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Quentin Griffin (1 Viewer)

beef

Footballguy
The curse of Clinton Portis begins! Griffin will not be a 1500 yard back and they won't have one for a while. But how long???

 
I'd say very, VERY unlikely. He would have to carry the ball 250-300 times for that, of which no way would he last that long with his size. I'd think Denver will use a number of RB's which would be more effective for them but kill us FFL'ers with another team going the RBBC route. Besides all this, you know some idiot is going to draft him super early so let him.

 

Dman30

Footballguy
Way too early to discount Quentin Griffin. The Bronco's brass thinks highly enough of Griffin that I can see them giving him first crack at the featured role. The rest is up to Griffin from there. I suspect we'll know a bit more once the team announces the Portis trade and begins to address questions from the media of a replacement back.

 

Kleck.

Footballguy
Way too early to discount Quentin Griffin. The Bronco's brass thinks highly enough of Griffin that I can see them giving him first crack at the featured role. The rest is up to Griffin from there. I suspect we'll know a bit more once the team announces the Portis trade and begins to address questions from the media of a replacement back.
Griffin may get first crack, just like Gary did in '02, but I still think Shanny is too full of himself to not draft a RB in the late 2nd-4th.I don't want to get into this until after the draft and it could easily be a situation that doesn't get figured out until week 6. It just has the early looks of '02 all over again.
 

Dman30

Footballguy
Shanny is too full of himself to not draft a RB in the late 2nd-4th.It just has the early looks of '02 all over again.
1. Shanny already has a RB drafted in the mid-rounds: Quentin Griffin (4th rounder). 2. In 2002, everybody was saying Portis was too small and couldn't handle the every week pounding. And we all know how that turned out. People are making the same mistake again with Quentin Griffin.If Griffin, were 5'11" 195 lbs. as opposed to 5'7" 195 lbs. people on this message board would be salivating all over his jock. I don't see why being 4" shorter than Portis will make Griffin any less durable than Portis.
 
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BoltBacker

Footballguy
In 2002, everybody was saying Portis was too small and couldn't handle the every week pounding. And we all know how that turned out.
Yes. We all do know how that turned out. Shanny went out and drafted Quentin Griffin in the fourth round despite already having Portis.
 

Dman30

Footballguy
Yes. We all do know how that turned out. Shanny went out and drafted Quentin Griffin in the fourth round despite already having Portis.
I guess you must have been sleeping the last two years. Despite being dubbed as "too small to be a workhorse back," Clinton Portis (at 185-205 lbs.) put up a pair of 1500+ rushing yard seasons. It's funny to see the same people around here make the same mistake with Quentin Griffin that they made with Portis by labelling them as too small to hold up to the pounding of a featured back role.
 
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JohnnyU

Footballguy
I guess you must have been sleeping the last two years. Despite being dubbed as "too small to be a workhorse back," Clinton Portis (at 185-205 lbs.) put up a pair of 1500+ rushing yard seasons. It's funny to see the same people around here make the same mistake with Quentin Griffin that they made with Portis by labelling them as too small to hold up to the pounding of a featured back role.
You would think people on this board would know better by now. Talk about sterotyping :rolleyes:
 

Limecuda

Footballguy
I'm as big a Portis fan as any and don't understand the trading away of Portis, but Portis has yet to take the pounding of a full 16 game schedule without a few bumps and a game missed. Griffin was good in college and could do very well as the starter, but realistically expect him to miss a few games with minor injuries. Saying that which rb doesn't get slowed down every year with some sort of health issue?

 

babydemon90

Footballguy
Personally, I could easily see them going after Duce (I would have said TJ, but Bears brabbed him). He'd be a lot cheaper then Dillon, and Duce is a very hard runner....behind Denver's line, Duce could easily be a 1200 yard back. Assuming the broncos want to compete THIS year...they need a veteran back.

 

Drugrunner's Alias

Footballguy
I doubt he can carry the load, maybe a RBBC between him and Galloway.However, whoever Skeletor drafts this season will be the starter in a year, only to be replaced by the next 3rd round pick taken in the 2005, and so on.It's a plug and play system.

 
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comfortably numb

Footballguy
Quite a few RB's on the market, any news if the Broncos are interested?GarnerStewartDilllonBuckhalterStaleyGeorge?maybe some more as well.

