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Pros and Cons of adding a point per reception to our league (1 Viewer)

skip_hollowell

Footballguy
I am vehemently opposed to it, but it was voted and passed for our league this year.

My main argument is that while it adds more players to the pool for our 16 team league, it lowers the importance of the other positions disproportionately. QB is now a second class citizen, on par with. or slightly above, Defenses. It also pushed combination players like Westbrook unfairly above stud rushers, just because they catch half a dozen swing passes per game.

This is what I get for playing in a neighborhood league with folks who drafted Priest Holmes in the first round last year, and will probably pick Vick this year.

 
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We added 0.5 PPR for WRs and TEs. I like it because it brings the value of WRs close to that of a RB. As far as QBs go, we award 6 pts for a TD pass (though -3 for INT) so their value is already high enough.

 
My personal opinion is it's pure stat-padding. Our commish got sick of losing one year and decided to propose the change. It didn't go through, but he still pushes for it. I get real sick of people trying to make changes to make up for their own lack of success.

To each his own though. I would leave that league ASAP with those other things you mentioned though.

 
We did the same as Godsbrother and it really upped the competitiveness. It's a 16 team dynasty league, so the PPR provides a chance for teams to be competitive using good WRs and TEs. No team has won the championship starting 1RB/4WR yet, although a few have made it to the 2nd round of playoffs.

 
In a redraft league were draft slots are randomly assigned, a better plan IMO is to reverse the pick order of the 3rd round. It lessens the advantage the the high picks get over everyone else especially those drafting in slots 10 or greater. If you are playing with knowlegable owners this helps with competitive balance in the league.

 
I like leagues that are more about performance and less about TDs. I play in a league that gives 4 pts for all TDs, 1ppr for RBs & WRs and 1.5 ppr for TEs. We also start 2 QBs. Makes the draft much more interesting.

 
The following is from a post from last year from this thread

The following was an analysis that I did for my league at the start of this year because I (commish) wanted to move more in the PPR direction. Like many have said, it is based on preference. Not all positions need to be equal but it helps all positions in the draft in case you want that WR in RD 2 or too many RBs are taken by the time it comes back to you in RD 3. Do you want to settle for a lower calibur RB or take the WR who may put up similar numbers to a 2nd tier RB.

Anyway, heres the study I did

Ok guys, I have been crunching numbers for the past 3 hours and here is what I came up with:

I took the top 25 Running backs, the top 25 Wide Receivers and the top 15 Tight Ends and calculated their total points that they would have had last year. These rankings were based on the players production last year, not rankings in a book or even more importantly my own depth charts. I evaluated what these players would have done with no ppr, and then I added .5 and 1 ppr for Running backs, 1 ppr for Wide Receivers and 1 and 1.5 ppr for Tight Ends. There was no adding in performance points (ie- 100 yard games, 40+ yard TDS, etc).

Here is what I found:

In a no ppr league there were 4 Rbs over 300+ points, 5 over 200+ points and 12 over 150+ points. That makes a total of 21/25 RBs over 150+ points with no ppr. Then I added .5 ppr for RBs and this was the result: 4 Rbs over 300+ points, 8 over 200+ points and 10 over 150+ points. Not a big difference pushing 22/25 backs over the 150+ point total. Now I added the 1 ppr equation and this was the result: 5 Rbs over 300+ points, 9 over 200+ points and 11 over 150+ points making all 25/25 backs 150+ points and over with 1 ppr.

Onto Wide Receivers: (which did not include any rushing stats but most receivers don’t have huge rushing numbers that would affect this experiment.)

In an no ppr league there were 0 Wrs over 300+ points, 3 over 200+ points and 9 over 150+ points making it 12/25 WRs that were over 150+ points with no ppr. That is less then half for those of you who have not worked with Math lately. Then I added the 1 ppr that WRs would get in our new rules and here was the conclusion: 2 WRs were over the 300+ point mark (with 2 more in the 290s), 16 WRs over 200+ points and 5 WRs over 150+ points giving us 23/25 Receivers who would have been 150+ point producers last year given the 1 ppr.

Now if you look at the numbers with the ppr added in the way we would have it this year it gives us 22/25 backs that are 150+ point producers and 23/25 WRs who are 150+ point producers. This seems a lot more equitable then with out ppr where you get this: 21/25 backs were 150+ point producers and only 12/25 WRs were 150+ point producers.

