QB Tom Brady, TB (2 Viewers)

[Dizzy]

Looks washed up to me. He didn’t have a good season at all when he see what little success he had and the competition it was against.

Fully with you. It's the circle of QB life right? The great ones start out a little sloppy, have some success, "show flashes", but lack consistency. This is exactly where Brady is at now. Football IQ is off the charts of course, but a lot of throws are pure garbage.

Tonight, we saw the best team from the worst division in football get trucked by a team that just got trucked. It is ovah.

 

[Faust]

What's next for Tom Brady? Experts predict landing spots, Bucs' QB plan

 

[Andrew74]

Victory laps after beating Carolina…

 

[TampaMike19]

how the **** does ANYONE attempt 66 passes and win a game? That is beyond bogus playcalling.

Bowles should be one and done but he won't be.

 

[Ghost Rider]

how the **** does ANYONE attempt 66 passes and win a game? That is beyond bogus playcalling.

Bowles should be one and done but he won't be.

Well, they were behind by so much that they just had to chuck it the whole second half, but the real laugher was Brady stat whoring and staying in till the very end. That might have been the worst 300-yard, 2 TD passes game in NFL playoff history.

That aside, Brady is obviously the QB GOAT, but he looks cooked. He needs to retire, but I doubt he tossed his marriage aside just to have one mediocre season and then call it a day. He, like any QB who gets to the NFL, has enough arrogance to think he can still do it in the right spot.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I don't care who plays QB next year but Tampa better learn how to run the ball. #32 in yards per game.

 

[UncleZen]

Brady still has the arm and the skills, but IMO, he looks scared to get hit. He is getting rid of the ball so fast that it doesn't matter if it's on target or not.

 

[Obie Wan]

how the **** does ANYONE attempt 66 passes and win a game? That is beyond bogus playcalling.

Bowles should be one and done but he won't be.

doesn't matter what logic dictates or that 8-9 record
he's a black HC AND won his division
uphill battle to fire him

 

[Dr. Octopus]

he's a black HC AND won his division

Yeah, a black head coach like Bowles would never get fired. Oh wait....

 

[Rubi]

Was Tommy waving goodbye to Bucs fans as he left the field? Or waving goodbye to The NFL?

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Brady still has the arm and the skills, but IMO, he looks scared to get hit. He is getting rid of the ball so fast that it doesn't matter if it's on target or not.

This. He didn't really get hit that much in NE because he moved smartly to avoid the hits and buy another second to get rid of the ball. Now he can't move his feet so well, and the ball often comes out way too soon for his WRs to move into their next route progression. He threw to nobody but the turf hundreds of times this year. Most of these guys are not going to lose their arm strength, at least to the point they can't make plays. Even Manning with his mess of an arm could wobble it out there firm enough to win a SB. But they are gonna lose their legs. And they are gonna hate waking up after getting hit numerous times.

 

[menobrown]

Brady still has the arm and the skills, but IMO, he looks scared to get hit. He is getting rid of the ball so fast that it doesn't matter if it's on target or not.

I think you are right thought I don't like to use the phrasing as "scared to get hit" so much as I think he's realistic that his old body can't take hits. This was the same thing I saw with Ben Roethlisberger near the end. The lack of mobility makes it such they have to have an immediate answer of where to get rid of the ball or they are sitting ducks.

This can be helped a little. Godwin was his safety blanket this year, and that guy's toughness last night was impressive. But he could use more of quicker slot option IMO and most of all a TE. Some easier outs in the area of the field he likes to work. This is not to say he did not have good weapons in Tampa, just not ideal for where he is right now and the style he needs to play. The cast around him really did not do him a lot of favors with the lack of running game and depleted OL and Leftwich did not seem to have any fixes up his sleeve.

It's why I still keep thinking if he returns, which I think he does, the Raiders make the most sense. Welker and Waller provide the type of options in the passing game he excels with and of course Davante helps any QB. The running game, assuming Jacobs is back, should be a major asset to him as well. People may say the OL sucks but I'd ask what they are basing that on? Jacobs obviously performed well and the Raiders were near the bottom quarter of the league in sacks taken while Carr was in the bottom quarter of the league in how long he held the ball and of course he's not very mobile.

