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Q is back! (1 Viewer)

jeter23

Footballguy
Running back Quentin Griffin is expected to sign with Kansas City today. Griffin, formerly a starting tailback with Denver, was cut twice by the Broncos in 2005. The fourth-round pick in 2003 did not finish the 2005 season with a team. He's expected to vie for a backup role in Kansas City behind Larry Johnson.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_3610325

 

ThisGuy

Ignored by Nipsey
Should make a great change of pace and will stay hidden behind that line. Now if can only avoid being injured after every hit.

 

Otis

Footballguy
I tell you what - if LJ ever gets hurt and Priest is gone, this could be absolute fantasy gold. It's a longshot, but for the $$ it's excellent +EV.

 

higgins

Footballguy
I heard he's so tiny that defenses won't be able to see him until he sneaks into the secondary -- that's gold in my book! :thumbup:

 

SSOG

Moderator
Should make a great change of pace and will stay hidden behind that line. Now if can only avoid being injured after every hit.
What? Since when is Griffin an injury waiting to happen? Just because he's small?
The starting RB for KC is gold. Period. He is a must own for any LJ owner...
Don't be so hasty. The starting RB for Denver was gold, period, too... until Quentin Griffin came along.Seriously, I don't understand all of the Griffin-love coming from this thread. He's had two good games in his entire career- one against Indy and one against KC. Both teams were bottom-5 run defenses at the time. Derrick Loville in 1998 and Rod Bernstine in 1995 are the only two (uninjured) RBs to get 20 carries under Shanahan and post a worse ypc than Griffin did in 2003 OR 2004 (and neither of those two luminaries actually managed to accomplish the feat twice). Some perspective might be in order here.

Would you guys be getting so excited if the Chiefs signed Brock Forsey?

 

Otis

Footballguy
Would you guys be getting so excited if the Chiefs signed Brock Forsey?
Absolutely. Whoever runs behind that line will be an awesome fantasy player (maybe not LJ good, but real good).
 

SSOG

Moderator
Would you guys be getting so excited if the Chiefs signed Brock Forsey?
Absolutely. Whoever runs behind that line will be an awesome fantasy player (maybe not LJ good, but real good).
Again, the exact same thing was true in Denver until Quentin Griffin came along.I think the whole "whoever runs behind this line is a stud" theory is very much overrated. I think some teams just tend to have a better eye for evaluating RB talent, and as a result, it looks like EVERYONE is successful back there, when in reality they're just picking up good players and playing them in a good system. Seriously, who has run in KC? Priest Holmes, who is a potential HoFer. Larry Johnson, who was a 1st-round pick. Derrick Blaylock, who... well, we don't really know how good he really is, since he never got more than 4 carries in a game last season for New York.

Even the best of talent evaluators gets it wrong sometime. I am currently of the opinion that Quentin Griffin is what happens when good talent evaluators go wrong.

 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC. Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver. In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD. Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points). In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there? Obviously not. But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.

 
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Portis 26

Madden Freak
I think the whole "whoever runs behind this line is a stud" theory is very much overrated. I think some teams just tend to have a better eye for evaluating RB talent, and as a result, it looks like EVERYONE is successful back there, when in reality they're just picking up good players and playing them in a good system. Seriously, who has run in KC? Priest Holmes, who is a potential HoFer. Larry Johnson, who was a 1st-round pick. Derrick Blaylock, who... well, we don't really know how good he really is, since he never got more than 4 carries in a game last season for New York.
I think I disagree just about as completely as one can. What was Priest before he started running behind the Chiefs offensive line? PRIEST in 2000 for BALTIMORE: 137 carries for 588 yards and 2 TDs.PRIEST in 2003 for KC: 320 carries for 1420 yards and 27 TDs.Similarly, what would Larry Johnson have done last season behind Arizona's line, for example?It boils down to the essence of what makes good football and what makes teams successful, and it all starts with the blocking. That's what it's all about and always will be.Now, that's not to say that Priest or LJ aren't great backs. They are. It's just that it's a heck of a lot easier to gain yards if you're a RB if you have great blocking in front of you. It's that simple.
 

Sopranos

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC.  Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver.  In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD.  Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points).  In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there?  Obviously not.  But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
:goodposting:
 
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P Boy

Footballguy
I'd wait to see what happens in tne draft before I start burning a roster spot on Griffin. That he is the only RB who was handed the starting RB spot in DEN under Shanahan & failed miserably says an awful lot about his ability - or lack thereof - IMO.