 

Drugrunner's Alias

Footballguy
Quite a few RB's on the market, any news if the Broncos are interested?GarnerStewartDilllonBuckhalterStaleyGeorge?maybe some more as well.
For what it is worth, The Titans got below the cap, and saved Eddie Goerge.
 

DaveGrumbles

Footballguy
I guess you must have been sleeping the last two years. Despite being dubbed as "too small to be a workhorse back," Clinton Portis (at 185-205 lbs.) put up a pair of 1500+ rushing yard seasons. It's funny to see the same people around here make the same mistake with Quentin Griffin that they made with Portis by labelling them as too small to hold up to the pounding of a featured back role.
Portis himself knew he was too small to take the pounding of being a workhorse back thats why he added about 20 pounds of weight between his first and second season. He still left several games injured and missed games due to those injuries so he still might not be a 'workhorse' back. That being said Portis at least has the frame to put on weight...Quentin Griffin is 5'7 and I know every time someone says a person that big can't be an every down back some guy invariably has to mention Barry Sanders. Barry is an aberration, its like when someone says that every great NBA team has been built around a big man and then someone says 'What about the Bulls?'...It's called the exception that proves the rule. Quentin is decent but the chances that he will be Barry Sanders are extremely low. EXTREMELY. I still say the chances that he wins that job outright are only about 20-25%...with 75-80% going to a free agent or they resign Mike Anderson or let Galloway and Cecil Sapp get a shot. I know Bobby Turner the RB coach is whipped on Galloway. Even if he ends up in Europe, as long as he runs strong there he will still get shot at the job come July and August.
 

Drugrunner's Alias

Footballguy
Quite a few RB's on the market, any news if the Broncos are interested?GarnerStewartDilllonBuckhalterStaleyGeorge?maybe some more as well.
He isn't getting much play yet, but I would add Dominic Rhodes to that list.
 

Kleck.

Footballguy
1. Shanny already has a RB drafted in the mid-rounds: Quentin Griffin (4th rounder). 2. In 2002, everybody was saying Portis was too small and couldn't handle the every week pounding. And we all know how that turned out. People are making the same mistake again with Quentin Griffin.If Griffin, were 5'11" 195 lbs. as opposed to 5'7" 195 lbs. people on this message board would be salivating all over his jock. I don't see why being 4" shorter than Portis will make Griffin any less durable than Portis.
I'm not going to say he is too small. I'm not a believer in RB's needing to be a certain size. I'm just saying since he drafted Portis when he had three 1000 yards rushers on the team, and Griffin when he had a 1500 yard ROY along with two 1000 yard RB's, I wouldn't be surprised to see him draft another RB.It doesn't matter if they have someone to step up or to give the job to, Shanahan loves his RB's and I would bet he drafts another one. This guy enjoys grading out rookie RB's more than us dynasty guys do.I just don't see the dust settling anytime soon on this issue. We will be still talking about who's the #1 or who will be the #1 for quite some time.
 

MrKlaw

Footballguy
Emmitt Smith5'9" 209 lbs.Barry Sanders5'8" 200 lbs. Quentin Griffin Height: 5'7" 195 lbs.Not saying he will be as good, but the height/weight ratio is almost exactly the same. One or two inches doesn't mean diddley poo.

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I have seen multiple sources (ie, not dweebs like us at a fantasy football site) that have all said Denver will be bringing in at least one other RB and that initially that will mean Griffin will not be "the guy." We as fantasy football nuts need to understand that the next guy on the depth chart does not necessarily inherit the job in real life.Now, whether that means they get a high priced free agent (like Dillon), get a top RB early in the draft, grab a RB in the later rounds, or bring in some other FA to round out the RB corps is still a big question mark.I think if it's either of the first two, Griffin is doomed. If it's either of the latter two, Griffin might still get a shot at being a RB1. If there is no clear marquee RB to start the season, I think it becomes RBBC to start the year and there will be several guys trying to win the #1 job by midseason.But those that currently think Griffin is clearly the guy will be sadly mistaken.

