Punt and Kickoff Returners 2009 (1 Viewer)

[Tenacious]

Thanks Mike,

Quick question, is there anywhere on the FBG site to find a list of returners and their projected return stats for 2009?

 

[Tenacious]

Also, you listed rookies to watch. Where's Percy Harvin in the battle for KR duties? He's got a decent shot at the KR role in Minnesota, in addition to a fairly significant role on offense.

I assume you follow all the camp battles for return duty, just wondering if you've heard anything.

I'm also curious about the Giants' return camp battle.

 

[Zow]

I have never played in a league that does this but my big money league is switching to adding in return yardage for individual offensive players (+1 for every ten punt return yards, +1 for every 25 kick return yards).

I imagine this bumps the value of guys like Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Laurence Marony but I haven't had time to sit down and factor all this into my rankings. Has anyone had the chance to do this yet? Advice to give? A list of players to upgrade?

 

[drew726]

There are definitely huge upgrades. To give you an idea, the 5th highest scoring WR in our league last season was Steve Breaston and he didn't even return all kickoffs throughout the year. As soon as Ted Ginn Jr retained his return duties last year, he went on a tear and was scoring about 20-27 points a game. It is very hard to find a starter who does returns because as soon as they get a more prominent role in the team, the coach usually gives the return duties to someone lower on the depth charts. This is why even though Reggie Bush gets injured all the time, the games he does play, he easily scores 30 points for you in return/PPR leagues. He almost guarantees you a win whenever he plays. When JJ Arrington got kickoff return duties at the end of the year, he and Josh Wilson carried me to the championships. Eddie Royal was the 3rd highest scoring WR in our league and Johnnie Lee Higgens outscored Reggie Wayne. It really adds an interesting aspect to fantasy football and makes you follow fantasy news even closer because returners could change on a weekly basis.

 

[Zow]

I'm going to have to get home and take a look at the league's website and scoring leaders from last year. The way the guys at the draft were talking the return bonuses didn't seem like a major factor, but some of those state Drew pointed out really seem an absurd difference.

 

[The Jacket]

I'm going to have to get home and take a look at the league's website and scoring leaders from last year.

That's your best bet.The core of my team in a PPR/return scoring league is CJ3/Leon W/Fitzgerald/Andre J/R Moss, and people generally say, "Sick WRs but a little weak at RB." What they don't realize is that Leon was the RB7 last year. In short, guys like Washington (of which there are few, I suppose) are legit RB1s, not flex plays. Jerious Norwood was, off the top of my head, RB22 last year; a low-end RB2 or high-end RB3, not an afterthought.

In said league, Eddie Royal was WR5, Steve Breaston WR12, etc.

 

[Jayrod]

I have never played in a league that does this but my big money league is switching to adding in return yardage for individual offensive players (+1 for every ten punt return yards, +1 for every 25 kick return yards). I imagine this bumps the value of guys like Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Laurence Marony but I haven't had time to sit down and factor all this into my rankings. Has anyone had the chance to do this yet? Advice to give? A list of players to upgrade?

Guys to upgrade:RB Pierre ThomasRB Reggie BushRB Lawrence MaroneyRB Darren SprolesRB Jerious NorwoodRB Leon Washington (huge upgrade)WR Ted GinnWR Josh CribbsWR Nate BurlesonGuys who have seem to have lost their return duties from last year include Royal, Breaston & Hester.That's off the top of my head. There is an entire thread that Mike Herman keeps on returnerguys somewhere around here...

 

[Knobs]

1 point for 10 punt return yards? I think you guys might realize that's a mistake...but check out Mike Herman's thread to take advantage of that.

Ginn

Breaston

Hester

Leon

Norwood

Sproles

DeSean

Bush

Those are just a couple offensive players I can think of off the top of my head who get a bump in value.

 

[Knobs]

I have never played in a league that does this but my big money league is switching to adding in return yardage for individual offensive players (+1 for every ten punt return yards, +1 for every 25 kick return yards). I imagine this bumps the value of guys like Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Laurence Marony but I haven't had time to sit down and factor all this into my rankings. Has anyone had the chance to do this yet? Advice to give? A list of players to upgrade?

