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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)

Soulfly3 said:
Grahamburn said:
I don't think it's some new benchmark for other QB's.  
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I bet the QBs coming due for a renewal think it is.
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OfCourse the other QBs are looking for Watson guaranteed money.

Lamar Jackson took notice.

--------------

Lamar Jackson@Lj_era8

Congratulations broski @deshaunwatson

Overtime@overtime

DESHAUN TO THE BROWNS (per @AdamSchefter)

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IG: JosinaAnderson@JosinaAnderson

No one could refuse that offer and the #Browns owner gave general manager Andrew Berry the economic authority needed to get it done in Cleveland. #FullyGuaranteed

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Spotrac@spotrac

A nice dinner at Mabel’s (probably) in Cleveland didn’t secure this trade. Baker Mayfield’s demands didn’t secure this trade.

The Browns being the “best fit” didn’t secure this trade.

Money did.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
OK you win on a technicality. Yes, the trade return on a player does reflect how the market views him. If a team traded the Chiefs every one of their draft picks for the next 10 years for Mahomes, it would be accurate to call him overrated.

I was using the more common understanding of the term: not as good as people think
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No, you're right.  No reason for me to try to "gotcha" you.  In any case, when I watch Watson I don't think he's as good as people think.  That's not to say I think he's bad, or can't improve.

 
menobrown said:
Does anyone know if/when the Browns are having their press conference to introduce Watson? I don''t normally watch those things, this one could be interesting.
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So I guess I got my answer and no press conference,  they are not ready for that heat yet and just went with prepared statement route. Probably for the best.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Also, what odds can I get on this exact scenario playing out in the coming days: the Browns solemnly inform us at the intro press conference that they did their due diligence on Watson before agreeing to the trade. Then a reporter starts calling up Watson's accusers and learns not a single one of them was contacted.
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Man, I hate to be right

(To be fair, we don’t know for certain that they didn’t speak to any of the women. But their statements only mention talking to Watson.)

 
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zed2283 said:
Seems like a big mistake for Cleveland, just speaking football-wise.  Watson is overrated as a real QB, and certainly not worth the total price (traded picks, contract, etc.).
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I don't think he is overrated. He's won at every level including this one. He's a sure thing. Aside from the legal issues, he is probably worth more than the Browns paid.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
He wasn't going to get traded under his previous contract.  Houston had 3 teams they had already accepted trade compensation leaving the 'decision' up to Watson to choose which team and he based his decision off of the contract offered.  

What people don't get is guaranteed money can ONLY be done by the owner because he/she has to be CASH RICH, in this case they'd need to have $250 million is cash sitting around, ready to place into an escrow account.  Many NFL owners are NOT cash rich and few have that sort of money available.  

The outrage with fans is based off of behavior but the outrage within NFL circles is over the precedent-setting fully guaranteed contract which will cause all sorts of headaches since players like Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are up for HUGE contract extensions and Lamar made a 'special' tweet to Watson AFTER he signed that contract so expect Lamar to demand an even bigger contract.  

Even though you want to directly link outrage of the contract to behavior, trust me, you have missed the boat on how the rest of the league's fury is directed at Jimmy Haslam for pushing the envelope with a fully guaranteed contract. 

The contract is a big headache for the league.  It will/has changed the NFL landscape and will set in motion all sorts of craziness.
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The only thing I addressed was the public's outrage, which Soulfly was talking about as if it made no sense. I explained why the reaction.

I don't know why you're bringing me into a tangent about how the owners feel, or ascribing a position to me on it.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Man, I hate to be right

(To be fair, we don’t know for certain that they didn’t speak to any of the women. But their statements only mention talking to Watson.)
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do they need to speak to the women? why? of all the 22 or so accusers, we KNOW for certain, about 12 are gold diggers heaping on the blame looking for a payout - happens all the time with cases like this..So let's summarily dismiss 12 of these stories as pure hogwash. that leaves 10 who may or may not even testify or tell their stories to a court. many of these 10 will drop the case altogether when watson's lawyers threaten counter suits for defamation and slander.. I bet at the end of the day, nothing sticks at all. it's SO funny how we've turned into a 'he's guilty!' society without giving the person their day(s) in court. remember Nick Sandmann and Kyle Rittenhouse - both innocent, neither convicted - both tried in public eyes and both are , or will be in Rittenhouse's case,  multi-millionaires from defamation lawsuits. Stop convicting people before the courts do. have we done background checks on the 22-ish accusers? the grand jury refused to indict.hmm. tells me a lot about this flim-flam case. were they expecting a class-action lawsuit? why can't we ask what types of people these 'accusers' are? why can't we doubt the accusers? why does the media insist that we believe the accusers first and foremost, and violate a persons right to a trial before anything else?? 

