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QB Daniel Jones, NYG (3 Viewers)

Warren Sharp
this is wild

the easiest time to pass the ball is on 1st down

Daniel Jones ranked #48 of 48 QBs on 1st down efficiency (min 100 att in 2023)

just 30% of att were successful

NFL avg is 46%

a lot of it was sacks... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE SACKS

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

gross

even removing sacks, he was pressured a a high rate... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE ATTEMPTS UNDER PRESSURE

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

only Bailey Zappe was worse

🤢
 
Warren Sharp
this is wild

the easiest time to pass the ball is on 1st down

Daniel Jones ranked #48 of 48 QBs on 1st down efficiency (min 100 att in 2023)

just 30% of att were successful

NFL avg is 46%

a lot of it was sacks... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE SACKS

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

gross

even removing sacks, he was pressured a a high rate... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE ATTEMPTS UNDER PRESSURE

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

only Bailey Zappe was worse

🤢
I'd love to know how many were catchable balls on 1st down. I mean he easily had the worst WR core in the league last year. Just wonder how many of those were drops, wrong routes vs just uncatchable balls?
 
Warren Sharp
this is wild

the easiest time to pass the ball is on 1st down

Daniel Jones ranked #48 of 48 QBs on 1st down efficiency (min 100 att in 2023)

just 30% of att were successful

NFL avg is 46%

a lot of it was sacks... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE SACKS

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

gross

even removing sacks, he was pressured a a high rate... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE ATTEMPTS UNDER PRESSURE

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

only Bailey Zappe was worse

🤢
This is just not True ... Dont know if it's completely made up or if i'm missing something ????

2023 Advanced Splits​

PassingRushing
SplitValueCmpAttIncCmp%YdsTD1DIntRateSkYdsY/AAY/AAttYdsY/ATD1D
Down1st44652167.69407011178.215-846.35.5712655.402
2nd34511766.67233113358.75-284.62.3110686.813
3rd27391269.23236116272.29-506.14.2613604.607
4th35260.003303079.61-56.66.605132.603

Here is a link to Jones Splits in 2023 ...
 
Warren Sharp
this is wild

the easiest time to pass the ball is on 1st down

Daniel Jones ranked #48 of 48 QBs on 1st down efficiency (min 100 att in 2023)

just 30% of att were successful

NFL avg is 46%

a lot of it was sacks... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE SACKS

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

gross

even removing sacks, he was pressured a a high rate... ok...

BUT EVEN IF YOU REMOVE ATTEMPTS UNDER PRESSURE

he ranked #47 of 48 QBs

only Bailey Zappe was worse

🤢
This is just not True ... Dont know if it's completely made up or if i'm missing something ????

2023 Advanced Splits​

PassingRushing
SplitValueCmpAttIncCmp%YdsTD1DIntRateSkYdsY/AAY/AAttYdsY/ATD1D
Down1st44652167.69407011178.215-846.35.5712655.402
2nd34511766.67233113358.75-284.62.3110686.813
3rd27391269.23236116272.29-506.14.2613604.607
4th35260.003303079.61-56.66.605132.603

Here is a link to Jones Splits in 2023 ...
All Jones can do is run the play and complete the pass ... Giants were 3rd worst in the NFL YAC
 
I think both these things can be true:

1) Daniel Jones isn't a good QB.

2) The Giants have been maybe the worst team in the NFL over the last 5 years at surrounding the QB with talent.

Its why I think the Giants would be dumb to draft a QB this year. What damage are you gonna do to, let's say JJ McCarthy, if you can't block and nobody gets open? Its not like the job got easier with Barkley leaving.
 
I think both these things can be true:

1) Daniel Jones isn't a good QB.

2) The Giants have been maybe the worst team in the NFL over the last 5 years at surrounding the QB with talent.

Its why I think the Giants would be dumb to draft a QB this year. What damage are you gonna do to, let's say JJ McCarthy, if you can't block and nobody gets open? Its not like the job got easier with Barkley leaving.
Two more things that can be true.
1. Putting a rookie QB into this situation is recipe for disaster.
2. If the giants add a good player in the first this year, their chances of their draft pick being high enough to get a top QB next year decrease.

Best thing for them is to trade back. Add a 2025 1st. Best case, to Denver.
 
I think both these things can be true:

1) Daniel Jones isn't a good QB.

2) The Giants have been maybe the worst team in the NFL over the last 5 years at surrounding the QB with talent.