 

[Anarchy99]

Brady still has the arm and the skills, but IMO, he looks scared to get hit. He is getting rid of the ball so fast that it doesn't matter if it's on target or not.

This. He didn't really get hit that much in NE because he moved smartly to avoid the hits and buy another second to get rid of the ball. Now he can't move his feet so well, and the ball often comes out way too soon for his WRs to move into their next route progression. He threw to nobody but the turf hundreds of times this year. Most of these guys are not going to lose their arm strength, at least to the point they can't make plays. Even Manning with his mess of an arm could wobble it out there firm enough to win a SB. But they are gonna lose their legs. And they are gonna hate waking up after getting hit numerous times.

IMO, Brady suffered from a few issues. The biggest one was an inferior offensive line (that saw a ton of injuries this year). He didn't have a lot of time to throw on a bunch of drop backs, and more importantly, the pressure often came up the middle and he couldn't step into his throws. That caused him to try to move side to side, and ultimately, he chucked the ball to avoid taking sacks. Second, a lot of times, Tampa had guys running deeper routes. Plays that take time to develop and having no time to throw don't mix well. And lastly, even going back to when he was still in NE, Brady doesn't trust all of his receivers. He would look for his primary guys and didn't always look at other receivers on the receiving tree. Both in NE and TB, there were times when guys were open, but he didn't look their way and instead tried to get the ball to one of his primary guys in double or triple coverage.

 

[habsfan]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

 

[Anarchy99]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

 

[fightingillini]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

This.

To win the NFL consistently, you have to be able to run the ball. To run the ball, you have to win the battles up front. The TB OL couldn't do that. And good teams exposed TB, like DAL last night.

Brady had 5.3YPA last night. That's terrible. TB couldn't throw it down the field, and that's also a product of the OL. You need protection to get it down the field.

I wouldn't fault Brady. TB had way too many defaults to be a contender.....on both sides of the ball.

 

[habsfan]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

I agree with you. My comment was more in the context of what's next for him and risk/reward considerations that potential destination teams should be thinking about. Reality is somewhere between optimal conditions and putting a team on your back. He's not getting the former and likely isn't doing the latter. Add in that he's going to want "creative control" of the offense and he's obviously a rental, it should give teams a lot to think about.

 

[Anarchy99]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

I agree with you. My comment was more in the context of what's next for him and risk/reward considerations that potential destination teams should be thinking about. Reality is somewhere between optimal conditions and putting a team on your back. He's not getting the former and likely isn't doing the latter. Add in that he's going to want "creative control" of the offense and he's obviously a rental, it should give teams a lot to think about.

I don't know what Brady has to offer at 45, but at 43 he took a Tampa team that had a lot of good players on both sides of the ball that went 7-9 and then won the SB. Brady got more from the offense, didn't turn the ball over, and that helped the defense (less time on the field, didn't have short fields to defend). Could he do that again? Maybe . . . Maybe not.

Brady's best bet on being able to be selectively great and not have to be the main cog in the offense would be SF. They have a lot of weapons, a good OL, and a strong running game (to go with a top defense). But the Niners could potentially win without him this year with Mr. Irrelevant. Not sure the Niners would be that interested (they seemed to pass on him in the past.)

I have been suggesting Brady would go the Raiders next year for several months. Adams, Jacobs, Waller, Renfroe, and anyone else Tom could recruit would create an offense similar to what he had his first season in Tampa. Plus, he'd be going back to McDaniels. The defense probably would still be an issue, but they could work on that. The potential issue with LV is it's pretty far from Brady's kids.

I know he's been linked to the Dolphins for a while now, but I doubt they disrupt Tua's development to bring in TB12 for a year. Maybe the Titans would consider bringing him in for the short-term. Maybe he goes somewhere with Sean Payton (ARI?). And the Jets need a QB . . . but is that all they need to make a run?

There can't by that many other teams where adding Brady makes a lot of sense. A team would have to be pretty close with a lot of existing pieces already in place (in addition to not already having a QB or developing one).

 

[Wingnut]

49ers dont want or need Brady. I wish everyone would stop with that scenario.