Watson won't be deposed, ever.. why do we ALWAYS take the "victims' " side  in BS like this? why? 

Joy Reed is about to get the absolute sheet sued out of her for slander and defamation, so is karen johnson aka whoopi goldberg. Kyle has already gone on record as saying he's going after them,  in particular, among many many others. also going after BSnbc (again) and Fake news network CNN, .and so on. Rittenhouse , legally speaking , gonna take ALL of these clowns behind the woodshed and beat them absolutely senseless, monetarily speaking.  as well he should.

stop convicting the innocent just because fake media says you should. they have a Constitutional right to have their day in court. Sorry you Millennials don't know what the Constitution is or what it stands for. Hint: it's so much more than a 1700's ship in Boston Nat'l Historic Park in Charlestown, Mass.

 
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Tanner9919 said:
do they need to speak to the women? why? of all the 22 or so accusers, we KNOW for certain, about 12 are gold diggers heaping on the blame looking for a payout - happens all the time with cases like this..So let's summarily dismiss 12 of these stories as pure hogwash. that leaves 10 who may or may not even testify or tell their stories to a court. many of these 10 will drop the case altogether when watson's lawyers threaten counter suits for defamation and slander.. I bet at the end of the day, nothing sticks at all. it's SO funny how we've turned into a 'he's guilty!' society without giving the person their day(s) in court. remember Nick Sandmann and Kyle Rittenhouse - both innocent, neither convicted - both tried in public eyes and both are , or will be in Rittenhouse's case,  multi-millionaires from defamation lawsuits. Stop convicting people before the courts do. have we done background checks on the 22-ish accusers? the grand jury refused to indict.hmm. tells me a lot about this flim-flam case. were they expecting a class-action lawsuit? why can't we ask what types of people these 'accusers' are? why can't we doubt the accusers? why does the media insist that we believe the accusers first and foremost, and violate a persons right to a trial before anything else?? 

Watson won't be deposed, ever.. why do we ALWAYS take the "victims' " side  in BS like this? why? 

Joy Reed is about to get the absolute sheet sued out of her for slander and defamation, so is karen johnson aka whoopi goldberg. Kyle has already gone on record as saying he's going after them,  in particular, among many many others. also going after BSnbc (again) and Fake news network CNN, .and so on. Rittenhouse , legally speaking , gonna take ALL of these clowns behind the woodshed and beat them absolutely senseless, monetarily speaking.  as well he should.

stop convicting the innocent just because fake media says you should. they have a Constitutional right to have their day in court. Sorry you Millennials don't know what the Constitution is or what it stands for. Hint: it's so much more than a 1700's ship in Boston Nat'l Historic Park in Charlestown, Mass.
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Show me on the doll where a feminist hurt you.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Tony Buzbe is not chasing ambulances and is not hard up for money. You may want to look him up and his list of clients (that seek him out).
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I didn't have to speak to them, I had to read that text message from the friend of Watson who warns him that people are talking, he's getting a bad reputation, etc. That was really incriminating. 

 
I think it's a little silly that there is renewed outrage because of the contract.

Everyone knew he was getting traded, and now that he actually is traded, Peter King is hyperventilating in his new column, looking for a couch to faint on. Peter King has been covering the league for 40 years or so, and knows more nasty little secrets about the players, coaches, and owners in the league than anyone. He's friendly with an owner who likes to visit the local rub'n tug, places that are staffed by trafficked humans. 

By the time I was out of short pants, I knew the NFL was like this, it has not changed. 

 
The Good Morning Football cast was UP IN ARMS after spending a solid week hyping Watson to NO, ATL, CAR (while entirely dismissing the Browns the whole time)

I guess they were ok with him getting 150M or whatever it is w one of those clubs, but are completely AGHAST at 200M+ from the Browns. 

So tired of faux rage and complete hypocrisy w nfl folks. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
@AdamSchefter

What is now thought to be the final compensation in today’s seismic trade: Browns get: Deshaun Watson and a 5th-round pick. Texans get: three first-round picks, a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick.