 
The starting RB for KC is gold. Period. He is a must own for any LJ owner...
My side is hurting, quit, I can't take it. :lmao: How many different ways can Griffin demonstrate that he's not an NFL RB. Maybe an occasional 3rd down play, but he's a bust. That's two busts for Shanahan if you count Clarett.Edited to say he will probably be cut before the season starts. Dee Brown will still be the backup to LJ in 2006.

 
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Gopher State

Footballguy
I heard he's the next Barry Sanders.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

--------------------

On the contrary, I highly respect other's opinions and enjoy hearing them. - Pony Boy

 

SSOG

Moderator
I think I disagree just about as completely as one can. What was Priest before he started running behind the Chiefs offensive line?

PRIEST in 2000 for BALTIMORE: 137 carries for 588 yards and 2 TDs.

PRIEST in 2003 for KC: 320 carries for 1420 yards and 27 TDs.
Holy selective statistics, Batman!How about this?

PRIEST in 1998 for BALTIMORE: 233 carries for 1008 yards and 7 TDs.

PRIEST in 2005 for KC: 119 carries for 451 yards and 6 TDs.

See what happens when you cherry-pick your statistics?

Shenanigans aside, you made a very good point when you brought up Priest Holmes. He was an RB who played behind two distinctly different O-lines. Let's compare his numbers between the two systems, shall we? Priest Holmes averaged 4.58 yards per carry in Baltimore. Priest Holmes averaged 4.65 yards per carry in Kansas City. So in other words, the highly touted KC Offensive Line was worth a grand total of .07 yards per carry.

.07 yards per carry!!!

What was Priest before he started running behind the Chief's O-line? Every bit as good as he was AFTER he started running behind the Chief's O-line (and, might I add, severely underutilized). Want to argue some more?

 

Londo

Footballguy
Mike Cloud looked pretty pathetic behind that KC line when he was the backup. Blaylock and LJ both looked incredible as backups. Griffin will probably be somewhere in between. If Holmes retires, I will certainly grab Griffin (and I will be keeping an eye on Dee Brown).

The point is that Griffin may not be a great back, even behind the KC line, but he still has value, just like every other KC backup for the last 5 years has had value...

 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Over the past 3 seasons, here are the PPG numbers for games in which a RB had 10 or more carries:

Larry Johnson 24.34

Priest Holmes 21.86

LaDainian Tomlinson 20.53

Derrick Blaylock 20.36

Shaun Alexander 19.57

Edgerrin James 17.37

Samkon Gado 17.08

Clinton Portis 17.06

Ahman Green 16.97

Tiki Barber 16.53

Three of the top four came from the Chiefs. The trio of LJ/Priest/Blaylock averaged 22.52 fantasy points (standard scoring).

Let's say Griffin is but half the talent of these other backs and would fare only half as well. I think he's better than that, but let's say he's in the 50% range for productivity. That would drop him down to 11.26 PPG (again at a 50% markdown compared to the others). By the way, Griffin in Denver averaged 12.17 ppg in games with at least 10 carries, so we are hypothesizing that he would do WORSE in Kansas City.

By comparison, guys in that range (remember, games with 10 or more carries):

DeShaun Foster 12.09

Willie Parker 12.02

Kevin Jones 11.72

Cadillac Williams 11.60

IMO, those thinking that Griffin has minimal value should he ever get a chance are absolutely fooling themselves (or are just trying to blow smoke to grab him in their drafts).

 

Liquid Tension

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC. Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver. In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD. Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points). In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there? Obviously not. But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
I think this should say a WAY below average RB in an excellent system. No chance he is average if you ranked the top 32 RB's he would not be close to 16
 

Liquid Tension

Footballguy
:goodposting:

I think I disagree just about as completely as one can. What was Priest before he started running behind the Chiefs offensive line?

PRIEST in 2000 for BALTIMORE: 137 carries for 588 yards and 2 TDs.

PRIEST in 2003 for KC: 320 carries for 1420 yards and 27 TDs.
Holy selective statistics, Batman!How about this?

PRIEST in 1998 for BALTIMORE: 233 carries for 1008 yards and 7 TDs.

PRIEST in 2005 for KC: 119 carries for 451 yards and 6 TDs.

See what happens when you cherry-pick your statistics?

Shenanigans aside, you made a very good point when you brought up Priest Holmes. He was an RB who played behind two distinctly different O-lines. Let's compare his numbers between the two systems, shall we? Priest Holmes averaged 4.58 yards per carry in Baltimore. Priest Holmes averaged 4.65 yards per carry in Kansas City. So in other words, the highly touted KC Offensive Line was worth a grand total of .07 yards per carry.