 

[Anarchy99]

49ers dont want or need Brady. I wish everyone would stop with that scenario.

I don't think SF wants him either, but the Niners are an obvious landing spot that has the things that Brady both needs and would look for in a new team to be successful.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

This.

To win the NFL consistently, you have to be able to run the ball. To run the ball, you have to win the battles up front. The TB OL couldn't do that. And good teams exposed TB, like DAL last night.

Brady had 5.3YPA last night. That's terrible. TB couldn't throw it down the field, and that's also a product of the OL. You need protection to get it down the field.

I wouldn't fault Brady. TB had way too many defaults to be a contender.....on both sides of the ball.

Brady's weakness has always been teams that can get pressure without blitzing.

He's always played behind pretty good O-lines, so teams were often left with a choice of sitting back in coverage, which Brady can pick apart, or blitz to get pressure, which Brady can also pick apart because he reads the field so well and so quickly.

Pressure from the front 4 has always been his huge achilles heel. And while that may sound obvious as something that works against any QB, it works a lot better on Brady because he's always been pretty immobile and, for such a great QB that is so great at reading defenses, he actually has pretty mediocre (at best) pocket presence.

While a defensive line that gets pressure is a huge advantage against all QBs, it's much moreso for Brady as most QBs in the NFL now are pretty good at buying some time. I'm not talking about having to be Lamar Jackson here, just a guy like Burrow able to move around and buy time behind a weaker line.

Brady is used to either standing like a statue behind a brick wall O-line and taking his time, or getting the ball out in half a second to a hot read that is open that most QBs wouldn't be able to find that quickly. When pressure comes in a reasonable amount of time and there's no hot read in the hole of the defense, he's not great at buying that extra second for someone to come open. And then (like most QBs who start to feel the pass rush) he gets in his own head and starts making bad throws even when he does have time (as he did many times last night).

 

[Manster]

Listening to sports talk radio this AM and all they can talk about is how the Buccs are not good enough for Brady to hang around......wtf?! Brady is the problem in that equation! He has finally hit the wall. He looked his age last night. He needs to hang em up.

 

[JohnnyU]

Listening to sports talk radio this AM and all they can talk about is how the Buccs are not good enough for Brady to hang around......wtf?! Brady is the problem in that equation! He has finally hit the wall. He looked his age last night. He needs to hang em up.

How dare you!!! You can't say that here don't you know? TB12 will still be playing long after I'm dead and I hope to hear about his successes via Hells Tribune.

 

[Manster]

He'll be a Raider. That's where old guys go to die

 

[Chreesto]

I wonder how available the "nextgen" stats are? I think Brady can still be a huge difference maker in the right situation. If I were him I would want to know which of the teams available had receivers with the highest amount of separation at 2.5 seconds..............or something like that. If he doesn't have great protection and the routes are slow to develop, he can be a liability. I was very surprised that Bowles and Company didn't do a great job of scheming faster-developing routes or forcing the run game to enable PA passing, which seemed to work well when they committed to it. I think that if he lands in a good spot there is a good chance that he looks more like 2021 Brady than 2022 Brady. If I were the Jets, Commanders, Raiders or, maybe, Dolphins, I would definitely explore the possibility.

 

[Chreesto]

Also - I found this site (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/) which is really informative. Try using the tool to look at the (massive) dropoff from the buccaneers 2021 pass catchers to their 2022 pass catchers. That evaluation is meant to only incorporate the performance of the receivers across 4 metrics (ability to get open, ability to catch, yards afte catch, overall) so it is a pretty good way to look at which teams have the best tools in the receiving game. Losing AB and Gronk was huge, not to mention a major dropoff for Evans. In last night's game I didn't see a lot of Bucs receivers getting separation and very few QBs will thrive in that environment. Take a look at the 49ers 2022 performance if you want to see a team with scary receiving options.

 

[Anarchy99]

Also - I found this site (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/) which is really informative. Try using the tool to look at the (massive) dropoff from the buccaneers 2021 pass catchers to their 2022 pass catchers. That evaluation is meant to only incorporate the performance of the receivers across 4 metrics (ability to get open, ability to catch, yards afte catch, overall) so it is a pretty good way to look at which teams have the best tools in the receiving game. Losing AB and Gronk was huge, not to mention a major dropoff for Evans. In last night's game I didn't see a lot of Bucs receivers getting separation and very few QBs will thrive in that environment. Take a look at the 49ers 2022 performance if you want to see a team with scary receiving options.

