Stefanski has made chicken salad out of chicken **** at qb, no matter who it is. The only players he couldn't work with were one armed Baker and this cancer. I blame him way more for his loyalty to Joe Woods than anything on offense.Yup - Stefanski just seems to be hamstrung with what the organization has given him. He was long viewed as one of the better coaches in the league and Watson is making him look bad. Of course, the defense hasn't lived up to its billing either.I don't think the coach wants to stick with this guy, especially since they re-signed the coach. The coach isn't dumb- he's one of the better coaches in the league. He's just hamstrung with his QB due to the GM and the owner probably telling him they need to stick with him as long as possible. I think everyone knows Watson is terrible but it was terrible business in general to acquire him for what they did, but probably decent business for them to admit it's a failure and start taking your medicine now.
He might be viewed that way but is it true?
He'll now have had 2 winning seasons out of 5. 1 playoff win in 5 years. For an offensive coach his teams have been middling in points. And while the defense gets respect, they've averaged 18th in points against over his tenure with the best result being 13th.
While you can grade him on a curve because its the Browns... what about Stefanski screams success? What QB has he developed?
I'm not necessarily disagreeing but... you go and look at his teams and they are very average.
Hypothetically, if stefanski were fired and the jags fire Pederson, that could be a good matchup. I don’t want to see it but it could be good.They went 11-5 with Mayfield in Stefanski’s first year.
Mayfield then had a laundry list of injuries in 2021 including a torn labrum and various leg/foot injuries. Baker gutted it out as Baker does, but it showed in his play on the field and the Browns finished 8-9.
They let Baker walk and made the worst deal in NFL history for Watson. 2022, 2023 and now 2024. UGLY. Watson has to go.
I’m not sure you could take a single head coach in the league and turn the Browns into a +.500 team with Watson as the QB, especially with no Nick Chubb and especially in a division with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati.
I personally believe Stefanski is an above average, maybe great, head coach but I also think it’s fair to say the jury is still out.
Maybe, but I see it more as a guy who had some early success, but probably is not committed to refining his craft to be one of the great ones. And now that he's gotten a ton of guaranteed money that most regular people can't even dream of, the incentive isn't there.He looks absolutely lost out there. Like he came from another planet and was asked to play QB without knowing what football was confused
Maybe, but I see it more as a guy who had some early success, but probably is not committed to refining his craft to be one of the great ones. And now that he's gotten a ton of guaranteed money that most regular people can't even dream of, the incentive isn't there.He looks absolutely lost out there. Like he came from another planet and was asked to play QB without knowing what football was confused
Great analogy. Has to be right? Only Simmons never cost a team all those draft picks.@Capella - is Deshaun the Ben Simmons of the NFL?
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)
And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.
Imagine Will Anderson across from Garrett.Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)
And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.
Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.
LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)
And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.
Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.
LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.
This is propaganda. There is no reason to believe it.
Clev. fans should just simply revolt. bench this guy already. Owner made a big mistake. admit it & move on. ego is probably too big though. Watson is horrible.He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.
I saw that too, I think he made it to 0-27 before converting on the 28th time.
Also saw that Flacco had 300+ yard passing games in 5 of his 6 starts with the Browns. Watson is now 0 for 18. Also can only imagine how good they Browns could be if they had stuck with Mayfield and were able to use those draft picks, but nothing is guaranteed there.
They need to just take the cap hit ASAP (I'm assuming next year but not sure how that stuff works) and play a year with everyone on league minimum deals to reset and start over, whatever they need to do to get through the cap hit as soon as possible, but with the way current management is acting I'm not sure that is going to happen unless they are forced out.
They know this isn’t his decision.How has the coach not lost rhe locker room? Or maybe he already has
You'll see that about 1:15 Sunday afternoonClev. fans should just simply revolt. bench this guy already. Owner made a big mistake. admit it & move on. ego is probably too big though. Watson is horrible.He was 0-25 on 3rd down until he completed one yesterday. Just saw that on IG and thought it was fake news.
I saw that too, I think he made it to 0-27 before converting on the 28th time.
Also saw that Flacco had 300+ yard passing games in 5 of his 6 starts with the Browns. Watson is now 0 for 18. Also can only imagine how good they Browns could be if they had stuck with Mayfield and were able to use those draft picks, but nothing is guaranteed there.
They need to just take the cap hit ASAP (I'm assuming next year but not sure how that stuff works) and play a year with everyone on league minimum deals to reset and start over, whatever they need to do to get through the cap hit as soon as possible, but with the way current management is acting I'm not sure that is going to happen unless they are forced out.
I think even on the Browns, he is still behind Peyton Hillis and Lee Suggs.Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
I was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
I think even on the Browns, he is still behind Peyton Hillis and Lee Suggs.Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
Given that its Cleveland, maybe this is some kind of crazy major league plot to move the teamI was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
Cleveland has the 4th worst attendance on average, but 18th for home, 3rd worst as visitor. Although I’m not sure if opponents are the key difference.
If browns fans keep attending, they’re more likely to keep rolling the garbage out.
I’m to the point where I don’t care if they move the team to another city and flatten the stadium.Given that its Cleveland, maybe this is some kind of crazy major league plot to move the teamI was wondering about ticket sales, although it’s early.Somewhat off topic but I've been curious on his jersey sales. He's gotta be the worst selling big name QB in the league, right? (rape, performance, browns, etc)
Cleveland has the 4th worst attendance on average, but 18th for home, 3rd worst as visitor. Although I’m not sure if opponents are the key difference.