Last but not least, the Tight Ends, who benefit the most with a 1.5 ppr if the motion passes. I calculated Tight Ends with no ppr, 1 ppr and 1.5 ppr. Here was the result: With no ppr there were no TEs with 300+ or 200+ points and there was only 1 who was over 150+ points (guess who that was). Then I added 1 ppr and here is what happened: There were still 0 over the 300+ point barrier but there were 2 TEs over the 200+ point mark and 5 who were over 150+ points making it 7/15 over 150+ points. Then I added the 1.5 ppr that we would instill this year and here were the results. 1 TE over 300+ points, 6 over 200+ points and 4 TEs over 150+ points making it 11/15 TEs over 150+ points.

Again the reason for adding different points for different positions is to balance out the positions. This new system will not solve all of the problems in a fantasy league but it does give a team more options when drafting, trading and managing because there is more equality in each position.

I know that I have way too much time on my hands but thank you for reading this as it is important each owner understands the rules of the league and why I would want to change the rules a certain way.

The league voted overwhelmingly to give PPR a try. It has been working well so far
 
I like 1 PPR for WR/TE only. The year we made that change, we went to 6 pt passing TDs to level the playing field for QBs. I don't understand the argument about it being stat-padding. If that's the case, go back to TD-only leagues like we used to have in the good old days.

 
Consider Points per first down reception as a happy medium.

Points Per Deception Article

PPR boosts WRs and TEs and makes them more valuable. Also makes the player pool feel deeper.
I endorse the Pasquino PPFDR system.All the arguments in favor of PPR are very sensible and convincing. Really, they are. But, in my mind, they all fly out the window when I see my opponents' player get a point for a negative-one-yard reception. It enrages me. It's Just Plain Wrong. (And yes, I do realize that my players get those cheap points too. I get no pleasure from it.) (Also, yes, I realize that, in a sense, it's Just Plain Wrong for a guy to get 6 points for a one-yard TD while the guy who got the 59-yard run that preceded it gets less, but that's not quite the same thing. While the 6 points might be out of proportion with the skill required to get them, they do at least come because of a significant event on the football field. The same is not true of a zero-yard reception.)

PPFDR solves that problem while accomplishing all the same goals that PPR is supposed to accomplish. I'm not sure how feasible it is, but it's a good idea.

So, to answer the original question...

Pros of PPR: all the very good logical arguments others have made.

Cons of PPR: it's Just Plain Wrong.

 
I'd be all for PPFD; what online leagues support it? I dont think its on fanball

We do 1pt/2rec, it works out well. We started with 1pt/rec, but the scoring was out of control. 1/2 is much better.

Of course if your goal is to de-emphasize importance of RBs, it's better accomplished via starting rosters. We do 1 rb 2 wr 1 flex, and it makes middle of the pack RBs about as valuable as they should be.

 
Start more WRs and fewer RBs.

Don't make a 10 yard reception worth 20 yards rushing. Reward actual production, not a non-productive stat.

Listen to Drinen. :popcorn:

 
I am vehemently opposed to it, but it was voted and passed for our league this year.My main argument is that while it adds more players to the pool for our 16 team league, it lowers the importance of the other positions disproportionately. QB is now a second class citizen, on par with. or slightly above, Defenses. It also pushed combination players like Westbrook unfairly above stud rushers, just because they catch half a dozen swing passes per game.This is what I get for playing in a neighborhood league with folks who drafted Priest Holmes in the first round last year, and will probably pick Vick this year.
I like it as it makes the values of Wrs a bit closer to Rbs and it also gives you added dimension to think about in terms of RB production as some are better at catching and more involved in the pass game than others.
 
Start more WRs and fewer RBs.Don't make a 10 yard reception worth 20 yards rushing. Reward actual production, not a non-productive stat.Listen to Drinen. :unsure:
I disagree. Anything beyond a TD-only league is rewarding stats and not "actual production." PPR or .5PPR for WR/TE adds relative value to those positions.
 
Not to rehash this, but nobody answered the question about what services will offer PPFDR. Heck, even PPFD. Does anybody offer this capability? I see the article that talks about it, and people pimping it, and I think I could get it implemented for my league (we have some people who venomously oppose PPR for most of the reasons listed here), but it does no good if you can't actually incorporate it into scoring. :no:

 
My personal opinion is it's pure stat-padding. Our commish got sick of losing one year and decided to propose the change. It didn't go through, but he still pushes for it. I get real sick of people trying to make changes to make up for their own lack of success.
how does it do that? doesn't everyone know about the rule?
 
i like PPR. just about every league i play in now has it. i like what it does to the value of elite WRs and TEs.

