What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

push the tush play - horrible (Philly Fans Cling Desperately to Rugby Play In It's Final Year) (2 Viewers)

trader jake

trader jake

Footballguy
The "push the pile" play is a scourge that must be done away with. It'll lead to many more injuries and fights as defenders grab a QBs leg or take shots at his arms and even head to get at the ball.

It's also anti-strategy. Sure, there are some wrinkles that could be run off the victory style formation and push, but most of the time it'll be the QB getting the snap and then getting pushed for a few yards. That's not the NFL in 2023, that's rugby in 1970.

Get rid of this stupidity. If it's 4th and 1 I want a team going for it to really have to make a decision, not just blindly make a near automatic call. That's video game non-sense. Do away with offensive players being able to push a ball carrier forward before this gets even worse.
 
3 hour lunch said:
I’ve almost posted something similar several times this year. I don’t like it at all.
Click to expand...
I don't blame coaches for using it right now because it's so effective.

It's one horrible play to watch though, and it'll only lead to the exact situations the NFL is actively attempting to avoid. Get rid of that crap before coaches get a full off-season to use it even more.
 
how do you stop it though? ya know what's worse? brock purdy's fumble picked up by the eagles the dud clearly had a TD going if they don't blow the whistle. and the eagles get the ball at the spot it was fumbled instead of at a minimum where he was, running with the ball, at the time they finally blew the whisle.

I'm more pissed about defenses being unable to get off the field on 3rd and 12 or 3rd and 19. just damn tired of it. how the fudge you letting a WR/te get open and get a 17 yard catch on 3rd and 13??????? you can talk all the nonsense you want about defenses nowadays. you weren't getting a first down on 3rd and long vs 86 giants, 90 giants, 90s cowboys, 80s redskins, or buddy ryans eagles, 2000 ravens, Seahawks of yore, 80s niners, etc.
it's ridiculous that a team can get a first down on 3rd and 15 like it was a walk in the park.
I'm also tired of seeing an offense at 3rd and 12 and throwing 7 yard passes. or 3rd and 9 and completing a 6 yard pass. the stupidity level is astounding. on golf there's a rule: never leave a birdie putt short always better to go past the hole than to leave it short. give it a try go for the hole hit it hard enough to get it there.
 
belljr said:
trader jake said:
belljr said:
What year did the start to be allowed?
Click to expand...
Unsure "officially" when it was allowed, but it didn't make a dent in games weekly until this season.
Click to expand...
So the internet machine says in 2005 they removed the ban for pushing but kept the penalty for pulling or "carrying"
Click to expand...
So the owners are fine with changing the rule, or the interpretation of the rule. Good. They need to do it again and get rid of this growing cancer of a play before it gets worse.
 
BassNBrew said:
Agree with you. Something bad is going to happen if this continues.
Click to expand...
Like all of our eyeballs (and brains) being subjected to it for years to come now that it's proving effective.

Let's not let 4th and short become the NFLs equivalent to bowling strategy. "What are you going to do in this frame? Try and knock down dem' pins!!" "What play are you going to call on 4th and short? The QB butt push play!!"
 
It really is ridiculous. So many times that momentum is clearly stopped until the pushing starts.

Seems like at the very least, players who start the play behind the LOS should not be able to push the ball carrier. Pushing a RB pile 10 yards down the field has been a thing for a while. (Probably forever) But pushing a QB sneak is just stupid
 
Throw in the fact I can't stand to listen to the announcers commenting on how awesome this or that qb/rb is because they are in the middle of the pile getting pushed...settle down, they aren't doing anything
 
I like it. It's something that is very effective right now so offenses will use it. I can't recall any significant injuries happening because of it. The defenses will catch up,a coach somewhere will figure out a way to stop it or limit it.
 
I'd be fine to get rid of it, but at the same time, it's also part of the game in the trenches in which one line tries to outwill the opposing line. Happens on every play, but we mainly just see what's happening with the ball.
 
zamboni said:
I'd be fine to get rid of it, but at the same time, it's also part of the game in the trenches in which one line tries to outwill the opposing line. Happens on every play, but we mainly just see what's happening with the ball.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure it was illegal forever and they only changed a few years ago.

IMHO, this all started with the "Bush push" in the USC/ND game. IIRC it was (is still?) illegal in college at that time.


