Proper Punishment for the Patriots Poll (1 Viewer)

[PatsFan72]

...If someone cheats and wins it HAS to be assumed that the cheating was responsible for the win.

Do you consider steroid use cheating? Should all games with any player that tested positive for steroids be considered losses? The beginning of the 2006 season for the Chargers?Assuming cheating is always responsible for the win is the same as 0 tolerance policies. It takes the thinking out of things, which I guess is good for some people, but many of us like it in there.

...Goodell sent a memo to all of the teams right before the season that this monkey business would not be tolerated. So the Pats ignore the warning and do it anyway, in week 1...

I agree 100%, and would even say that the punishment should be banning my beloved Patriots from the 2008 draft.

...I hope it's soon so the million Patriot threads will go away.

And be replaced by the million Randy Moss is a god, Tom Brady is a god, I guess BB didn't need the video after all. Is 4 Super Bowl victories in 7 years the greatest dynasty in NFL history?

 

[OddibeMcD]

Mouth kiss Mike Golic

 

[kupcho1]

Linda Tripp

Did you just come through a wormhole from 1999?

 

[BoulderBob]

The "Tom Brady as God" article in SI was right on! He knows what the defense is doing before they do! A first day pick, preferably round 1 should stop not only the Patriots from cheating, but the rest of the league as well. Well, untill the next slick willy comes along...

 

[FF Maestro]

Fine them or take a 2nd -5th round pick and move on. This is the most overblown topic we may come across this season.

There will be no forfeit, no suspension of BB, and no loss of a 1st round pick.2nd and 5th, 250k fine seems most likely.

Agreed. My understanding is the tape was confiscated during the first quarter of the game. Considering Mangini was the one who ratted Belichick out, you have to assume the Jets changed their signals at half time if not sooner. Why should they forfeit the game when it seems highly unlikely the video taping had any impact on the outcome of the game?There should be a fine. I wouldn't be surprised if a 4th or 5th round pick were taken away. Belichick is not someone who doesn't think things through. He had to have had some concept of the risks involved in putting a Patriots employee with a video camera on the sideline of a former assistant. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they do just get a slap on the wrist because this is being blown way out of proportion.

Weather or not the Pats could have beaten the Jets "straight up" to me, is irrelevant. The issue here is cheating. If a teacher caught you cheating on a test in school, would they give you credit for the answers you made after the fact? Certainly not. Look, cheating is cheating, the fact that the Pats could have beaten the Jets without cheating makes it even worse.

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.They clearly did break the rules. To what extent we don't really know yet. I've always admired Belichick for thinking outside of the box, but this is taking things too far. It was a scum-bag move unless I hear otherwise. The players have to be completely pissed off.All of the ridiculous comments about Belichick's dress and lack of professionalism are laughable. I actually like him for the fact he's not affraid to give his honest opinions and tell it like it is. If he's short with certain people, it's because he's looking out for his team which is what he's supposed to do. Who said he had to be nice about it? He's much more laid back when he's on WEEI. Don't always believe what you see in the news - good or bad.

 

[strong]

Fine them or take a 2nd -5th round pick and move on. This is the most overblown topic we may come across this season.

It's interesting that the majority of NFL fans are calling for players' heads for crimes they commit off the field, whether they are proven guilty in a court of law or not. In contrast, fans seemed split on this Patriots issue with many expressing a blasé attitude towards an organization that attempted to truly threaten the integrity of the game by cheating during it...The reality here is that the same fan is expressing hope that Pacman Jones to never play again in the NFL in one breath while shrugging their shoulders and saying in another breath about the Patriots: "It doesn't matter, all teams probably do that so just flick 'em on the wrist and move on."

 

[parrot]

It's interesting that the majority of NFL fans are calling for players' heads for crimes they commit off the field, whether they are proven guilty in a court of law or not. In contrast, fans seemed split on this Patriots issue with many expressing a blasé attitude towards an organization that attempted to truly threaten the integrity of the game by cheating during it...

Do you feel that all attempted signal stealing should be outlawed?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.

Holding <> CheatingThese threads seem to be petri dishes for horrid analogies.

 

[((Morpheus))]

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.

Holding <> CheatingThese threads seem to be petri dishes for horrid analogies.

A lot of you guys should quit analogies.

 

[FF Maestro]

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.

Holding <> CheatingThese threads seem to be petri dishes for horrid analogies.

In the context of my reply, I don't see the problem with it. I was responding to a point that "cheating is cheating" and the amount it impacts the game is irrelevant. Do you disagree with that? I would argue these threads attract more egotistic know-it-alls than anything Yes, that last point is directed at you incase you miss this one too.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.