 

Warpig

Footballguy
I read somewhere that they were pretty high on Ahmaad Galloway. He's more the prototypical running back:5'11" 234 lbs (+/-)But then again skeletor is known for misleading information

 

aaronr28

Moderator
Quentin Griffin will lead the Broncos in rushing in 2004. I've talked myself into it.You all can either jump on board for a wild ride or simply be left behind.Ahmaad Galloway is a pipe dream...name me one NFL Europe RB that ever did anything in the NFL in the same year he played abroad. Unless they draft a RB reasonably high or sign a FA, Griffin will get a long look, and I think he'll do well.At worst, he could be the Brian Westbrook to Mike Anderson's (or someone else's) Correll Buckhalter/Duce Staley.Griffin is worth a chance, IMO. (and I just drafted him in 1 league, so that probably influenced my judgment here). :brush:

 
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BoltBacker

Footballguy
I guess you must have been sleeping the last two years. Despite being dubbed as "too small to be a workhorse back," Clinton Portis (at 185-205 lbs.) put up a pair of 1500+ rushing yard seasons. It's funny to see the same people around here make the same mistake with Quentin Griffin that they made with Portis by labelling them as too small to hold up to the pounding of a featured back role.
.... and I didn't say Portis wasn't effective. I was quoting your response to the idea Shanny will go out and draft another mid round back. Your post was;" 1. Shanny already has a RB drafted in the mid-rounds: Quentin Griffin (4th rounder).2. In 2002, everybody was saying Portis was too small and couldn't handle the every week pounding. And we all know how that turned out. People are making the same mistake again with Quentin Griffin." So how did the situation in 2002 prove that Shanny wouldn't go out and draft another midround RB this draft if he did just that when he already had Portis? Anyone guessing what Shanny will actually do with his RB situation is doing just that; guessing. If you've knows just how Shanny will use his RB's since the demise of T.Davis then I'll buy you a cigar. Based on how he's used his RB's from season to season even Shanny himself has no firm grasp of how he'll use his RB's before week #1 or even further in the season. Good luck GUESSING each week which guy it will be.
 

BoltBacker

Footballguy
That being said Portis at least has the frame to put on weight...Quentin Griffin is 5'7 and I know every time someone says a person that big can't be an every down back some guy invariably has to mention Barry Sanders. Barry is an aberration, its like when someone says that every great NBA team has been built around a big man and then someone says 'What about the Bulls?'...It's called the exception that proves the rule.
Very well said.Another good example from the NBA; How often do you hear 6'-5" college power forwards compared to Charles Barkley? For every Charles Barkley there must have been a few hundred Jerome Lanes.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Quentin Griffin will lead the Broncos in rushing in 2004. I've talked myself into it.

You all can either jump on board for a wild ride or simply be left behind.

Ahmaad Galloway is a pipe dream...name me one NFL Europe RB that ever did anything in the NFL in the same year he played abroad. Unless they draft a RB reasonably high or sign a FA, Griffin will get a long look, and I think he'll do well.

At worst, he could be the Brian Westbrook to Mike Anderson's (or someone else's) Correll Buckhalter/Duce Staley.

Griffin is worth a chance, IMO. (and I just drafted him in 1 league, so that probably influenced my judgment here). :brush:
I have a ton of respect for aaron and agree with a lot of what he says on these boards but in this case we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. No way the Broncos don't bring someone in, and Griffin (barring injury to whomever comes in) will be a fantasy afterthought this coming year.Here's the latest (care of another link on the boards):

Ex-Raider may replace Portis

By Adam Schefter

Denver Post Sports Writer

Instead of running through a hole, Charlie Garner is running to the hole Clinton Portis created.

Garner, a former Oakland Raiders running back who is a threat as a receiver and a runner, plans to visit Denver next week and is welcoming the opportunity to play for his primary rival the past three seasons.

"Charlie is so pumped," Garner's agent, Brian Levy, said Wednesday after the Broncos contacted him on the first day NFL teams were allowed to contact and sign free agents.

"He loves coach (Mike) Shana- han, admires his offense. He loves how the Broncos take care of their running backs," Levy said. "That would be an amazing marriage. With Denver's system, it would be scary what type of numbers Charlie would put up."