Its why I think the Giants would be dumb to draft a QB this year. What damage are you gonna do to, let's say JJ McCarthy, if you can't block and nobody gets open? Its not like the job got easier with Barkley leaving.
My guess is, if they take a QB this year they let that guy sit behind the vaunted Drew Lock for most of the season. Until they feel like the OL isn't going to get the kid killed.
 
Ralph Vacchiano
Giants GM Joe Schoen on QB Daniel Jones:

"When you go back and you watch the 2022 season, he was a 25-year-old player that played at a high level and won 10 games and won a playoff game. I'm still confident in Daniel, the way he’s wired, what he showed us in 2022. ...

(Schoen on Jones cont.) "... Again, did we have the best start to the season last year? Absolutely not. Anything that could have gone wrong, it seems like it did early on between injuries and some other things. I’ve still got a lot of confidence in Daniel.”
 
Jordan Raanan
The Giants say Daniel Jones participated in 7-on-7 drills. Jones and the Giants have said the expectation is he’s fully cleared for the start of training camp after tearing his ACL in November.

📸 Matt Swenson/Giants
 
I really liked Jones for fantasy going into last year, looking back at it, that seems so badly wrong. And obviously hindsight is 2020.

He was coming off 3 straight seasons with less than 20 passing touchdowns.
2022 was really boosted by his rushing. He had a career high 120 rushes, whereas he had never surpassed 64 in the past. He had 700 yards and 7 TD's. Previous bests were 423 and 2.

Now he's coming back from an ACL injury. I don't have high hopes for his rushing production this year.

He had no passing weapons. Maybe I thought Waller was going to help?

They had a terrible OL. I don't know if that was known going in or if they had injuries or what. But It was so bad. At times, watching the Giants, it felt like a high school OL going against an NFL Caliber DL. He was sacked 5 times per game. He threw under durress a lot.

I don't know how much better that is. Footballguys has the NYG OL Ranked 27th. I don't have high hopes.

The biggest win in his case is Malik Nabers. And I really like Malik Nabers. I think Nabers will have a high end WR2 to low end WR1 season due to his talent and complete lack of competition for targets. Maybe that will be the difference maker for Jones, and he'll put together a decent season. I just don't know if I can feel good about the guy.
 
Year 6 will be different?

He was top 10 2 years ago, so there's that.
Yeah, but....

2022 was really boosted by his rushing. He had a career high 120 rushes, whereas he had never surpassed 64 in the past. He had 700 yards and 7 TD's. Previous bests were 423 and 2.

Now he's coming back from an ACL injury. He has one of the worst offensive lines in football. And while that may lead to scrambles, I don't think he's going to be as quick/nimble his 1st year back.

He's never hit 3,300 passing yards.
He's had 20 or more passing touchdowns ONCE in a 5 year career.

He doesn't do enough in the passing game to be a regular starting QB. His rushing ability carried him to the one nice season he's had--and that's going to be hampered.
 
Year 6 will be different?

He was top 10 2 years ago, so there's that.
Yeah, but....

2022 was really boosted by his rushing. He had a career high 120 rushes, whereas he had never surpassed 64 in the past. He had 700 yards and 7 TD's. Previous bests were 423 and 2.

Now he's coming back from an ACL injury. He has one of the worst offensive lines in football. And while that may lead to scrambles, I don't think he's going to be as quick/nimble his 1st year back.

He's never hit 3,300 passing yards.
He's had 20 or more passing touchdowns ONCE in a 5 year career.

He doesn't do enough in the passing game to be a regular starting QB. His rushing ability carried him to the one nice season he's had--and that's going to be hampered.
He is what he is. He's got a better WR to throw to now, arguably the line has to be better b/c it was a bottom 5 all time line last year. But he's going from Saquon as a pass blocking RB and emergency dump off guy to tiny Devin Singletary and a 6th round RB in Tyrone Tracy. And even still, he had a 2:6 TD/INT ratio last year and I believe he is one of the lowest ADOT's of any QB. He just won't throw it unless his guy is wide open. Probably will be the last year as I think they can get out of that awful contract and move onto a new booger in 2025.
 
Nathan Rourke added as fourth string and asst GM spoke of him as third or fourth string.

He caught everyone's attention though by following an impressive day of practice then running gassers afterwards and then some players went back out and joined him.

I'm not saying it's Rourke (although I've been intrigued since CFL) as a starter or anything but these reports, that day...that's the impact the Giants need from a QB and what Daniel Jones lacks.