.07 yards per carry!!!

What was Priest before he started running behind the Chief's O-line? Every bit as good as he was AFTER he started running behind the Chief's O-line (and, might I add, severely underutilized). Want to argue some more?
:goodposting: Not too contradict what I think is a good post, but it is clear that a better OL will help a "the same" runner out; I don't think that can be argued. The reason the numbers may come closer to the average can have many variables to them. For example, if Priest is used as a short yardage back his YPC get lowered. In Baltimore he may not have had goal line carries which can hurt your average. Further, we have seen that back up RB's that are fresh and rested and don't get the same attention as starters put up high YPC; look at guys behind LT for example. You can't argue they are better than LT and they were behind the same exact line.
 

Q-Bert

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC.  Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver.  In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD.  Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points).  In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there?  Obviously not.  But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
I think this should say a WAY below average RB in an excellent system. No chance he is average if you ranked the top 32 RB's he would not be close to 16
However, there are alot more than 32 running backs in the league. The 16th ranked running back is not an average running back. He is an elite talent. There are at least 100 running backs in the NFL. I would say that average is somewhere from the number 40 to the number 70th ranked player. Is Q in that range? I've never actually seen him play so I don't have an opinion. But I don't think it is unreasonable to call him average.
 

Bri

Footballguy
Mike Cloud looked pretty pathetic behind that KC line when he was the backup. Blaylock and LJ both looked incredible as backups. Griffin will probably be somewhere in between. If Holmes retires, I will certainly grab Griffin (and I will be keeping an eye on Dee Brown).

The point is that Griffin may not be a great back, even behind the KC line, but he still has value, just like every other KC backup for the last 5 years has had value...
What I don't get is why is this guy going to pan out this time in KC? Will he be able to pickup their O now? I know it's hard for guys that owned him in FF to "swallow" but this is NOT the first time.(Two backs almost identical names in NFLE last year, scuze)

Jonathan or John Smith(I think he went with McKenzie Smith after a while) stuck last year. He's raw and IIRC was on their practice squad all year.

And Brown was called back, not Q when they needed a back.

I don't get why you guys are all over Q, yet not Dee Brown or McKenzie?

 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC.  Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver.  In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD.  Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points).  In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there?  Obviously not.  But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
I think this should say a WAY below average RB in an excellent system. No chance he is average if you ranked the top 32 RB's he would not be close to 16
As I already mentioned . . .In games with 10 or more carries, Griffin clocked in at 12.17 on a ppg basis in Denver.

I projected him as half as good as Homes/Johnson/Blaylock in KC so 11.26 ppg.

I highly doubt he would do worse in KC than he did in Denver.

If we projected him at only 1 fantasy ppg better in KC than in Denver (should he ever get a significant workload), that would get him to 13.17 ppg (which is still almost 10 ppg LESS than the other KC RB).

Over the past 3 seasons in games with 10 or more carries, RB that have averaged in the 13 ppg range include:

Willis McGahee 13.85

Lamont Jordan 13.84

Fred Taylor 13.66

Ricky Williams 13.42

Reuben Droughns 13.26

Steven Jackson 13.17

Curtis Martin 13.06

Thomas Jones 13.06

Warrick Dunn 12.98

No matter how you slice it, whoever is running the ball in KC will be fantasy gold, whether it be Holmes, Griffin, Dee Brown, or any guy they draft or bring in.

 

Londo

Footballguy
Mike Cloud looked pretty pathetic behind that KC line when he was the backup.  Blaylock and LJ both looked incredible as backups.  Griffin will probably be somewhere in between.  If Holmes retires, I will certainly grab Griffin (and I will be keeping an eye on Dee Brown).

The point is that Griffin may not be a great back, even behind the KC line, but he still has value, just like every other KC backup for the last 5 years has had value...
What I don't get is why is this guy going to pan out this time in KC? Will he be able to pickup their O now? I know it's hard for guys that owned him in FF to "swallow" but this is NOT the first time.(Two backs almost identical names in NFLE last year, scuze)

Jonathan or John Smith(I think he went with McKenzie Smith after a while) stuck last year. He's raw and IIRC was on their practice squad all year.

And Brown was called back, not Q when they needed a back.