To procure Garner's services, the Broncos will have to outbid the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions, teams that have coaches with ties to the free-agent running back. Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden worked with Garner in Oakland, and Detroit coach Steve Mariucci worked with Garner in San Francisco.

Before finalizing any deals, Levy said he wants Garner, 32, to visit Denver next week.

"How could you not accommodate a team like Denver?" Levy said. "I'd have to be stupid not to try to figure out a way to make it work."

There is a medical question mark. Garner is scheduled to undergo knee surgery Friday for a meniscus tear that he played with last season. Levy said the surgery would sideline Garner two to three weeks, but would not jeopardize his client's chances of being ready for training camp.

Garner's enthusiasm is evident of a larger issue. Now that the Broncos have traded Portis to the Redskins, running backs are looking at Denver as an ideal destination.

"It's fair to say that running backs do desire Denver," said Denver-based agent Lamont Smith, who represents, among others, Tennessee's Eddie George and Pittsburgh's Jerome Bettis. "You have to look at the Broncos' history of success in the running game. It seems to go on despite who you plug into the position.

"Certainly Denver's a team that will commit to the run. That's a big thing in today's era. A lot of the teams out there seem to have moved away from the run and have tried to come forth with these high-tech passing games. But Denver's been a team that's remained committed to the running game. That's a big feather in their cap and a significant lure for any free-agent running back out there."

Garner is a versatile back who twice has rushed for more than 1,000 yards in a season - 1,229 in 1999 and 1,142 in 2000 - both times for the 49ers. His receiving ability makes him difficult to defend.

During the Raiders' run to the Super Bowl in 2002, Garner caught 91 passes for 941 yards. During each of the past five seasons, he has not caught fewer than the 48 receptions he had last year.

Portis rushed for 1,591 yards and caught 38 passes for 314 yards last season. During his rookie season in 2002, Portis rushed for 1,508 yards and caught 33 passes for 364 yards.

While pursuing Garner, Denver could have a difficult time retaining its own free agents.

Broncos defensive end Bertrand Berry arrived in Dallas on Wednesday evening and will spend today meeting with the Cowboys' coaches.

Berry would like to remain in Denver but, as he admitted: "It's the Cowboys, for goodness' sake. Who can't get excited about putting the star on the side of your helmet?"

Broncos outside linebacker Ian Gold also drew interest Wednesday. Gold was arranging a visit next week to the New York Jets. Other teams with outside linebacker needs that could pursue Gold are the Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Giants and Seattle Seahawks.

Gold's agent, Carl Poston, said the chance his client would re-sign with the Broncos is remote.

The chance appears greater Garner will wind up in Denver, a prospect not likely to please the Raiders.

"You want to put your client in the best possible situation," Levy said. "You want to make sure he is financially satisfied, but you also don't want him calling you in Week 8 and saying, 'I can't keep losing.'

"And with Charlie in Denver, there's no reason the Broncos shouldn't be one of the top two or three favorites in the AFC this season."

Link
Cheers
 
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Dman30

Footballguy
So people say that Quentin Griffin is too small at 5'7" 195 lbs. to be the featured back? I have the answer! Let's bring in Charlie Garner at 5'10" 190 lbs. to be the featured back. :rolleyes:

 

jester

Footballguy
is griffen the next 1500 yard broncos back? or do you think they will try to bring in a back like staley?
Joez, I say you trade him away if he's on your team. Try to get a good solid draft pick or a receiver for him... I'm sure someone will want to do the trade.. :yes:
 
Griffith is one of those backs in a great system....however he will not be the next 1500 yard rusher for the broncs. he is too small and denvers line is getting old. not too much longer before that system falters and no more great rbs will come out of denver...

