Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ahem
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QB Max Brosmer, MIN (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Counterpoint: it’s totally believable. Weak arm, rookie quarterback against a top-notch Seattle defense. Not only was it believable, it was predictable.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Remarkably, it got worse.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes, it was. No doubt. I saw menobrown's post about 1/3 of his playoff teams going up against Seattle and felt sick because if things went like I figured, they'd have no hook for the kid because who was backing him up?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
didn’t realize I accurately called the number of turnovers until I quoted myself.
I did fall a few short of my dozen sacks prediction. Hard to get sacked when he’s throwing interceptions though. To be fair.
That was one of the 3 places I faced them as well.
The other two places were Big Gorilla playoffs. Both of my teams were top seedd, combined 21-3 record and most points in the regular season. 30th and 468th overall. The team that finished 30th also faced Meyers, so the guy got 52 from his TD and K. Never seen that before. Now it's season over and I got nothing to show for these teams, not a cent won, just a lottery ticket in a contest it's hard to cash. Tough to take man.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was just reading through at everybody's behest and was going to quote your prediction that turned exact (did he fumble? You said "turnovers." I kid.) but you've already patted yourself on the back; no need for me to do it also.
rockaction
Footballguy
That was one of the 3 places I faced them as well.
The other two places were Big Gorilla playoffs. Both of my teams were top seedd, combined 21-3 record and most points in the regular season. 30th and 468th overall. The team that finished 30th also faced Meyers, so the guy got 52 from his TD and K. Never seen that before. Now it's season over and I got nothing to show for these teams, not a cent won, just a lottery ticket in a contest it's hard to cash. Tough to take man.
Ugh. I can't commiserate with you on that level, but I felt pretty bad reading your post today. I'm not Nostradamus, but I didn't think it would be quite so bad until I reminded myself there was really no back up to the back up.
Sorry about the end of your curation. I don't know how many teams you had and still might have, but it still must feel lousy regardless. Peace and I wish you better luck as this goes on.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Awe man, sorry to hear.That was one of the 3 places I faced them as well.
The other two places were Big Gorilla playoffs. Both of my teams were top seedd, combined 21-3 record and most points in the regular season. 30th and 468th overall. The team that finished 30th also faced Meyers, so the guy got 52 from his TD and K. Never seen that before. Now it's season over and I got nothing to show for these teams, not a cent won, just a lottery ticket in a contest it's hard to cash. Tough to take man.
Ernest Jones scored nearly that (47.5) in my 16 team IDP league, clinching a playoff berth.
But I thought of your post watching that game - I knew it would be bad for you, but didn’t expect quite this level of butt whoopery. Condolences.
That said, isn’t it really about the friends you made along the way? (I kid because I know how bad it sucks - I got officially eliminated in my home league today, with the best team I’ve had in years. I also dropped from 1st to 2nd in my NFFC BB. Gah.)
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Nate Peterman. Yes. That’s one of the people he reminded me of today.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
One of these millennia the Vikings are going to identify a QB, draft him, develop him…and it is going to be glorious.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Too early to give up on McCarhty, but he needs have the off-season of all offseason’s. I can see them brining a veteran in as insurance. Mac Jones seems to make sense but he may fetch a longer term/larger deal than what MIN would be willing to pay.
Gjallarhorn
Footballguy
The Vikings are $35M over the cap for next year, so that will limit who they bring in to compete for the job.
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Him being generationally bad cost me a week (I faced Seattle's D). This guy sucks.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Why? They seem to be so much better at grabbing a guy off the scrap heap and making him look good.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'll either be worm food or a crispy critter, haven't really decided yet. Not that I care about what the Vikings do however. Maybe they should have kept Sam Darnold.
He wouldn't get them a Super Bowl either. I still haven't seen him perform in a game that really matters yet. While he may be better than JJM/Brosmer he isn't winning (or getting to) any Super Bowls and the money needed to sign him just would have kept the Vikes in no man's land while paying a bunch for a slightly above mediocre QB.
fightingillini
Footballguy
Agree. Just like CIN was at for years when they had Dalton. Dalton was a decent QB that couldn't get them too far in the playoffs. Kept CIN in the mediocre to decent for years....never good enough to contend but never bad enough to get the high draft pick to select a potential generational QB. That's a terrible place to be.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
punt the rest of the decade. I hear they are also in cap hell.
