Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I thought this was an interesting thread, but this statement basically shows you are just making stuff up.
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QB Case Keenum, HOU (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Major
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
So you are saying they are going to make another movie about a kid that played 1 game of football that means nothing in the grand scheme of things?
Sean Astin is a little old, who do you think will play Case?
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It's still an entertaining thread though. It's not like, "good information that can help your fantasy team" interesting but it's funny at least.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
yeah I wish it was always this easy to tell between "homer with good information" and "drunk guy making up information"
Evil G
Footballguy
Everything I have seen so far this season tells me Case will succeed. Nothing to do with Case himself, but rather simply the looming 'Get on the Case' Free Agent advice from CBS and elsewhere.
Just because it seems so unlikely, such an impossible task...Case will look good vs KC, in probably a losing effort, yet still secure the starting job.
Nothing but pure gut instinct: 305 yards passing, 2 Pa TDs, 2 INTs, 25 yards rushing. One of the PaTDs comes in garbage time.
KC wins 31 to 20.
Going forward, Case plays like a B+ guy, flashes of brilliance. He's your starter in 2014 for the Texans, saving a QB Draft pick in the first two rounds.
Schaub's time is over.
If only because I missed the boat on Keenum in every league I am in...this is what will happen. Mark my words.
Just because it seems so unlikely, such an impossible task...Case will look good vs KC, in probably a losing effort, yet still secure the starting job.
Nothing but pure gut instinct: 305 yards passing, 2 Pa TDs, 2 INTs, 25 yards rushing. One of the PaTDs comes in garbage time.
KC wins 31 to 20.
Going forward, Case plays like a B+ guy, flashes of brilliance. He's your starter in 2014 for the Texans, saving a QB Draft pick in the first two rounds.
Schaub's time is over.
If only because I missed the boat on Keenum in every league I am in...this is what will happen. Mark my words.
tdhartis
Footballguy
Pump the brakes there. He hasn't seen a single down of regular season NFL action.
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Faust
MVP
GregR
Footballguy
Someone asked about the O-line. The Texans O-line is decent in the run game, but right tackle Derek Newton is getting beat badly much of the time and Justin Houston and Tamba Hali may feast on him. I hope the Texans will go with Ryan Harris at RT instead. LG was a Pro Bowler last year but isn't playing as well this year. Chris Meyers is one of the best centers in the NFL but I won't be surprised if he has some troubles with the size/strength of the Chief's tackles. Though having massive RG Brandon Brooks may help him out there some.
Worth noting though that while Yates and Schaub are both kind of plodders, Keenum is mobile. So if they are having offensive line problems, Keenum might have an edge over the other QBs. Though for a rookie you'd much rather give him time to throw.
For those asking whether Kubiak is setting him up to fail... I'd ask you this. Put yourself in Gary Kubiak's shoes. You very likely may be fired at the end of this season if you don't turn the team around. With your job on the line, would you give away a game to try to shut up the small segment of fans that were cheering Schaub's injury? I hope not. The Texans saw enough in Keenum in preseason to keep him on the normal roster despite not liking to carry 3 QBs. They knew he would be picked up if they tried to get him to the practice squad. Far more likely Kubiak is grasping at straws than setting him up to fail. But I don't think it's grasping at straws either. Yates and Keenum played pretty much even in preseason. Throw in Keenum's mobility and that he's a less-known quantity, and that he has the personality intangibles and I think it's obvious he's worth a try if Schaub isn't ready to go. It's possible neither Yates nor Keenum will ever be starter caliber, but I think Keenum's ceiling is higher if he can handle the rest of the things a QB needs to do well.
As for what to expect this game... I imagine Kubiak will be extremely conservative. He's going to try to keep it to short throws and manageable situations and not make Keenum have to go out and win the game with his arm. Which if he does, he's pretty much just amplifying some of the predictability shortcomings that have let other defenses this year feast on Schaub. But I'm going to be surprised if that is not the case. He did it with Yates when he had to fill in for Schaub 2 years ago. Against Indy I think Yates might have only attempted one pass over 10 yards. Now if they are behind and have to throw to catch up, sure Kubiak will open it up more. But I definitely would not expect Houston to air it out until forced to. They'll try to go with their strengths, run the ball well and go play action. There may be big plays off play action, sure, but I wouldn't expect Air Coryell.
