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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)

I don't think the coach wants to stick with this guy, especially since they re-signed the coach. The coach isn't dumb- he's one of the better coaches in the league. He's just hamstrung with his QB due to the GM and the owner probably telling him they need to stick with him as long as possible. I think everyone knows Watson is terrible but it was terrible business in general to acquire him for what they did, but probably decent business for them to admit it's a failure and start taking your medicine now.
Yup - Stefanski just seems to be hamstrung with what the organization has given him. He was long viewed as one of the better coaches in the league and Watson is making him look bad. Of course, the defense hasn't lived up to its billing either.

He might be viewed that way but is it true?

He'll now have had 2 winning seasons out of 5. 1 playoff win in 5 years. For an offensive coach his teams have been middling in points. And while the defense gets respect, they've averaged 18th in points against over his tenure with the best result being 13th.

While you can grade him on a curve because its the Browns... what about Stefanski screams success? What QB has he developed?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing but... you go and look at his teams and they are very average.
Stefanski has made chicken salad out of chicken **** at qb, no matter who it is. The only players he couldn't work with were one armed Baker and this cancer. I blame him way more for his loyalty to Joe Woods than anything on offense.
 
They went 11-5 with Mayfield in Stefanski’s first year.

Mayfield then had a laundry list of injuries in 2021 including a torn labrum and various leg/foot injuries. Baker gutted it out as Baker does, but it showed in his play on the field and the Browns finished 8-9.

They let Baker walk and made the worst deal in NFL history for Watson. 2022, 2023 and now 2024. UGLY. Watson has to go.

I’m not sure you could take a single head coach in the league and turn the Browns into a +.500 team with Watson as the QB, especially with no Nick Chubb and especially in a division with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati.

I personally believe Stefanski is an above average, maybe great, head coach but I also think it’s fair to say the jury is still out.
 
He looks absolutely lost out there. Like he came from another planet and was asked to play QB without knowing what football was confused
 
They went 11-5 with Mayfield in Stefanski’s first year.

Mayfield then had a laundry list of injuries in 2021 including a torn labrum and various leg/foot injuries. Baker gutted it out as Baker does, but it showed in his play on the field and the Browns finished 8-9.

They let Baker walk and made the worst deal in NFL history for Watson. 2022, 2023 and now 2024. UGLY. Watson has to go.

I’m not sure you could take a single head coach in the league and turn the Browns into a +.500 team with Watson as the QB, especially with no Nick Chubb and especially in a division with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati.

I personally believe Stefanski is an above average, maybe great, head coach but I also think it’s fair to say the jury is still out.
Hypothetically, if stefanski were fired and the jags fire Pederson, that could be a good matchup. I don’t want to see it but it could be good.

If I’m stefanski I’d jump at the chance to leave.
 
He looks absolutely lost out there. Like he came from another planet and was asked to play QB without knowing what football was confused
Maybe, but I see it more as a guy who had some early success, but probably is not committed to refining his craft to be one of the great ones. And now that he's gotten a ton of guaranteed money that most regular people can't even dream of, the incentive isn't there.
 
He looks absolutely lost out there. Like he came from another planet and was asked to play QB without knowing what football was confused
Maybe, but I see it more as a guy who had some early success, but probably is not committed to refining his craft to be one of the great ones. And now that he's gotten a ton of guaranteed money that most regular people can't even dream of, the incentive isn't there.

I almost feel bad watching him. He just looks lost and a little bit sad/disinterested for sure.
 
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)

And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.

Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.

LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
 
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)

And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.

Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.

LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
Imagine Will Anderson across from Garrett.
 
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)

And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.

Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.

LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill

Amazing. Up there with the Herschel Walker trade, maybe worse for the crippling guaranteed salary attached.
 
He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.

I saw that too, I think he made it to 0-27 before converting on the 28th time.

Also saw that Flacco had 300+ yard passing games in 5 of his 6 starts with the Browns. Watson is now 0 for 18. Also can only imagine how good they Browns could be if they had stuck with Mayfield and were able to use those draft picks, but nothing is guaranteed there.

They need to just take the cap hit ASAP (I'm assuming next year but not sure how that stuff works) and play a year with everyone on league minimum deals to reset and start over, whatever they need to do to get through the cap hit as soon as possible, but with the way current management is acting I'm not sure that is going to happen unless they are forced out.
 