I don't get why you guys are all over Q, yet not Dee Brown or McKenzie?
He may or may not pan out. But the reason I like him better than dee brown (whom I mentioned I will also be keeping an eye on) or anyone else on their roster is that he has NFL starting experience. For the last few years, the KC backup has been a 'must-handcuff' and if Griffin is that backup then he has value.
 

Liquid Tension

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC.  Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver.  In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD.  Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points).  In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there?  Obviously not.  But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
I think this should say a WAY below average RB in an excellent system. No chance he is average if you ranked the top 32 RB's he would not be close to 16
However, there are alot more than 32 running backs in the league. The 16th ranked running back is not an average running back. He is an elite talent. There are at least 100 running backs in the NFL. I would say that average is somewhere from the number 40 to the number 70th ranked player. Is Q in that range? I've never actually seen him play so I don't have an opinion. But I don't think it is unreasonable to call him average.
Hmm, not sure how to take this. I guess if you are saying average backs don't start then yeah. Regardless, I guess I was looking at starters. If you want to include backups, he may be an average backup, but that may be generous as well when you consider the backups. As I go down the list I would say he is in the lower end of backups as well. I mean who would you rather have Q or M. Bennett (rhetorical)? There are some pretty solid backups that would fit right in KC as a decent FFL option
 

Q-Bert

Footballguy
I happen to think that Griffin would still be a decent fantasy option if he ever had to start in KC.  Maybe not Priest or LJ numbers, but still fantasy starter worthy.

He basically had 7 games as the primary ball handler in Denver.  In those games, he accumulated 560 rushing yards, 112 receiving yards, and 3 TD.  Although anything could have happened beyond that, that projects to 1280 rushing yards, 256 receiving yards, and 7 TD (195 fantasy points).  In any given year, that's still RB1 numbers in a 12-team league.

Sure, he had 2 big games out of 7, but in a small sample size you can say that about a lot of backs.

Is he the best back out there?  Obviously not.  But he is an average back in a good system, and that is normally enough to be productive if given the chance.
I think this should say a WAY below average RB in an excellent system. No chance he is average if you ranked the top 32 RB's he would not be close to 16
However, there are alot more than 32 running backs in the league. The 16th ranked running back is not an average running back. He is an elite talent. There are at least 100 running backs in the NFL. I would say that average is somewhere from the number 40 to the number 70th ranked player. Is Q in that range? I've never actually seen him play so I don't have an opinion. But I don't think it is unreasonable to call him average.
Hmm, not sure how to take this. I guess if you are saying average backs don't start then yeah. Regardless, I guess I was looking at starters. If you want to include backups, he may be an average backup, but that may be generous as well when you consider the backups. As I go down the list I would say he is in the lower end of backups as well. I mean who would you rather have Q or M. Bennett (rhetorical)? There are some pretty solid backups that would fit right in KC as a decent FFL option
My point is that he is obviously not a top tier running back talent but that it is certainly reasonable to say that he is average. I guess what I am trying to drive home is that his talent is probably comparable to Derrick Blaylock and we all saw what Blaylock was capable of in the KC offense.Look, no one is saying that Q would be the top back in the league if KC would only give him the chance he deserves and start him ahead of that Larry Johnson guy. But, if he is named the backup and if LJ were to get hurt, then Q would probably be worth starting in most leagues. Especially if you are the LJ owner.

 

Otis

Footballguy
Over the past 3 seasons, here are the PPG numbers for games in which a RB had 10 or more carries:

Larry Johnson 24.34

Priest Holmes 21.86

LaDainian Tomlinson 20.53

Derrick Blaylock 20.36

Shaun Alexander 19.57

Edgerrin James 17.37

Samkon Gado 17.08

Clinton Portis 17.06

Ahman Green 16.97

Tiki Barber 16.53

Three of the top four came from the Chiefs. The trio of LJ/Priest/Blaylock averaged 22.52 fantasy points (standard scoring).

Let's say Griffin is but half the talent of these other backs and would fare only half as well. I think he's better than that, but let's say he's in the 50% range for productivity. That would drop him down to 11.26 PPG (again at a 50% markdown compared to the others). By the way, Griffin in Denver averaged 12.17 ppg in games with at least 10 carries, so we are hypothesizing that he would do WORSE in Kansas City.

By comparison, guys in that range (remember, games with 10 or more carries):

DeShaun Foster 12.09

Willie Parker 12.02

Kevin Jones 11.72

Cadillac Williams 11.60

IMO, those thinking that Griffin has minimal value should he ever get a chance are absolutely fooling themselves (or are just trying to blow smoke to grab him in their drafts).
Agree completely.
 

