Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I knew he’d lose his job with that performance, but he still had style for days. The headband & mustache - I like the cut of his jib.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
QB Gardner Minshew II - KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
One of the Dolphins beat writers has brought up the possibility that if Miami plays themselves out of the Tua/Burrows sweepstakes, they should consider offering Houston's 1 for Minshew.
simey
Footballguy
To me it says you are assuming that was the case. I doubt Marrone decided to start Foles after the bye based solely on Minshew's London game.
There’s more than just Tua in the draft and really doubt they’d get a 1 for him anyway
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t think he’s worth it tbh. Kinda feels like a flash in the pan. He didn’t exactly face a juggernaut defense in London.
He’s not bad, but I’m not sure he’s a franchise QB, which he’d have to be to be worth Houston’s 1.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Aside from his last game, what more cold he have done? He had a rating around 100, 13 TD to 2 INT going into that game. As a rookie, who had no idea he would ever see a snap this season as opposed to a rookie like Murray who knew from day 1 he was starting and was prepared by his coaches for it. I watched him play and came away impressed every time I watched him - even a few times on Sunday.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I watched him too - looked like a pretty simplified game-plan, and against really not great competition on what’s been a very soft schedule. Starting when he took over week 1, he’s faced really light competition. And coming out of that game he’s 13:4 - can’t slice and dice there. That’s his TD:Int ratio.
he’s also fumbled the ball 11 times, losing 7 of them. So he’s currently at 13 TD:11 turnovers. That’s not awesome, though his rushing stats are an impressive part of his game.
1 - Chiefs (bad secondary) 275/2/1
2 - Texans (bad secondary) 213/1/0
3 - Titans (decent secondary) 204/2/0
4 - Broncos (decent secondary) 213/2/0
5 - Panthers (bad secondary?) 374/2/0
6 - Saints (good secondary) 163/0/1
7 - Bengals (bad secondary) 255/1/0
8 - Jets (Yeesh) 279/3/0
9 - Texans (bad secondary) 309/0/2
He also took a whopping 21 sacks. Some of those are on the OL, but some of those are him not throwing the ball away.
to me, other than the Chiefs, Jets & Panthers (3 of the worst secondaries in the NFL), these numbers seem like “game- manager” type performances. The team didn’t ask him to do that much & he delivered.
again, not saying he sucks. Also not saying Miami couldn’t use him.
But I’m not sure he’s worth a 1st round pick. And I totally understand why he’s losing his job.
I realize FF isn’t RL, but if Miami acquired him, would you spend a 1st round pick to trade for him in Dynasty?
Plus Miami is going to have a very very high selection. So a 2020 2nd is like a late 1st. If Miami offered a 2nd, would the Jags really turn that down? I’m thinking they might late him go for Miami’s 3rd, since that’s like a late 2nd.
And is he better than Rosen? Hard to say how good Rosen would be with the Jags or how bad Minshew would be on that putrid Dolphins squad. I think Minshew gets the edge for poise & moxie.
i really like Minshew, but I’m still not entirely convinced. Light schedule, too many turnovers, wasn’t asked to do that much.
I hope he does well because he’s a fun dude, and he could develop into a nice QB eventually.
But Miami should hold onto their 1.0x IMO.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
This is a good post and I dont necessarily disagree that any pick in the first may be too much for him. However, I still find it very impressive that he put up those numbers as a 6th round pick who probably saw nearly no first tram reps, regardless of his competition - which I dont think was actually as bad as the picture being painted. In my league, he has outpaced Phillip Rivers, Jared Goff, Jimmy G, Carr, Brissett, Josh Allen, etc. He isnt far behind Murray, Wentz, Winston, Ryan, Cousins, and Brady. He is right in the mix with those guys. Again, as a 6th round rookie who had little/no first team work and does not play on a super-dynamic offense. Impressive by any measure, and if Miami got him for a 3rd or even New Orlean's 2nd which I believe they own, I would be thrilled to see them grab Chase Young with their first rounder, and roll with Minshew. If he sucks, Tank For Trevor in 2020!
jtd13
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Hell freaking no. Would never make that deal. I like him. But he is not a 1st rounder....nope. So much talent coming out in 2020. They are using all those picks.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I understand this take and I dont completely disagree with it...but I also dont completely agree with it. Every drafted QB poses a huge risk. Big time bust rate. Look at Mayfield and Darnold right now, as well as our very own Josh Rosen.
