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QB Daniel Jones, MIN (2 Viewers)

Terpman22 said:
Anarchy99 said:
Qammy said:
Anarchy99 said:
Qammy said:
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Lamar for 2 firsts (and new contract) or Dan Jones for 4/160 and whatever trade compensation you'd receive for him (let's say 2nd and another mid pick/insert whatever you believe could be received).
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Reputation aside ... Jackson hasnt been that good for the past 2 seasons.

2021-2022 ... Which stats are better ???
Cmp % 63.4 5124 yds 33 TDs 20 Ints
Cmp % 65.9 5633 yds 25 TDs 12 ints
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Which stats are better???
277 combined yds and 1.6 TD/gm and a 15-9 record (2021-22)
245 combined yds and 1.25 TD/gm and a 13-13-1 record (2021-22)

273 combined yards and 2.05 TD/gm and a 45-16 career record
251 combined yards and 1.35 TD/gm and a 21-31-1 career record

Both the Ravens and Giants have had mediocre receiving options and lots of injuries, so that part is pretty similar.
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First off - Nobody said Jones has had a better career Jackson so quite down ... Jones Stats over the past 2 Season are comparable to Jackson that's all I'm pointing out.
Second - recarding the bolded ... No it's not
Mark Andrews is one of the Best TE's in the NFL and Marquis Brown was a 1st rd Draft pick and a damn good receiver ... neither is close to mediocre
Plus Oline Ranking 2. BALTIMORE RAVENS 30. NEW YORK GIANTS
And playing fewer games is not a positive ... That goes in the negative column

Jackson
Great QB , Great Oline, Great TE , Very Good WR and mediocre production over the last 2 seasons
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There's a difference between mediocre production and missed time due to injury. PLAYER X that had 3,000 passing yards in 10 games should not be considered less productive than PLAYER Y that had 3,200 passing yards in 17 games. Thats just silly. (This is a hypothetical example and is not incorporating Jackson or Jones at all.)

Since you brought up the Ravens, yes, Andrews is one of the best tight ends, but he was banged up all season. Andrews was the only player that had 500 receiving yards for the Ravens this year. Bateman missed 11 or 12 games. They were so short on options, they had to bring in Sammy Watkins and DeSean Jackson. Their top WR this season was Demarcus Robinson (458 yards), who's been a JAG for 7 seasons.

How many RBs have the Ravens churned through the past two years due to injury? Dobbins, Freeman, Murray, Bell, Hill, Edwards, Drake. Compare that to having Saquon this season (1650 YFS/10 TD).

No question the Ravens had a healthy offensive line and better OL play. But the Ravens weren't stocked with WR like CIN or have a healthy backfield last year or this year.
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Maybe the Giants just have a bad front office and got lucky last year, I dunno. When was the last time they actually had a good WR they drafted? Or tight end. Oh yeah, they let Evan Engram go. Saquon is nice, but you better damn well be nice if you are a RUNNING BACK getting drafted at #2 overall. Seems the Giants play is to draft a player much higher than anyone else would, then double down and give those guys MORE MONEY on top of the high dollar amounts they already made on a rookie deal. This nonsense of "insert this player here or take away this players' entire team THEN LETS SEE HOW GOOD THEY ARE" is just that, nonsense. Akin to saying "well, take away my lungs and brain and see how good you can live!" Its very weird. "Well, my average QB was average b/c the rest of the roster construction was crap" doesn't really give faith to an objective person that "well they are on the right track now" when they just finished a season 2-5 and got boatraced by a divisional rival in the playoffs. Cool Giants had the 30th ranked offensive line and terrible offensive weapons. Where is the Giants "AJ Brown" move to help Jones out?
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You're preaching to the choir!
We are hopeful that Schoen is going to turn it around but I'm not encouraged by his first draft
 