P Boy

Footballguy
LOL. Can we please get serious? I know it's the offseason and all, but geez, guys!

Griffin has 2 problems: He sucks & he can only run up big numbers against IND & KC. Against everyone else in the league he averages 2.88 ypc. And now KC is out of the picture since he's on their team - but he ought to look like hell on wheels in every practice!

DEN was a better rushing team than KC in both of the seasons that Griffin played for DEN, and Griffin washed out with miserable numbers because of a complete lack of talent & ability as well as being a smurf who gets tackled by a stiff breeze. Now he goes to KC and suddenly he supposed to be have even a smidgeon of value just because of where he's playing?

Geez, even Olandis Freakin' Gary could put up numbers in DEN, and look how he did in different settings afterwards. Griffin can't even carry Gary's jockstrap.

C'mon. Seriously, what are y'all smoking?

 
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Sopranos

Footballguy
Over the past 3 seasons, here are the PPG numbers for games in which a RB had 10 or more carries:

Larry Johnson 24.34

Priest Holmes 21.86

LaDainian Tomlinson 20.53

Derrick Blaylock 20.36

Shaun Alexander 19.57

Edgerrin James 17.37

Samkon Gado 17.08

Clinton Portis 17.06

Ahman Green 16.97

Tiki Barber 16.53

Three of the top four came from the Chiefs.  The trio of LJ/Priest/Blaylock averaged 22.52 fantasy points (standard scoring).

Let's say Griffin is but half the talent of these other backs and would fare only half as well.  I think he's better than that, but let's say he's in the 50% range for productivity.  That would drop him down to 11.26 PPG (again at a 50% markdown compared to the others).  By the way, Griffin in Denver averaged 12.17 ppg in games with at least 10 carries, so we are hypothesizing that he would do WORSE in Kansas City.

By comparison, guys in that range (remember, games with 10 or more carries):

DeShaun Foster 12.09

Willie Parker 12.02

Kevin Jones 11.72

Cadillac Williams 11.60

IMO, those thinking that Griffin has minimal value should he ever get a chance are absolutely fooling themselves (or are just trying to blow smoke to grab him in their drafts).
Agree completely.
:goodposting: I also agree. And IMO he will have a fantasy impact. Maybe only one game but it only takes one more win sometimes to get to the playoffs. In deep dynastys he value jumped up. :boxing:
 

Portis 26

Madden Freak
What was Priest before he started running behind the Chief's O-line? Every bit as good as he was AFTER he started running behind the Chief's O-line (and, might I add, severely underutilized). Want to argue some more?
Of course I want to argue some more, because you're wrong. :boxing: You're confusing how "good" a RB is with the numbers he will put up in a specific offense, which is what I was talking about. Priest was the same player in Baltimore and KC - he even had a similar YPC as you rightly point out - it's just that in KC when he was the feature back he had an historic run of seasons with a huge number of TOUCHDOWNS, making him the most valuable player in fantasy.Do you honestly think Priest would have been getting 20+ TDs in those seasons if he had been in Baltimore?
 

P Boy

Footballguy
Of course I want to argue some more, because you're wrong. :boxing: You're confusing how "good" a RB is with the numbers he will put up in a specific offense, which is what I was talking about. Priest was the same player in Baltimore and KC - he even had a similar YPC as you rightly point out - it's just that in KC when he was the feature back he had an historic run of seasons with a huge number of TOUCHDOWNS, making him the most valuable player in fantasy.Do you honestly think Priest would have been getting 20+ TDs in those seasons if he had been in Baltimore?
With that D giving him a short field all of the time? Are you kidding? You do know that J Lewis put up a 2000+ yd rushing year, don't you? What do you think Holmes would have done? Add Holmes' nose for the end zone with all those yds & you're talking about a FF year that hasn't been done before.
 