WHAT. A. MASTERCLASS.
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How so? There's lots of Brown fans turning it their fandom for trading for this guy. Not only that, he's probably suspended next year for a long time, which is why they reduced his base salary for 1M and signed Brissett. They alienated their only good QB in a while, saying they need an adult at QB, paid their new guy 230M guaranteed which is the highest in NFL history, and you have to deal with having a sexual predator at QB for as long as he's there. Frankly, it's pretty disgusting by the Browns and I am glad we got rid of the guy.

 
Jayded said:
As a Texans fan, the only way this’ll feel fair compensation-wise is if he gets hurt in the next few years or is suspended all next year.

What many don’t get is we Texans fans have had one franchise QB in team history. Carr was never going to be special even if the OL contributed to the fast decline, and yes Schaub had one pro bowl season, but Watson is it. 

Caserio clearly doesn’t get the hope the fan base finally got to enjoy for the 3.5 years we had him. The fans will have a VERY hard time forgiving all of management for this little in return and how long it’ll take them to again find a franchise QB. 
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It's only the second time a QB has been traded for 3 firsts. Yea, we should have gotten some players or so but all the leverage was lost when he decided not to go to Atlanta like a lot of us thought not to mention his no trade clause

 
Tanner9919 said:
stop convicting the innocent just because fake media says you should. they have a Constitutional right to have their day in court.
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One thing I've come to understand in this off-season, is I don't know as much as I thought.  My opinions are normally just guesses and are frequently wrong.

 
Soulfly3 said:
The Good Morning Football cast was UP IN ARMS after spending a solid week hyping Watson to NO, ATL, CAR (while entirely dismissing the Browns the whole time)

I guess they were ok with him getting 150M or whatever it is w one of those clubs, but are completely AGHAST at 200M+ from the Browns. 

So tired of faux rage and complete hypocrisy w nfl folks. 
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Get a box of bon bons and calm those ####.  You wanted him, you got him.  What else matters?

 
Shawnky said:
Get a box of bon bons and calm those ####.  You wanted him, you got him.  What else matters?
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Everyone on Twitter and the television is fanning themselves, I think a Cleveland fan is allowed to point out the hypocrisy. Outrage because of a new deal is silly. 

The Athletic article said 13 teams inquired about Watson, and one of the finalists were upset they didn't get the chance to match. 

 
massraider said:
Everyone on Twitter and the television is fanning themselves, I think a Cleveland fan is allowed to point out the hypocrisy. Outrage because of a new deal is silly. 
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One of the worst has been Joe Banner.

He wrote and article about a week before the trade were he predicted Watson would go to the Eagles or Carolina. In that article he threw out Cleveland as a dark horse. When Watson got traded to them he actually took a victory lap, saying he called it despite listing two other teams as the favorite.

But I'm getting off subject. He's been railing all weekend over Watson having his base adjusted. What bothers me so much about this is not even any hypocrisy it's just that the people railing on this won't step back and look at fact they did the same exact thing with Amari's contract. They just keep pushing this narrative what Cleveland  and Watson did was conspire to help him avoid suspension fees and it's sick and twisted but they won't acknowledge any team getting Watson was going to adjust his base because of cap reasons, again just like they did with Amari.

 
massraider said:
Everyone on Twitter and the television is fanning themselves, I think a Cleveland fan is allowed to point out the hypocrisy. Outrage because of a new deal is silly. 

The Athletic article said 13 teams inquired about Watson, and one of the finalists were upset they didn't get the chance to match. 
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I'm plenty outraged at the whole situation, but IMO the contract is purely incidental. The issue is that they chose to build their franchise around a guy of suspect character. Once they made that commitment, they were obviously going to have to pay him.

 
Maybe if the NFL didnt take so long to figure out what, if anything, they should do then maybe we wouldn't have this issue with the contract.

 
zeeshan2 said:
Deshaun's lawyer came out and said the Browns never contacted him nor reached out to any of the victims. It's disgusting from the Browns
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I said earlier in the thread that for some reason I tend to get more outraged by enablers of abusers than I do of the abusers themselves. That statement really set me off. It's like, "We can't say we believe him because that will make it sound like we're calling the women liars. And we also can't say that we take the allegations seriously, because then if he ends up admitting anything we'll be under pressure to live up to our words. So what if we just issued an empty statement with a bunch of mealy-mouthed euphemisms?"