If browns fans keep attending, they’re more likely to keep rolling the garbage out.
Watson is totally on brand for the Factory of Sadness.I’m to the point where I don’t care if they move the team to another city and flatten the stadium.
Can’t really get hosed when you do it to yourself, but yeah, they’re in deep.$45M guaranteed this year.
$45M guaranteed next year.
He will remain the starting QB. It’s remarkable how hosed the Browns are as an organization.
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)
And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.
Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.
LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
Amazing. Up there with the Herschel Walker trade, maybe worse for the crippling guaranteed salary attached.
Since the Browns kept kicking the salary cap can into future seasons, they would take a $200M cap hit if Watson were no longer on the roster.$45M guaranteed this year.
$45M guaranteed next year.
He will remain the starting QB. It’s remarkable how hosed the Browns are as an organization.
They'd wait until after June 1, which lowers this to $119MSince the Browns kept kicking the salary cap can into future seasons, they would take a $200M cap hit if Watson were no longer on the roster.$45M guaranteed this year.
$45M guaranteed next year.
He will remain the starting QB. It’s remarkable how hosed the Browns are as an organization.
ONLY 199M!!!They'd wait until after June 1, which lowers this to $119MSince the Browns kept kicking the salary cap can into future seasons, they would take a $200M cap hit if Watson were no longer on the roster.$45M guaranteed this year.
$45M guaranteed next year.
He will remain the starting QB. It’s remarkable how hosed the Browns are as an organization.
That's the problem - if I tried to trade him to one of my league mates, it would basically have to be for free.FREE AMARI COOPER!
I put him on the block looking for a “lesser WR + LB2 type”That's the problem - if I tried to trade him to one of my league mates, it would basically have to be for free.FREE AMARI COOPER!
I don't think you're right. As is, the team is projected right about at the cap. Rounding up (rookies), the team needs to create ~$50m in cap space to oust him. Given the rest of the contracts on the roster, that's going to be a very tall order. Trading Newsome ($13.4m) and cutting / maybe trading Conklin ($11.7m) become musts. Problem is nobody else on the roster can be cut / traded and net > $2m in cap savings. The only restructure move they have is converting Ward's base into a bonus / use void years, which could save ~$10m, then they'd still need to find another ~$15m.The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered. Then add the guaranteed salary upfront and this is definitely the worst trade in NFL history.
I believe there is a way to push the entire cap hit into next year. It's almost what they have to do. Stick $130M or so as a cap hit in 2025-2026 and get out of the problem they created.
Other teams were in line to pay what the Browns did in trade comp but Watson nixed them because of the contract that Cleveland was willing to give him.The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered.
Right. The picks are bad enough but that contract should get everyone from the owner to the ball boy fired.Other teams were in line to pay what the Browns did in trade comp but Watson nixed them because of the contract that Cleveland was willing to give him.The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered.
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2022 (13th)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2022 (104th)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2023 (12th)
Cleveland's third-round pick in 2023 (73rd)
Cleveland's first-round pick in 2024 (23rd)
Cleveland's fourth-round pick in 2024 (123rd)
And traded current NFL TD leader Baker Mayfield.
Below are the players that the Browns picks at least in some way were used in their acquisition. Which could be taking them directly, or trading a Browns pick for additional picks that were used directly, or included in other trades that brought the player.
LG Kenyon Green
WR John Metchie
LB Christian Harris
RB Dameon Pierce
DE Will Anderson Jr.
WR Tank Dell
WR Stefon Diggs
CB Kwame Lassiter
S Calen Bullock
TE Cade Stover
LB Jamal Hill
Amazing. Up there with the Herschel Walker trade, maybe worse for the crippling guaranteed salary attached.
The thing about the Watson trade that makes it worse than the Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trades, is that CLE was likely bidding against themselves. The price other teams were willing to pay was minuscule in comparison to what CLE offered. Then add the guaranteed salary upfront and this is definitely the worst trade in NFL history.
I believe there is a way to push the entire cap hit into next year. It's almost what they have to do. Stick $130M or so as a cap hit in 2025-2026 and get out of the problem they created.
Talent doesn't evaporate. This downfall is all mental feeding into the physical. I can't imagine what has been going through Watson's mind the last 3-4 years. He went from darling wonderboy to public enemy number one in the blink of an eye. Football is meaningless when you aren't happy on the football field, and it's more job than passion.
I bet on a bounceback. It's looking less and less likely it's going to happen. Benching Watson is admitting they made a mistake. Cleveland's egos are outweighing rational thinking.
Talent doesn't evaporate. This downfall is all mental feeding into the physical. I can't imagine what has been going through Watson's mind the last 3-4 years. He went from darling wonderboy to public enemy number one in the blink of an eye. Football is meaningless when you aren't happy on the football field, and it's more job than passion.
I bet on a bounceback. It's looking less and less likely it's going to happen. Benching Watson is admitting they made a mistake. Cleveland's egos are outweighing rational thinking.
Right. It was a desperation play that most rational people called a mistake at the time. To guarantee that money to any player takes a leap of faith. To guarantee it to him after not only the allegations but his earlier drama in Houston was just dumb.They were not bidding against themselves, they were actually out of the running for Watson two days before the trade. It was only them making the fully guaranteed contract play that got Watson to waive his No Trade Clause and chose the Browns. ATL, CAR, and NO were all bidding for him.