Holding <> CheatingThese threads seem to be petri dishes for horrid analogies.

In the context of my reply, I don't see the problem with it. I was responding to a point that "cheating is cheating" and the amount it impacts the game is irrelevant. Do you disagree with that? I would argue these threads attract more egotistic know-it-alls than anything Yes, that last point is directed at you incase you miss this one too.

Thanks. I might have missed that one.

 

[parrot]

I would love to see a definition of cheating remotely applicable to the game of football that wouldn't cover holding.

 

[Darth Cheney]

1st round pick in 20081st round pick in 2009A ban on all media from using the term "class organization" when refering to the franchise.A ban on all media from using the term "football guru" when referring to BB.If the Commish doesn't bring the hammer down, it will further sully the dwindling reputation of the NFL.

Again,

I guess you are a Pats fan.If it's been found out that they were guilty of cheating...they should be punished for it....not slapped on the wrist. Make it hurt so no other team thinks about doing it again. Was it too much when the Black Sox received their lifetime ban? Was Bart Giamatti giving Pete Rose a lifetime ban too excessive? Pre Bud Selig, baseball worked because it dealt with defamers of the game severely. If the NFL doesn't do this, it moves further down the road to being the same caliber of "sport" as the WWE.

Maybe its just me, but your "ban on all media" seems a bit over the top. Why would a penalty apply to CBS, ABC, etc.?

Sorry that was a bit of a goof and should have been labeled as such......although I imagine most football fans who didn't like the Pat's but did consider the "Patriot Way" to be a prime model of on field play, coaching and front office smarts are questioning the class of the organization.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I would love to see a definition of cheating remotely applicable to the game of football that wouldn't cover holding.

Holding is a penalty that is often done purely by accident. Furthermore, holding is acknowledged to be part of the game, and it has a clearly defined in-game sanction attached to it. It's understood that in some cases, it's a "smart play" to deliberately hold a player and take the 10 yard penalty if that prevents your QB from getting decapitated by an unblocked rusher. Likewise, PI can sometimes be a "smart play" even though it's a penalty, as long as you're willing to accept the punishment spelled out in the rules.Nobody is arguing that the Patriots should be allowed to tape defensive signals as long as they're willing to pay whatever fine Goodell imposes, and nobody is claiming that this was done by accident. That's the difference.HTH.

 

[kbleck]

They should lose first day draft pick and they should forfeit the Jets game since that was the game they were caught cheating.

 

[Workhorse]

Posted on the other thread, I think this year's 1st round pick, next year's 3rd round pick, $250,000 fine, one game suspension for Belichick.

 

[parrot]

I would love to see a definition of cheating remotely applicable to the game of football that wouldn't cover holding.

Holding is a penalty that is often done purely by accident. Furthermore, holding is acknowledged to be part of the game, and it has a clearly defined in-game sanction attached to it. It's understood that in some cases, it's a "smart play" to deliberately hold a player and take the 10 yard penalty if that prevents your QB from getting decapitated by an unblocked rusher. Likewise, PI can sometimes be a "smart play" even though it's a penalty, as long as you're willing to accept the punishment spelled out in the rules.Nobody is arguing that the Patriots should be allowed to tape defensive signals as long as they're willing to pay whatever fine Goodell imposes, and nobody is claiming that this was done by accident. That's the difference.HTH.

The "accidental" idea is pretty weak, but I'll spot you it. Holding - WHEN INTENTIONAL - is doing something outside the rules to try and gain an advantage over an oponent. That's cheating. Is it a calculated risk that pays off sometimes? Sure. Doesn't make it any less cheating.Also holding was thrown out to demonstrate that there are levels of "cheating". I didn't see anyone claim that holding was even remotely the same as what the Patriots did so I don't know what your point is at the end there.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I would love to see a definition of cheating remotely applicable to the game of football that wouldn't cover holding.

Holding is a penalty that is often done purely by accident. Furthermore, holding is acknowledged to be part of the game, and it has a clearly defined in-game sanction attached to it. It's understood that in some cases, it's a "smart play" to deliberately hold a player and take the 10 yard penalty if that prevents your QB from getting decapitated by an unblocked rusher. Likewise, PI can sometimes be a "smart play" even though it's a penalty, as long as you're willing to accept the punishment spelled out in the rules.Nobody is arguing that the Patriots should be allowed to tape defensive signals as long as they're willing to pay whatever fine Goodell imposes, and nobody is claiming that this was done by accident. That's the difference.HTH.