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I'm plenty outraged at the whole situation, but IMO the contract is purely incidental. The issue is that they chose to build their franchise around a guy of suspect character. Once they made that commitment, they were obviously going to have to pay him.
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It's kind of obvious what we are seeing from NFL media right now. Days of breathless coverage about Who Gonna Get Watson?? And no one was expressing any outrage. Zero. He gets that deal, and everyone gets mad. It's really dumb. 

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I said earlier in the thread that for some reason I tend to get more outraged by enablers of abusers than I do of the abusers themselves. That statement really set me off. It's like, "We can't say we believe him because that will make it sound like we're calling the women liars. And we also can't say that we take the allegations seriously, because then if he ends up admitting anything we'll be under pressure to live up to our words. So what if we just issued an empty statement with a bunch of mealy-mouthed euphemisms?"
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I need to get a job doing investigations for NFL teams. 

Investigate for months, and find nothing? I would excel at that job. 

 
massraider said:
It's kind of obvious what we are seeing from NFL media right now. Days of breathless coverage about Who Gonna Get Watson?? And no one was expressing any outrage. Zero. He gets that deal, and everyone gets mad. It's really dumb. 
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This this exactly this. The entire NFL Network crew covered this and were wanking themselves about how great he'd be for NO. 

Now? What an albatross Watson is!!!

 
massraider said:
I need to get a job doing investigations for NFL teams. 

Investigate for months, and find nothing? I would excel at that job. 
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The best was when the WFT signed Reuben Foster, who had been waived after domestic abuse allegations, and said they had spoken to some of his teammates at Alabama. Reporters walked down the hallway and asked the Alabama alums, who all said they hadn't spoken to anyone in the front office. 

ETA: And by best I mean worst

 
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Soulfly3 said:
This this exactly this. The entire NFL Network crew covered this and were wanking themselves about how great he'd be for NO. 

Now? What an albatross Watson is!!!
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On the one hand, I get why you're upset. Lots of other teams were willing to do exactly what Cleveland ended up doing. On the other, well, Cleveland went ahead and did it.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I said earlier in the thread that for some reason I tend to get more outraged by enablers of abusers than I do of the abusers themselves. That statement really set me off. It's like, "We can't say we believe him because that will make it sound like we're calling the women liars. And we also can't say that we take the allegations seriously, because then if he ends up admitting anything we'll be under pressure to live up to our words. So what if we just issued an empty statement with a bunch of mealy-mouthed euphemisms?"
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FYI, if you haven't seen this video of Cleveland's PR team figuring out what to say in their statement, it's pretty damning.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I'm plenty outraged at the whole situation, but IMO the contract is purely incidental. The issue is that they chose to build their franchise around a guy of suspect character. Once they made that commitment, they were obviously going to have to pay him.
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What ticks me off about it, and I don't care about the Browns at all, but just from a logical standpoint, is that they complain about Mayfield not being an adult or whatever, but essentially questioning his character, while then giving up the world for somebody who doesn't have even 5% of Mayfield's character. 

Like, I get Watson is a better QB, but after making such noise about why Mayfield wasn't working, it feels weird to then go with Watson. Unless they think 22 sexual misconduct allegations are what being an adult is? 

If they had just said, "Watson is an elite QB, and Mayfield isn't" then fine, that's a true statement. But all this other BS is annoying, and they only shot themselves in the foot, because now nobody wants to trade for a guy they know the Browns are gonna release. 

The contract being fully guaranteed for 230 million is incredibly risky. There is basically one way this pans out for the Browns (Watson is an elite QB, and plays at his 2020 level for the life of his contract)  and several ways(off field, injury, 2020 turns out to be an anomaly, team isn't as good as they think it is)  it doesn't. 

Time will tell, but right now, but while Watson>Mayfield, I still think this is the 3rd best team in the AFC North. 

 
zeeshan2 said:
How so? There's lots of Brown fans turning it their fandom for trading for this guy. Not only that, he's probably suspended next year for a long time, which is why they reduced his base salary for 1M and signed Brissett. They alienated their only good QB in a while, saying they need an adult at QB, paid their new guy 230M guaranteed which is the highest in NFL history, and you have to deal with having a sexual predator at QB for as long as he's there. Frankly, it's pretty disgusting by the Browns and I am glad we got rid of the guy.
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Having the least amount of base salary in year 1 of a contract like that is not uncommon.  I believe it is fairly standard.  A possible suspension is not why it's that way......although it does help out Watson (if there is a suspension - my guess is 6 games max and I wouldn't be surprised with no suspension at this point). 

 
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