QB 6 Pt TDs-When to target your QB... (1 Viewer)

[Eviloutsider]

So most standard leagues have 4 Pts per TD for QBs but what about those leagues that reward TDs with 6 points. When would you start looking at QBs in those leagues?

 

[LawFitz]

Peyton, Rodgers, Brees - rd 1-2

All others - rd 5+

Lots of (probably most) others on this board will disagree.

 

[Ilov80s]

So most standard leagues have 4 Pts per TD for QBs but what about those leagues that reward TDs with 6 points. When would you start looking at QBs in those leagues?

Same as a 4pt league. I prefer to wait until at least round 7 or 8. It favors passing QBs over rushing QBs, but that is the only difference IMO.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

 

[dickey moe]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

Compared to the guy who tosses 20 TDs, it's 20 points. It's worth a marginal uptick in overall ADP, but not one worth getting all hot and bothered about.

 

[Dacomish]

It does depend on your scoring, in our PPR league we have 6 point TD's and the top 3-4 QBs outdistance every other position by a decent margin. Last 2 years the top 10 scorers 2012 - 8QB, 1RB, 1WR and 2013 7QB, 3 RB. Neither year did a position other than QB eclipse 400 points and we had 5 QB's do it in those 2 years. Again it depends on your scoring system, but 6 point passing TD leagues as big as mine (16 teams) it was a no-brainer to take a top 3-4 QB in the first few picks of the draft.

 

[Eviloutsider]

It does depend on your scoring, in our PPR league we have 6 point TD's and the top 3-4 QBs outdistance every other position by a decent margin. Last 2 years the top 10 scorers 2012 - 8QB, 1RB, 1WR and 2013 7QB, 3 RB. Neither year did a position other than QB eclipse 400 points and we had 5 QB's do it in those 2 years. Again it depends on your scoring system, but 6 point passing TD leagues as big as mine (16 teams) it was a no-brainer to take a top 3-4 QB in the first few picks of the draft.

I would agree with the sentiment that it depends on other facets of your scoring as well. I play in a .5PR plus .5 per completion league. The QBs score the most points by far (top 13 spots) with Peyton crushing Charles in scoring 567 to 292. I guess I need to consider what a first round QB/3rd round RB would score vs. a first round RB/3rd Round QB (or wherever that QB might get drafted, not necessarily in the third).

It comes down to who would score more points Manning/CJ Spiller against Lacy/Stafford.

 

[Phenomena]

I recently drafted a league $250 league where it was 6 TD and 3 point bonuses for 300-yard games ... Five QBs went in rounds 1-2, I took Matt Ryan early 5th, then no other QBs were taken until the 8th+. It's really hard to know when the runs are going to occur. If I had known I could get the next tier in the 8th then I would have waited on Ryan.

My advice is to look at VBD to see if the QB you like is in the ballpark and then pull the trigger. Take who you like, just make sure you're not screwing yourself mathematically losing more than 1 round to get him.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Unless you are confident you can pick one of the top 3 QBs, just wait for a later round to select QB.

 

[Ilov80s]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

Compared to the guy who tosses 20 TDs, it's 20 points. It's worth a marginal uptick in overall ADP, but not one worth getting all hot and bothered about.

Right, every QB has their TD passes go up at the same rate. Just as Manning scores more, Romo scores more at the same rate.

 

[Eviloutsider]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

Compared to the guy who tosses 20 TDs, it's 20 points. It's worth a marginal uptick in overall ADP, but not one worth getting all hot and bothered about.

Right, every QB has their TD passes go up at the same rate. Just as Manning scores more, Romo scores more at the same rate.

Brees gets a bump of 20 points (for his 10 Tds more he throws than the average QB). That's not a huge advantage but it's something to consider.

 

[Ilov80s]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

Compared to the guy who tosses 20 TDs, it's 20 points. It's worth a marginal uptick in overall ADP, but not one worth getting all hot and bothered about.

Right, every QB has their TD passes go up at the same rate. Just as Manning scores more, Romo scores more at the same rate.

Brees gets a bump of 20 points (for his 10 Tds more he throws than the average QB). That's not a huge advantage but it's something to consider.

Yes, just a small bump. Unless you can predict a 45-50 TD season, I'm not sure it should impact your drafting too much.

 

[Insein]

Since it just affects the QBs uniformly, it shouldn't affect the rankings too much. Adding a 2nd starting QB though, then you switch up the draft entirely.