Worth noting though that while Yates and Schaub are both kind of plodders, Keenum is mobile. So if they are having offensive line problems, Keenum might have an edge over the other QBs. Though for a rookie you'd much rather give him time to throw.
For those asking whether Kubiak is setting him up to fail... I'd ask you this. Put yourself in Gary Kubiak's shoes. You very likely may be fired at the end of this season if you don't turn the team around. With your job on the line, would you give away a game to try to shut up the small segment of fans that were cheering Schaub's injury? I hope not. The Texans saw enough in Keenum in preseason to keep him on the normal roster despite not liking to carry 3 QBs. They knew he would be picked up if they tried to get him to the practice squad. Far more likely Kubiak is grasping at straws than setting him up to fail. But I don't think it's grasping at straws either. Yates and Keenum played pretty much even in preseason. Throw in Keenum's mobility and that he's a less-known quantity, and that he has the personality intangibles and I think it's obvious he's worth a try if Schaub isn't ready to go. It's possible neither Yates nor Keenum will ever be starter caliber, but I think Keenum's ceiling is higher if he can handle the rest of the things a QB needs to do well.
As for what to expect this game... I imagine Kubiak will be extremely conservative. He's going to try to keep it to short throws and manageable situations and not make Keenum have to go out and win the game with his arm. Which if he does, he's pretty much just amplifying some of the predictability shortcomings that have let other defenses this year feast on Schaub. But I'm going to be surprised if that is not the case. He did it with Yates when he had to fill in for Schaub 2 years ago. Against Indy I think Yates might have only attempted one pass over 10 yards. Now if they are behind and have to throw to catch up, sure Kubiak will open it up more. But I definitely would not expect Houston to air it out until forced to. They'll try to go with their strengths, run the ball well and go play action. There may be big plays off play action, sure, but I wouldn't expect Air Coryell.
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jsharlan
Footballguy
I think Kubiak is hedging his bets. By starting Keenum in the worst of possible conditions he is banking on one of two things happening. Keenum getting overwhelmed by the speed of the game and having a horrible performance. This would allow him to quiet the fans and heal Schaub up over the bye and go back to the status quo. Or if Keenum pulls off the miracle win, Kubiak can commit to him and has 2 weeks over the bye to really get him ready.
jsharlan
Footballguy
I don't disagree with the Arrowhead part, but Keenum is not a rookie, and has been on the active roster all season.
jsharlan
Footballguy
One piece of homer advice on Keenum, he has a much much better deep ball than Schaub, and has shown a willingness to go down field. This may benefit Hopkins with his leaping ability. Also since Keenum is so much more mobile than Schaub, those bootlegs Kubiak likes so much might have another dimension.
When you are making your first NFL start, and you spent your first year on the practice squad, you are the same as a Rookie. He has been on the active roster this year, but most likely not getting any practice reps other than the scout team, until this week.
I have Keenum on my roster in a dynasty league, but I am not encouraged by the decision to start him now. I think if the Texans thought he was the QB of the future, they would have started Yates this week, and then come back with Kennum after the Bye. That would have given him two weeks to prepare as a starter instead of a 1/2 week.
I hope he plays well this weekend, but I don't think the Texans view him as their future QB right now.
jsharlan
Footballguy
There is a huge difference in knowledge and comfort in the system from a rookie to a second year guy. Keenum's improvement from last year to this is why he pushed Yates for the backup job in camp this year. Kubiak is just a stickler for staying with his vets. No one is claiming he is the second coming of Jesus or even Tebojesus, but my point is there is a big difference between a real rookie and a second year guy without many reps.
I don't personally think he is the QB of the future, but sometimes the only thing separating two guys is opportunity. No one in Houston thought Foster was who he is when he was on the practice squad his rookie year either.
Shutout
Footballguy
I think a lot of people are going to be in shock when the Texans win this game or, at least, play it pretty close.
THe recipe on this one is easy to see.