 
My personal opinion is it's pure stat-padding. Our commish got sick of losing one year and decided to propose the change. It didn't go through, but he still pushes for it. I get real sick of people trying to make changes to make up for their own lack of success.

To each his own though. I would leave that league ASAP with those other things you mentioned though.
You're right, to each their own. Somehow, some way, there are major league high stakes leagues that use it. Do you know why? It helps balance mid and lower level RBs and WRs to allow for more potential players that can make a little bit of a difference for your team. But, it sounds like you have it all figured out.Anyway, I'll be anteing up $1,800+ to find out if all of the other fools that believe in ppr leagues can be beat once again for the sixth year in a row.

 
i dont like it most of the time . if you can start 3 or 4 rb though, i do like .25 per reception then . adding 1 full point brings the value of average wr up way to much imo . i read the idea above of 1 point for te only . that seems like a nice idea...

 
I just requested MFL to add this feature.

I suggest you do it as well as it will lend credence for a demand for it.

By the way, I'll be revamping PPFDR once again this year to update the data and article.

 
i like it, but i'm just used to it.

one thing that helps me get over the BS no-gainer reception that equals a 10-yard run thing, is that i think of it as a reward for being a more complete running back.

sure, a no-gainer pass isn't really worth a point, but it's a reward for a player having the pass-blocking/route-running/pass-catching skills that allowed him to be on the field to catch the pass.

think of it as making up for not getting rewarded for laying out a blitzing linebacker.

that's probably a stretch, but what the hell.

really, i don't care. just give me the rules i'll try to beat the competition based on them.

 
We added 0.5 PPR for WRs and TEs. I like it because it brings the value of WRs close to that of a RB. As far as QBs go, we award 6 pts for a TD pass (though -3 for INT) so their value is already high enough.
I've played in 6pts passing TDs/ 0 points off for INT leagues and QBs still weren't valued highly enough? How on earth does your scoring make QBs valuable enough? Are there not still 75+% RBs drafted in your first round when in real life RB is not nearly as important of a position as QB?
 
PPR makes TE a relevant position, period.

In deeper leagues, it also makes very thin waiver wires much more interesting in mid and late seasons, where pickups like Aaron Stecker and Kevin Faulk can mean all the difference between getting into the playoffs, and not.

 
Pros of PPR: all the very good logical arguments others have made.Cons of PPR: it's Just Plain Wrong.
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
 
I am vehemently opposed to it, but it was voted and passed for our league this year.My main argument is that while it adds more players to the pool for our 16 team league, it lowers the importance of the other positions disproportionately. QB is now a second class citizen, on par with. or slightly above, Defenses. It also pushed combination players like Westbrook unfairly above stud rushers, just because they catch half a dozen swing passes per game.This is what I get for playing in a neighborhood league with folks who drafted Priest Holmes in the first round last year, and will probably pick Vick this year.
After playing fantasy football for a number of years I finally figured out the perfect scoring system. This scoring system awards players for their performance on the field perfectly in comparison to their offensive counterparts. PPR is a must. It creates a symbiance between RBs and WRs.1 point for 20 yards passing1 point for 10 yards rushing/receiving1 point for receptions6 points for all TDsThis balance of scoring rewards the correct players with the correct points across the board. This scoring system reflects that and balances everything out nicely. As far as I am concerned, this scoring system should be the standard in fantasy football, PERIOD.
 
Pros of PPR: all the very good logical arguments others have made.Cons of PPR: it's Just Plain Wrong.
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
Some recent studies have shown that, in most cases, mathematicians are human beings and therefore have tastes and preferences :coffee:
 
But, in my mind, they all fly out the window when I see my opponents' player get a point for a negative-one-yard reception.
How many -1 yd catches do we really see? I looked into this several years ago &, IIRC, in general about 75% of a WR's catches were for first downs.
 
Doug Drinen said:
Enforcer said:
Pros of PPR: all the very good logical arguments others have made.Cons of PPR: it's Just Plain Wrong.
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
Some recent studies have shown that, in most cases, mathematicians are human beings and therefore have tastes and preferences :lmao:
Link? :shrug:
 
Doug Drinen said:
Enforcer said:
Pros of PPR: all the very good logical arguments others have made.Cons of PPR: it's Just Plain Wrong.
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
Some recent studies have shown that, in most cases, mathematicians are human beings and therefore have tastes and preferences :lmao:
Link? :goodposting:
My favorite line is:Figures don't lie. But liars can figure...
 