 

[UKColt]

I don't really let it change my draft strategy.

Yes, owning one of the elite QBs who has 40TD upside becomes marginally more valuable but I'm never going to draft one of them at their ADP anyway. Just wait and grab a couple of guys you like in the later rounds and take advantage of the RBs/WRs you'll be able to get while everyone is scrambling to get Aaron Rodgers in the 1st.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

But doesn't it make the elite guys that much more valuable?

Someone upthread said, "unless you can predict which guys are going to have 45 - 50 TDs". Perhaps you can't do that necessarily, but I think that you can set your watch to Rogers, Peyton and Brees being elite passing TDs guys as compared to most of the rest of the league presuming health.

I know that a "rising tide lifts all boats", but I think that the scoring change makes me more likely to invest in the top 3 in the first two rounds, whereas with 4 point TDs, considering their ADP, I wouldn't bother with any of them.

 

[Insein]

But doesn't it make the elite guys that much more valuable?

Someone upthread said, "unless you can predict which guys are going to have 45 - 50 TDs". Perhaps you can't do that necessarily, but I think that you can set your watch to Rogers, Peyton and Brees being elite passing TDs guys as compared to most of the rest of the league presuming health.

I know that a "rising tide lifts all boats", but I think that the scoring change makes me more likely to invest in the top 3 in the first two rounds, whereas with 4 point TDs, considering their ADP, I wouldn't bother with any of them.

For those that are drafting Manning, Brees and Rodgers, that might push them from late first and early second to all first. That's about it.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

But doesn't it make the elite guys that much more valuable?

Someone upthread said, "unless you can predict which guys are going to have 45 - 50 TDs". Perhaps you can't do that necessarily, but I think that you can set your watch to Rogers, Peyton and Brees being elite passing TDs guys as compared to most of the rest of the league presuming health.

I know that a "rising tide lifts all boats", but I think that the scoring change makes me more likely to invest in the top 3 in the first two rounds, whereas with 4 point TDs, considering their ADP, I wouldn't bother with any of them.

For those that are drafting Manning, Brees and Rodgers, that might push them from late first and early second to all first. That's about it.

Think i agree, in part because predicting where the remainder of the QB group finishes relative to each other seems like mostly guesswork.

 

[MattFancy]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

That's a bit deceptive though, isn't it? I was in a league where all TDs were the same point value (extra points for longer TDs) and Dalton was indeed 3rd. That said, the gap between Brees and Dalton ( 2 and 3) was as large as the gap between Dalton and Geno Smith (3 and 20). Dalton was keeping you competitive, but he wasn't winning you weeks, as compared to Brees who was.

 

[MattFancy]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

That's a bit deceptive though, isn't it? I was in a league where all TDs were the same point value (extra points for longer TDs) and Dalton was indeed 3rd. That said, the gap between Brees and Dalton ( 2 and 3) was as large as the gap between Dalton and Geno Smith (3 and 20). Dalton was keeping you competitive, but he wasn't winning you weeks, as compared to Brees who was.

But to me, QBs are becoming more devalued. Sure Brees had a big gap over Dalton, but then after Brees QB3-QB15 in my league were seperated by 4ppg. Why grab a QB early when I can get a top RB/WR early and still get a top 5 QB in the 5th/6th? Just because TDs are 6 pts for QBs doesn't automatically mean they need to be drafted early.

 

[Ilov80s]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

That's a bit deceptive though, isn't it? I was in a league where all TDs were the same point value (extra points for longer TDs) and Dalton was indeed 3rd. That said, the gap between Brees and Dalton ( 2 and 3) was as large as the gap between Dalton and Geno Smith (3 and 20). Dalton was keeping you competitive, but he wasn't winning you weeks, as compared to Brees who was.

It is also silly because you can frame all kinds of hindsight arguments. Using that kind of hindsight, any pick at any spot can be justified. I could say, why not take Manning in the first? You could have just got Moreno late in the draft and he was RB5. You could have built a championship team out of late round picks and WW scraps: Dalton, Moreno, Stacy, Gordon, JT, Keenan Allen, Fred Jackson.

 

[MattFancy]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

That's a bit deceptive though, isn't it? I was in a league where all TDs were the same point value (extra points for longer TDs) and Dalton was indeed 3rd. That said, the gap between Brees and Dalton ( 2 and 3) was as large as the gap between Dalton and Geno Smith (3 and 20). Dalton was keeping you competitive, but he wasn't winning you weeks, as compared to Brees who was.