2022 Best Receiver Scores
White 56 / Evans 55 / Gage 47 / Fournette 46 / Godwin 45 / Otton 40 / Jones 34

2021
Brown 71 / Evnas 68 / Godwin 60 / Gronk 52 / Fournette 47 / Johnson 39 / Brate 26

2020
Evans 69 / Brown 59 / Brate 52 / Godwin 50 / Miller 50 / Gronk 47 / Fournette 32 / Jones 13

2019 (With Winston)
Evans 77 / Godwin 77 / Perriman 48 / Brate 36 / Ogunbowale 32 / Howard 30

 

[Andrew74]

“Of those 66 attempts, just 13 were longer than 10-plus air yards, per Next Gen Stats. Brady went 3 of 9 for 49 yards on passes of 10-19 yards and 1 of 4 for 30 yards and a TD on passes of 20-plus yards against the Cowboys.”

That’s some pretty bad numbers.

 

[spurs44]

Looks washed up to me. He didn’t have a good season at all when he see what little success he had and the competition it was against.

Cowboys have a elite defense and Tampa's offensive line was gettng heat on almost every play. The game plan early for Tampa looked like short passes but Dallas swarmed all over that as well. Not defending him but Tampa needs to upgrade thier offensive line. They have been terrible all year and yet he was still able to throw over 4600 yds.

 

[Dizzy]

49ers dont want or need Brady. I wish everyone would stop with that scenario.

I don't think SF wants him either, but the Niners are an obvious landing spot that has the things that Brady both needs and would look for in a new team to be successful.

He stinks dude. Lot of excuses being made for a man pushing 50 next year. He is done. Statue

Only mobility he showed last night was that bush league attempt at a slide tackle/trip on the fumble return that got overturned.

 

[Dizzy]

Looks washed up to me. He didn’t have a good season at all when he see what little success he had and the competition it was against.

Cowboys have a elite defense and Tampa's offensive line was gettng heat on almost every play. The game plan early for Tampa looked like short passes but Dallas swarmed all over that as well. Not defending him but Tampa needs to upgrade thier offensive line. They have been terrible all year and yet he was still able to throw over 4600 yds.

Yes. That's why you need a QB that doesn't have his feet sewed to the field. How many of the QBs left in the post season are 0% mobility? How many of these over the hill retreads are home watching now?

The Buccs were 8-9 coming out of the worst division in football. They basically stunk all year.

 

[travdogg]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

 

[Dizzy]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

Not a hater, quite the opposite... but he cannot move anymore! Yes, he can still lumber outside the pocket if needed but it's those slippery moves inside the pocket that have left him... just as it did Roethlisberger, Marino, Manning, and all others. I'm not certain Aaron Rogers isn't there either which is why it would not shock me if he decided to walk away. They just don't have that bounce in their step anymore.

On top of that, he's afraid to get hit. That red zone INT was beyond terrible last night. And so many other balls in the dirt or off target.

Will there be a market for Brady? Yes. There are poorly run NFL teams that annually go out and sign certain failure at QB. WAS and IND are probably already fighting over Brady... and he'll stink... like this year, only worse. They might do it just to sell some jerseys. He's not a missing piece to a Super Bowl anymore.

The Buccs won 8 games... EIGHT. In a division that is total garbage. They beat 1 team, maybe 2, with a winning record this year? They stunk. Any other division in football and they would have been toast in October.

Even GOATs die eventually... and many in pitiful fashion as they hang on too long. They want to go out in one last blaze of glory, but they just keep getting older, and slower, and it gets uglier.

 

[spurs44]

49ers dont want or need Brady. I wish everyone would stop with that scenario.

I don't think SF wants him either, but the Niners are an obvious landing spot that has the things that Brady both needs and would look for in a new team to be successful.

He stinks dude. Lot of excuses being made for a man pushing 50 next year. He is done. Statue

Only mobility he showed last night was that bush league attempt at a slide tackle/trip on the fumble return that got overturned.