The "accidental" idea is pretty weak, but I'll spot you it. Holding - WHEN INTENTIONAL - is doing something outside the rules to try and gain an advantage over an oponent. That's cheating.

No it isn't. It's rules don't make any discrimination between intentional holding and accidental holding. A lineman can deliberately hold the opposing defensive lineman all day long provided his team is willing to accept a never-ending stream of 10 yard penalties. Contrast that with what NE is accused of doing. If NE gets caught taping signals again, the next penalty will probably be harsher than whatever Goodell hands down this time. And if they keep doing it, they'll get hit even harder again. When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

 

[bryhamm]

All those saying forfeit, you DO realize it is likely well beyond the commish's power to order that, right?

Link

According to league rules and bylaws, the commissioner possesses the authority to investigate and take disciplinary action if the NFL determines a team has engaged in unfair acts. Goodell's powers include the "imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game's result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred."

 

[Workhorse]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable".

No it isn't. If it was really unacceptable, then the commish would hand down fines when players commit holding, and those fines would get steeper and steeper for repeat offenders in an effort to remove this behavior from the field. Cheap shots are unacceptable. There's a 15 penalty for unnecessary roughness, but there's also often a fine involved as well. The reason why this is treated differently than holding is because holding is just part of the game, while spearing isn't. Likewise, steroid use is unacceptable. A player isn't allowed to say choose between playing 16 games clean and playing 12 games while juiced up. If it's determined that a player is continuing to use steroids after he's been caught once, the penalty gets more and more severe so that this activity is driven out of the league completely. I think you probably see the difference here, and you're just arguing now to save some face.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The nature of the cheating actually is important when you're trying to determine an appropriate punishment. Being a teacher myself, I understand your point. This is a very different arena. Does your team forfeit the game because your LT held on that last play? No, they get backed-up 10 yards.

Holding <> CheatingThese threads seem to be petri dishes for horrid analogies.

In the context of my reply, I don't see the problem with it. I was responding to a point that "cheating is cheating" and the amount it impacts the game is irrelevant. Do you disagree with that? I would argue these threads attract more egotistic know-it-alls than anything Yes, that last point is directed at you incase you miss this one too.

For what it's worth, I can agree with the point you were trying to make. It's just that the analogy to holding was pretty bad. I would not argue that Belichicks actions were the same thing as, say, bribing an official or hiring a hit-man to whack an opposing RB in the knee the night before a big game.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable".

No it isn't. If it was really unacceptable, then the commish would hand down fines when players commit holding, and those fines would get steeper and steeper for repeat offenders in an effort to remove this behavior from the field. Cheap shots are unacceptable. There's a 15 penalty for unnecessary roughness, but there's also often a fine involved as well. The reason why this is treated differently than holding is because holding is just part of the game, while spearing isn't. Likewise, steroid use is unacceptable. A player isn't allowed to say choose between playing 16 games clean and playing 12 games while juiced up. If it's determined that a player is continuing to use steroids after he's been caught once, the penalty gets more and more severe so that this activity is driven out of the league completely. I think you probably see the difference here, and you're just arguing now to save some face.

I have seen the difference all along. I'm pretty sure that you also understand that holding is outside the rules of the game and that is a pretty common definition of cheating to most people, so it's you doing the rationalizing and face-saving here.

 

[jonessed]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

Um.. yeah... I'm talking about holding.

 

[Sleeper 43]

Forfeit the Jets game.

 

[jonessed]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

Um.. yeah... I'm talking about holding.

Holding is a penalty, it's not cheating.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ban from post season play.

Correct.1) Announcing the loss of the draft pick now (day one selection).2) After week 17 concludes, announcing they are ineligble for the post season.

 

[jonessed]

Ban from post season play.

Correct.1) Announcing the loss of the draft pick now (day one selection).

2) After week 17 concludes, announcing they are ineligble for the post season.

Won't happen. They don't want this to linger and I can't imagine they want to punish all of the players. I doubt many of them knew exactly what was happening.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

Um.. yeah... I'm talking about holding.

Holding is a penalty, it's not cheating.

Okay, you guys win. Breaking the clearly defined rules of play in a game is not in any way, shape, or form "cheating".

 

[Sheriff66]

2nd and 3rd rounder next year

8-16 game suspension for BB, barred from Patriots facilities(including practices & games)

$250,000 fine

 

[Browns Rule!]

There is a 0 percent chance that they will have to forfeit the Jets game, no possible way. That would lead to problems galore, including:

1) - The fans would all want their money back.

2) - Las Vegas would be a mess with people who lost money on the game wanting their money back.