Qammy said:
  • Jones (92.5 / 60.8) had a higher QB Rating and QBR than Jackson (91.1 / 59.0) in 2022
  • hypothetical examples are silly
  • Andrews had more Yards and started more games then any Giant TE or Receiver
  • Giants WRs were 5th, 6th and 7th round picks that were picked up off of waivers and practice squads
  • Drake, Dobbins, and Edwards, averaged more yds per carry then Saquan had almost the same combined yds and more TDs on fewer touches ... so I dont feel bad for Jackson
  • Giants have been in the bottom 5 Oline annually for at least the past 4-5 years, They haven't had a 1000 Receiver since Odell, Giants are annually one of the top injured team in the NFL and the most injured team since 2009 ... I don't want hear crap about injuries !
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I am not the enemy here, and I often have cited all the things you have as reasons why the Giants have not done better (injuries, no OL, and no receiving threats). That being said, they haven't hit on many draft picks, the new coaching staff didn't have much use for Toney or Golladay, and some of their issues are self-inflicted.
 
Anarchy99 said:
Terpman22 said:
When was the last time they actually had a good WR they drafted?
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As a Patriots fan, I can assure you that the Giants have drafted better receivers over the years than NE has. OBJ trumps anything the Pats picked up. Edelman turned out to be productive . . . but he was a QB coming out of college.
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So 2014 is the answer. Ouch. And he, like Engram is not on the roster.

Daniel Jones admittedly had terrible weapons to throw to last year, maybe that explains his ADOT being so low. I guess my point is, that yeah, maybe if DJ gets some weapons we will finally get to see what he can truly do. Just based on the past 5-10 years, I'm not so certain that the Giants have the "whatever" to get it done - stones to make a big trade, the scouting to make a good draft pick, or now, the money to be able to woo a free agent WR.
 
Anarchy99 said:
I am not the enemy here, and I often have cited all the things you have as reasons why the Giants have not done better (injuries, no OL, and no receiving threats). That being said, they haven't hit on many draft picks, the new coaching staff didn't have much use for Toney or Golladay, and some of their issues are self-inflicted.
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No kidding...draft picks that have received second contracts since their 2010 draft class, only defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul, receiver Odell Beckham Jr, and receiver Sterling Shepard received new deals after their rookie contracts expired until Jones yesterday and perhaps Barkley upcoming.
 
The Frankman said:
Bri said:
Winning IS Everything said:
Yeah, I would have preferred them come to a 2-3 year deal with Saquon. Saquon was a generational talent coming out of college, had a great rookie year, tore an ACL then had a great comeback year this season to prove his worth. Get his last 2-3 good years out of him, and tag Danny Dimes as I think that team still needs OL and WR help as well as a long term QB.
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The RB market stinks and is even worse for previously injured RBs.
Their money is in endorsements as we all love a top RB.
I don't know that another team will offer Saquan a truckload of money but I do think a new fanbase will welcome him with open arms and buy a ton of new merch. Add on new advertising companies and Saquan makes a lot of money leaving.
NY is the media capital and blah blah blah. What's he make there in endorsements? I imagine it's a lot.
This is Saquan's real salary issue.
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... Daniel Jones just got $5 million less per year than Patrick Mahomes...

Now tell me which market stinks.
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RB
 
Terpman22 said:
The Frankman said:
Bri said:
Winning IS Everything said:
Yeah, I would have preferred them come to a 2-3 year deal with Saquon. Saquon was a generational talent coming out of college, had a great rookie year, tore an ACL then had a great comeback year this season to prove his worth. Get his last 2-3 good years out of him, and tag Danny Dimes as I think that team still needs OL and WR help as well as a long term QB.
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The RB market stinks and is even worse for previously injured RBs.
Their money is in endorsements as we all love a top RB.
I don't know that another team will offer Saquan a truckload of money but I do think a new fanbase will welcome him with open arms and buy a ton of new merch. Add on new advertising companies and Saquan makes a lot of money leaving.
NY is the media capital and blah blah blah. What's he make there in endorsements? I imagine it's a lot.
This is Saquan's real salary issue.
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... Daniel Jones just got $5 million less per year than Patrick Mahomes...

Now tell me which market stinks.
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Do people not know how this works? Every year the cap goes up, the salaries for players go up. Mahomes signed that deal 2+ years ago. Thats how it goes. **At the time of signing** he was the highest paid NFL player. Assuming he is the all time great we think he is **when its his turn** he once again will become the highest paid player.
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Yep.
Curtis Martin just got knocked off the top ten free agent RB contracts list a year ago. That's how far the RBs have fallen.
Pollard got top five money and he makes 10 while Jones gets paid this.
 
