Pros and Cons of Keeper League (1 Viewer)

[Spiderman]

A team owner in my league has proposed a keeper league for the upcoming season. Can you guys take a look and evaluate the pro/cons of this idea ? How can this work ? What are the problems with this, and are they correctable, etc ?

Much appreciated!

I want to propose a 1 player keeper league starting this year. Basically, all it would do is allow each team to carry 1 player into next season. If they choose to not carry any player into the following season, they move to the top of the draft board in the 1st round. This will allow for team's to keep a little identity (for instance, Mike has LT every year for the rest of his career or until he parts ways with him, or Paul has Larry Johnson from here on out). Everybody gets one superstar. No player has remained the best player in the NFL for more than two years in a row, so it will not create a dynasty. Plus, think about this year. Whoever drafted Larry Johnson in the 5th - 7th round last year, would've got one nice present this year being able to hang on to Larry. Same thing when I took LT in the 5th round of his rookie year. He would've been a nice keeper pick. Plus, some teams will have to part with a Superstar. Say for instance Rick drafted Manning 1st overall last year and took Larry in round 5. He would have to choose between them and send one player back to the draft.

If you took LT and he breaks his leg, you don't carry a player over and go to the top of the draft order for your shot at a player like Manning who had to be cut loose. Plus, if you have Carson Palmer or a Ronnie Brown or something coming off a torn ACL, do you keep him or let him go back into the draft.

Bottom line, teams create an identity around their one star player that they have exclusive rights to. Part with him and you move to the top of the 1st round (not get an extra pick). It won't create an unfair advantage, because many people felt that Marshall Faulk would be a stud for a lot more years than was actually the case.

I think it would add an extra element to the league and make us think a bit more. Add a bit more strategy. We can refer to it as our "Franchise Tag". Use it if you want, or pass and move up in the 1st round. It will also encourage the drafting of more "potential" players for the shot that they could pan out in future years, a la LT.

Just an idea. Let me know what you all think. We would have to make the rule before this draft so that you could all go into the draft planning for this.

 

[Bankerguy]

I like a rule stating you cannot keep the same player for more than (Say 3 years). 1 keeper is fine IMO.....

The danger with big keeper leagues that if one team somehow hoses other owners with trades, that the winner is pre-decided and takes away from the league.

Re-Drafts are my personal favorite.

 

[Spike]

I like a rule stating you cannot keep the same player for more than (Say 3 years). 1 keeper is fine IMO.....

The danger with big keeper leagues that if one team somehow hoses other owners with trades, that the winner is pre-decided and takes away from the league.

Re-Drafts are my personal favorite.

I agree with this.

 

[Mordraken]

The danger with big keeper leagues that if one team somehow hoses other owners with trades, that the winner is pre-decided and takes away from the league.

And I agree with this , although with only 1 keeper, and with little "pain", it's unlikely that huge one-sided deals will happen (i.e. it's unlikey the LT owner would trade LT if he was out of the playoff race). You do see that kind of stuff happening in a Keep-5 scenario (e.g. trade LT for Tiki Barber & Antonio Gates).That can be avoided to a certain extent by having a relativley early trade deadline (like week 10) when most teams still have a shot at the playoffs.

IMO keeper leages are a lot of fun. We moved to a career-type keeper league (players have salaries & contract durations) about 5 years ago, and the fun-meter on the pool went way up.

 

[Armando]

I don't mind 1 player keeper as long as the draft order is random each year.

 

[Cixelsyd]

We did a 1 player as you describe and ended up canning it. The biggest issue was rewarding a team that didn't draft well with a pick at the top of the first round.

We had 3 teams that didn't keep a player because they did a horrible job drafting... so they got the top 3 picks.... so a guy who drafted horribly landed Shaun Alexander a few years back.

For the last 3 years, we switch to a 3 keeper system, with no one eligible to be kept that was drafted in the first 3 rounds.... and to keep a player, it will cost you the round drafted minus 2 the next year.... so I drafted Gates 3 years ago in the 17th round... so he was a 15th rounder last year and a 13th rounder this year...

We also put a 3 year limit on keepiong a player.

This has worked great... and it reward people who drafted well and if you don't have any keepers, you don't get a "significant award".

 

[Yenrub]

My league keeps 2 players. Each team must keep two players and the draft order is totally random. Also no player can be kept 2 seasons in a row. Meaning a guy drafted in 2005 can be kept for 2006 but has to be put back into the draft for 2007, even if he is traded away from the team kept him in 2006.

Sometimes this creates some baseball type trades at the end of the season, where you have a team that has no shot at the playoffs trading for potential keepers to a team in the playoff hunt.

Last year a guy who was out of the playoff picture traded for Culpepper and McAllister (both were on the NFL IR at the time) right before the trade deadline. Both Culpepper and McAllister can be keepers this season.