 

Chaos

Footballguy
A lot of people are down on Q starting in DEN mainly (as far as I can tell) because of his size.When I analyze this I first ask what are key ingredients that make DEN RBs successfull. Of course the line and blocking scheme come to mind first. Secondly its the playcalling which allows for the back to "find his hole" and go to it with high emphasis on the cutback. Portis was seemingly a master at this and furthermore was blazing fast and punished defenders who didn't cover their gap or responsibility by overpursuing. I think O Gary and M Anderson were also patient enough to make this work but not fast enough to equal Portis' ypc.When I think about Q's strengths and weaknesses as they fit into the DEn scheme they are as follows.1) very patient runner who can find his hole-this alone will allow him to be successfull as the feature guy2)super swivel hips that make guys miss as he seemingly turns on a dime-he will beat some LBs and DBs for big gains with this skill3)he carries his weight in his legs mainly thighs and butt- this not only makes him harder to bring down with arm tackles it also allows him to take on big pass rushers in blocking which allows him to remain in on passing downs4)his speed is not Portis' so I expect his ypc to be closer the 4.6-4.9 range, still good but not his strength5) to be fair, his height has some people worred about durability. I think his compact frame will protect him to some degree and I don't view this as a weakness but I know some do.6)M Anderson, Potential FA signee, or some rookie draft stealling carries? This one is hard to gauge but my instincts say M Anderson stays at FB, no FA will be signed but Shanny will draft a later pick RB. It will take some time for a rook to cut into Q's production so to me this still gives him the feature role at season start.The area I don't have a firm grasp of is his pass catching skills. Did he do much in college? Portis did not catch that many so this isn't critical to his success but it could help.All in all, when I break this down (with my limited knowledge ) I can easily imagine Q getting his shot this year and keeping it.This is of course just my opinion. It is fun to analyze!!

 

derek316

Footballguy
4)his speed is not Portis' so I expect his ypc to be closer the 4.6-4.9 range, still good but not his strength
If you are a running back who averages 4.6-4.9 yds per carry, that IS your strength. And it is better than "good". Priest Holmes didn't even average that much last year! :wacko:
 

jurb26

Footballguy
4)his speed is not Portis' so I expect his ypc to be closer the 4.6-4.9 range, still good but not his strength
I would say that you are greatly overestimating the ability of Griffin in this projection. He only managed a 3.7 YPC all of last year without Ds keying on him and in his only good game vs. Indy he still only put up 4.9. I will be very surprised if he manages to go for 4.6-4.9 next year as a featured back. I would say its more like 4.0.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
I will not complain if Griffin starts and gets 4.0 ypc. :thumbup:
I would be pleased as well. The main concern I have with Griffin is the fact that he has not scored a TD yet! Even in the game vs. Indy when he rumbled for over 130, he could not find the endzone. :confused: It seems like there are some guys who have a nose for the endzone and maybe Griffin just isn't one of them. I mean over a 100 touches last year and no TDs. Portis was a scoring machine with at least 14 TDs in each of his two years! This without playing the full 16. I know that most of this can be blamed for his lack of being a featured player, just sticking up the red flag thats all.
 

The Juggernaut

The Man. The Myth
The main concern I have with Griffin is the fact that he has not scored a TD yet! Even in the game vs. Indy when he rumbled for over 130, he could not find the endzone. It seems like there are some guys who have a nose for the endzone and maybe Griffin just isn't one of them.
and
The area I don't have a firm grasp of is his pass catching skills. Did he do much in college? Portis did not catch that many so this isn't critical to his success but it could help.
2002 college stats for QJudging by his last year in college, he can both catch passes (35 for 264 yds and 3 tds, 6th in rec's on the team), and find the endzone (15 rushing tds, 1st on the team). Sure its not the NFL, but to say he maybe doesnt have a nose for the endzone is absurd. If I remember right he had like 5 rushing tds against Texas alone in 01.
 

Chaos

Footballguy
I'm sorry for the confusing statement about YPC in the speed section.What I meant was the following. I don't think he is a "speed back" so speed is not his strength. Speed for Portis translated into high ypc. On speed alone Griffen is probably around a 4.0 ypc. Why I think he will be 4.6-4.9 is based on his elusiveness, strong hard to tackle running style and ability to find the right lane.We shall see I suppose and this debate will only be settled on the field.

 

jurb26

Footballguy
and2002 college stats for QJudging by his last year in college, he can both catch passes (35 for 264 yds and 3 tds, 6th in rec's on the team), and find the endzone (15 rushing tds, 1st on the team). Sure its not the NFL, but to say he maybe doesnt have a nose for the endzone is absurd. If I remember right he had like 5 rushing tds against Texas alone in 01.
Thats all good that he was able to do these things in college. That however doesn't always transfer over to the NFL. I won't bother to list all of the guys to put up monster numbers in college only to bust in the NFL, as there is no way I could even think of them all. Now I'm not sayin he is or will be a bust, it is clearly too early to tell. Untill he finds the endzone in the NFL I will have my doubts though.
 