You don't need a generational QB to get to the Super Bowl. There are plenty of teams that can build in a way that doesn't take a generational QB (even if that is a bit of a cheat code - but doesn't work all the time). What you cannot have is a QB that will fold under pressure like Darnold and prevent you from getting there.
I don't mind the approach of building the defense and skill positions like the Vikes have done but they definitely haven't found the right QB that can do enough and not kill the pressure games for them. I am not sure who that could be at this point or who would be available that can do that. Therein lies the problem.
You can always get out of cap hell. It's kind of a false narrative. Shifting bonuses and money etc and you can always find more room if need be.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Don't you eventually have to pay the pied piper?
In theory sure but in reality, there are plenty of ways to get around the salary cap in perpetuity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It still could be JJM. Dude’s had less than a dozen starts. He’s shown flashes, but that OL is Swiss cheese. No QB has a chance back there. If Darnold stayed on the team they’d have the exact same record.
Vikings are dumb if they don’t commit to developing JJM & their 1st 3 draft picks should be OL.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Still need an OL. Mahomes on this Vikings team goes 3-14, probably on the IR by week 9.
I don't necessarily think this is true (even though I know you are trying to be a bit hyperbolic). If the Vikes had Mahomes they would probably have the #1 seed at this point. That would open KOC up to so much more offensively that the O-line can be helped by the QB getting them in favorable plays. Quick hitters and Mahomes improv plays to Jefferson would be daggers to other teams.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No, not forever.
I agree. He could still develop into something for sure. He has shown he can make plays and make all the throws but has zero consistency (which the O-line isn't helping him out any). And surprisingly the "great" receiving group has really let down the QB's as much as the QB's have let them down. There have been a ton of drops over the last few weeks by all pass catchers (yes - even Jefferson) that have really hurt. It's really been a complete team effort to get to this level of incompetency.
Name a team with a solid front office that hasn't been able to push off the piper continuously?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don't claim to be a cap expert, but it is my understanding you can't keep pushing money and bonues into the future without it eventually catching up with you. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than you or I can chime in with a reality check. The only thing I can think of that would help with that is a continueous genereous increase in the cap every year.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Which is what we've had for the past 20 years except in the pandemic year. And the cap will go up even more exponential than usual when the new TV deal is reached in 2028-ish.
Which has happened pretty consistently as far as I can remember.
In theory I think you are correct. But in reality there are ways to move those cap hits around and still be able to sign guys you need. That in conjunction with the cap going up due to ever increasing revenues and you are able to circumvent it.
Some teams are bad at cap management or are bad at football so they take the hit because they aren't going to be competitive anyway. But well run teams can avoid "paying the piper" fairly easily.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Do you have any numbers for what the cap increases have been the last 10 years? Is that enough to offset cap hell for teams indefinitely?
Owners that don't mind spending real money to be competitive can do this as they want. The cap really is move effective for cheap owners that don't want to pay real money. That is the way they can circumvent the cap so to speak by changing the structure of the contracts which affects real money more than the cap space.
There are ways to get out of cap hell by shifting money to bonuses etc to clear up space or move payment to a year where you don't need the space and can use it up. The capologists can manipulate the money/contracts to make it work.
Cap Status
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The Vikings don't strike me as a team willing to spend a ton consistently. They are still a small market team that doesn't feel the pressure to win. I live in Minnesota and they are fair weather fans and there isn't a lot of fair weather (not to mean real weather). The fans in Minnesota find other things to do when the Vikings suck and don't seem to get angry ever.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
- 2011: $120.375 million
- 2012: $120.6 million
- 2013: $123 million
- 2014: $133 million
- 2015: $143.28 million
- 2016: $155.27 million
- 2017: $167 million
- 2018: $177.2 million
- 2019: $188.2 million
- 2020: $198.2 million
- 2021: $182.5 million (due to pandemic)
- 2022: $208.2 million
- 2023: $224.8 million
- 2024: $255.4 million
- 2025: ~$279.2 million
It's gone up sharply each year since the end of the Great Recession in 2013 except for the COVID year of 2020. And the jump has been bigger in recent years because NFL games are about the only thing that attract massive amounts of live viewers anymore.