Portis 26

Madden Freak
With that D giving him a short field all of the time? Are you kidding? You do know that J Lewis put up a 2000+ yd rushing year, don't you? What do you think Holmes would have done? Add Holmes' nose for the end zone with all those yds & you're talking about a FF year that hasn't been done before.
No, because you have to look at the nature of the different offenses in KC and Baltimore at that time. Billick was running a simple grind it out offense with a very primitive passing attack that scored relatively few TDs and did not result in its RB getting many goal-line opportunities, while KC were running a highly sophisticated wide open attack installed by Al Saunders that resulted in its RB getting an enormous number of goal-line opportunities that resulted in historic record-setting TD stats.You also have to lookat the fact that KC were involved in many wide-open shoot-outs as a result of their poor D with multiple opportunities for scoring while Baltimore were involved in a lot of low-scoring affairs as a result of their excellent D. Ultimately, the KC offense has been fantasy gold, and in this case it really is about the system. The system in this case is the Al Saunders-Mike Martz version of Dan Coryell's old offense, the old San Diego offense, which the Los Angeles Rams also later ran in the 80s...
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
DEN was a better rushing team than KC in both of the seasons that Griffin played for DEN.
From a RB fantasy perspective . . .KC 2003-04: 5511 total yards, 66 total TDDen 2003-04: 5378 total yards, 38 total TDKC DESTROYED the Broncos backs in touchdowns scored.
 

Sopranos

Footballguy
DEN was a better rushing team than KC in both of the seasons that Griffin played for DEN.
From a RB fantasy perspective . . .KC 2003-04: 5511 total yards, 66 total TD

Den 2003-04: 5378 total yards, 38 total TD

KC DESTROYED the Broncos backs in touchdowns scored.
KO punch there :boxing:
 

Sopranos

Footballguy
Of course I want to argue some more, because you're wrong.  :boxing: You're confusing how "good" a RB is with the numbers he will put up in a specific offense, which is what I was talking about. Priest was the same player in Baltimore and KC - he even had a similar YPC as you rightly point out - it's just that in KC when he was the feature back he had an historic run of seasons with a huge number of TOUCHDOWNS, making him the most valuable player in fantasy.Do you honestly think Priest would have been getting 20+ TDs in those seasons if he had been in Baltimore?
With that D giving him a short field all of the time? Are you kidding? You do know that J Lewis put up a 2000+ yd rushing year, don't you? What do you think Holmes would have done? Add Holmes' nose for the end zone with all those yds & you're talking about a FF year that hasn't been done before.
Portis is right here. Lewis will NEVER score 25+ tds in that offense. He only had 14 in the 2000yard season. Fact is IF you run the ball in KC you score alot. Priest,LJ and Blaylock have all proved it in the last 600 days. Its a fact :P
 
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SSOG

Moderator
LOL. Can we please get serious? I know it's the offseason and all, but geez, guys!

Griffin has 2 problems: He sucks & he can only run up big numbers against IND & KC. Against everyone else in the league he averages 2.88 ypc. And now KC is out of the picture since he's on their team - but he ought to look like hell on wheels in every practice!

DEN was a better rushing team than KC in both of the seasons that Griffin played for DEN, and Griffin washed out with miserable numbers because of a complete lack of talent & ability as well as being a smurf who gets tackled by a stiff breeze. Now he goes to KC and suddenly he supposed to be have even a smidgeon of value just because of where he's playing?

Geez, even Olandis Freakin' Gary could put up numbers in DEN, and look how he did in different settings afterwards. Griffin can't even carry Gary's jockstrap.

C'mon. Seriously, what are y'all smoking?
This is one of the very rare times when Pony and I are in absolute agreement.I'm not saying that Griffin would have no value if he happened to get the starting job in KC. I'm saying that, first of all, he'd have less value than everyone expects (both because Griffin sucks and because Vermeil is gone), and second of all... I fully expect him to get cut or buried on the depth chart. He's just not that good. I like him, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
DEN was a better rushing team than KC in both of the seasons that Griffin played for DEN.
From a RB fantasy perspective . . .KC 2003-04: 5511 total yards, 66 total TD

Den 2003-04: 5378 total yards, 38 total TD

KC DESTROYED the Broncos backs in touchdowns scored.
KO punch there :boxing:
Yeah, whatever.The real NFL stats rather than the FF stats show DEN as the #4 rushing team in 2004 with 2333 yds rushing and the #2 rushing team in 2003 with 2629 yds rushing; while during the same time period KC was the 5th best rushing team in the NFL in 2004 with 2289 yds rushing and the 15th best rushing team in 2003 with 1929 yds rushing.

DEN doesn't use its RBs much in the passing game, while KC does, which accounts for a bunch of FF pts that have nothing to do with rushing.

 

P Boy

Footballguy
You know people are bored when you have 41 posts about Quentin "f-ing" Griffin.
:lmao: You know it's offseason when people actually think Griffin has value. During the season he demonstrates quite plainly on his own exactly how much value he has. (Not that I'm not guilty of the same kind of crap during the offseason **cough** David Terrell **cough**) ;)

 
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