The_Commish

Footballguy
I'm on the Griffin bandwagon...in fact, I just traded LaMont Jordan and Teyo Johnson for Griffin and Eddie Kennison!I wasn't on the Olandis Gary bandwagon before his big season. I wasn't on the Mike Anderson bandwagon, either. The Denver system keeps turning out big time fantasy backs, so I'll take a chance on Griffin for a year. As for the pounding of smaller backs, I always thought the pounding backs took was most closely correlated to their style of running (north-south...upright) as opposed to their physical size. I'm reminded of Earl Campbell, who was a behemoth of a runner, but didn't last for too many great seasons because of his running style. Other runners have been smaller in stature, but they last longer becuase they never seem to take the "big hits." It seems to me that Griffin's low center of gravity and his twisting, darting style make it harder for defenders to get big licks on him.

 

Nucular George

Footballguy
...It's called the exception that proves the rule...
I know this is a tangent, but can you please explain this reasoning. This "concept" seems mutally exclusive. Is it an exception? Or does it prove the rule? If it proves the rule, then by definition it would mean that it falls within the the bounds of the rule. Either it is evidence to prove the rule, or it is evidence to disprove the rule. One or the other.In terms of this discussion, your point was that Griffin is not Barry Sanders. Is that correct? You basically say that since Barry Sanders was such an anomoly as a player (a very small RB who excelled), that Griffin can not possibly be nearly as successful as Sanders. One question comes to my mind when thinking about that line of reasoning --- Is there ever going to be another Barry Sanders? And by "Barry Sanders" I don't mean a guy who can juke three Chicago Bears defenders out of their pants with two moves. I mean a guy who is remarkably smaller than the ideal NFL RB who can become successful in the NFL for a decent period of time.I would really like for you to explain in detail exactly why Quentin Griffin can not be the next Barry Sanders. And I mean other than Barry Sanders is "the exception that proves the rule". That does nothing to break down the fundamental similarities and differences between them.I do have an opinion on whether Griffin can be a very successful RB. Just for the record, I do not think he can. And it is not because he is no Barry Sanders. I simply think that he would not excel in Denver's system for anything other than spot duty. Denver's system is designed to have the RB hit the gaps in the line. If the RB actually gets outside by bouncing the play that way, then fine. But Denver does not run very many outside pitches. There are obviously some sweeps and such, but that has not been their typical running play.Despite some assertions to the contrary, Portis is a very capable inside runner. I think that is what the Denver offense would miss if Griffin were to be the starting RB. Look at how Terrell Davis got many of his yards. I can not remember how many times I recall Davis hitting the hole against the Raiders between the tackles and hitting the secondary for a 10 yard gain. Or he would start between the tackles and then bounce the play outside after clearing the line. THAT is Denver's running game in a nutshell -- hit the gaps between the tackles hard and try to see where "daylight" develops. And as a Broncos fan for 20 years, I have really enjoyed watching whichever RB has the ball do exactly that over the years.
 
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Anarchy99

Footballguy
Everything I have seen being reported is that Griffin will not be the guy and Denver will be bringing in a FA and/or draft another RB. In other words, it looks like even Denver doesn't think Griffin will be starting. If anyone has anything they can post to the contrary, I would be interested in reading it (please post a link).

 

Dman30

Footballguy
In other words, it looks like even Denver doesn't think Griffin will be starting. If anyone has anything they can post to the contrary, I would be interested in reading it (please post a link).
I'd like YOU to post a link that shows Denver DOESN'T think Griffin can be starting. We'll be waiting for the link. Also, you sound like the master of the obvious. Of course Denver will be looking to bring in a free agent, and they most certainly will draft another RB. They just lost a RB, they'll replace him. But in no way does that mean whoever comes in can win the starting job. They need another RB body on the depth chart, that's plain obvious. But for you to think whoever they pick up/draft is their starter is plain absurd at this point in time. Griffin has just as good a chance as anybody to win the feature back role in camp. The job is up for grabs.
 
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