Guys who have seem to have lost their return duties from last year include Royal, Breaston & Hester.That's off the top of my head. There is an entire thread that Mike Herman keeps on returnerguys somewhere around here...

Breaston has been named as the early return man. Hester will likely be doing punt returns.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'd also add Davone Bess to the list. A sleeper even in non-return formats.

 

[mrspree15]

I'm going to have to get home and take a look at the league's website and scoring leaders from last year.

That's your best bet.The core of my team in a PPR/return scoring league is CJ3/Leon W/Fitzgerald/Andre J/R Moss, and people generally say, "Sick WRs but a little weak at RB." What they don't realize is that Leon was the RB7 last year. In short, guys like Washington (of which there are few, I suppose) are legit RB1s, not flex plays. Jerious Norwood was, off the top of my head, RB22 last year; a low-end RB2 or high-end RB3, not an afterthought.

In said league, Eddie Royal was WR5, Steve Breaston WR12, etc.

So in your league, it would not be insane to take a Leon Washington type in the 1st or 2nd round? This is just hard for me to wrap my head around after doing non-return leagues for so long. I'm doing projections and guys like Norwood, Washington, and Sproles are ending up around the top 10 RBs and I'm doing double takes.

 

[drew726]

You'd be insane not to take Leon Washington in the 2nd round.

 

[Jayrod]

I have never played in a league that does this but my big money league is switching to adding in return yardage for individual offensive players (+1 for every ten punt return yards, +1 for every 25 kick return yards). I imagine this bumps the value of guys like Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Laurence Marony but I haven't had time to sit down and factor all this into my rankings. Has anyone had the chance to do this yet? Advice to give? A list of players to upgrade?

Guys who have seem to have lost their return duties from last year include Royal, Breaston & Hester.That's off the top of my head. There is an entire thread that Mike Herman keeps on returnerguys somewhere around here...

Breaston has been named as the early return man. Hester will likely be doing punt returns.

Huh. Thought I read otherwise on both of them....but I did say "off the top of my head" so I could very well be wrong.

 

[Mike Herman]

MINNESOTA

When Percy Harvin arrived at Vikings training camp three days late, he had some things to learn about catching kicks before he could be relied upon. He caught the balls with an awkward style, an indication of his inexperience. But after more than a week of heavy repetitions, Harvin has more confidence in his return abilities. "I'm pretty much good with it now," he said. "It took a little while, but I'm feeling more and more comfortable with it. When we do our special-teams workout, I pretty much take all the reps." Harvin's return skills will be relied upon as a key cog in improving the Vikings' return units. He appears more likely to return kicks than punts, at least at this point, while he polishes his skills more in the latter area.

The Vikings have three players competing to be the primary return men: Harvin, Jaymar Johnson and Darius Reynaud. Harvin will be the starting kick returner Friday night in the exhibition opener at Indianapolis, with Reynaud slotted to get a chance next. Special-teams coach Brian Murphy cautions, however, not to read too much into that order of sequence. Murphy is eager to see how the special teams perform in games. The focus will fall on Harvin, the first-round pick out of Florida. "I think he is tremendously comfortable, and a guy with his athletic ability, once he gets the ball in his hands, there is not much more of coaching that needs to be done," Murphy said. "He is pretty dynamic with the ball in his hands." But questions remain about how securely he catches the ball. During a recent practice, Harvin dropped a kickoff and bobbled another. Murphy said he's comfortable with Harvin's ball security, though, crediting the rookie for working on his return skills this offseason in Florida. Regarding Harvin's technique, the coach said repetitions are crucial at this point. "He has to do things right," Murphy said. "Do it right once, do it right again. It takes consistency in receiving the ball. I think you guys know he does great things when he has the ball in his hands, but he needs to secure the ball. We have identified some areas for him that he needs to concentrate on, and he has done a great job with that."