Minshew has done something that none of the QBs in this draft have done yet - shown us at an NFL level that the game is not too big for him. He has demonstrated pocket presence, decision making, moxie, leadership, and he has won NFL games. He has a passer rating of 92.8. In 8.5 games he has accounted for 2,570 yards (302 per game) with 13 TD and 4 picks (7 lost fumbles which is bad, but...roookie).
That is with no first team reps (I assume) until week 2 of the regular season. Those numbers are very comparable to the first player picked in the draft this year. His draft pedigree may be clouding our judgement.
grateful zed
Footballguy
dropped him in dyno, need the space.
Completely agree and it goes to show how influential draft capital is in our perceptions of players. I still hear people talking about Josh Rosen getting a chance as a starter on another team but Minshew is a guy who can just be discarded since he was a 6th round pick and what he did is probably a fluke. Not saying anyone would take Rosen over Minshew at this point, but I think Minshew is still largely seen as a novelty. If he was picked in the 2nd or 3rd round and played exactly the same as he has, NO ONE would be saying going back to Foles was the right move. Let's not forget that QB is probably the position where NFL evaluators miss most - they are terrible at scouting QBs for the most part.
The fumbles is the only thing I'm concerned about. Everything else has been terrific. Yes, he had a bad game in London, but all rookies have bad games from time to time. He's had some really great games too, shown a lot more than Jones or Haskins (who will both get multiple chances because of their draft position....oh, and Jones fumbles a heap too).
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Miami got their one win, why on earth wouldn't they play Rosen? Playing fitz does nothing but cost them draft capital.
Todem
Footballguy
I like him. But he is not a stud "who will take you to the Super Bowl" material long term IMO. We need a Franchise QB. Not another guy who can win some games but never take you to the promised land. Remember Ryan Tannehill had a year he had this kind of success.....one year.
I simply don’t see a 1st rounder QB in Minshew. Great story, can’t disagree there. But I rather take my chances with my first rounder in 2020 on another player.
It has been me of the best stories of the NFL season. I am a fan of Foles as well, so I hope that Foles’ play helps Jacksonville to have a decent season.
i also hope that one way or another Minshew gets another opportunity. He played very well, way beyond expectations and could be an asset in the league at the right spot.
i also hope that one way or another Minshew gets another opportunity. He played very well, way beyond expectations and could be an asset in the league at the right spot.
Todem
Footballguy
Bull Crap. It is not draft capital perception for me. I have watched Minshew a lot. In fact I liked the way he looked against us in the pre-season. I took notice.
When I watched Brady’s 2001 Super Bowl run....I said to myself....there is a 1st round QB who everyone overlooked. I never thought that watching Minshew.
He is not first round material.
He was drafted later than he should have been based on his play......but he is not a franchise QB IMO and no way in hell I would pay a 1st round pick in the talent rich 2020 draft for him. Simple as that.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not sure where I ever claimed he was "first round material" though I certainly think he's better than some QBs taken in the first round, for what that's worth. In any case, I wasn't talking about you specifically, but I don't think it's really debatable that draft capital impacts our perceptions of players generally.
I don't think a franchise should necessarily trade a 2020 first for him either, although if they did I wouldn't think it was crazy, since we already know he can play in the league and having a good young QB is valuable. Maybe he's just Andy Dalton, but he's shown that he has some star potential in my opinion and I definitely think he's a 'franchise QB' in terms of ability. I guess we differ there.
Trades for QBs are usually over value anyway because teams are desperate - look at the price the Vikings paid for Bradford a couple of years ago.
Todem
Footballguy
Yeah QB's are overvalued in trades for sure. I was referring more to Chuck about trading a 1st rounder for him.
My perception of Minshew in the pre-season was strong. I really liked how he looked. And felt teams missed on him letting him slip that far. At the same time I could not justify a 1st rounder in 2020 for him either. Not right now. Tough call to be honest.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Foles has been streaky, but outside the Jeff Fisher era he's been streaky between average and HOF-level. i.e. his overall #s are strong if you take out the time with the Rams. Especially if you include the playoffs.
Last edited by a moderator:
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Well to be fair, my post was in response to the thought that Maronne wouldn't have benched Minshew if he had played a good game in London.simey said:
If Maronne had a decision already made, he should have said to the media that they know who the QB is instead of saying they will make a decision. Minshew should have already known Foles was the guy when healthy so there should be no reason to communicate any QB uncertainty to the media.