I can't even imagine first day, leaving a locker room to go workout with a scrub QB...it's so impressive.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
no. Wandale has potential, but generally a QB behind a bad line doesnt do well.

I knew the line was subpar but I didnt think they ranked dead last. thats horrible.

but that said, Jones running ability can only overcome so much. at least if he had a stud WR that could easily get open, hed have some options but he didnt even have that.

there is hope for this year, but I just dont know if the line will be improved enough to make a difference. it should be better, but there are no guarantees
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.
 
Nathan Rourke added as fourth string and asst GM spoke of him as third or fourth string.

He caught everyone's attention though by following an impressive day of practice then running gassers afterwards and then some players went back out and joined him.

I'm not saying it's Rourke (although I've been intrigued since CFL) as a starter or anything but these reports, that day...that's the impact the Giants need from a QB and what Daniel Jones lacks.

I can't even imagine first day, leaving a locker room to go workout with a scrub QB...it's so impressive.
I live in Canada and saw Rourke play. the first thing I thought is he should be in the NFL.

hes pretty good. I saw him do a lot of things Jeff Garcia was doing when he was in the CFL as well.

granted the game has changed since the days of Garcia, but I think the kid is good enough to at least be a backup QB at the NFL level. This is a nice landing spot for him because if Danny Dimes doesnt get it done, he will likely get a legitimate shot to play at some point.
 
Nathan Rourke added as fourth string and asst GM spoke of him as third or fourth string.

He caught everyone's attention though by following an impressive day of practice then running gassers afterwards and then some players went back out and joined him.

I'm not saying it's Rourke (although I've been intrigued since CFL) as a starter or anything but these reports, that day...that's the impact the Giants need from a QB and what Daniel Jones lacks.

I can't even imagine first day, leaving a locker room to go workout with a scrub QB...it's so impressive.
I live in Canada and saw Rourke play. the first thing I thought is he should be in the NFL.

hes pretty good. I saw him do a lot of things Jeff Garcia was doing when he was in the CFL as well.

granted the game has changed since the days of Garcia, but I think the kid is good enough to at least be a backup QB at the NFL level. This is a nice landing spot for him because if Danny Dimes doesnt get it done, he will likely get a legitimate shot to play at some point.
I rrrreally like him.
Guy could steal Daniel Jones' spot and be a nice story but that's only a smidge better bet than a grocery bagger doing so.
He's going to need to rock in camp and preseason and push Lock out.
Devito is adored.
Roarke is easily better but idk that that's allowed. Rare times that a third stringer is marketable, he usually sticks and Devito has something of a following.

I'm afraid of not enough practice time and playing time to get done what he needs to get done. Alot of today's camps fool fans into thinking there's ample opportunities but then they go watch n say how many guys barely practiced.
 
Daniel Jones is so bad I don't know how this thread continues. Horrible QB. Horrible contract. Horrible coaches. Horrible team around him. The fact he hasn't been ditched shows you how bad the GM is too. He is in a 'prove it' situation in year 6 ?? That time has gone and died.
 
Nathan Rourke added as fourth string and asst GM spoke of him as third or fourth string.

He caught everyone's attention though by following an impressive day of practice then running gassers afterwards and then some players went back out and joined him.

I'm not saying it's Rourke (although I've been intrigued since CFL) as a starter or anything but these reports, that day...that's the impact the Giants need from a QB and what Daniel Jones lacks.

I can't even imagine first day, leaving a locker room to go workout with a scrub QB...it's so impressive.
I live in Canada and saw Rourke play. the first thing I thought is he should be in the NFL.

hes pretty good. I saw him do a lot of things Jeff Garcia was doing when he was in the CFL as well.

granted the game has changed since the days of Garcia, but I think the kid is good enough to at least be a backup QB at the NFL level. This is a nice landing spot for him because if Danny Dimes doesnt get it done, he will likely get a legitimate shot to play at some point.
I rrrreally like him.
Guy could steal Daniel Jones' spot and be a nice story but that's only a smidge better bet than a grocery bagger doing so.
He's going to need to rock in camp and preseason and push Lock out.
Devito is adored.
Roarke is easily better but idk that that's allowed. Rare times that a third stringer is marketable, he usually sticks and Devito has something of a following.