Reynaud knows what it's like to make the transition from college to the NFL. He did it last year and immediately learned a lesson about what it takes to succeed on returns. "That's all it is, instinct," Reynaud said. "Just get the ball and run. Don't slow it down, because they've got guys coming full throttle at you. I had to learn that last year. My first time getting activated (for a game), I was trying to find a way through the hole. I talked to some players on special teams. They said just run. If you have to make some moves, make some moves — just make sure you hit it going full speed."

As for the punt-return job, Johnson appears to have the edge. He worked extra hours with punter Chris Kluwe at Winter Park this offseason, and that has paid off. Johnson might be locked in a position battle with Reynaud. They need to prove their versatility so they can compete perhaps for the fifth receiver spot on the 53-man roster. Reynaud said he's looking forward to the competition because that makes everyone better. "Now we've got some great players on special teams, punt returns, kick returns," said Reynaud, who had the team's longest kick return last season (49 yards Nov. 30 against Chicago). "You're going to see a lot of good stuff this year on special teams."

LINK

 

[Zow]

Looked at the league's scoring leaders from last year and the guys you mentioned all were in the top 40 with Leon washington coming in at oddly the highest around 24 or so. I think the difference is fractional scoring for normal yards from scrimmage, whereas return it is only 1 for every 10 total yards. Looks like Leon may deserve some consideration in the 4-5 round.

 

[Steel Dillo]

Cribbs has been mentioned, but I think he could be an even better play this year because he will receive more looks at WR/Wildcat QB in addition to his KO/P return duties.

 

[massraider]

Looked at the league's scoring leaders from last year and the guys you mentioned all were in the top 40 with Leon washington coming in at oddly the highest around 24 or so. I think the difference is fractional scoring for normal yards from scrimmage, whereas return it is only 1 for every 10 total yards. Looks like Leon may deserve some consideration in the 4-5 round.

Bingo. That's huge.It means if you want points, better off getting the KO guys, rather than punt returners.

 

[The Jacket]

So in your league, it would not be insane to take a Leon Washington type in the 1st or 2nd round? This is just hard for me to wrap my head around after doing non-return leagues for so long. I'm doing projections and guys like Norwood, Washington, and Sproles are ending up around the top 10 RBs and I'm doing double takes.

Simply for the fact that people don't realize how valuable a guy like Washington is, I'd definitely wait and pray. I'm not really sure where you'd take him. For reference, the league I mention was a dynasty start-up last year. I took Washington in the 9th round (10th pick) and Norwood in the 10th (12th pick). You obviously wouldn't wait near that long. After all that, it only takes one savvy owner to have a one-two turn with, say, Slaton and Washington and you'd be out of luck.I think personally I'd target him in round three. Take your preference of RB/WR, WR/RB or WR/WR in the first two, and come back with Washington in round three. He's an elite RB2 even if his production drops off from last year. You could safely laugh at owners who went RB-RB and don't have as good a RB2 as you, in addition to being much worse at WR1.

 

[SSOG]

Looked at the league's scoring leaders from last year and the guys you mentioned all were in the top 40 with Leon washington coming in at oddly the highest around 24 or so. I think the difference is fractional scoring for normal yards from scrimmage, whereas return it is only 1 for every 10 total yards. Looks like Leon may deserve some consideration in the 4-5 round.

Bingo. That's huge.It means if you want points, better off getting the KO guys, rather than punt returners.

Definitely- even a mediocre returner can average 25 yards a KO return (i.e. a point per return), while only the very best (Devin Hester, Dante Hall, etc) can average 10 per punt return (i.e. a point per return). Also, KO returns are more common than punt returns.Really good punt returners (Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, DeSean Jackson) will all roll up about 300 punt return yards a season. When I'm drafting, I just go into the draft dominator and add 300 extra receiving yards to their total to simulate this. Guys who are purely punt returners are mostly useless, but WRs who also return punts (Welker, Royal, Hester, Jackson) become gold- suddenly an 800 yard receiver becomes the equivalent of an 1100 yard receiver.