Rubi said:
You read it here first. Daniel Jones will be All-Pro next season.
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As a Giants fan I hope you are correct.

Also as a fan I have to think that Schoen & Daboll liked Jones’ rookie tape and felt like Joe Judge & Jason Garrett broke him or at least stunted his growth and that they have now corrected what Judge & Garrett broke/stunted.
 
Getting OT now, but the QB market has been overpaid for years with mediocre "fraudulent" QBs getting huge amounts of money (Garoppolo, Cousins). The one barrier was that at least it was vet QBs who had been very good before, although for some reason elite RBs and WRs can't get paid. Saquon Barkley is a elite RB; there should be no shame paying him 3/$43.5 million (13.5 million AAS, 3rd year option year) than paying a thoroughly mediocre QB $41 million. I mean talent-wise and money-wise it makes little sense.
 
If the Giants cut Jones after three years, it’s $37.5 [million] a year. He will have earned $112.5m
The 4th year $47,500,000 is not guaranteed ... If they decide to keep him or renegotiate at that point then it obviously worked out well for both sides.
So this is actually well done by the Giants and right about what everyone was expecting
 
Qammy said:
If the Giants cut Jones after three years, it’s $37.5 [million] a year. He will have earned $112.5m
The 4th year $47,500,000 is not guaranteed ... If they decide to keep him or renegotiate at that point then it obviously worked out well for both sides.
So this is actually well done by the Giants and right about what everyone was expecting
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guess it comes down to what you think he's worth, personally I wouldn't have paid him more than $3M/yr.
 
It would NOT shock me to see DJ have a great season. He’s got that big target in Waller and couple of deep threats in Paris Campbell and Hyde. I’m not a fan of Shepard and Slayton. Oh having Saquon on the team from day 1 will only help.
 
My league changed its scoring structure this year that puts a high premium on running QBs. Most of the running QBs are already at the top of the rankings, but Daniel Jones is really standing out to me as a potential later round value. Do we think he played at his ceiling last year, in particular in regards to his running production? Is it reasonable to assume he'll at least come close to his 2022 numbers this year?
 
Scoresman said:
My league changed its scoring structure this year that puts a high premium on running QBs. Most of the running QBs are already at the top of the rankings, but Daniel Jones is really standing out to me as a potential later round value. Do we think he played at his ceiling last year, in particular in regards to his running production? Is it reasonable to assume he'll at least come close to his 2022 numbers this year?
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He added Waller so I think he gets a bump up.
 
Leroy Hoard said:
Scoresman said:
My league changed its scoring structure this year that puts a high premium on running QBs. Most of the running QBs are already at the top of the rankings, but Daniel Jones is really standing out to me as a potential later round value. Do we think he played at his ceiling last year, in particular in regards to his running production? Is it reasonable to assume he'll at least come close to his 2022 numbers this year?
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He added Waller so I think he gets a bump up.
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That's what I figure. But last year he pretty much doubled his average rushing totals. Is that a result of the new coaching staff, or was it because he had no one to throw too? Does anyone know if the new coaching staff last year purposefully ran more QB run plays?
 
Scoresman said:
Leroy Hoard said:
Scoresman said:
My league changed its scoring structure this year that puts a high premium on running QBs. Most of the running QBs are already at the top of the rankings, but Daniel Jones is really standing out to me as a potential later round value. Do we think he played at his ceiling last year, in particular in regards to his running production? Is it reasonable to assume he'll at least come close to his 2022 numbers this year?
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He added Waller so I think he gets a bump up.
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That's what I figure. But last year he pretty much doubled his average rushing totals. Is that a result of the new coaching staff, or was it because he had no one to throw too? Does anyone know if the new coaching staff last year purposefully ran more QB run plays?
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The G-men had 20 different OL combinations last year. Andrew Thomas played like a 4th overall pick. The rest, meh. If Evan Neal can step it up at RT and the rookie Center (who by reports is playing well), can handle his business. I'd expect less rushing yards. He did not have much to throw to last year. This year looks different if they stay healthy. just my opinion.
 