Maybe your right, but I don't think so. Sure, he's not the Brady of 5 years ago but he's in the top ten. He’s still a solid qb. I personally don't like him but I'm keeping it real. Well see. There's not alot of good qb's in the NFL. I gurrentee they'll be teams going after him. I hope he plays.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Come on man! As if you don't hate on players. And just because people think he's the GOAT doesn't mean everyone is required to like him. He and others like Lebron make it easy to root against them.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

+1 on the Raiders being a great fit. A running game, a top WR and a top TE? I bet the defense looks a lot better once those assets are maximized.
True, Brady can no longer do it alone. Give him the right tools and he can win. Does that make him elite? No, but his football IQ and the fact that he makes players around him better puts him close to it.
There are only 12 or so QBs where "give them the right tools" is enough to guarantee success, and a few others (Fields) where we simply don't know yet.
SF would have been a great fit before they recognized what they had in Purdy. Even if they get blown out by Dallas, he's still shown enough that they don't need to pay a QB 40 million a year when they have a major talent for 800K.

The Raiders didn't put Carr in bubble wrap for nothing. They knew they were moving on, and I think they had a game plan. I think Brady is that game plan.

 

[travdogg]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

Not a hater, quite the opposite... but he cannot move anymore! Yes, he can still lumber outside the pocket if needed but it's those slippery moves inside the pocket that have left him... just as it did Roethlisberger, Marino, Manning, and all others. I'm not certain Aaron Rogers isn't there either which is why it would not shock me if he decided to walk away. They just don't have that bounce in their step anymore.

On top of that, he's afraid to get hit. That red zone INT was beyond terrible last night. And so many other balls in the dirt or off target.

Will there be a market for Brady? Yes. There are poorly run NFL teams that annually go out and sign certain failure at QB. WAS and IND are probably already fighting over Brady... and he'll stink... like this year, only worse. They might do it just to sell some jerseys. He's not a missing piece to a Super Bowl anymore.

The Buccs won 8 games... EIGHT. In a division that is total garbage. They beat 1 team, maybe 2, with a winning record this year? They stunk. Any other division in football and they would have been toast in October.

Even GOATs die eventually... and many in pitiful fashion as they hang on too long. They want to go out in one last blaze of glory, but they just keep getting older, and slower, and it gets uglier.

Brady is certainly better than end of career Marino, Manning or Roethlisberger were. I do agree the mobility is certainly an issue, but the accuracy and the decision making are still there.

I would argue other than maybe the secondary, Brady was the best part of Tampa Bay's team this year. He wasn't holding them back in any way. They did go 2-5 against teams with winning records, but I think this is a bottom 10 team without Brady. Tampa had no running game, and no pass rush after Barrett went down.

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Come on man! As if you don't hate on players. And just because people think he's the GOAT doesn't mean everyone is required to like him. He and others like Lebron make it easy to root against them.

Fair enough, just feels like Brady in particular draws an extra bit or ire.

Its funny, I think Brady is being underrated currently, but is overrated for his career.

 

[Anarchy99]

I got grief for mentioning this earlier in this thread, but the Tampa offense with Brady, Evans, and Goodwin scored 31 TD in the regular season this year. The Patriots offense, which many people called a laughing stock of the league led by Matt Patricia and Mac Jones, scored 31 TD in the regular season this year. And Tampa ran 150 more plays than New England did on the season.

How much of that falls on Brady vs. injuries, poor OL play, or bad play calling is open for debate, but as I also mentioned before, what other QBs would have done much better in Tampa this year? Brady just set the record for most passing attempts in a season (he also had the third most attempts last year). Teams were able to scheme accordingly, and a lack of a running game put the burden on Brady to be the whole offense (the Bucs ranked last in ypc). That won't get the best out of him, and could likely get him exposed and subject to extra hits. Using a 46-year old QB as a high volume gunslinger is probably not the best strategy for a new team for Brady.

 

[Capella]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

Not a hater, quite the opposite... but he cannot move anymore! Yes, he can still lumber outside the pocket if needed but it's those slippery moves inside the pocket that have left him... just as it did Roethlisberger, Marino, Manning, and all others. I'm not certain Aaron Rogers isn't there either which is why it would not shock me if he decided to walk away. They just don't have that bounce in their step anymore.