As far as kick returns go... scoring tends to be pretty volatile. Some leagues award a point per 10 yards, which is INSANE and makes kick returners legit 1st round picks. Other leagues are like yours and give 1 per 25, which isn't as insane- it makes kick returns more valuable than punt returns, but a player isn't a legit starter unless he's either doing both or also playing a role on offense. My league gives 1 point per 10, but gives -2 points per kickoff return ATTEMPT (meaning players only get rewarded for yards they get above and beyond the 20 yards they'd get if they just let it roll for a touchback), and in this system, kick returns make very little difference in a player's value- it's all about the punt returns.

 

[GDogg]

 

[Mike Herman]

DALLAS

A legitimate home-run threat hasn't returned punts for the Dallas Cowboys since Deion Sanders handled the chore in the late 1990s. But that may change this season if running back/kick returner Felix Jones learns how to do the job. Jones is in a practice rotation at punt returner that includes Patrick Crayton, Terence Newman, DeAngelo Smith and Willie Reid. With his speed and moves, Jones is the most intriguing candidate. “He's got such great speed, and such good ability to run with the ball in his hands,” special teams coach Joe DeCamillis said this week at training camp in San Antonio. There's only one problem: The last time Jones returned punts, he was a senior at Booker T. Washington High School in Tulsa, Okla. “I've been working at it,” Jones said. “I'm looking forward to getting better. I absolutely want to do it.” In Thursday night's preseason opener against the Raiders, Reid returned the only punt in the first quarter.

linkNEW ENGLAND

Seventh-round draft pick WR Julian Edelman returned a punt 75 yards for a touchdown in the second quarter. The Patriots have not had a punt returned for a touchdown in the regular season since Troy Brown returned a punt 68 yards for a touchdown at Carolina (1-6-02) during the last game of the 2001 season. Edelman finished the game with five receptions for 37 yards, one punt returns for a 75-yard TD and one kickoff returns for 24 yards.

link

 

[Mike Herman]

ARIZONA

“There's no question the guy's got speed. If he can translate that into seeing a hole and hitting it and pulling through some tackles, he definitely can be a factor in that aspect of our game.”

- HC Ken Whisenhunt on Michael Ray Garvin's returnerguy prospects

 

[senor peso 2006]

 

[Mike Herman]

PHILADELPHIA

“I would like to see him make better decisions on fielding the ball. As the game went on, I think he got a little bit better, a little more comfortable. The early kickoff returns, some of the decisions he made could've been a little better.”

- Special teams coordinator Ted Daisher on Jeremy Maclin

Maclin handled the majority of the return work against NE, averaging 25.0 yard on four kickoff returns and averaging 10.5 yards on two punt returns

 

[Tenacious]

WR Eddie Royal was removed from the depth chart at kick and punt returner, a nod to his importance on offense. Alphonso Smith is Denver's primary kick returner.

(Yahoo! Sports)

 

[Knobs]

Yeah, go look in the IDP forum.Anybody got Buffalo updates?

Isn't McKelvin still doing the returns?

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

MORE ON THE WEDGE

See also the rule changes thread.

The lights in the offices of special teams coaches across the NFL will be on a bit later at night than usual this offseason, because their jobs just became much more challenging. When owners voted last week to eliminate a wedge on kickoff returns that includes more than two players, citing safety concerns, some called it a minor alteration. But it's far from that to special teams coaches, who now are forced to rewrite significant portions of their playbooks because of how prominent the wedge had become. The wedge is a human wall, often including 300-pound linemen who line up closest to the returner and whose job it is to take on coverage players who have built up great velocity from surging down the field. They usually absorb the most violent hits on each return, and this will limit those collisions.