It is also silly because you can frame all kinds of hindsight arguments. Using that kind of hindsight, any pick at any spot can be justified. I could say, why not take Manning in the first? You could have just got Moreno late in the draft and he was RB5. You could have built a championship team out of late round picks and WW scraps: Dalton, Moreno, Stacy, Gordon, JT, Keenan Allen, Fred Jackson.

And that's what makes this great because there really is no right or wrong answer on how to draft a team. For me personally, I'll wait on QBs unless I can't pass up Manning/Brees/Rodgers. After those 3, there isn't much of a difference between say QB4 (Stafford) and QB12 (Romo) in drafts this year.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

2 of the 3 leagues I play in are 6pt TD leagues for QBs. Has zero effect on my draft strategy. Sure, QBs score more points, but IMO, that makes getting a top RB or WR more important because all the QBs point totals will increase.

Last year, Jamaal Charles was the highest scoring RB in my leagues. The QB3? Andy Dalton. I could've had Charles and Dalton and had 2 top 5 scoring players.

That's a bit deceptive though, isn't it? I was in a league where all TDs were the same point value (extra points for longer TDs) and Dalton was indeed 3rd. That said, the gap between Brees and Dalton ( 2 and 3) was as large as the gap between Dalton and Geno Smith (3 and 20). Dalton was keeping you competitive, but he wasn't winning you weeks, as compared to Brees who was.

It is also silly because you can frame all kinds of hindsight arguments. Using that kind of hindsight, any pick at any spot can be justified. I could say, why not take Manning in the first? You could have just got Moreno late in the draft and he was RB5. You could have built a championship team out of late round picks and WW scraps: Dalton, Moreno, Stacy, Gordon, JT, Keenan Allen, Fred Jackson.

But isn't the point a high level of confidence that Peyton, Brees and Rodgers will be elite as compared to the rest of the position? At 4pt/TD it is much less significant than at 6. That isn't really hindsight at all. While Rodgers was back in the pack, he would have been in the top 3 comfortably if healthy

 

[FUBAR]

Lineups and size of league matter a whole lot more than 6 vs. 4 pts per TD.

32 team league? I'm drafting a QB early.

QRRWWWTFF (and not superflex)? I'm waiting until my #10 or so QB is the best one left.

Most leagues fall somewhere in between.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Just slightly earlier.

 

[bagger]

So most standard leagues have 4 Pts per TD for QBs but what about those leagues that reward TDs with 6 points. When would you start looking at QBs in those leagues?

Same as a 4pt league. I prefer to wait until at least round 7 or 8. It favors passing QBs over rushing QBs, but that is the only difference IMO.

this.I won't be drafting a QB in my 6 pt QB league until rounds 9/10 (will go back to back) with two of Dalton, cutler, Roethlesberger.

Two QBs will likely be before my 1.08 pick meaning I will get crazy value for someone in the first round.

 

[Run It Up]

Ive reliably been able to get a committee of Newton, Rivers, Romo, Cutler, Dalton, Roethlisberger in rounds 9+ in 10 team, and 8+ in 12 team.

Personally been targetting Newton and Rivers.

 

[Ojaays]

So if it's 6pts per TD, and you can get Manning or Brees who would both project to be the two TOP fantasy point scorers in the league , period, you would pass on them?

Both Manning and Bree's are projected to throw 40.

At 6 pts per, I'm not passing on that in rnd 1 for a RB who is likely to get hurt and miss games.

 

[LawFitz]

So if it's 6pts per TD, and you can get Manning or Brees who would both project to be the two TOP fantasy point scorers in the league , period, you would pass on them?

Both Manning and Bree's are projected to throw 40.

At 6 pts per, I'm not passing on that in rnd 1 for a RB who is likely to get hurt and miss games.

This is the bingo part that is often lost on those focusing exclusively on VBD with regards to this question.

 

[belljr]

Now add bonuses for length of TD :mindblown:

 

[LittlePhatty]

Depends more on league history and how the owners draft. But I'd still pass on the top 3 and wait. QB is deep this year. Guys like Big Ben or Cutler could keep your team in contention for cheap.

 

[Ojaays]

Now add bonuses for length of TD :mindblown:

Excellent point.

Who is more likely to get More and longer TD bonuses for length, QB or RB?

Manning and Brees are 1.01 and 1.02 in my cheat sheet.

