ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
That's a good point. It must be tough for those women watching coverage tonight of the trade and his contract.
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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (7 Viewers)
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Anyone who is a fan of the NFL but "de-fan" a certain team because of a player they sign is about as hypocritical as it gets.
Theres lots of horrible people in the NFL yet here we all are, loving every minute of the league.
Theres lots of horrible people in the NFL yet here we all are, loving every minute of the league.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's also funny to lay blame on the NFL and not like, ya know, our justice system.
If you have a problem with Watson (which we all do) take it up with them. Not the NFL, not the Browns, not the other players wishing Watson well, not free agents signing to play with Watson.
As far as I am concerned as a fan, if a player is legally allowed to play, they should be able to play.
If you have a problem with Watson (which we all do) take it up with them. Not the NFL, not the Browns, not the other players wishing Watson well, not free agents signing to play with Watson.
As far as I am concerned as a fan, if a player is legally allowed to play, they should be able to play.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Cheering for some cops seems worse, I really don't see how football has anymore bad people than average.
And football is the most boring sport in north america. I don't watch more than 2 games a year anymore. It's all just hype and commercials. The actual product sucks.
Capella
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
irish eyes
Footballguy
Cleveland just set their franchise back probably another 15 to 20 years. This is one of the worst trades in history. Dummies guarantee the entire contract, give up 3 ones, and he'll probably get suspended. Lololol
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I wouldn't do what you describe but I still disagree. We're all inconsistent, selective in our outrage, and yes, hypocritical.
Most of us feel like we feel and then work backward to rationalize our instinctive reactions. If someone decides they can't support the Browns because of this, who am I to tell them they're wrong? If they want to show up to the Dawg Pound and cheer him on, same deal. (Only place I'd draw the line is if their tribalism led them to bad mouth Watson's accusers or downplay the issue of sexual assault).
Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It's not just about what Watson did, it's about how he turned this into an episode of The Bachelor. And then got a record contract.
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His grumbling 1st started the first week of January last year when they hired Caserio. It was reported they had planned to hold him leading up to the 2021 NFL draft to maximize his trade price after he officially demanded to be traded on January 28th after Culley was hired as head coach (but who knows for sure if that’s true.) News of the civil lawsuit broke on March 16th. Maybe they knew a little bit ahead of time but I doubt it was months. Things tend to leak fast, especially with Watson’s name already in the news for wanting out. But we have no way to know for sure.
GregR
Footballguy
To add to that, even if they knew something it was just a single lawsuit that they'd have known about. The lawsuit went public in March and then the other 21 women came forward in a big MeToo fashion. Even Tony Buzbee didn't know it was going to blow up like that.
If people had known, surely Watson would have settled with the first woman to stop it all.
If people had known, surely Watson would have settled with the first woman to stop it all.
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Capella
Footballguy
I just read that a Browns blog that has been around for 10 years and had 19,000 followers shut down tonight because of the trade. Accepting what he did in the name of fandom is a lot.
I understand why the Browns did it from a football perspective but it’s a lot. Say they win their first super bowl and he’s the face of it…that would diminish it imo.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
How does not supporting someone who is a horrible person, and therefore any team that employs such a person, make anyone hypocritical? I'm not following your thought line at all.
Back to fantasy for a second. What do people this does for Watson's fantasy value? Good OL but he had good protection his last year in Houston, last year he played. Got probably best running game and defense he's played with but that does not help a lot for fantasy and he's got one weapon of note in passing game as of now he's expensive on a contract with no guarantees, in other words year to year. And he went from 9 games guaranteed in a dome to zero and likely worse weather late in the year.
I've been mainly focused on the impact that Watson would have on his supporting cast, only recently have I stepped back and thought as of right now this is not looking like the most outstanding destination for fantasy success. He's great so he'll be ok, but for sure I'm bracing for a regression.
Tell me how I'm wrong.
I've been mainly focused on the impact that Watson would have on his supporting cast, only recently have I stepped back and thought as of right now this is not looking like the most outstanding destination for fantasy success. He's great so he'll be ok, but for sure I'm bracing for a regression.
Tell me how I'm wrong.