Teams like the Redskins and Giants figure to be most affected, as they regularly run powerful four-man wedges. A couple of teams occasionally run a five-man wedge. "Most everybody runs a three or a four, and has for years," said Bills special teams coach Bobby April, whose units annually rank near the top of the NFL. "I told my wife, with these rules I just added a lot more work hours because we run that and we've run that for a long time and been successful with it. It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of ingenuity to come up with a different offense, because basically a kickoff return is an offensive play. This might be too dramatic, but if we ran the wishbone and all of a sudden they said, 'You can't run the wishbone anymore,' that offensive staff is going to have to come up with something. We're on a smaller scale because certainly there are less kickoff returns, but all of us are going to have to come up with something different, because across the board almost everybody is affected by this."

First-year Patriots special teams coach Scott O'Brien concurred. Once he learns more about how officials plan to interpret all aspects of the rule, he'll head back to the drawing board. "The wedge has been around as long as I can remember, where you utilized it or had to deal with it one way or another, so it's going to force everybody now to re-create their return schemes and have a different look on how to defend those returns," O'Brien said.

In search of improvements for the Cardinals' return game in 2009, special teams coach Kevin Spencer recently put together footage of the four-man wedges of the Redskins and Giants. Spencer had planned to adopt more of that style, but he's since changed course. "I wanted to study it and was thinking that was maybe a way I should go from a teaching and repetition standpoint. Now I'll have to go look at other things," Spencer said. "At least we're not finding out in June and scrambling to get your playbook ready for July, when you have to teach the guys. Coaches are paid to coach and be creative, so we're doing what we're paid to do."

Although they will be breaking from tradition, April, O'Brien, and Spencer favor the change if it means player safety will be enhanced. While some teams might still have a couple of bigger linemen leading the returner as part of a two-man wedge, all three coaches anticipate that kickoff return teams will now feature more players with a different body type. Thus, there is likely to be a trickle-down effect in how head coaches determine their 45-man game-day rosters - a backup lineman who might be in the wedge could turn out to be a luxury that is no longer feasible. "Now you could be eliminating them," O'Brien said. "You could find a lot more smaller athletes on the field both ways because they're one-on-one and you have to be able to play in space. I think it will create a little more excitement that way in terms of the matchups we have on the field."

More teams figure to adopt what is often referred to as a "match" or "man" return, which April describes as "when you literally match up 10 against 10 and guys single block." Former Patriots special teams coach Brad Seely was considered among his colleagues to be a master of coaching the "match" return when he was with the Panthers in the 1990s and had explosive returner Michael Bates. Seely, who joined the Browns this year, became more of a wedge coach in recent years in New England. "But you might see that kind of matchup scheme come back into vogue," Spencer said. "You don't ever really get rid of stuff, it just sort of comes and goes, and that might be something you see come back. It will depend on each coach's philosophy and what type of personnel you have."

The change might appear subtle to the casual fan - and perhaps not noticed - but it's already a big topic among special teams coaches. "I don't think the fans will be shortchanged, I think you'll still see some big returns," April said. "It's going to take some ingenuity and creativity to come up with different things for teams who strictly run that style of [wedge] attack, but I don't think it will take away from the excellence or the beauty of the kicking game."

link

:niceposting: it's #### like this that makes all the trudging through FF dudes just wildly prognosticating (ie without analysis) worthwhile. well done (thread and post)

 

[Mike Herman]

PITTSBURGH

"Stefan Logan is going to get the first look this week at both punts and kickoff returns, but I wouldn't rad too much into it. We just came in with the plan that we are going to see some guys. Last week we had Mike Wallace as the kick returner and Joe Burnett as the punt guy. Next week we'll see what brings."

- HC Mike Tomlin

 

[Eph]

TIER RANKINGS

Here’s my first stab at grouping the returners into tiers of relative value, to get the discussion started. It gives KR higher value over PR. It does not take offensive or defensive production into account. Wide open competitions or likely return-by-committee situations are not ranked.