 

[LawFitz]

Manning and Brees are 1.01 and 1.02 in my cheat sheet.

Compare schedules; then + Cooks, - Decker and + Ball and you might switch the two. I did.

:mind blown:

 

[hotboyz]

If you drafting at 1.1 and you take a Qb what will be the drop off at the other positions you have to draft. So while Bees may be the #1 Qb in the 2nd you may be looking at the 12th best Qb or #6 Wr.

You gotta determine which combo is more beneficial. Last yr I drafted Stafford in the 6th rd and Charles in the first. I'd rather have Charles and Stafford than Brees and Bush

 

[mbrennan5]

I just posted a very similar question, but included my scoring totals from last year: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=710377

My league is 6/TD, but also has many different bonuses for all positions. I'm leaning towards an early QB for a couple reasons:

1 - the consistency year-to-year of the top QB's

2 - I feel the advantage in my leaue is more than most for QB's, but that's what I'm trying to verify by asking that others post their final scoring breakdowns

 

[dahabi]

I target Matt Ryan/Rivers/Big Ben in 6 point TD leagues. I can get them fairly late, and I get above average production out of them.

 

[Ojaays]

I target Matt Ryan/Rivers/Big Ben in 6 point TD leagues. I can get them fairly late, and I get above average production out of them.

After I draft Manning or Brees in the first, I will also be targeting those same QBs late to keep them away from guys that waited.

By round 7 my main starters are rostered, so whoever waited, better not have waited till the 7th.

 

[Chaka]

So if it's 6pts per TD, and you can get Manning or Brees who would both project to be the two TOP fantasy point scorers in the league , period, you would pass on them?

Both Manning and Bree's are projected to throw 40.

At 6 pts per, I'm not passing on that in rnd 1 for a RB who is likely to get hurt and miss games.

This is the bingo part that is often lost on those focusing exclusively on VBD with regards to this question.

So again it increases the likelihood that Manning or Brees will be drafted a few spots earlier but after that is there a QB that provides you their upside while not having a legitimate injury concern? Matt Ryan seems like the next most durable guy with very god upside, maybe Brady?

Yeah 6 pt TDs don't move the needle that much in the grand scheme of the draft.

 

[Chaka]

Hearing so many people talk about getting Rivers, Ryan, Cam etc in rounds 7+ makes Baby Lombardi cry.

Stuff like that is far more out of whack than increasing QB value to the point where *gasp* you actually draft one early.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

So many people here say "i can just get.....rivers/romo/cutler/etc."

it is so bizarre to me that people ignore the very significant advantage in having a stud QB, that has been remarkably consistent for 5 years running, that can get you roughly 5 points a game extra on the "I can just get...." guys, especially if you are drafting at the end of the 1st round where the RB spot is a bit more of crapshoot.

I think there is a fear of playing catch up the rest of the way, but if you are locked in with a solid 27 - 30 points a week every week at the QB spot, it makes up for a lot of chasing and pasting together you have to do with the rest of your roster.

 

[Phenomena]

So many people here say "i can just get.....rivers/romo/cutler/etc."

it is so bizarre to me that people ignore the very significant advantage in having a stud QB, that has been remarkably consistent for 5 years running, that can get you roughly 5 points a game extra on the "I can just get...." guys, especially if you are drafting at the end of the 1st round where the RB spot is a bit more of crapshoot.

I think there is a fear of playing catch up the rest of the way, but if you are locked in with a solid 27 - 30 points a week every week at the QB spot, it makes up for a lot of chasing and pasting together you have to do with the rest of your roster.

Which would you rather have?

2nd - Manning - 460

8th - Tate/Hopkins/Williams - 150

8th - Rivers/Romo/Cam/RG3 - All right around 350 points

2nd - Marshall - 260

Both values are equal if they perform right at their respective ADPs.

I think the reason people opt for scenario 2 is that there's a lot more upside. If you take Manning in the 2nd he not only needs to be the top QB, but by a huge margin. In scenario 2, if whatever QB you select performs above QB10 you win. And the WR you choose in the 2nd has upside to being the top WR, since he's likely to be the 5th-7th off the board.. You're not taking either player at max value in scenario 2. Personally, I abhor taking players at max value - Graham in the 1st? No thanks. Manning in the 2nd is the same game.

 

[FF Ninja]

Unless,it is a 2QB league or a 1RB league, the TD points don't change a whole lot.

Uh, they kinda do. Toss 30 TDs and that's a 60 pt difference in 6pt vs. 4pt leagues.