The Texans will run the legs off Foster and Tate in this game. THe hand has already been tipped. Foster was held from practice yesterday. They do this when they plan a heavy workload.
Case is a mobile QB. They are going to have the run and a moving pocket offset the KC rush. THey are not going to set him back there and let one of the best defenses in the league tee off on him. THey will run, run, run, move around in the pocket a bit to establish a new launch point, take time off the clock, and keep it close and try to get a win.
As good as the Chiefs record is, they aren't an air-it-out team so the Texans can employ a strategy like this and play rope-a-dope all game and people may be forgetting that the Texans have a pretty good defense in their own right.
This game has 21-17 or 27-24 written all over it with Case managing the game just enough to look like the Texans have something here.
The x-factor in this game is going to be if the Texans can run and they can actually hit a big play-action play here or there OR if Case can hurt the Chiefs with his feet, he may actually come out of this game with some Hoyer-like buzz after this one. I can definitely see the legs hurting the Chiefs. I am sure that defense is licking its chops thinking they are just going to pin their ears back and pressure him all day and when teams crash that edge and get too aggressive, it opens up major running lanes for the QB or for a back coming out of the backfield.
The only way I think this game doesn't follow that script is if ST or a big play pops up somewhere and the Texans DO find themselves down big and forced to air it out. THen the Chiefs probably will tee off on him but as long as it remains close, I'd bet my money on the under on this one and feel pretty good about the Texans covering.
THe recipe on this one is easy to see.
The Texans will run the legs off Foster and Tate in this game. THe hand has already been tipped. Foster was held from practice yesterday. They do this when they plan a heavy workload.
Case is a mobile QB. They are going to have the run and a moving pocket offset the KC rush. THey are not going to set him back there and let one of the best defenses in the league tee off on him. THey will run, run, run, move around in the pocket a bit to establish a new launch point, take time off the clock, and keep it close and try to get a win.
As good as the Chiefs record is, they aren't an air-it-out team so the Texans can employ a strategy like this and play rope-a-dope all game and people may be forgetting that the Texans have a pretty good defense in their own right.
This game has 21-17 or 27-24 written all over it with Case managing the game just enough to look like the Texans have something here.
The x-factor in this game is going to be if the Texans can run and they can actually hit a big play-action play here or there OR if Case can hurt the Chiefs with his feet, he may actually come out of this game with some Hoyer-like buzz after this one. I can definitely see the legs hurting the Chiefs. I am sure that defense is licking its chops thinking they are just going to pin their ears back and pressure him all day and when teams crash that edge and get too aggressive, it opens up major running lanes for the QB or for a back coming out of the backfield.
The only way I think this game doesn't follow that script is if ST or a big play pops up somewhere and the Texans DO find themselves down big and forced to air it out. THen the Chiefs probably will tee off on him but as long as it remains close, I'd bet my money on the under on this one and feel pretty good about the Texans covering.
xpiredcoupon
Footballguy
Is anyone benching Andre this week? And if you are, for who?
Starting his first game, going against the toughest defense @ Arrowhead. Tough benching Andre but I think I may do it this week.
Starting his first game, going against the toughest defense @ Arrowhead. Tough benching Andre but I think I may do it this week.
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Second Sight
Footballguy
I am benching him for T.Y. Hilton so I know I probably have a luxury choice a lot of people don't have.
To explore the question further and establish a line of about where (who) you substitute him for, I would say Steve Smith is the balancing point. I am not taking him out for Stevie Johnson, Emmanuel Sanders, Aaron Dobson, Leonard Hankerson or other guys that have been up and down here or there, but I would for guys that generally are know to be steady in commanding at least targets, even if it doesn't translate into receptions every week (hence, being ok with T.Y. Hilton).§
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jsharlan
Footballguy
I like alot of this, but I will add that I think the biggest factor for the game is going to be turnovers for Houston. Houston is giving up turnovers at one of the worse rates in the league, and KC is getting takeaways at one of the best rates in the league. Its a recipe for disaster. So if Houston finds a way to not turn the ball over, I think they will have a real chance, because Alex Smith is a game manager relying on his defense to do all the legwork for him.