1. ELITE KR & PR

WR Josh Cribbs, Cle

RB Leon Washington, NYJ

RB Darren Sproles, SD

RB Clifton Smith, TB

2. KR & PR

CB Chris Carr, Bal

WR Derrick Williams, Det (return specialist is the rookies job to lose)

CB Will Blackmon, GB

DB Brian Witherspoon, Jac

DB Allen Rossum, SF

WR Derek Stanley, STL

WR Mark Jones, Ten

3. ELITE KR

CB Leodis McKelvin, Buf

DB Danieal Manning, Chi

CB Justin Miller, Oak

4. ELITE PR

WR Roscoe Parrish, Buf

WR Devin Hester, Chi

WR Jacoby Jones, Hou

RB Reggie Bush, NO

WR Johnnie Lee Higgins, Oak

5. KR ONLY

RB Jerious Norwood, Atl

WR Andre Caldwell, Cin

RB Felix Jones, Dal

WR Andre Davis, Hou

RB Dantrell Savage, KC

WR Ted Ginn Jr., Mia

WR Courtney Roby, NO

CB Ellis Hobbs, Phi

CB Josh Wilson, Sea

RB Rock Cartwright, Was

6. PR ONLY

WR Steve Breaston, Ari (could also handle KR, but probably won’t)

WR Harry Douglas, Atl

WR Eddie Royal, Den

WR Davone Bess, Mia

WR Wes Welker, NE

7. ROOKIE CANDIDATES TO WATCH

WR Larry Beavers, Car

WR Quan Cosby, Cin

WR Quinten Lawrence, KC

WR Jeremy Maclin, Phi

CB Joe Burnett, Pit

Mike, Can you please do an update to this list?

Thanks!

Eph

 

[vnel8tn]

 

[Eph]

Mike,

Since DD doesn't recognize KR/PR yards, do you have any recommendations on how many spots up to "promote" an Elite KR/PR in a league where we have 0.04pts/yard (25 yards/pt)?

What about the other categories?

Thanks,

Eph

 

[jerseydevil20]

Mike,Since DD doesn't recognize KR/PR yards, do you have any recommendations on how many spots up to "promote" an Elite KR/PR in a league where we have 0.04pts/yard (25 yards/pt)?What about the other categories?Thanks,Eph

If the yds/pt for return yards matches the yds/pt for passing, receiving, or rushing you can just add the number of return yards you expect for that player in that category. For example, if return yards are rewarded at the same rate as passing yards, Josh Cribbs now will have about 1300 passing yards this year.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Mike,Since DD doesn't recognize KR/PR yards, do you have any recommendations on how many spots up to "promote" an Elite KR/PR in a league where we have 0.04pts/yard (25 yards/pt)?What about the other categories?Thanks,Eph

If the yds/pt for return yards matches the yds/pt for passing, receiving, or rushing you can just add the number of return yards you expect for that player in that category. For example, if return yards are rewarded at the same rate as passing yards, Josh Cribbs now will have about 1300 passing yards this year.

Any suggestions for projections out there that are trustworthy and can act as a baseline for me to tweak? Herman, have you put anything like this out there that I am missing in the subscriber sections?

 

[SSOG]

Mike,Since DD doesn't recognize KR/PR yards, do you have any recommendations on how many spots up to "promote" an Elite KR/PR in a league where we have 0.04pts/yard (25 yards/pt)?What about the other categories?Thanks,Eph

Good punt returners post at least 200 yards, with 400 being an elite season and 250-300 being a pretty good total.Examples from last yeareSean Jackson (50/440), Devin Hester (32/198), Steve Breaston (33/237), Darren Sproles (22/249), Reggie Bush (32/432 - numbers prorated). Looking at previous years you see similar patterns- full-time returners are pretty much a lock for 200-250 yards, while the really elite ones can push 400.As far as Kickoff Returns go... I don't pay as much attention to them, as k/o return yardage is very lightly rewarded in our league (there's a penalty per attempt, so only yards above and beyond 20 wind up benefitting you). It seems like the good kick returners average about 1200 yards a league. Try to get a kick returner on a team with a terrible defense, because kick returners are going to average about a point (i.e. 25 yards) per attempt, so grab one who'll be seeing a lot of attempts.