You are correct but they could if they wanted to. It goes back to the real limit of the salary cap is an owner that doesn't want to pay real money. That is the owner restriction not the cap restriction.
Yeah, at least with JJM he can get 45!
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Gotta be shtick
Gonna thoroughly disagree about the Vikings and their OL. They did more to improve their OL than ANY TEAM IN THE NFL this offseason, with 2 higher end FA additions, and a 1st round pick. They've had some injuries but the idea that the OL is the problem to me is not even close to true. Its been no worse than it was last season and would have been clearly better if not for said injuries. Hell, I'd 100% argue this current Vikings OL is better than what Darnold has in Seattle.
The QB play has been a lot worse this year, and that's on the QBs more than anything else. They've had the worst QB play in the NFL (even worse than the Browns) Wentz is a declining mediocre backup, Brosmer has no business at all in the NFL, and McCarthy was always a rawer prospect, but has clearly shown he's not ready, though I'm nowhere near ready to write him off, and frankly, I don't even think JJ has been the worst of the 2024 1st round QBs (Penix is worse to me, because he's already gonna be 26 next year, and has bad knees)
Beyond the QB play, the pass catchers are just playing worse, and that includes Jefferson, but that extends to Addison, and especially Hockenson and Jones.
I don't know exactly what the Vikings plan of action should be. The OL has quality OTs, a good Center when healthy, and a good young LG. Fries has been a bit of a FA bust at RG, but you're kinda stuck with him now. I think I'd stick with McCarthy myself, at least for 1 more season, have some veteran competition, but I wouldn't be looking to "make a splash" obviously Jefferson is great, though I'm gonna argue that I think Addison is nothing special. I think he'd be a #3 on most teams, and just benefits from Jefferson attention. Hockenson looks like he lost a step, and I wonder if they wouldn't be better off with Oliver starting at TE and using that money on another WR. I think Mason and Jones are a solid enough 1-2 punch in a more functional offense.
If I'm the Vikings, OL isn't something I'm really that worried about upgrading, other than maybe depth. Its a good OL when healthy. I'd call the Vikings 3 biggest needs as:
1. Better QB play, from McCarthy or a vet.
2. DB upgrade
3. LB upgrade
I think the idea that this would be a 3-win team with Mahomes at QB is silly. Justin Herbert's OL is infinitely worse than Minnesota's and the Chargers are 8-4.
Stupid coaching.
Kid was bad, no doubt, but he was awful because they did nothing to help him.
You can put an extra tackle in and run.
We've all seen the snap n throw lobs to Jefferson that are all JJ and QB does nothing special. Can't call that?
When Hockensen just ran to a spot and turned and caught it. Why stop calling that play? TJ can man up against anyone.
The kid's head was so far gone and they did nothing to help him or settle him. Just "my system will work, run the plays." Terrible coaching
Kid was bad, no doubt, but he was awful because they did nothing to help him.
You can put an extra tackle in and run.
We've all seen the snap n throw lobs to Jefferson that are all JJ and QB does nothing special. Can't call that?
When Hockensen just ran to a spot and turned and caught it. Why stop calling that play? TJ can man up against anyone.
The kid's head was so far gone and they did nothing to help him or settle him. Just "my system will work, run the plays." Terrible coaching
I agree they did improve their O-Line.........until the injuries hit. They had a lot of injuries. The have been down to 3rd and 4th string guys for much of the year so the line has been terrible. It can be good and should be better if/when they return to health. But the line play was very bad for much of the year.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Ryan Kelly was more of a liability with the Colts than an asset. He is vastly overrated. I was elated when he walked.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not shtick. No OL, even the mighty Mahomes would struggle.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And they’ve had a ton of injuries, and some of the players who’ve returned from injury clearly been 100% (ahem, Darrisaw)
Things happen with the passage of time. You’re disagreeing with reality, friend.