The trade was Brunell, Joe Horn and Panthers defense for Culpepper, McAllister and Rod Smith.

edited to add the trade details

 

[Spiderman]

My friend also just emailed the following explanation of his keeper league idea:

With a change like this, a lot of the issues would need to get worked out, but here are my thoughts on the matter.

The draft order is determined the following year the same way. For instance, turtle races, dog fighting, crab grappling, or whatever. Let's say the order is I pick 2nd, you 5th, Rick 9th, and Brian 12th based on random chance. If I keep my "Franchise Player", you don't use your tag, Rick keeps LT, and Brian dumps his back into the pool of players. You and Brian and whoever else didn't use their tag, move to the top of the draft order in the way that random chance had determined their existing order. For instance, if you and Brian were the only ones that chose to not use the tag, you move to the #1 pick (because your original pick was 5th), Brian to #2 (because his original pick was after yours at #12), and everyone else that hung onto a player moves back accordingly. It can't be worst to first, because that encourages cannibalizing your team at the end of the season or starting junk to get a higher pick.

As far as starting out with one less player going into the draft, you would simply make a pick in the 14th round, when the guys who "franchised" someone would pass (or draft and then have to cut someone). The strategy would be that if you feel that you can keep Cedric Benson and get another semi-quality player in the 1st round, would that be more beneficial than dumping Benson, moving up in the 1st round to make a move at a guy who had to be cut (say Tiki Barber) and then not drafting to the 2nd round. There will be 2-3 players that should be keepers that have to be released because they were on the same team as a better keeper. They have to go into the draft. Its a strategy play. If keeping Benson and the 12th pick in the draft isn't as promising as getting that shot at Tiki, then I dump Benson and move up in the draft. Is Tiki more valuable than Benson and the 12th pick? Its your call.

As for the trade scenario, you cannot deal future 1st round picks (primarily because we do not have your money for next year). This does not create an open window to trade picks in the following years draft. Therefore, if you trade your potential keeper when you are out of the playoffs, what do you benefit? Now you have nobody to keep for next year, when Benson could've been a solid piece to next year's puzzle. What could you get back in return when you are done that would be worth losing the option? For instance, you're out. If you keep Benson instead of dealing him in a meaningless trade, you have options next year. You can wait and see where your draft position is before making the determination to keep, deal, or release Benson. You can trade your keeper for a 1st round pick, but can't trade a potential keeper and then keep someone else. You have to determine one player you want to work with. The rest go back into the draft. Then you can trade your one keeper for picks if you like. But you don't get to move up in the draft because technically, you've chose to "tag" your guy. What you did with him after that is up to you.

Does that make sense?

Another idea I was reading about this year was very interesting. Not sure we had the consistency to deal with this in the past, but what they did was in their 1st round, they said 1st round picks are on your team for 3 years, 2nd rounders for 2 years, and 3rd rounders and on are all only on 1 year deals. After the 3 years are up on your 1st round pick, they become "free agents" by going back into the draft. Whoever drafts them the year they go back in, if they draft them in the 1st round again, gets that player on another 3 year deal, or 2nd round for 2 years, etc. It creates the dynamic of drafting for younger players with more potential on your bench, cutting established veterans under contract or dealing those contracts to other teams, more roster management from season to season, and still does not diminish the draft itself because top players are circulated back into the draft. For example, with Larry Johnson drafted in the 5th round, his "contract" would be up and he would be back in the draft all over again. In that league, they used a worst to first draft order, but still used a reverse round system. So the worst team would have the 1st pick, but would also have the last pick in the 2nd round.

Just some interesting ideas.

 

[mightymorse]

It sounds like you'd be starting your keeper league based on the players you drafted last year (as a redraft league). I would definitely recommend drafting from scratch again with the intention of doing these keeper rules in the following year. Implementing a keeper rule now is akin to changing the rules on people. I made this mistake a few years ago as commish, and regretted it.

 

[Bankerguy]

Agreed......you have to start fresh.

 

[GregR_2]

...For instance, if you and Brian were the only ones that chose to not use the tag, you move to the #1 pick (because your original pick was 5th), Brian to #2 (because his original pick was after yours at #12), and everyone else that hung onto a player moves back accordingly. ... As far as starting out with one less player going into the draft, you would simply make a pick in the 14th round, when the guys who "franchised" someone would pass (or draft and then have to cut someone). ...

So let's get this straight. Just to walk through what would happen, let's assume 6 teams keep the best 6 players, who would normally go 1-6 in a redraft. The other 6 teams don't keep anyone.The teams who didn't keep anyone get the first 6 picks and can take players that amount to players 7-12 in a redraft (since the best 6 are taken)The teams who kept players already have players that amount to players 1-6. Then they still have a 1st round pick and can take players 13-18. Then assuming serpentine, they pick first in the 2nd round and get to take players 19-24.So in short, if you have LT/LJ/SA, instead of what amounts to picks 1, 24 and 25, you would get FOUR picks in the first 3 rounds that amount to a redraft level of 1, 13, 24, 36.... while the guy who doesn't have a player worth keeping gets what amounts to picks 7, 25, 26? At the very least if you keep a player you don't get a 1st round pick.