I'm afraid of not enough practice time and playing time to get done what he needs to get done. Alot of today's camps fool fans into thinking there's ample opportunities but then they go watch n say how many guys barely practiced.
I think if he cant beat out Lock he shouldnt be here. I've seen him and I like him better than Lock. but my opinion doesnt matter here. either way neither he or Devito are starters. doesnt matter how much they love him. if he cant play well enough to start.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.

Glowinski was mediocre and his PFF grade was better than Runyan. I don't know what goes into a PFF grade but by that source, Glowinski was better.
 
Daniel Jones is so bad I don't know how this thread continues. Horrible QB. Horrible contract. Horrible coaches. Horrible team around him. The fact he hasn't been ditched shows you how bad the GM is too. He is in a 'prove it' situation in year 6 ?? That time has gone and died.

They tried to move up for a QB.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.

Glowinski was mediocre and his PFF grade was better than Runyan. I don't know what goes into a PFF grade but by that source, Glowinski was better.

60 is considered an adequate starter

IIRC Glowinski was ~ 68

EDIT

64.8 Overall
53.4 PBLK
69.6 RBLK
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.

Glowinski was mediocre and his PFF grade was better than Runyan. I don't know what goes into a PFF grade but by that source, Glowinski was better.

60 is considered an adequate starter

IIRC Glowinski was ~ 68

EDIT

64.8 Overall
53.4 PBLK
69.6 RBLK
I think we are splitting hairs, but whatever. DJ will be out after this year, probably the GM too. Start anew with another QB and GM next year when the team is picking in most likely the top 5.
 
I'm not splitting hairs, I am posting information. What you do with it is on you.

Just to put a bow on this (I was walking & looking things up on my phone earlier):
  • Glowinski played 521 snaps last season; 13 G, 6 GS. Ranked 59th out of 83 qualifying guards.
  • A full-time starter in 2022, he ranked 57th out of 84 qualifying guards.
I guess we could go with opinions vary on what mediocre means...

He's being replaced at LG by a 30 year old former 5th rounder who is on his 6th team in 8 years, and he's the projected starter. Which is not as bad as I am painting it, Eluemunor did start 31 games at OT (2022 30th out of 89, 2023 47th out of 84) for the Raiders in the last two seasons. That's been a borderline Top Ten OL the last two seasons, while the Giants have been bottom quartile (2023) and middle of the pack during the playoff run season.
 
I'm not splitting hairs, I am posting information. What you do with it is on you.

Just to put a bow on this (I was walking & looking things up on my phone earlier):
  • Glowinski played 521 snaps last season; 13 G, 6 GS. Ranked 59th out of 83 qualifying guards.
  • A full-time starter in 2022, he ranked 57th out of 84 qualifying guards.
I guess we could go with opinions vary on what mediocre means...

He's being replaced at LG by a 30 year old former 5th rounder who is on his 6th team in 8 years, and he's the projected starter. Which is not as bad as I am painting it, Eluemunor did start 31 games at OT (2022 30th out of 89, 2023 47th out of 84) for the Raiders in the last two seasons. That's been a borderline Top Ten OL the last two seasons, while the Giants have been bottom quartile (2023) and middle of the pack during the playoff run season.
Oh yeah my b. I'm just saying I guess splitting hair over "how bad" the Giants line still is/will be. Bottom 24, Bottom 28, etc. Its still gonna be a rough time and Jones is not good enough to play well behind a shaky/crappy offensive line is all I'm saying. None of these guys leaving or being added in (IMO) are enough in my mind to make any significant enough of a difference overall.
 
I'm not splitting hairs, I am posting information. What you do with it is on you.

Just to put a bow on this (I was walking & looking things up on my phone earlier):
  • Glowinski played 521 snaps last season; 13 G, 6 GS. Ranked 59th out of 83 qualifying guards.
  • A full-time starter in 2022, he ranked 57th out of 84 qualifying guards.
I guess we could go with opinions vary on what mediocre means...

He's being replaced at LG by a 30 year old former 5th rounder who is on his 6th team in 8 years, and he's the projected starter. Which is not as bad as I am painting it, Eluemunor did start 31 games at OT (2022 30th out of 89, 2023 47th out of 84) for the Raiders in the last two seasons. That's been a borderline Top Ten OL the last two seasons, while the Giants have been bottom quartile (2023) and middle of the pack during the playoff run season.
Oh yeah my b. I'm just saying I guess splitting hair over "how bad" the Giants line still is/will be. Bottom 24, Bottom 28, etc. Its still gonna be a rough time and Jones is not good enough to play well behind a shaky/crappy offensive line is all I'm saying. None of these guys leaving or being added in (IMO) are enough in my mind to make any significant enough of a difference overall.