Dismattle
Footballguy
Hey Guys
I don't think theres no discounting actual playing time at NFL speed. But a poorly planned course on offense, could make most any defense look like the Chiefs. The Texans do have some D themselves, so its quite possible that such a crash course in the NFL, may turn out better then some appear to believe. Hopefully Case isn't responsible for too many turnovers, and is able to let his defense limit the Chiefs to 14 points?
We also must consider the fact that the Chiefs D may take this situation as easy pickins. But Im not the biggest fan of Schaub tbh. I believe a healthy Schuab would be lit up by the Chiefs, both physically and in picks.
However Im not sold on expecting a Hoyer type stranglehold on the position. Schaub is quoted as saying that he heard a pop in his ankle? In other words, I agree that this could be considered a start due to injury. But the door is open, or the opportunity is present. Basically I believe the Texans would enjoy running an option play now and again w that OLine. (just not so much this wk)
Id consider looking at some of the highlight videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qall2WwWg8o The biggest kick I got was hearing his fav NFL QB is KOLB. But youll see the energy that AJ references, mentioned above.
p.s. imho this is a classic case of prejudging a guy who doesn't measure up height-wise. Also on a side note, I had Case in my lineup, the day before he was announced the starter. But Im starting the Chiefs Def/ST..
I don't think theres no discounting actual playing time at NFL speed. But a poorly planned course on offense, could make most any defense look like the Chiefs. The Texans do have some D themselves, so its quite possible that such a crash course in the NFL, may turn out better then some appear to believe. Hopefully Case isn't responsible for too many turnovers, and is able to let his defense limit the Chiefs to 14 points?
We also must consider the fact that the Chiefs D may take this situation as easy pickins. But Im not the biggest fan of Schaub tbh. I believe a healthy Schuab would be lit up by the Chiefs, both physically and in picks.
However Im not sold on expecting a Hoyer type stranglehold on the position. Schaub is quoted as saying that he heard a pop in his ankle? In other words, I agree that this could be considered a start due to injury. But the door is open, or the opportunity is present. Basically I believe the Texans would enjoy running an option play now and again w that OLine. (just not so much this wk)
Id consider looking at some of the highlight videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qall2WwWg8o The biggest kick I got was hearing his fav NFL QB is KOLB. But youll see the energy that AJ references, mentioned above.
p.s. imho this is a classic case of prejudging a guy who doesn't measure up height-wise. Also on a side note, I had Case in my lineup, the day before he was announced the starter. But Im starting the Chiefs Def/ST..
ChiefD
Footballguy
Pretty much the way I see it. The Chiefs offense is really horrible, and the Texans defense may end up with some defensive scores on their own. The Chiefs also have this annoying habit of playing like crap for three quarters only to pull away in the 4th.
If they allow Houston to hang around, this could be bad for the Chiefs. Throw in the mindset of: we're awesome and playing a rookie QB, and this one has all the makings of the classic trap game.
I think Houston wins this thing: something like 24-17.
xpiredcoupon
Footballguy
Agree with the texans' game plan this sunday. But don't agree with the score. This might be a shutout. KC is going to obliterate them.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Hello bench, Andre
sitting him for Allen
sitting him for Allen
Second Sight
Footballguy
Each one of those listed are ones I thought of and seem like true coin flips (very borderline).
Mike Williams and Terrance Williams seem very strong candidates to replace Andre this week.
With Gronkowski returning, all bets are off in New England. §
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
Tough first game for Keenum, I'm a bit surprised that they went away from Yates. If HOU struggles to establish a running game, it's over. KC plays primarily Cover 1 and can drop either S to the box .
Putting a player into the best position to win is not the way this will go down, into the fire is more like it.
Putting a player into the best position to win is not the way this will go down, into the fire is more like it.