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He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.

I saw that too, I think he made it to 0-27 before converting on the 28th time.

Also saw that Flacco had 300+ yard passing games in 5 of his 6 starts with the Browns. Watson is now 0 for 18. Also can only imagine how good they Browns could be if they had stuck with Mayfield and were able to use those draft picks, but nothing is guaranteed there.

They need to just take the cap hit ASAP (I'm assuming next year but not sure how that stuff works) and play a year with everyone on league minimum deals to reset and start over, whatever they need to do to get through the cap hit as soon as possible, but with the way current management is acting I'm not sure that is going to happen unless they are forced out.
Clev. fans should just simply revolt. bench this guy already. Owner made a big mistake. admit it & move on. ego is probably too big though. Watson is horrible.
 
He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.

I saw that too, I think he made it to 0-27 before converting on the 28th time.

Also saw that Flacco had 300+ yard passing games in 5 of his 6 starts with the Browns. Watson is now 0 for 18. Also can only imagine how good they Browns could be if they had stuck with Mayfield and were able to use those draft picks, but nothing is guaranteed there.

They need to just take the cap hit ASAP (I'm assuming next year but not sure how that stuff works) and play a year with everyone on league minimum deals to reset and start over, whatever they need to do to get through the cap hit as soon as possible, but with the way current management is acting I'm not sure that is going to happen unless they are forced out.
Clev. fans should just simply revolt. bench this guy already. Owner made a big mistake. admit it & move on. ego is probably too big though. Watson is horrible.
You'll see that about 1:15 Sunday afternoon
 
Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
 
Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
I was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.
Cleveland has the 4th worst attendance on average, but 18th for home, 3rd worst as visitor. Although I’m not sure if opponents are the key difference.
If browns fans keep attending, they’re more likely to keep rolling the garbage out.
 
Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
I was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.
Cleveland has the 4th worst attendance on average, but 18th for home, 3rd worst as visitor. Although I’m not sure if opponents are the key difference.
If browns fans keep attending, they’re more likely to keep rolling the garbage out.
Given that its Cleveland, maybe this is some kind of crazy major league plot to move the team
 
Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
I was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.
Cleveland has the 4th worst attendance on average, but 18th for home, 3rd worst as visitor. Although I’m not sure if opponents are the key difference.
If browns fans keep attending, they’re more likely to keep rolling the garbage out.
Given that its Cleveland, maybe this is some kind of crazy major league plot to move the team
I’m to the point where I don’t care if they move the team to another city and flatten the stadium.
 
$45M guaranteed this year.
$45M guaranteed next year.

He will remain the starting QB. It’s remarkable how hosed the Browns are as an organization.
 
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)

And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.

Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.

LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill

Amazing. Up there with the Herschel Walker trade, maybe worse for the crippling guaranteed salary attached.


The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered. Then add the guaranteed salary upfront and this is definitely the worst trade in NFL history.

I believe there is a way to push the entire cap hit into next year. It's almost what they have to do. Stick $130M or so as a cap hit in 2025-2026 and get out of the problem they created.
 
The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered. Then add the guaranteed salary upfront and this is definitely the worst trade in NFL history.

I believe there is a way to push the entire cap hit into next year. It's almost what they have to do. Stick $130M or so as a cap hit in 2025-2026 and get out of the problem they created.
I don't think you're right. As is, the team is projected right about at the cap. Rounding up (rookies), the team needs to create ~$50m in cap space to oust him. Given the rest of the contracts on the roster, that's going to be a very tall order. Trading Newsome ($13.4m) and cutting / maybe trading Conklin ($11.7m) become musts. Problem is nobody else on the roster can be cut / traded and net > $2m in cap savings. The only restructure move they have is converting Ward's base into a bonus / use void years, which could save ~$10m, then they'd still need to find another ~$15m.

Since so many contracts expire after 2025, I think the more likely scenario is one last hurrah...with DTR. Newsome and Conklin still need to go, but then that leaves...