 

[SSOG]

What's the deal with the returners in Philadelphia? I was under the impression that Maclin was going to be handling kickoffs and Jackson would be doing punts, but so far during the preseason Maclin seems to be fielding all the punt returns, too. Is this the new coaching staff just getting him some experience, or is he going to be handling all return duties full-time this year?

 

[spider321]

What's the deal with the returners in Philadelphia? I was under the impression that Maclin was going to be handling kickoffs and Jackson would be doing punts, but so far during the preseason Maclin seems to be fielding all the punt returns, too. Is this the new coaching staff just getting him some experience, or is he going to be handling all return duties full-time this year?

Your impression is correct.I think they're just trying to get him some exprerience.

 

[Eph]

Mike,Since DD doesn't recognize KR/PR yards, do you have any recommendations on how many spots up to "promote" an Elite KR/PR in a league where we have 0.04pts/yard (25 yards/pt)?What about the other categories?Thanks,Eph

If the yds/pt for return yards matches the yds/pt for passing, receiving, or rushing you can just add the number of return yards you expect for that player in that category. For example, if return yards are rewarded at the same rate as passing yards, Josh Cribbs now will have about 1300 passing yards this year.

Great idea! My return yards are at 25yards/pt and my rush and receive yards are at 10yards/pt. But, if I multiply the projected return yards by 10/25 (0.4), I can add those yards to the players rush yards. I will also add the projected return TDs.So, as an example, Yahoo projects that Leon Washington will get 1534 return yards. Multiply by 10/25 to get 613 "equivalent rush yards". They also project one return TD. If I add these values to the projections in "setup" in DD for Leon, he goes from RB35 to RB19 in my league. Big difference!Question: How do I "lock" these changes in so that DD updates or projection updates don't change his projections? Or, do I need to add these yards/TDs each time I do an update?Thanks!Eph

 

[Eph]

Any suggestions for projections out there that are trustworthy and can act as a baseline for me to tweak? Herman, have you put anything like this out there that I am missing in the subscriber sections?

Yahoo projects return yards for offensive players, but not defensive.So, I could also use projections for Leodis McKelvin, Manning, Rossum, etc.Thanks!

 

[Eph]

What do you guys think about Percy Harvin, now that the Vikings have Favre? Yahoo has him ranked at WR13 in my league, between his 353 rushing yards, 419 receiving yards, 958 return yards and like 6 total TDs.

You hearing anything about him?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

What do you guys think about Percy Harvin, now that the Vikings have Favre? Yahoo has him ranked at WR13 in my league, between his 353 rushing yards, 419 receiving yards, 958 return yards and like 6 total TDs.

You hearing anything about him?

Uh...what now?When did he put up those numbers?

 

[Eph]

What do you guys think about Percy Harvin, now that the Vikings have Favre? Yahoo has him ranked at WR13 in my league, between his 353 rushing yards, 419 receiving yards, 958 return yards and like 6 total TDs.

You hearing anything about him?

Uh...what now?When did he put up those numbers?

Not sure what you're asking. He's a rookie, and I guess Yahoo projects him pretty high. FBG has him at WR40 without the return yards!

 

[Tenacious]

I figure in a PPR with return yards he has WR2 upside, WR3 floor. That's assuming we have a good indication that he'll field a lot of kickoffs this year.

 

[SSOG]

Question: How do I "lock" these changes in so that DD updates or projection updates don't change his projections? Or, do I need to add these yards/TDs each time I do an update?Thanks!Eph

No clue, I've just been fixing the projections every time I update.

Any suggestions for projections out there that are trustworthy and can act as a baseline for me to tweak? Herman, have you put anything like this out there that I am missing in the subscriber sections?

Yahoo projects return yards for offensive players, but not defensive.So, I could also use projections for Leodis McKelvin, Manning, Rossum, etc.Thanks!

Project unquestioned kick returners for 1200 yards and unquestioned punt returners for 250-300 yards. Not very scientific, but pretty accurate. In the end, elite returner performances are incredibly volatile and unpredictable from year-to-year (look at Hester last year- after the best two-year stretch in history, he didn't even crack 200 on punt returns).