From his 2012 sportsline.com draft profile:
Positives: Good short to intermediate accuracy. Makes quick decisions, getting the ball out of his hands before defenders can get to him. Intelligent passer who makes good pre-snap reads. Efficient over the top release. Good vision to locate passing lanes. Gutty and determined. Shows some feel in the pocket and is athletic enough to move about and/or escape the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. A coach's son with all of the intangibles every team is looking for in a quarterback. Negatives: Slight frame with limited room for additional growth. Possesses an average arm that forces him to wind up to drive the ball longer than 15 yards. Had his statistics inflated based on a spread offense in which most of his attempts were not NFL-caliber throws. Took virtually all of his snaps out of the shotgun and made most of his decisions before receiving the ball. Struggled when the pocket collapsed and he was forced to come off of his initial read. Suffered a torn ACL against UCLA in 2010, ending his season after just three starts. --Rob Rang
Positives: Good short to intermediate accuracy. Makes quick decisions, getting the ball out of his hands before defenders can get to him. Intelligent passer who makes good pre-snap reads. Efficient over the top release. Good vision to locate passing lanes. Gutty and determined. Shows some feel in the pocket and is athletic enough to move about and/or escape the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. A coach's son with all of the intangibles every team is looking for in a quarterback. Negatives: Slight frame with limited room for additional growth. Possesses an average arm that forces him to wind up to drive the ball longer than 15 yards. Had his statistics inflated based on a spread offense in which most of his attempts were not NFL-caliber throws. Took virtually all of his snaps out of the shotgun and made most of his decisions before receiving the ball. Struggled when the pocket collapsed and he was forced to come off of his initial read. Suffered a torn ACL against UCLA in 2010, ending his season after just three starts. --Rob Rang
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
It seems as though everyone thinks his arm is average at best. I am going to throw the "laser arm" comments made earlier in this thread out the window.
nirad3
Footballguy
I've seen this somewhere before. 
I was flambayed elsewhere for even intimating that this guy had some talent and should be watched.
I think if he has a decent outing, isn't too rattled... maybe goes 240/2 and keeps the Texans in it, that you're looking at a solid NFL QB in the making.
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Faust
MVP
A look back at why Case Keenum went undrafted
By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
October 18, 2013 12:08 am ET
By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
October 18, 2013 12:08 am ET
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Man was this guy prolific in college.
Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing
Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
*2007 Houston CUSA FR QB 187 273 68.5 2259 8.3 7.7 14 10 147.6
*2008 Houston CUSA SO QB 397 589 67.4 5020 8.5 9.2 44 11 159.9
*2009 Houston CUSA JR QB 492 700 70.3 5671 8.1 8.4 44 15 154.8
2010 Houston CUSA JR QB 42 64 65.6 636 9.9 8.0 5 5 159.3
*2011 Houston CUSA SR QB 428 603 71.0 5631 9.3 10.6 48 5 174.0
Career Houston 1546 2229 69.4 19217 8.6 9.1 155 46 160.6
First off I think the bigger deal is what does this do to Foster and AJ.
Secondly, get past KC, then bye, then is Schaub coming back automatically?
Somewhere in there Houston is still a good team.
Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing Passing
Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
*2007 Houston CUSA FR QB 187 273 68.5 2259 8.3 7.7 14 10 147.6
*2008 Houston CUSA SO QB 397 589 67.4 5020 8.5 9.2 44 11 159.9
*2009 Houston CUSA JR QB 492 700 70.3 5671 8.1 8.4 44 15 154.8
2010 Houston CUSA JR QB 42 64 65.6 636 9.9 8.0 5 5 159.3
*2011 Houston CUSA SR QB 428 603 71.0 5631 9.3 10.6 48 5 174.0
Career Houston 1546 2229 69.4 19217 8.6 9.1 155 46 160.6
First off I think the bigger deal is what does this do to Foster and AJ.
Secondly, get past KC, then bye, then is Schaub coming back automatically?
Somewhere in there Houston is still a good team.
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Xue
Footballguy
They know what they have in Yates. Time to find out about Keenum. I'd say Texans likely selecting a QB early (1st-3rd round) in the next draft.
FUBAR
Footballguy
AJ might be ok but don't expect any long passes turned big plays. Graham is the play here. Foster will likely have more success receiving than running too.I think case can be an adequate starter, just hope he gets another chance after this game. Kind of sucks that his first game is this one.
FWIW, I'm starting Marcus Cooper or flowers in every league I can. Chiefs D was already as must start.