As a Browns fan, I can't stand Bellidick. The problem I have with the entire situation is I believe there were only a few select people that knew about this. I don't think its right to punish the players, and especially the fans for something doo-doo head decided to mastermind. I'll be happy with any penalty the league lays down, because the worst they give, the worse it makes Billy Boy look, however, I don't think that would be fair to those not involved which would be most people.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ban from post season play.

Correct.1) Announcing the loss of the draft pick now (day one selection).

2) After week 17 concludes, announcing they are ineligble for the post season.

Won't happen. They don't want this to linger and I can't imagine they want to punish all of the players. I doubt many of them knew exactly what was happening.

Maybe not. But the question is "what is proper".Lingering isnt nearly the worry to Goodell as is it repeating or the integrity (real and assumed) of the league.

Understand Goodell has been very righteous.

Getting it right is going to supercede everything else. And it will also have the biggest positive long term effect on the league.

 

[Franknbeans]

Ban from post season play.

Correct.1) Announcing the loss of the draft pick now (day one selection).

2) After week 17 concludes, announcing they are ineligble for the post season.

Won't happen. They don't want this to linger and I can't imagine they want to punish all of the players. I doubt many of them knew exactly what was happening.

Maybe not. But the question is "what is proper".Lingering isnt nearly the worry to Goodell as is it repeating or the integrity (real and assumed) of the league.

Understand Goodell has been very righteous.

Getting it right is going to supercede everything else. And it will also have the biggest positive long term effect on the league.

I think that's the point a lot of people are missing. He has to do something forceful to discourage teams from cheating. Otherwise, the integrity of the league is further compromised.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

$250,000.00 fine. End of story.

I think that's pretty excessive compared to other fines I'm aware of that the league has given out before, and even compared to what other leagues have given out. I think anything in the range of a 2nd and 4th, two 3rds, a 1st by itself or maybe a 1st and 5th would be appropriate in addition to a 1-4 game suspension for BB and a $50k-$100k fine for the team. I think you need a suspension because it fits the crime for the person who actually caused it to happen. I also think the fine to hit the owner's pocket so the owners tell their coaches not to do this stuff is necessary, and I think the team as a whole needs to lose one or more draft picks so they don't walk away from it having had no on-the-field detriment for what they did.

same punishment that MInnestota Timberwolves had !

08 1st rounder 09 first rounder

That's CloserActually the Timberwolves had to give up FIVE first round picks and $3.5 Million which was the maximum fine allowed by league rules at the time.

Edit to Add: The league was working out suspensions when an agreement was reached that for 11 months Owner Glen Taylor and VP of BB Operations Kevin McHale would take Leaves of absense (in which neither could attend games or practices or be involved in business operations in any way), and team Lawyer Jack Regan was barred from representing the team. In return for this agreement, the NBA gave back one of the 5 first round picks.

 

[jonessed]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

Um.. yeah... I'm talking about holding.

Holding is a penalty, it's not cheating.

Okay, you guys win. Breaking the clearly defined rules of play in a game is not in any way, shape, or form "cheating".

I guess you are just slow.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

BB should be forced to spend a week in Oklahoma wearing a Texas t-shirt.

 

[Marc Levin]

Linda Tripp

Did you just come through a wormhole from 1999?

Why? You think she's gotten BETTER looking over the last 8 years?Couldn't think of any other really fat and disgusting women at that moment - sub John Travolta from the new Hairspray or Rosie if you prefer.

 

[Marc Levin]

I actually like him for the fact he's not affraid to give his honest opinions and tell it like it is.

LMAO at BB being honest and telling it like it is. Everythikng he does - including his dealings with the press - is cold and calculated.

 

[jonessed]

I actually like him for the fact he's not affraid to give his honest opinions and tell it like it is.

LMAO at BB being honest and telling it like it is. Everythikng he does - including his dealings with the press - is cold and calculated.

I checked out the Patriots forums yesterday just for some perspective. The crap they are coming up with is flat out bizarre. Many were seriously concluding that BB is too smart to ever get caught so he must have decided to be a stand up guy and show the league what was going on knowing he would get caught. It's amazing what group-think can do.

 

[Marc Levin]

All those saying forfeit, you DO realize it is likely well beyond the commish's power to order that, right?

Link

According to league rules and bylaws, the commissioner possesses the authority to investigate and take disciplinary action if the NFL determines a team has engaged in unfair acts. Goodell's powers include the "imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game's result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred."

Good find if this article can be trusted. The question is whether this incident is is an "unfair act" that falls under this rule or whether this quotation is a refelection of the commish's general powers.I have tried to find the league's bylaws so I could find this rule at issue, and couldnt find anything useful - tons ab out on-field rules, almost nothing on off-field rules.