In my keeper league we do:

1 PPR

.5 pt per com (to raise quarterbacks value)

6 pts per all TD's

-4 pt per Int (to hurt inconsistent active QBs)

1 pt per 10 rush/rec

1 pt per 25 pass

This is my favorite offensive scoring system I have ever used. It rewards workhorses of WR's, RBs who are multi talented, allows TEs to be important, and it lets QBs who run the show to be a high priority. RBs who don't catch balls and also don't get in the endzone are the only ones hurt negatively.

 
Enforcer said:
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
:lmao: The only comment that I would add is that scoring system rules like PPR can enhance the season long competition by adding to the available pool of players especially when injuries crop up.If for instance you were like me and you had Steve Smith, Javon Walker, Calvin Johnson and Larry Johnson on your squad last year, then depending upon your scoring system you could attempt to salvage your season with some viable free agent pickups after Week #04. Otherwise your roster is dead and your season is lost ...
 
Enforcer said:
I'm really surprised to see a mathematician like Dr. Drinen say this. IMO there are no "pros" or "cons" in any scoring system. It simply is. We study it and learn how players performance and value are affected by it. We draft accordingly.
:kicksrock: The only comment that I would add is that scoring system rules like PPR can enhance the season long competition by adding to the available pool of players especially when injuries crop up.
I find it strange that you agree that "there are no pros or cons to any scoring system" and then you go on to describe the pros of a particular scoring system.
 
We switched to PPR after many years w/o it and most liked it, including a few who resisted at first.

I like that it makes WRs/TEs more important, taking the "stud RB" thing down a notch (last year my RBs got dinged up and were mostly major disappointments, but guys like Gates and Owens kept me competitive). Also you can't just get wrapped up in a TD or yardage machine - there are a few guys who won't dazzle in that way but will put up the catches, making them more worthwhile (and adding more useful players to the FA pool). Also it does not knock QBs way down like many seem to think (?).

Really the diff - like the diff between 4 or 6 pts for QBs - is usually exaggerated.

 
Just to make sure my position is clear...

I believe that the ONLY correct set of rules is the one that the twelve (or however many) people in your league want. PPR, no PPR, start 2-QB, 53-man rosters, TD-only scoring, IDP, auction, third-round reversal, yahoo autodraft, best ball, keep-1, keep-3, dynasty, redraft, it's all good if it's what you and your leaguemates prefer.

Leagues whose members want PPR should absolutely have PPR.

I'm just telling you what I, as a league member, happen to prefer.

 
I have never liked PPR at all, but can almost live with it as long as NOTHING is given to RBs for receptions.

I much prefer:

(a) Increasing the fantasy pts per yard for WRs and TEs. For exmple, each yard being .15. If you are going to try to mess with value through a contrivance, I prefer this one. But nobody else does.

(b) Supply and demand. Start 4 WRs and 2 TEs. The S & D is really the biggest reason why RBs are so highly valued.

I also don't like flex much, which is needed for PPR to even start to do its job.

 
I like it. It adds more strategy beyond the usual draft 2 rbs in the first 2 rounds and go from there. It gives you options and having extra choices in draft strategy never hurt.

 
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I am vehemently opposed to it, but it was voted and passed for our league this year.

My main argument is that while it adds more players to the pool for our 16 team league, it lowers the importance of the other positions disproportionately. QB is now a second class citizen, on par with. or slightly above, Defenses. It also pushed combination players like Westbrook unfairly above stud rushers, just because they catch half a dozen swing passes per game.

This is what I get for playing in a neighborhood league with folks who drafted Priest Holmes in the first round last year, and will probably pick Vick this year.
That's ridiculous. It makes every position that much MORE important. Its no longer just about who hits on their RBs. With PPR you have pick all of your players carefully
 
thanks. been there. done that. maybe I use the wrong search criteria: point reception pros cons or point reception comparison
Sorry. I tried "PPR" and forgot about the 4 letter max on a search (wtf on that btw). I know there have been a handful of threads very recently on it tho FYI.
FYI - if you use the google search engine at the bottom of the page you can get around that infirmity in the invision search engine.
 
In answer to the query, it does NOT "de"value other positions. What it does is change the value of players within their position and it increases the value of some players - it actually puts more players besides RBs into top-50/top-100 discussions

Pass-catching RBs = more valuable versus non-pass catching RBs. Receivers' values change. QBs stay constant - they may be drafted overall a little later, but that does not devalue them in your league nor does it change their value during in-season play. The top TEs become a little more valuable on draft day.

 

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