QB- DTR / tell Deshaun to stay home
RB- Ford / Strong
WR- Jeudy / Tillman / Thrash
TE- Njoku / veteran
LT- 1st rd pick
LG- Teller
C- Pocic
RG- Bitonio
RT- D Jones

DE- Garrett / Wright / whoever between Z Smith and Oko doesn't get traded in a couple weeks / McGuire
DT- Tomlinson / Hall / Harris
LB- JOK / Hicks
CB- Ward / Emerson / Mitchell
S- Delpit / Thornhill / Hickman


1st rd pick is obviously an estimate. Since the ceiling for that group is probably a backdoor into the playoffs then early exit (with obviously potential for much, much worse) 2026 then becomes the year of pain. And what's left?

QB- DTR / ask Deshaun why he hasn't sold his house
RB- :shrug:
WR- Jeudy / Tillman / Thrash
LT- 1st rd pick
LG- Zinter
C- :shrug:
RG- :shrug:
RT- D Jones

DE- Garrett / McGuire
DT- Tomlinson / Hall
LB- JOK
CB- Ward / Mitchell
S- Delpit


Now, I didn't capture any 2025 picks outside of the LT up there, just demonstrating how many contracts expire after 2025. This team's gonna be gutted. I'd expect some solids to be delivered to the vets on D, trading them elsewhere to a more competitive team. I think this is the start of the next expansion era though. Not 2025. The math / contract structures just doesn't work.
 
The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered.
Other teams were in line to pay what the Browns did in trade comp but Watson nixed them because of the contract that Cleveland was willing to give him.
 
The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered.
Other teams were in line to pay what the Browns did in trade comp but Watson nixed them because of the contract that Cleveland was willing to give him.
Right. The picks are bad enough but that contract should get everyone from the owner to the ball boy fired.
 
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)

And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.

Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.

LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill

Amazing. Up there with the Herschel Walker trade, maybe worse for the crippling guaranteed salary attached.


The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered. Then add the guaranteed salary upfront and this is definitely the worst trade in NFL history.

I believe there is a way to push the entire cap hit into next year. It's almost what they have to do. Stick $130M or so as a cap hit in 2025-2026 and get out of the problem they created.

They were not bidding against themselves, they were actually out of the running for Watson two days before the trade. It was only them making the fully guaranteed contract play that got Watson to waive his No Trade Clause and chose the Browns. ATL, CAR, and NO were all bidding for him.
 
Talent doesn't evaporate. This downfall is all mental feeding into the physical. I can't imagine what has been going through Watson's mind the last 3-4 years. He went from darling wonderboy to public enemy number one in the blink of an eye. Football is meaningless when you aren't happy on the football field, and it's more job than passion.

I bet on a bounceback. It's looking less and less likely it's going to happen. Benching Watson is admitting they made a mistake. Cleveland's egos are outweighing rational thinking.
 
Talent doesn't evaporate. This downfall is all mental feeding into the physical. I can't imagine what has been going through Watson's mind the last 3-4 years. He went from darling wonderboy to public enemy number one in the blink of an eye. Football is meaningless when you aren't happy on the football field, and it's more job than passion.

I bet on a bounceback. It's looking less and less likely it's going to happen. Benching Watson is admitting they made a mistake. Cleveland's egos are outweighing rational thinking.

It wasn't an overnight thing here in Houston. When he demanded a trade in 2020 it definitely pissed off the fan base and he was no longer the darling wonder boy. Then in 2021 the allegations came flooding through. Still amazed the Browns met all Casserio and Watson's demands in 2022. Extremely grateful for Haslam and co 🙏
 
Talent doesn't evaporate. This downfall is all mental feeding into the physical. I can't imagine what has been going through Watson's mind the last 3-4 years. He went from darling wonderboy to public enemy number one in the blink of an eye. Football is meaningless when you aren't happy on the football field, and it's more job than passion.

I bet on a bounceback. It's looking less and less likely it's going to happen. Benching Watson is admitting they made a mistake. Cleveland's egos are outweighing rational thinking.

CLE needs to trade all of their defensive pieces away. Then Watson can recapture his glory days of 20-pt 4th qtr garbage time stats.
 
They were not bidding against themselves, they were actually out of the running for Watson two days before the trade. It was only them making the fully guaranteed contract play that got Watson to waive his No Trade Clause and chose the Browns. ATL, CAR, and NO were all bidding for him.
Right. It was a desperation play that most rational people called a mistake at the time. To guarantee that money to any player takes a leap of faith. To guarantee it to him after not only the allegations but his earlier drama in Houston was just dumb.
 

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