Possibly a bit of a regression. Have to bake in the likely scenario that he misses some games due to suspension too.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Fantasy predictions look clearer for 2023. For 2022, with a year off and a potential suspension, he'll either be a steal or a bust no matter where he's taken. It just boils down to how much a risk someone wants to take. Local media will gush over how he looks like he hasn't missed a snap. But really, can you be in game shape without playing or practicing for a full year? How long will it take to get back into a rhythm if he stays healthy?
Once all that's behind him, I like the prospects. Running game looks good, and he'll attract free agents. He won't lack for pass-catchers.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I don't know his splits, how he has played in cold weather VS. Dome/good weather compared to others but I'm sure 'someone' must have that info and can share.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
This trade is really for two seasons from now, when Watson gets a whole season and the Browns can lure in a big ticket fa to hopefully add to they've got.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
There has NEVER been an NFL franchise QB in his prime who has been traded, the only thing 'close' was Jay Cutler. Per Watson/Mayfield.
DeShaun is 26 years old coming off his a season he sat for a year, his previous season he had his best season ever.
Baker Mayfield is 26 and coming off shoulder surgery, coming off his worst season ever.
Can't find the tweet but saw that in NFL history Watson has thrown for 4th most TDs in the first four seasons and he missed a large portion with an ACL injury. He will face a suspension and there will be an ongoing PR hit but he brings true elite talent.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Cleveland put themselves in a position to contend for Superbowl (s). That's all ang GM can do. That contract will squeeze their cap space over the next 5 years, sure, but if it brings a Superbowl to Cleveland then it will be hailed as a genius move. Speaking of caps, I've become more and more convinced that the cap is a sham anyway. See the Saints over the past few years and now the Rams. Used to be that all these signings had ramifications. Now, the (legal) manipulation makes the concept of cap hell null and void.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
You’re probably right, but it will be interesting to watch the Browns work the cap after this year while they try to bring receivers in.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I’m contemplating a few deals in a SF without trading for pennies on the dollar. I figure maybe he’s on par value wise with Dak?
I see his fantasy as pretty analogous to his 2nd and 3rd seasons with the Texans. He and Baker averaged a little more than 500 passing attempts during the same time periods, Watson had a better completion % and landed at about 330ish completions and full yard more per attempt. In the mid-20’s for passing TD’s as both teams had heavy rushing offensive philosophies. Biggest difference is in rushing, Watson averages 450ish rushing per year and 5 TD’s.
Watson was QB5 both of those seasons despite middle of the road passing numbers thanks to his legs. His attempts and yardage blew up his last active season, but could be argued it’s because the team fell apart after most of the surrounding talent disappeared.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
so is the outrage because ANY team signed him, or just the browns? or is it the amount of money?
why wasnt there any outrage that houston didnt flat out cut him (and ocntinued paying him), but outrage that the browns signed him?
im having trouble following the lines here... any team that signed him was likely giving him a new deal, and the browns HAD to for cap reasons.
why wasnt there any outrage that houston didnt flat out cut him (and ocntinued paying him), but outrage that the browns signed him?
im having trouble following the lines here... any team that signed him was likely giving him a new deal, and the browns HAD to for cap reasons.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I love when people label simple statements that they’ll root against a team/player as “outrage”.
Bottom line is that Watson is a super creep so I don’t want to root for him to succeed and the Browns are extremely unlikeable organization for many reasons - including how their fans reacted after the smallest bit of success and how they defended another loser in Myles Garrett after an assault.
I have zero outrage over this. I just hope it crashes and burns because part of sports is rooting against players/teams for whatever reason you want to.
Bottom line is that Watson is a super creep so I don’t want to root for him to succeed and the Browns are extremely unlikeable organization for many reasons - including how their fans reacted after the smallest bit of success and how they defended another loser in Myles Garrett after an assault.
I have zero outrage over this. I just hope it crashes and burns because part of sports is rooting against players/teams for whatever reason you want to.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Also this whole process about how Watson went about his “tour” to chose his next team when he should be hanging his head a bit in shame was too much to take for some people in the same way people resented “The Decision”.
I actually find Browns fans “faux shock” about how people are perceiving this odd. It seems pretty simple.