 

[Liquid Tension]

1st round pick in 20081st round pick in 2009A ban on all media from using the term "class organization" when refering to the franchise.A ban on all media from using the term "football guru" when referring to BB.If the Commish doesn't bring the hammer down, it will further sully the dwindling reputation of the NFL.

LOL...I think they should lose all day one draft picks two years in a row. Cheating is cheating and they can have no tolerance. Every time NE had the perfect play call you should now wonder whether it was good playcalling or knowing what the other team was doing? Sometims the 2nd and 3rd round picks are actually better values (with the cap).

 

[FF Maestro]

I actually like him for the fact he's not affraid to give his honest opinions and tell it like it is.

LMAO at BB being honest and telling it like it is. Everythikng he does - including his dealings with the press - is cold and calculated.

I never said he was honest. There is a big difference between giving an "honest OPINION" and being an honest person. They are two different things. I'm not playing semantics with this. All I meant was I liked the fact that he says what he feels without caring much what other people think. When I say he tells it like it is I meant the same thing. He doesn't care about offending people. I guess I get tired of people trying to be people pleasers and PC all the time.Again, I certainly don't approve of the video taping. Up until this point, I've always gotten a kick out of the fact at how many people this guy rubs the wrong way. There are leaders I admire and respect who are second to none at what they do, yet many people find them arrogant, self-centered, un-caring, etc...If you get to know them things couldn't be further from the truth. To me, Belichick kind of falls into this category. I am NOT suggesting that I "know" him. Could he really be as cold-hearted as he's being portrayed? Sure he could. I just don't buy it and that's my opinion.

 

[Marc Levin]

I actually like him for the fact he's not affraid to give his honest opinions and tell it like it is.

LMAO at BB being honest and telling it like it is. Everythikng he does - including his dealings with the press - is cold and calculated.

I never said he was honest. There is a big difference between giving an "honest OPINION" and being an honest person. They are two different things. I'm not playing semantics with this. All I meant was I liked the fact that he says what he feels without caring much what other people think.

More understandable. You are right there. He spits out the stock answers to anything he doesn't want to talk about, and the only thing he wants to talk about is football history or strategy. He will bend the press's ear (as long as it is not strategy regarding the upcoming game - on that he seems to lose his voice).If he can't give an honest answer, he gives no answer.

 

[parrot]

When we talk about "cheating," we're talking about things that are considered unacceptable regardless of the formal punishment imposed. Holding doesn't meet that definition. Taping signals does.

This is quite the spin. Holding is considered "unacceptable". That is why there's a rule against it, and yards are marched off when you get caught.

C'mon now. Arguing that an on-field penalty is even remotely in the same league as this type of cheating/espionage is just downright silly.

Agreed. It's a good thing I haven't remotely argued that. The original point was that there are degrees of cheating, of which holding would be one, though a pretty inconsequential one.

An organization conspired to cheat here and they built a system of information distribution around the cheating. The rules are clear. There is no way anyone sensible can make the excuse that they didn't know what they are doing. That's a big deal any way you slice it.

Um.. yeah... I'm talking about holding.

Holding is a penalty, it's not cheating.

Okay, you guys win. Breaking the clearly defined rules of play in a game is not in any way, shape, or form "cheating".

I guess you are just slow.

Hey, pretty excellent of you there. Way to get personal. In what way am I slow? You said holding isn't cheating even though it's clearly against the rules. Therefore I can only conclude that your position is that breaking the clearly defined rules of play in a game is not in any way, shape, or form "cheating". If there's something I'm missing there, feel free to point it out.

 

[HF21]

Belichick has to go for a ride with Senator Kennedy.

 

[RudeDog]

I like the idea of banning them from the post-season. This is similar to college when teams are prohibited from bowl games. They have to play the games, but they can't get into the playoffs.

This should be done for the next 2 years.

Sorry, Randy, no super bowl ring for you !!!

 

[Mungo Burrows]

I like the idea of banning them from the post-season. This is similar to college when teams are prohibited from bowl games. They have to play the games, but they can't get into the playoffs.This should be done for the next 2 years.Sorry, Randy, no super bowl ring for you !!!

Only if they take away their draft choices the following years, or are forced to take the last pick in each round. Otherwise they have incentive to tank those seasons for better draft position.On the other hand, the last thing the league needs is a team going something like 14-2 and not being allowed into the playoffs. It would diminish the accomplishment of the team that did win, because "they didn't have to play the pats"