Yeah it’s a been rough stretch of roster construction, the next duo will have their work cut out for them.

They may not win very many games but Nabers will be fun to watch.

Feel for ya, Big Blue. I have a lot of experience loving bad teams.

🦁
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.

Glowinski was mediocre and his PFF grade was better than Runyan. I don't know what goes into a PFF grade but by that source, Glowinski was better.

60 is considered an adequate starter

IIRC Glowinski was ~ 68

EDIT

64.8 Overall
53.4 PBLK
69.6 RBLK
I think we are splitting hairs, but whatever. DJ will be out after this year, probably the GM too. Start anew with another QB and GM next year when the team is picking in most likely the top 5.

I think Mara will give Schoen a shot to draft his own QB next year. I think they tried to this year but couldn't move up high enough to get one of their guys.
 
Jones has never had a good OL, and that aint changing in 2024. Any success he has is going to be rushing, I mean running for his life.
I think the Oline will be much better than the 32nd ranking that PFF gave them heading into this season ... closer to what we had in 2022 when we made the playoffs and Jones had a pretty good season.

He's never had good WRs either ... All of the WRs (except Slayton) are now from the Schoen Daboll regime ... so that can't be an excuse anymore
The Giants OL is one situation I see ripe for a potentially surprising and dramatic improvement, health notwithstanding.

But if you look at this unit, talent wise, it feels there is now enough pedigree to come together:

Andrew Thomas has emerged as one of the best LT's in the NFL
Runyan and Eluemenor were solid to above average signings this off-season while JM Schmitz is now entering Year 2 after being drafted in Rd 2 last year.

Obviously the wild card here is Neal at RT and his first two seasons have been abysmal. This is a make or break year for him, but it wasn't that long ago that Thomas was being ridiculed as being a bust.

Sam and Steve talked about the OL rankings on this week’s PFF NFL Podcast show (redundant name but that’s what they call it lol.)

One point they made, and I’ve heard others say something similar, is that for about two-thirds of the league you can make a case for “hey this line might be OK. They’ve got this former 1st rounder, they drafted player Xxx, so-and-so is a good player who has had bad luck with injuries, if these guys stay healthy and gell…” Thing is, when you look at one OL you can come away feeling OK about them.

But when you look at it across the board, you realize the teams in the bottom 3 and Top 4 have vast differences. Talent is one critical component, but equally important is year over year retention.

Also depth is a huge factor bc injuries are inevitable. Every year you’re going to have multiple games with more than one starting OL out. That’s normative.

I would also say that as far as positional coaches go, having a great OL Assistant is a massive advantage.
  • they have a good (when healthy) LT in Andrew Thomas, pretty much the lone bright spot
  • 2022 7th overall pick RT Evan Neal has been a massive disappointment (41.8 and 39.8 PFF grade), and C John Michael Schmitz looked underwhelming as a rookie (41.4)
  • adding guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and guard/tackle Jermaine Eluemunor in free agency this offseason are not difference making moves; guard Mark Glowinski, another FA signing, was mediocre in his two Giants seasons.
  • 32nd in pass blocking, 30th in run blocking last year, and they did very little to improve their personnel
  • depth is a major concern
  • new OL Assistant Coach Carmen Bricillo spent the previous 2 years with the Raiders after 2 years with the Pats; mixed bag, at best
Not great, Bob.

Glowinski was mediocre and his PFF grade was better than Runyan. I don't know what goes into a PFF grade but by that source, Glowinski was better.

60 is considered an adequate starter

IIRC Glowinski was ~ 68

EDIT

64.8 Overall
53.4 PBLK
69.6 RBLK
I never understood what was going on with Glowinski ... He was clearly better than any of the Guards they had but for some reason they seemed to hate him.
However, I beleive he is still unsigned and the giants hand competion for Runyan ... so really weird
 
I'd ditch Joe. Hard Knocks he kept mentioning upgrading the offensive line in free agency. I was not impressed at all.

But I'll give Joe some props I really want to see the episodes that focus on the draft. Because even a virgin can roll over and get lucky. In this case Malik Neighbors was a no brainer first round pick.

Moving up to get Jayden was never going to happen. No one wants Daniel Jones due to his exorbant salary. To get rid of DJ the Giants would have had to eat a lot of his salary.
 

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