 

[Adam Sommer]

The success of a keeper league depends largely on how much strategy you want involved and how savvy your owners are.

The best keeper league Ive been in (and the only one I still participate in) has these key rules regarding keepers:

1. Can keep 0-3 players per year.

2. Can keep a player forever.

3. You lose the draft pick from the round the player was orginally drafted in.

So things to consider:

1. Often owners keep players they traded for, not drafted. In this case, you lose the draft pick that was used to draft the player by the other team. If you have already lost that pick to one of your own keeper players, you lose the pick from the next round up (so if you already lost a 5th rounder, you would then lose a 4th rounder).

2. Every year you keep a player, the price increases until you are at the 1st round. For example, if you keep a player drafted in the 4th round, he costs you a 4th rounder this year. If you keep him again next year, he will cost a 3rd rounder, then a 2nd the next, and then a 1st from then on.

3. You have the choice to keep a player or not. You can have 3 keepers, or none.

Keeper leagues can be a lot of fun and add a lot of strategy for good owners. If you drafted Fitz in the 7th round or Willie Parker in the 16th round, well then you have a great value for many years to come. IMO someone like Rudi Johnson in the 1st is not great VALUE, and depending on the other owners and their keepers, it might make sense to let Rudi go, get a fresh 1st round pick, and keep a value play like the ones I mentioned. savvy owners will see this, and can actually build a team over time. Other owners will just keep the same three studs year after year, which changes nothing as they would most likely be drafted early anyhow.

(For example, last year I did draft Parker in the 16th, Fitz his rookie season in the 7th, and LaMont Jordan in the 5th. I decided to keep these three and let Rudi go. Ironically the other 9 teams all had first round keepers, so I had the #1 overall pick. I drafted Rudi.)

 

[Adam Sommer]

...For instance, if you and Brian were

At the very least if you keep a player you don't get a 1st round pick.

That is typically how it works. If you keep a first round pick player, that "counts" as you pick. You dont get another 1st round pick at the end of the round.

The draft is set-up as normal, but when your pick for that round comes up, the player is automatically drafted for you. No one else can draft your keepers.

For example, If I keep Willie Parker and he was drafted in the 16th last year, he would be my pick in the 16th round this year. No one else can draft him, but it will "lool" like I drafted him in round 16.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

I do a keep 1 league and it works out well. My keeper the first 2 years was Randy Moss. I got LJ in the 5th last year so needless to say he will be my keeper this year. We have no rules about the number of years you can keep a player and our draft order is determinded by record from the previous year (worst to first, serpentine) with the first round being keepers. We also have it where you must keep 1.

 

[GregR_2]

...For instance, if you and Brian were



At the very least if you keep a player you don't get a 1st round pick.

That is typically how it works. If you keep a first round pick player, that "counts" as you pick. You dont get another 1st round pick at the end of the round.The draft is set-up as normal, but when your pick for that round comes up, the player is automatically drafted for you. No one else can draft your keepers.

For example, If I keep Willie Parker and he was drafted in the 16th last year, he would be my pick in the 16th round this year. No one else can draft him, but it will "lool" like I drafted him in round 16.

That, or he's just a first round pick and where he was taken doesn't matter. So if you kept FWP, he would be your 1st round pick.I actually prefer it like that (having it cost your early pick and not the round you originally took him). The reason being the magnitude of the advantage that being able to keep a Clinton Portis for a 10th round pick, vs the magnitude of him being your 1st round pick.

I want a keeper league to be more about emphasizing the role of strategy than about keeping the strong teams strong. While allowing an FWP to be kept with a 16th round pick does indeed increase strategy, I just think the amount of advantage it can give a team is too much for the amount of increase you get.

 

[jestertj]

I do a keep 1 league and it works out well. My keeper the first 2 years was Randy Moss. I got LJ in the 5th last year so needless to say he will be my keeper this year. We have no rules about the number of years you can keep a player and our draft order is determinded by record from the previous year (worst to first, serpentine) with the first round being keepers. We also have it where you must keep 1.

Ditto with this for the league I play in. It's fair, simple and straight forward. It's helped to keep things more interesting with more guys having different options from year to year. Most guys don't have the same keeper for more than 2-3 seasons, except for the guy who drafted LT as a rookie or someone in a similar situation.

 

[houndirish]

My redraft went with keepers beginning two years ago. I think it sucks. We're allowed to keep up to 2 players. If we keep both we surrender 1st and 2nd round picks. You're not allowed to keep a player more than 2 years.