If he didn't have a decision already made, he's probably basing it largely on the performance in a single game. If Foles didn't know he had the job back until Minshew had a bad game, I guess they are telling Foles he better play well immediately.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well, if you want to go down this road both Mayfield and Darnold (after he came back from him injury) looked even better than Minshew as rookies. It's their second season where they have struggled. I've watched Minshew a few times and while he's fun to watch and a great story I have doubts he's a long term franchise QB. I don't think he has great arm strength and takes some risks. I'm not saying he can't be a long term starter, but I'm just not convinced he is.ChuckLiddell said:
Trading a first round pick for him would be a huge mistake imo.
Foosball God
Foos
I think he has the potential to run a franchise. He's not going to carry a team on his back like Mahomes or Watson but he can be a more than solid starter. That said I agree with you that it would be pretty stupid for another struggling franchise to give a #1 at this point for him. There are QBs in the next two drafts that have higher potential than Minshew.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Baker yes, but Darnold? Not so much. His passer rating was 77 last year with a 17/15 TD to INT ratio. Bakers was 93, right in line with Minshew's. Baker was the first pick overall. I think Minshew would be at best, a late first round pick. But maybe he could be had for a second. Miami has a couple of them too.
The point was moreso that every QB, regardless of draft spot is a big risk. Tua/Burrows could be the next Peyton Manning, or they could be the next Ryan Leaf. Its a tough position to scout. Guys who are unstoppable at the college level cannot process the NFL game. The examples are endless. Minshew has already shown that he can. The NFL has NFL tape on Minshew, and its for the most part very good - especially when you consider all of the circumstances around his situation.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I said "after he returned from his injury" (which was the last four games, which admittedly in a small sample size). His TD to INT ratio was 6:1 there and he looked fantastic.
Obviously we won't know until we do but we've also seen young QBs flash (RGIII, Osweiler, Flynn, Cassell to name a few) and then fade away so I'm not sure how "proven" Minshew is at this point. I realize taking rookie QBs always presents risk and scouts get it wrong all the time but I just don't see Minshew as a great prospect all of a sudden.
And as far as "The NFL has NFL tape on Minshew" this can turn out to be a negative as well as he won't catch teams by surprise the next time around. He has flaws that can be exposed like his weak(ish) arm and recklessness with the ball.
Listen I fully admit I could be wrong and the guy could be the next Brady but imo the Dolphins would be screwing up their plans by moving a first or even a second for an average QB - swing big or go home.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Agree across the board. I think Miami would only consider it if they win too many games this year to execute their real plan. But there are other teams who will not be in the running for a top QB that could consider parting with a pick. Top of my head:
Steelers, Bears, Titans, Bucs, Panthers, Broncos, Skins, Bengals, and maybe if the unthinkable happens and Brady retires....That would be such a Bellichik move. Not like they would have better/safer options picking at the end of the first.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Andy Dalton is essentially the median QB. 15 QBs are better and 16 QBs are worse. Minshew can't be too far down the list. He's an NFL starter unless he regressed significantly.
Great points made above too.
Last edited by a moderator:
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Because there is no reality, there is only perception.
Meaning that the fans don't know what really happens, they only know what the media reports.
Last edited by a moderator:
Todem
Footballguy
He is a starter. No debate. His he a franchise QB? I rather use my picks to find a better QB knowing what I know already about Minshew.
Again. Love the story. Love the moxie. But if I am rebuilding (Miami) I want a bonafide stud and rather keep drafting QB's till we hit on one. To this day I will never understand why we passed on Lamar Jackson.....I was blown away when we did not draft him.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
EDIT: #######IT!!!!
Last edited by a moderator:
@Arodin - I need to give @The Frankman major props as he has been a huge asset this year updating the player threads, especially over the last few weeks while I have had limited time to post in the Shark Pool.
It was really just one bad half. I mean yeah he didn't play great last 2 games but still a pretty small sample size with all new teammates.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
feel bad for Nick, what a Cinderella story he had in philly, if alshon catches that pass vs the saints Im not so sure they don't go to another superbowl.
Minshew is the face of the jags now, it is what it is
Minshew is the face of the jags now, it is what it is