You can say this on every play but somebody is going to get bent in half one of these times and it will be worse than the Hamlin situation. I get that on normal plays people are pushing and all but in these plays you sometimes have upwards of 22 dudes all involved at once. That is A LOT of weight.


ETA - Ill also add that IDK one way or another. Part of me likes it. Part of me thinks its a little overpowered at the moment but as others said, it could change. It is hard to see the ball carrier and it could complicate replays when others said, You've got a mosh pit of 22 dudes, and its a stalemate.
 
Last edited:
zamboni said:
I'd be fine to get rid of it, but at the same time, it's also part of the game in the trenches in which one line tries to outwill the opposing line. Happens on every play, but we mainly just see what's happening with the ball.
Click to expand...

I agree in theory, but its kinda different. Pushing/blocking the defender is one thing, these dudes are pushing a player, essentially using their teammate as a battering ram. It's now common to see 3 guys pushing the ball carrier in the back.
 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
zamboni said:
I'd be fine to get rid of it, but at the same time, it's also part of the game in the trenches in which one line tries to outwill the opposing line. Happens on every play, but we mainly just see what's happening with the ball.
Click to expand...

I agree in theory, but its kinda different. Pushing/blocking the defender is one thing, these dudes are pushing a player, essentially using their teammate as a battering ram. It's now common to see 3 guys pushing the ball carrier in the back.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with that. Seems fine to block, but to push guys from behind probably shouldn't be allowed.
 
TLEF316 said:
It really is ridiculous. So many times that momentum is clearly stopped until the pushing starts.

Seems like at the very least, players who start the play behind the LOS should not be able to push the ball carrier. Pushing a RB pile 10 yards down the field has been a thing for a while. (Probably forever) But pushing a QB sneak is just stupid
Click to expand...
What's unbelievable is that the rules clearly state that you can't come into a pile and push a non-ball carrier. That's a penalty. But it's somehow ok to come in and drill the ball carrier into other people, which oftentimes has the same dangerous effect.
 
babydemon90 said:
How many times has a player been injured in it?
Click to expand...
Unsure. They're coming though.

Mainly because the only real ways to stop the play involve a wedge breaker style running slam into the mass of humanity around the ball or the ability of other defenders to yank the ball carriers legs from the side or behind. Or both at the same time.

Or because nobody on the field really knows when the play is over, so everyone is trying to get their shots in while they can. Not many opportunities to do that in a game, but this play certainly allows for it.
 
Yeah....the issue is going to be at that at some point....teams are gonna start doing some crazy stuff to try and stop it. And the best way to do that is gonna be loading multiple guys up over the center and pushing back.

The reason that you're not allowed to line anyone up over the long snapper on kicks.....because coaches (I believe Belichek pioneered it) starting putting one guy on each shoulder of the LS and then a guy behind each of those guys (so basically 4 giant guys leaning on the long snapper) and just trying to totally collapse the middle of the line to try and block kicks. Eventually the league recognized it as a safety issue and banned it.

Of course, its not quite as straight forward on a non-kicking play (the offense obviously could...ya know.....NOT run right up the middle, making putting 4 guys over the center a total waste) but that's where we're probably headed.

Some will argue that this is already happening on any sort of play where a run up the middle is likely. And I guess that's fair. Just hope that we dont need a quarterback injury (as opposed to some nameless center breaking his leg) in order for this to change.
 
Don’t really care about it as a play. But if it’s an obvious situation just direct snap to your strongest RB, TE, FB etc. while the other guys push him. don’t risk your QB. unless your QB is Josh Allen / Dak. Having a guy like Kyler Murray or Tyler Huntley doing it is dumb.
 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
zamboni said:
I'd be fine to get rid of it, but at the same time, it's also part of the game in the trenches in which one line tries to outwill the opposing line. Happens on every play, but we mainly just see what's happening with the ball.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure it was illegal forever and they only changed a few years ago.

IMHO, this all started with the "Bush push" in the USC/ND game. IIRC it was (is still?) illegal in college at that time.


You can say this on every play but somebody is going to get bent in half one of these times and it will be worse than the Hamlin situation. I get that on normal plays people are pushing and all but in these plays you sometimes have upwards of 22 dudes all involved at once. That is A LOT of weight.