On top of that, he's afraid to get hit. That red zone INT was beyond terrible last night. And so many other balls in the dirt or off target.

Will there be a market for Brady? Yes. There are poorly run NFL teams that annually go out and sign certain failure at QB. WAS and IND are probably already fighting over Brady... and he'll stink... like this year, only worse. They might do it just to sell some jerseys. He's not a missing piece to a Super Bowl anymore.

The Buccs won 8 games... EIGHT. In a division that is total garbage. They beat 1 team, maybe 2, with a winning record this year? They stunk. Any other division in football and they would have been toast in October.

Even GOATs die eventually... and many in pitiful fashion as they hang on too long. They want to go out in one last blaze of glory, but they just keep getting older, and slower, and it gets uglier.

#3 on PFF’s list of free agents.

2023 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Top 200 players set to enter free agency | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

We look at the 200 best players set to hit the free-agent market this offseason with free agency less than a week away.

www.pff.com

Brady has an argument to be the top player on this list, but given he may very well retire, we'll let the young bucks go ahead of him this time around. Brady’s 79.3 passing grade ranks seventh on the season, and the 16 drops by his wide receivers tied for the fifth most on the year. Granted, he threw a league-leading 733 passes this regular season, averaging nearly 45 attempts per game outside of Week 18 when he was pulled early.

Brady’s 2.5% turnover-worthy play rate ranked eighth lowest among qualifying quarterbacks, further illustrated by his streak of 399 consecutive passes without an interception

 

[Gatorman]

To me the main problem is that to "unlock" maximum Brady you need the planets to align for your team. Under optimal conditions, sure he can be that field general in total command. What he is under less than optimal conditions is the growing problem. Betting on a guy that needs 20+ weeks of a healthy and talented supporting cast is pretty much a fool's errand.

What QB thrives with a banged up OL and receivers that are out or hampered with injuries? I don't think what you are saying is wrong, but a lot of QBs can't always throw their team on their back when key guys are out and unavailable for weeks at a time. Put another way, I am not sure substituting Brady with another QB would have made Tampa a much better team, and it's unlikely they would have been a title threat no matter who was the QB.

I agree with you. My comment was more in the context of what's next for him and risk/reward considerations that potential destination teams should be thinking about. Reality is somewhere between optimal conditions and putting a team on your back. He's not getting the former and likely isn't doing the latter. Add in that he's going to want "creative control" of the offense and he's obviously a rental, it should give teams a lot to think about.

I know he's been linked to the Dolphins for a while now, but I doubt they disrupt Tua's development to bring in TB12 for a year.

Well, the real question here is dollars and cents. Miami has two choices: Roll out Tua and cross your fingers, or get someone else and let Tua "redshirt" a year. If you are going for the former, you are still going to need to spend a little money for a backup QB, as Skylar isn't the answer at the moment w Tua still not cleared from the protocol (I know, the season is over, but he wouldn't be playing this week either if we won that game); So what does a backup QB cost vs Brady?

The other wildcard is Stephen Ross. If Tom wants to come to Miami I think Ross lets him come to Miami. The rest will have to solve itself bc the man owns the team.

 

[Tau837]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

Not a hater, quite the opposite... but he cannot move anymore! Yes, he can still lumber outside the pocket if needed but it's those slippery moves inside the pocket that have left him... just as it did Roethlisberger, Marino, Manning, and all others. I'm not certain Aaron Rogers isn't there either which is why it would not shock me if he decided to walk away. They just don't have that bounce in their step anymore.

On top of that, he's afraid to get hit. That red zone INT was beyond terrible last night. And so many other balls in the dirt or off target.

Will there be a market for Brady? Yes. There are poorly run NFL teams that annually go out and sign certain failure at QB. WAS and IND are probably already fighting over Brady... and he'll stink... like this year, only worse. They might do it just to sell some jerseys. He's not a missing piece to a Super Bowl anymore.

The Buccs won 8 games... EIGHT. In a division that is total garbage. They beat 1 team, maybe 2, with a winning record this year? They stunk. Any other division in football and they would have been toast in October.