Uncle Leo said:
It would NOT shock me to see DJ have a great season. He’s got that big target in Waller and couple of deep threats in Paris Campbell and Hyde. I’m not a fan of Shepard and Slayton. Oh having Saquon on the team from day 1 will only help.
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It wouldn't shock me to see him improve, with improved weapons. He had, I believe, the 30-32nd ranked ADOT last year. Not sure if its him not taking chances, the lack of passing weapons, or a bit of a combination. If Daniel Jones has a "great season" I would definitely be shocked though.
 
Terpman22 said:
Uncle Leo said:
It would NOT shock me to see DJ have a great season. He’s got that big target in Waller and couple of deep threats in Paris Campbell and Hyde. I’m not a fan of Shepard and Slayton. Oh having Saquon on the team from day 1 will only help.
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It wouldn't shock me to see him improve, with improved weapons. He had, I believe, the 30-32nd ranked ADOT last year. Not sure if it’s him not taking chances, the lack of passing weapons, or a bit of a combination. If Daniel Jones has a "great season" I would definitely be shocked though.
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The other factor is Daboll. If he can do anything remotely close to what he did with Josh Allen, it’s wheels up.
 
Qammy said:
I think Jones Passing numbers are going to be way up this year ... 30 TDs and 4000 yds not out of the question. Rushing will likely be down 500 yds 5 TDs
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I have Jones rostered on a value contract in a keeper league... and agree 100% on the natural rushing yard decline this season. Along with better passing and overall Giants offensive efficiency. I think last year was his ceiling for rushing which was driven out of necessity as others have already pointed out. And expect (hope) he will take a step forward throwing the ball with Waller in the fold and another year in Daboll's offense.

And while I also expect improvement on the passing side... I'd bet my mortgage on the under for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's passing. But I hope you are right.
 
J Giles Band said:
Qammy said:
I think Jones Passing numbers are going to be way up this year ... 30 TDs and 4000 yds not out of the question. Rushing will likely be down 500 yds 5 TDs
Click to expand...
I have Jones rostered on a value contract in a keeper league... and agree 100% on the natural rushing yard decline this season. Along with better passing and overall Giants offensive efficiency. I think last year was his ceiling for rushing which was driven out of necessity as others have already pointed out. And expect (hope) he will take a step forward throwing the ball with Waller in the fold and another year in Daboll's offense.

And while I also expect improvement on the passing side... I'd bet my mortgage on the under for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's passing. But I hope you are right.
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The over/under for yds is 3300 and TDs 17.5. I would say that he beats both of the #'s even in the worst case scenario if he plays 16-17 games. Last year he threw for 3200 and 15 in what was a horrible offensive situation
 
Last edited:
Qammy said:
J Giles Band said:
Qammy said:
I think Jones Passing numbers are going to be way up this year ... 30 TDs and 4000 yds not out of the question. Rushing will likely be down 500 yds 5 TDs
Click to expand...
I have Jones rostered on a value contract in a keeper league... and agree 100% on the natural rushing yard decline this season. Along with better passing and overall Giants offensive efficiency. I think last year was his ceiling for rushing which was driven out of necessity as others have already pointed out. And expect (hope) he will take a step forward throwing the ball with Waller in the fold and another year in Daboll's offense.

And while I also expect improvement on the passing side... I'd bet my mortgage on the under for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's passing. But I hope you are right.
Click to expand...
The over/under for yds is 3300 and TDs 17.5. I would say that he beats both of the #'s even in the worst case scenario if he plays 16-17 games. Last year he threw for 3200 and 15 in what was a horrible offensive situation
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Vegas expects him to beat those numbers as well, since they have to bake in missed games to the odds.
 
If he has a legit downfield target, he could tear it up. I was pleasantly surprised with how he navigated the pocket last year and how can throw with defenders in his face. He has faster Rothliesberger potential if he can get WR production
 
"From now on.....these eyes will not be blinded by the light....
From now on...what's waited 'till tomorrow starts tonight....it starts TONIGHT!...
From now on....from now ONNNNNNNN!"
 
He may not be very good but with that o-line and receiver room I doubt anyone would be very good.

The o-line, line coach, OC, Daboll, the GM & the Mara's should apologize to Jones' parents.
 
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