ETA - Ill also add that IDK one way or another. Part of me likes it. Part of me thinks its a little overpowered at the moment but as others said, it could change. It is hard to see the ball carrier and it could complicate replays when others said, You've got a mosh pit of 22 dudes, and its a stalemate.
Click to expand...
I posted earlier the year before the Bush push (which is illegal in college) NFL was not allowed to push, pull or "carry"...... then in 2005 they removed the rule for pushing as a penalty stating that it was not clear enough act to enforce. So only pulling and carrying was a penalty. But obviously the thought on this was for a carrier down field or if a guy is pushing another player that is tackling a player etc.....

It definitely has taken on a new life with the QB sneaks this season
 
babydemon90 said:
trader jake said:
Leroy Hoard said:
Good luck with any rule change that hurts the offense
Click to expand...
That's a very fair point.

They also give a lot of lip service to player safety and this play has major injuries (and other non-sense) written all over it
Click to expand...
How many times has a player been injured in it?
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same - seems very rare. Mahomes hurt his knee on a sneak - no push. The push almost seems safer because the QB is upright.

Also, this same play is used to score TDs, not just 1st downs.

As @Long Ball Larry said - good luck eliminating a consistently successful scoring play.
 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I have no idea if it leads to greater safety risks, but I will bet any amount of money the Competition Committee bans it this offseason
Click to expand...
Doubt it. It’s been around like 17 years and if a marquee player hasn’t been hurt, why would they even look at it?

Only ones complaining about it are (respectfully) a bunch of nerds on a FF forum. If a coach or GM starts making noise, maybe things will change.
 
On Perine's TD this weekend, one of the Bengals (Karras?) actually gets behind the defense, with a defender in a bear hug, and pulls him backwards... So, its not always about pushing.
 
I can tolerate the push-pile more than I can an entire defense holding a RB upright and actually aiding his forward progress so they can try to rip the ball loose.
 
Rustoleum said:
I can tolerate the push-pile more than I can an entire defense holding a RB upright and actually aiding his forward progress so they can try to rip the ball loose.
Click to expand...
That's a big part of why the push play is so problematic, it's almost impossible to know what the play is over. Almost everytime someone is getting hit late (after the refs are running in, presumably because they blew the whistle) or someone is getting thrown to the ground.
 
trader jake said:
Tanner9919 said:
how do you stop it though?
Click to expand...
Make it illegal for an offensive player to push a ball carrier forward.
Click to expand...
This is dumb IMO. Might as well make it illegal for more then one defensive player to hit the ballcarrier at the same time. Too many ball carriers get hurt when tackled by more then one defender.
Make it illegal for anyone to touch a QB's arm once he starts his throwing motion....lot of injuries that way.

I don't remember a single significant injury coming out of the QB push forward scrum. Not one.
 
Rustoleum said:
I can tolerate the push-pile more than I can an entire defense holding a RB upright and actually aiding his forward progress so they can try to rip the ball loose.
Click to expand...
All day this. I was legit angry at the full body swings a SF player was making into the midsection of Eagles ballcarrier. (They did flag it at least)

Bottom line is that we aren't seeing injuries from this play. No player is getting enough momentum going to actually hurt another.
 
Agreed hate this. Hate it even more when it happens downfield and offensive lineman plow into a pile, oftentimes smoking a defender in the back. It's never called.
 
In the Ice Bowl, Bart Starr snuck it in from the 1. In Super Bowl XLIX we watched Malcolm Butler pick off the goal line pass attempt to win the championship.

Today we get the push the pile. 🙄
 
Amused to Death said:
trader jake said:
In the Ice Bowl, Bart Starr snuck it in from the 1. In Super Bowl XLIX we watched Malcolm Butler pick off the goal line pass attempt to win the championship.

Today we get the push the pile. 🙄
Click to expand...
7 points for the Eagles!
Click to expand...
The play was exciting as bowling.

The next play it happened was on a Pacheco run. During all the pushing when nobody knew when the play would be blown dead, Fletcher Cox yanked Pacheco's mouth guard out and threw it down the field.

Horrible rule. Get rid of it.
 
Right after the Eagles tried the push the pile play...again...they false started and then fumbled the next REAL play.

Ball don't lie.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Hip drop tackle: what is it? Should it be a penalty? Will the refs even be able to identify and call it correctly?
2
Replies
97
Views
2K
pinkstapler
P
Ministry of Pain
Did anyone in Redraft pair Justin Fields with Anthony Richardson? What are your current options as you move forward?
Replies
10
Views
363
Tab Jones
T
Yogibear
Predict the final game of the regular season
2 3
Replies
132
Views
3K
Rubi
R

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top