Even GOATs die eventually... and many in pitiful fashion as they hang on too long. They want to go out in one last blaze of glory, but they just keep getting older, and slower, and it gets uglier.

#3 on PFF’s list of free agents.

2023 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Top 200 players set to enter free agency | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

We look at the 200 best players set to hit the free-agent market this offseason with free agency less than a week away.

www.pff.com

Brady has an argument to be the top player on this list, but given he may very well retire, we'll let the young bucks go ahead of him this time around. Brady’s 79.3 passing grade ranks seventh on the season, and the 16 drops by his wide receivers tied for the fifth most on the year. Granted, he threw a league-leading 733 passes this regular season, averaging nearly 45 attempts per game outside of Week 18 when he was pulled early.

Brady’s 2.5% turnover-worthy play rate ranked eighth lowest among qualifying quarterbacks, further illustrated by his streak of 399 consecutive passes without an interception

Per PFF, there were 48 QBs with at least 100 dropbacks this season. Here are some of Brady's rate metrics and ranks within that group:

• Completion percentage - 65.7%, #17
• Adjusted completion percentage (aimed passes on target, accounting for drops, throwaways, etc.) - 74.8%, #19 (yes, worse than straight completion percentage)
• Drop percentage - 5.6%, #29 (i.e., 29th highest percentage of drops)
• YPA - 6.3, #40
• ADOT - 7.3, tied for #39-40 with Garoppolo
• TD percentage - 3.4%, #29
• Big time throw percentage - 4.3%, tied for #18-22 with Prescott, Tua, Cousins, and Pickett
• Turnover worthy play percentage - 2.6%, tied for #11-13 with Wilson and Garoppolo
• Percentage of dropbacks under pressure - 20.0%, #47 (i.e., second lowest percentage of dropbacks under pressure)
• NFL passer rating - 89.2, tied for #21-22 with Stidham

That is unimpressive to say the least. It suggests that Brady needs a near perfect situation to really excel. Besides SF, what team that might want him has a near perfect situation for a QB to step into? Tampa surely does not.

 

[Dizzy]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Brady is still a solid starting QB, he's not the reason Tampa Bay lost, and was certainly not the problem with the team.

Brady also, is no longer an MVP caliber QB, who was willing a bad team to the playoffs.

I actually think Brady and Rodgers were pretty similar this season, though I think I'd rather have Brady at this point. But both teams are set up for the QB to play at an MVP level to succeed, and neither did. That's not really their fault, that's a very narrow window to crack. I think Buffalo is sort of the same with Josh Allen, and that is probably it. Guys like Mahomes and Burrow (who I think are better QBs) don't have that set up where they have to be elite week in week out, they get help, not sure the other 3 do. Buffalo is where they are, because Josh Allen has been the best QB in the NFL this season (and should be the MVP even though Mahomes has better numbers) that's what GB was in 2020 and TB in 2021.

There should rightfully be a huge market for Brady this offseason. He's still a top-12 NFL QB, and maybe higher.

Not a hater, quite the opposite... but he cannot move anymore! Yes, he can still lumber outside the pocket if needed but it's those slippery moves inside the pocket that have left him... just as it did Roethlisberger, Marino, Manning, and all others. I'm not certain Aaron Rogers isn't there either which is why it would not shock me if he decided to walk away. They just don't have that bounce in their step anymore.

On top of that, he's afraid to get hit. That red zone INT was beyond terrible last night. And so many other balls in the dirt or off target.

Will there be a market for Brady? Yes. There are poorly run NFL teams that annually go out and sign certain failure at QB. WAS and IND are probably already fighting over Brady... and he'll stink... like this year, only worse. They might do it just to sell some jerseys. He's not a missing piece to a Super Bowl anymore.

The Buccs won 8 games... EIGHT. In a division that is total garbage. They beat 1 team, maybe 2, with a winning record this year? They stunk. Any other division in football and they would have been toast in October.

Even GOATs die eventually... and many in pitiful fashion as they hang on too long. They want to go out in one last blaze of glory, but they just keep getting older, and slower, and it gets uglier.

