dangerous fascist bigoted moron who is impossibly close to the presidency. But in any event, I know as I watch it I'm watching something that was designed to make the viewer think a certain way instead of present them with the facts.  If a jury only hears the prosecution's case they'll come back with a guilty verdict every time.

So on that point let me ask you this- where's the unedited footage?  Has it been released?

I agree that Foval is a mid-level operative, but Creamer is an important figure.  He visited the Whitehouse 200 times!

 

[Quez]

You mean like how you're currently putting up with James O'Keefe, who was charged with a felony and pled out to a misdemeanor conviction related to a similar effort six years ago?

The Robert Creamer dude in the video was actually CONVICTED of felonies & served time.  Yet,Obama still had 40 face to face meetings with him.  WTF?

 

[TobiasFunke]

The Robert Creamer dude in the video was actually CONVICTED of felonies & served time.  Yet,Obama still had 40 face to face meetings with him.  WTF?

Don't know, don't care. I'm not the one in this thread who is relying on information provided to me by a criminal .

Any response to my question about the unedited footage?  Where is it? 

 

[Boston]

You mean like how you're currently putting up with James O'Keefe, who was charged with a felony and pled out to a misdemeanor conviction related to a similar effort six years ago?

Out of curiosity do you believe everything Bill Clinton says?

 

[LittlePhatty]

Where's the unedited footage?  Has it been released?

Exactly. Give people everything and let them decide. O'Keefe's presentation just reeks of manipulation instead of true journalism. Even Fox News is leary: https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/788122106764599296

Look, I consider myself an independent and a skeptic too, I don't vote straight party. But presenting this as proof of a "rigged" election only works with a certain audience that already wants it to be true, and I suspect those people don't even understand how impossible it would be to coordinate actual voter fraud on a scale large enough to influence a presidential election where 230 million+ votes are being cast.

 

[Quez]

Don't know, don't care. I'm not the one in this thread who is relying on information provided to me by a criminal .

Any response to my question about the unedited footage?  Where is it? 

I don't know email O'Keeffe and maybe he will send it to you. I'm sure there are hours of video since this was a long undercover operation. You might have to torrent gigs of video.  Let us know if you get it, and comb through hours of tape.

What exactly are you concerned with being edited?  Foval was yapping like a chihuahua.   

 

[Northern Voice]

But presenting this as proof of a "rigged" election only works with a certain audience that already wants it to be true, and I suspect those people don't even understand how impossible it would be to coordinate actual voter fraud on a scale large enough to influence a presidential election where 230 million+ votes are being cast.

Yep. As soon as you use the word "rigged" you're associated with Trump and you've lost most rational thinkers. And of course that word is deliberately used to get views from Trump supporters who have shown themselves to love the stuff, so even if this was presented in an unbiased, unedited way it's going be treated as unreliable because Trump  and "rigged" have zero credibility. 

 

[Quez]

Exactly. Give people everything and let them decide. O'Keefe's presentation just reeks of manipulation instead of true journalism. Even Fox News is leary: https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/788122106764599296

Look, I consider myself an independent and a skeptic too, I don't vote straight party. But presenting this as proof of a "rigged" election only works with a certain audience that already wants it to be true, and I suspect those people don't even understand how impossible it would be to coordinate actual voter fraud on a scale large enough to influence a presidential election where 230 million+ votes are being cast.

If it was so unlikely & impossible then why do people do it?  I don't think it's as impossible as it seems.  If you think about it, most of the country you already know which way they will vote.  You really just have to screw around in a small percentage of districts.

 

[jonessed]

The stuff in the first video is pretty ####ed up.  They trained and paid people to go in and start the Chicago violence?  People were seriously hurt during that.

The people defending these tactics are completely in the bag.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know email O'Keeffe and maybe he will send it to you. I'm sure there are hours of video since this was a long undercover operation. You might have to torrent gigs of video.  Let us know if you get it, and comb through hours of tape.

What exactly are you concerned with being edited?  Foval was yapping like a chihuahua.   

Who knows what kind of tricks they pulled?  they certainly have a history of misleading edits. Here's just one claim with respect to their latest effort:

But Vargas, as of now the only target of these videos who has not lost a job, claims that PVAction left out exculpatory video of the interview. “They have a transcript of our conversation to confirm I told them that voting twice was illegal,” Vargas wrote on Facebook on Tuesday. “I will not respond to Fox News or the trolls but let them have their field day of conspiracies.”

link

 

[Boston]

If it was so unlikely & impossible then why do people do it?  I don't think it's as impossible as it seems.  If you think about it, most of the country you already know which way they will vote.  You really just have to screw around in a small percentage of districts.

JFK 1960...

 

[Boston]

The stuff in the first video is pretty ####ed up.  They trained and paid people to go in and start the Chicago violence?  People were seriously hurt during that.

The people defending these tactics are completely in the bag.  

I constantly say it but it is the Alinsky "means to an ends"...

 

[Courtjester]

Is this election over yet....ughhh 

 

[Coeur de Lion]

If it was so unlikely & impossible then why do people do it?  I don't think it's as impossible as it seems.  If you think about it, most of the country you already know which way they will vote.  You really just have to screw around in a small percentage of districts.

Not this year -- we're looking at a landslide in a few weeks. Why would anyone incur the risk of rigging anything this year? This election has been a done deal for months.

 

[mquinnjr]

The stuff in the first video is pretty ####ed up.  They trained and paid people to go in and start the Chicago violence?  People were seriously hurt during that.

It's the Republican's fault for putting up such a bad candidate, because this is truly despicable behavior - if it was executed upon as discussed in the video. We don't know that with 100% certainty, as that would require an investigation to prove out. Just like sexual abuse allegations against Trump by accusers as a result of the hot mic comments, neither he nor rally attackers in Chicago are guilty until proven so.

This whole election cycle has been a complete , just disappointing all around. 

 

[Black Box]

- This idea that the election is rigged is really dangerous and wrong. It's awful. When did Republicans become white Al Sharptons? I'd really like to know this. This Jesse Jackson grievance, 'rigged against us'/Malcolm X mentality, when did it start? When did an orange-white messiah promising entitlements for whites and preaching disenfranchisement becomes "the" thing for angry white dudes? I don't get it.

I think it is because whites have just now entered the age of identity politics on a national level.

 

[mr roboto]

Don't know, don't care. I'm not the one in this thread who is relying on information provided to me by a criminal .

Any response to my question about the unedited footage?  Where is it? 

Are you ever embarrassed with how shockingly partisan you are?

 

[Boston]

Are you ever embarrassed with how shockingly partisan you are?

Ideological bigotry...the hatred of anyone who doesn't agree with your politics...turning into an epidemic...

 

[timschochet]

The guy resigning is troublesome. The fact that he met with Obama so many times (if true) is troublesome. The fact that this O'Keefe character is so compromised, and has a history of editing films to create false contexts, is troublesome. The video is troublesome. 

So what to believe? I have no idea. The one conclusion that I can't reach is "everything about this video is true, therefore Trump!" I can't fathom anybody reaching that conclusion, therefore in the larger scheme of things this whole discussion seems irrelevant. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Are you ever embarrassed with how shockingly partisan you are?

If you think there's something misleading or incorrect in one of my posts, feel free to point it out and I will be happy to respond.

And no, I'm not embarrassed by any of my political beliefs.  Are you embarrassed by your apparent tendency to interject yourself mid-conversation between two posters to launch ad hominem attacks?