I actually find Browns fans “faux shock” about how people are perceiving this odd. It seems pretty simple.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
this isnt outrage, this is rooting against another franchise. i dont care about this.
im talking about outrage. which there is plenty of.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
let me simplify my point here....
was there outrage that the Texans paid watson 10s of millions, to sit at home all last season? imo, no. there was some dissatisfcation, but no outrage. and from very few ppl.
now, there's outrage. what's the outrage threshold? 11m? 12m? 20m? know where it should be? anything above $0, if youre truly sickened by the guy.
outage after he gets traded, yet in essence, nothing has actually changed. till getting 10s of millions, just somewhere else.
was there outrage that the Texans paid watson 10s of millions, to sit at home all last season? imo, no. there was some dissatisfcation, but no outrage. and from very few ppl.
now, there's outrage. what's the outrage threshold? 11m? 12m? 20m? know where it should be? anything above $0, if youre truly sickened by the guy.
outage after he gets traded, yet in essence, nothing has actually changed. till getting 10s of millions, just somewhere else.
Shawnky
Footballguy
Not seeing outrage and I’m not rooting against the Browns. I just don’t think that contract was a good idea and there could be some serious backlash from it.
DropKick
Footballguy
Only thing I find a bit slimy that the Browns did was modifying his base salary this year to be so low that any suspension is a laugh and zero consequence for Watson.
Giving him a massive contract is a pretty understandable carrot to get him to choose them over the other teams involved. It may backfire on them, but I think only if he can’t stay healthy for some reason. No reason to think that, his injuries in Houston were due to our atrocious offensive line. Taking 60 sacks in a season puts a lot of hurt on your body.
Giving him a massive contract is a pretty understandable carrot to get him to choose them over the other teams involved. It may backfire on them, but I think only if he can’t stay healthy for some reason. No reason to think that, his injuries in Houston were due to our atrocious offensive line. Taking 60 sacks in a season puts a lot of hurt on your body.
Capella
Footballguy
I had said if the Bucs got him (before Brady came back obvs) that I would understand it from a football perspective but couldn’t root for him personally.
However, what the Browns and Watson did with the first year of his contract is so slimy and gross that I don’t know…I probably wouldn’t turn my back on the Bucs because I am an idiot fan who can’t do so, but that would just feel so so gross. I’m so glad they weren’t involved.
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Capella
Footballguy
The threshold was intentionally structuring the contract so that he wouldn’t have any kind of financial loss in year 1. The amount is sort of irrelevant, it’s the act.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t think you actually read what he said you’re too into your “faux shock” schtick.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
i hope the league comes down hard on the browns for structuring his contract in a completely legal manner.
it's either he should be an nfl player, or not. that's how simple it is. the amounts, the structures etc mean nothing to me... if he's a PoS, then cut him from the league. suspend indefinitely. whatever. but they're not.
so, he's going to be treated and paid like any other star player. it's a game and it's a business. we're all part of it.
it's either he should be an nfl player, or not. that's how simple it is. the amounts, the structures etc mean nothing to me... if he's a PoS, then cut him from the league. suspend indefinitely. whatever. but they're not.
so, he's going to be treated and paid like any other star player. it's a game and it's a business. we're all part of it.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I doubt it, after Ward gets paid the available cap won't go very far. May be more likely to attract ring chasers, but those aren't wave 1 types.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
As I said in the Steelers thread I may come to regret the Browns trading for Watson but right now I think it was a dumb thing to do.
If the Browns win a Super Bowl I guess it will have been worth it but it’s a very risky move for probably the most unlikable player in the NFL.
As dire as the Steelers QB situation is at the moment I am glad they didn’t get into the Watson sweepstakes.
If the Browns win a Super Bowl I guess it will have been worth it but it’s a very risky move for probably the most unlikable player in the NFL.
As dire as the Steelers QB situation is at the moment I am glad they didn’t get into the Watson sweepstakes.
DropKick
Footballguy
This is all too true.
A move the Browns almost had to make if they didn't believe Baker could bring them a championship.
What do people think about the landing spot, from a fantasy perspective? For selfish reasons, I was hoping for Carolina, Atlanta or New Orleans. Cleveland was my last choice. But, it does add to what has already become a compelling division. AFC, in general, will be wide open for the foreseeable future.