Compared to the guy who tosses 20 TDs, it's 20 points. It's worth a marginal uptick in overall ADP, but not one worth getting all hot and bothered about.

This guy gets it. QBs already score a lot of points and there is no change in position scarcity here or added roster spot, so this should essentially be a negligible change to drafting strategy. The only slight modification to rankings should be that passing only QBs gain a little value relative to rushing QBs.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

So many people here say "i can just get.....rivers/romo/cutler/etc."

it is so bizarre to me that people ignore the very significant advantage in having a stud QB, that has been remarkably consistent for 5 years running, that can get you roughly 5 points a game extra on the "I can just get...." guys, especially if you are drafting at the end of the 1st round where the RB spot is a bit more of crapshoot.

I think there is a fear of playing catch up the rest of the way, but if you are locked in with a solid 27 - 30 points a week every week at the QB spot, it makes up for a lot of chasing and pasting together you have to do with the rest of your roster.

Which would you rather have?

2nd - Manning - 460

8th - Tate/Hopkins/Williams - 150

8th - Rivers/Romo/Cam/RG3 - All right around 350 points

2nd - Marshall - 260

Both values are equal if they perform right at their respective ADPs.

I think the reason people opt for scenario 2 is that there's a lot more upside. If you take Manning in the 2nd he not only needs to be the top QB, but by a huge margin. In scenario 2, if whatever QB you select performs above QB10 you win. And the WR you choose in the 2nd has upside to being the top WR, since he's likely to be the 5th-7th off the board.. You're not taking either player at max value in scenario 2. Personally, I abhor taking players at max value - Graham in the 1st? No thanks. Manning in the 2nd is the same game.

I get it in a PPR. How about non-PPR? (The difference in the FBG values for PPR vs. non-PPR with 6 pt TDs)-

PPR-

Manning- 6

Brees- 17

Rodgers- 25

Non-PPR

Manning- 5

Brees 11

Rodgers- 20

Brees- 450 (trying to make it apples to apples, because Manning is probably gone at 2.5, for example)

Tate/hopkins- 110

Romo- 360

Marshall- 180

Your point about taking players at max value is a fair one, but I think there is a greater level of confidence that the QB will achieve to historical levels than an other positions.

 

[Ojaays]

All I know is, in my league, Manning, Brees and Rogers will be gone by 1.08, so none of those scenarios apply.

 

[need2know]

Another good thing about taking a stud qb is you dont usually need to carry multiple qbs. So it does free a roster spot

 

[need2know]

I have the 7 pick in a 12 team redraft where its 6pts for all tds. Starting to like the idea of just taking one of the top three qbs there. One at least will be gone when it gets to me. Probably end up with rodgers

 

[LawFitz]

Another good thing about taking a stud qb is you dont usually need to carry multiple qbs. So it does free a roster spot

Yup.

Last year that roster spot turned into Julius Thomas for me. Then later, it turned into Keenan Allen. These are extremes, of course, but the jist of the idea applies.

 

[Dondante]

How about in auction drafts? What percentage of your budget are you willing to spend on the big 3 or 4 QBs in a 6 point format?
I know there are other factors at play in an auction format, but in general, for the purpose of this discussion.

 

[theToes]

I have the 7 pick in a 12 team redraft where its 6pts for all tds. Starting to like the idea of just taking one of the top three qbs there. One at least will be gone when it gets to me. Probably end up with rodgers

I'm in the same situation and I think I'll have a choice between Brees, Rodgers or Megatron.

I think scoring and the drafting tendencies of others in the league can help make this decision.

my league is 6 pts. all td's. 5 pt bonus at 300 yards another 5pts at 400 yds . This bonus really makes the elite guys more valuable.

Manning had 8 games over 300 yds and additional 4 games over 400 that almost equal to additonal 12-14 tds.

Manning scored 608 points and Brees was second at 486. Rivers was third at 378.

That is a huge advantage when you have one of the elite guys. I know manning won't have the same record breaking year as he had last year but he will produce the same if not a little more than brees did a year ago.

Drafting tendencies play a part in my league is well. Because the qb's score so much a lot of guys take them early. I would not be surprisd if 7 qb's are drafted before the end of the second round in my league.

The benefit of this is that players that should be taken early will slide farther than they should so I can expect to get a better player in the 2nd and 3rd that most of you would expect.

The last 7 league champions had either Brees, Manning, or Rodgers at qb.