Personally, I hated it since there was little strategy to it. If you had a stud RB you kep him. If you had Peyton or maybe some other stud QB you kept him. I think Moss and CJ were kept at some point too. However there was absolutely no strategy to it. In hindsight I would've much preferred to go pure redraft or pure dynasty (far better option IMHO) but the way we currently have it set sucks.

Now there are some rules I've heard that I like regarding keeper leagues.

You should limit the number of years a player may be kept.

If you allow more than 1 keeper, don't allow multiple keepers at the same position. For ex. you're only allowed to keep 1 RB.

Personally keeper is the WORST way to go IMHO. It doesn't take much effort to realize you should keep Tomlinson.

 

[Adam Sommer]

I agree with the time point...only twice has the same team kept the same player more than 2 years in my league....

This is mainly attributed to an active league where there are a lot of trades, so of course over the years even the best players change hands quite a bit.

As far as what round of a pick a keeper should cost you.....well thats why I said it largely depends on the owners of the league.....a savvy league with 10 owners all active on places like FBG and the like will be able to handle the added strategy of the league I descibed.

But, if you have owners who show up on draft day and then never again (until next years draft), the you're right, the simpler the better. Otherwise you going to have a league with 5 NNY teams and 5 Tampa Bay Devil Rays teams. Thats no fun for anyone.....

 

[Adam Sommer]

My redraft went with keepers beginning two years ago. I think it sucks. We're allowed to keep up to 2 players. If we keep both we surrender 1st and 2nd round picks. You're not allowed to keep a player more than 2 years.

Personally, I hated it since there was little strategy to it. If you had a stud RB you kep him. If you had Peyton or maybe some other stud QB you kept him. I think Moss and CJ were kept at some point too. However there was absolutely no strategy to it. In hindsight I would've much preferred to go pure redraft or pure dynasty (far better option IMHO) but the way we currently have it set sucks.

Now there are some rules I've heard that I like regarding keeper leagues.

You should limit the number of years a player may be kept.

If you allow more than 1 keeper, don't allow multiple keepers at the same position. For ex. you're only allowed to keep 1 RB.

Personally keeper is the WORST way to go IMHO. It doesn't take much effort to realize you should keep Tomlinson.

This is why I suggested the rules my league uses.10 good owners would of course have 10 quality 1st round picks. All a keeper league would do in this situation is make rounds 1 and 2 of your draft the same from year-to-year, which is no fun.

 

[BigRed]

A team owner in my league has proposed a keeper league for the upcoming season. Can you guys take a look and evaluate the pro/cons of this idea ? How can this work ? What are the problems with this, and are they correctable, etc ?

We did 1 keeper in my old league and I liked it. In fact I think 1-2 keepers is the perfect # because the more you have, the more boring the draft becomes, plus I like the idea of having most of the big name players avail. But I also like a keeper or 2 as it gives your team a little continuity and rewards smart drafting.Typically we said a keeper must be exchanged for 1 round draft pick higher than they were picked, with a minimum of I think a 3d rounder. (I wanted the min to be lower) This meant you could keep a player a max of 3 yrs. I like the idea of keeping a player minimized to some extent or other, personally.

 

[kbleck]

one thing to keep in mind is that you should always start a Keeper league with a fresh draft. So for example people would not hold over a keeper from last year's roster. Every owner would know going into this year that they are drafting for a 1 player keeper league next year.

The reason for this is that obviously people with good keepers will vote yes for this and people that dont have a good keeper would vote no.

Start off with a random draft position and know that you are drafting for 1 keeper next year.

 

[jziccfbg]

I think the best of both worlds (between a keeper and a dynasty) is a 14 team league (14 offers the most challenge without being completely diluted like a 16) with 9 keepers (each year 1 higher round then their original draft position) then the little twist is that no first rounders can be kept.... this equalizes (ala PARITY) the teams and keeps each new year fresh but still offers the "dynasty" feel ---- Now if only I could find someone offering a league like this...

 

[Spiderman]

one thing to keep in mind is that you should always start a Keeper league with a fresh draft. So for example people would not hold over a keeper from last year's roster. Every owner would know going into this year that they are drafting for a 1 player keeper league next year.

The reason for this is that obviously people with good keepers will vote yes for this and people that dont have a good keeper would vote no.

Start off with a random draft position and know that you are drafting for 1 keeper next year.

Starting off fresh would be the idea should we do this.

 

[Iceman66]

We allow for 2 keepers, but for only 1 season. In turn that team loses the draft choice that the player was chosen in. In rewards good draft choices Ex. LJ in 9th round, but keeps the league viable because their is no power house each and every year. Our drafts have Alexander, LT, every season, because no one wants to lose their first round selection.