 

[PinkydaPimp]

In my league, rbs and wrs that are kick and punt returners get the points for tds as well as the team def. So who are the players that fit into this category that i should keep my eye on?

Devin Hester immediately comes to mind here.

ahmad bradshaw i believe will be returning.

leon washington

Sproles

Hixon

norwood

Who else?

 

[GregR_2]

In my league, rbs and wrs that are kick and punt returners get the points for tds as well as the team def. So who are the players that fit into this category that i should keep my eye on?Devin Hester immediately comes to mind here. ahmad bradshaw i believe will be returning. leon washingtonSprolesHixonnorwoodWho else?

I believe Steve Breaston returns both punts and kickoffs.FBG's has depth charts that have a PR and/or KR next to the players who are returning kicks. When I was looking for IDPs who do this for my league, I just did a case sensitive match and searched through the list to identify everyone.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Josh Cribbs

 

[brett5673]

Likely Percy Harvin as well

 

[SofaCoach]

I'm looking to compile a list of draftable WR's or RB's who are also decent kick or punt returners.

Last year a guy in our league had Reggie Bush and also the Saints defense/special teams. When Bush returned punts for TD's the guy had enormous weeks and won nearly based on that one play alone. (note that our defenses only score based on TD's, not points or yards allowed so Saints weren't bad).

That got me thinking that strategy might not be too bad. Our league gives credit for return yardage so bump those players up accordingly, plus try to get their defense to double up.

My league is 16 teams so we gotta dig pretty deep in the talent pool. Off the top of my head the list of draftable WR's or RB's that also return kicks or punts are:

Reggie Bush

Devin Hester

DeSean Jackson

Eddie Royal

Josh Cribbs

Roscoe Parrish

I must be missing some....

 

[captbly]

Footballguys is real lacking on KR/PR info.

Best I have found so far is here.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...;#entry10650943

 

[wollac]

I just completed some projections for KR/PRs. I'll put my list below. I got my numbers by looking at ESPN's and FBG's depth charts, this forum thread, and projections from Yahoo. Some of the projections I tweaked based on things I've read or believe. I draft in 30 minutes. I'd love to hear back from all of you as to whether any of these projections are way out of whack so I can fix my numbers. Fantasy points are based on my league's (10 yards/pt and 6 pts per TD). Also, I do not get credit for defensive players that are also return guys, so they were dropped from my list:

Rank Name Yards TDs Pts

1 Derek Stanley 1743 1 180.3

2 Aveion Cason 1544 1 160.4

3 Josh Cribbs 1527 1 158.7

4 Leon Washington 1437 1 149.7

5 Mark Jones 1412 1 147.2

6 Clifton Smith 1345 2 146.5

7 Jamaal Charles 1375 1 143.5

8 Darren Sproles 1374 1 143.4

9 Jerious Norwood 1311 1 137.1

10 Ryne Robinson 1250 1 131

11 Rock Cartwright 1210 1 127

12 Andre Davis 1180 1 124

13 Percy Harvin 958 1 101.8

14 Antonio Chatman 977 0 97.7

15 Felix Jones 937 0 93.7

16 Ted Ginn 935 0 93.5

17 Jeremy Maclin 796 1 85.6

18 Ahmad Bradshaw 770 0 77

19 Justin Forsett 730 0 73

20 Davone Bess 668 0 66.8

21 Domenik Hixon 624 0 62.4

22 Andre Caldwell 598 0 59.8

23 Reggie Bush 349 3 52.9

24 Johnnie Lee Higgins 358 1 41.8

25 Steve Breaston 376 0 37.6

26 Jacoby Jones 293 1 35.3

27 Roscoe Parrish 273 1 33.3

28 Patrick Crayton 314 0 31.4

29 Wes Welker 314 0 31.4

30 Yamon Figurs 249 0 24.9

31 Desean Jackson 244 0 24.4