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loose circuits
Footballguy
Trying to get a 4th for him; sounds like the risk (or lack thereof) should be worth it for someone
I turned down a 3rd in a 16-team dynasty league. I want to wait and see what happens this weekend. If he bombs, a 3rd rounder really isn't that much to have lost, but if he plays well he is worth a first rounder.loose circuits
Footballguy
would like the roster spot. 12 team may not have as bad of QB scarcity, are they typically worth more in your league?
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
I can't imagine anyone doing this with confidence as you say....I mean, as a Texans fan I'm glad he's getting a shot and I'm (very) cautiously hopeful, but no way I'd roll with him in fantasy at that stadium except in the deepest of leagues and in desperation mode....
On the bright side, if he does well and pulls off a miraculous upset we'll have quite a cult hero down here...
....and if not we're well on our way to a new QB next year in a draft with some decent QBs
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Best offer I got for Hoyer in my 16 team league was a 5th, after he played well and before injury. I didn't take it. I asked for a de upgrade and was rejected.
There's no way I'd get a first unless he looks like Peyton.
Yeah QBs are gold, with only 32 starters for 16 teams.would like the roster spot. 12 team may not have as bad of QB scarcity, are they typically worth more in your league?
Dismattle
Footballguy
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/mcclain/article/Jones-certain-Texans-Keenum-possesses-it-factor-4905819.php?t=09ad29a86ecc308649 Jones certain Texans' Keenum possesses 'it' factor
In May, I was visiting with Jones in the Dallas area. I asked him about Matt Schaub. Before responding to my Schaub question, Jones said, "Let me tell you about Case Keenum."
per Twitter :
Art Briles can coach like a mother. And recruit. He's the only D1 coach that offered Case Keenum a scholarship.
predict Texans will upset KC tomorrow. Keenum will make some plays, and defense will wake up and play hard for Wade, to honor Bum.
I told you earlier this week that if Case Keenum plaus for the Texans he is going to ball out. WATCH! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000264813/article/case-keenum-will-start-sunday-for-houston-texans …
#Kubiak on #CaseKeenum : "I want him to cut it loose & play with energy. He’s earned the right. He’s worked hard.”
I think Keenum has a shot, and almost wish Hou plays Den earlier then wk 16. imo Dal game was good, but both Def sorta lost (lot of points scored) However I can understand the conflicting interpretation of expected results ie. Coach Jones asserts to anointing Keenum, yet it appears didn't offer a Scholarship. Personally I don't know about starting Keenum over known value/matchups, but trading just to be trading sounds kinda lame
In May, I was visiting with Jones in the Dallas area. I asked him about Matt Schaub. Before responding to my Schaub question, Jones said, "Let me tell you about Case Keenum."
per Twitter :
Art Briles can coach like a mother. And recruit. He's the only D1 coach that offered Case Keenum a scholarship.
predict Texans will upset KC tomorrow. Keenum will make some plays, and defense will wake up and play hard for Wade, to honor Bum.
I told you earlier this week that if Case Keenum plaus for the Texans he is going to ball out. WATCH! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000264813/article/case-keenum-will-start-sunday-for-houston-texans …
#Kubiak on #CaseKeenum : "I want him to cut it loose & play with energy. He’s earned the right. He’s worked hard.”
I think Keenum has a shot, and almost wish Hou plays Den earlier then wk 16. imo Dal game was good, but both Def sorta lost (lot of points scored) However I can understand the conflicting interpretation of expected results ie. Coach Jones asserts to anointing Keenum, yet it appears didn't offer a Scholarship. Personally I don't know about starting Keenum over known value/matchups, but trading just to be trading sounds kinda lame
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
he`s the next Kurt Warner....no really
Dismattle
Footballguy
actually Keenum would be the next Delhomme ie. undrafted, practice squad, third string, starter Now he just needs to throw two TD's
FUBAR
Footballguy
Desperation play only. I grabbed him in two leagues, one a couple weeks ago. Benched in both. Not that it matters but couldn't even think of starting him over Peyton or Stafford.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Desperation play only. I grabbed him in two leagues, one a couple weeks ago. Benched in both. Not that it matters but couldn't even think of starting him over Peyton or Stafford.
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