#3 on PFF’s list of free agents.

2023 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Top 200 players set to enter free agency | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

We look at the 200 best players set to hit the free-agent market this offseason with free agency less than a week away.

www.pff.com

Brady has an argument to be the top player on this list, but given he may very well retire, we'll let the young bucks go ahead of him this time around. Brady’s 79.3 passing grade ranks seventh on the season, and the 16 drops by his wide receivers tied for the fifth most on the year. Granted, he threw a league-leading 733 passes this regular season, averaging nearly 45 attempts per game outside of Week 18 when he was pulled early.

Brady’s 2.5% turnover-worthy play rate ranked eighth lowest among qualifying quarterbacks, further illustrated by his streak of 399 consecutive passes without an interception

Clickbait. Simple as that.

And I'll give you an example of how silly a lot of this has become. There is a lot of chit-chat herein and general speculation that a possible landing spot for Brady would be San Francisco. So, let's swap him into that game vs SEA... two of Brock Purdy's TD passes were off-script and 100% due to his ability to escape and move quickly. Both of those would have been - AT BEST - sacks with Brady or worse - as we saw against DAL - "hey, here's the ball, just don't touch me!"

He's done. And he knows it, but he also knows that 23-yr old Instagram bimbos don't bang 50-yr old studio analysts... so, more power to him.

Having said all that, I'm sure he'll be in WAS colors screaming at WRs and O-linemen and smashing tablets on his way to a 7-10 record that would have been so much worse if not for the GOAT pulling out a few miracles along the way.

 

[Anarchy99]

Per PFF, there were 48 QBs with at least 100 dropbacks this season. Here are some of Brady's rate metrics and ranks within that group:

• Completion percentage - 65.7%, #17
• Adjusted completion percentage (aimed passes on target, accounting for drops, throwaways, etc.) - 74.8%, #19 (yes, worse than straight completion percentage)
• Drop percentage - 5.6%, #29 (i.e., 29th highest percentage of drops)
• YPA - 6.3, #40
• ADOT - 7.3, tied for #39-40 with Garoppolo
• TD percentage - 3.4%, #29
• Big time throw percentage - 4.3%, tied for #18-22 with Prescott, Tua, Cousins, and Pickett
• Turnover worthy play percentage - 2.6%, tied for #11-13 with Wilson and Garoppolo
• Percentage of dropbacks under pressure - 20.0%, #47
• NFL passer rating - 89.2, tied for #21-22 with Stidham

That is unimpressive to say the least. It suggests that Brady needs a near perfect situation to really excel. Besides SF, what team that might want him has a near perfect situation for a QB to step into? Tampa surely does not.

Not to give you more work to do, but Brady in 2022 seemed pretty similar and not so effective like he did circa 2019 (his last season in NE). I'm curious how these numbers looked back then. PFF's overall grade for Brady this year was 79.7. His overall grade in 2019 was 80.5.

 

[habsfan]

If I am "going for it", I want a window to win that is open a bit longer than one season. Maybe Brady is the best chance for some teams for a single season but man, you are really going to need to thread the needle on that one.

 

[ZADO]

Man, the Brady haters are out on full force it seems.

Come on man! As if you don't hate on players. And just because people think he's the GOAT doesn't mean everyone is required to like him. He and others like Lebron make it easy to root against them.

I can see why people dont like him.

He`s always in strip joints and getting in fights while drunk.
He beats women.
He`s always in the news for saying crazy crap and disrespecting his coaches and teammates.
He probably strapped with a gun when he goes out with his boyz from his old hood.

He`s a straight up punk

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Welker and Waller

Renfrow and Waller

 

[menobrown]

Welker and Waller

Renfrow and Waller

Good catch, easy to see where my mind was at.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And he knows it, but he also knows that 23-yr old Instagram bimbos don't bang 50-yr old studio analysts

Will he lose all his money. He's still a good looking rich celebrity - I'm pretty sure either way he'll have his choice of ladies.

 

[menobrown]

So is the immediate thought that Leftwich being fired is a pro or con for Brady choosing to return to Tampa?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

He probably strapped with a gun when he goes out with his boyz from his old hood

Local police referred to them as "The Brady Bunch".