Question about league ethics? (1 Viewer)

[Raptors]

Guys, I have a scenerio I'd like to play out for you here...

You're in an internet money league. All lineup changes, etc are made on a site much like MFL. One of the owners sends the Commish a private message prior to kickoff asking the Commish to make waiver move for him to acquire player X and start player X in place of player Y for him. This owner also makes a completely unrelated post on the league's message board at about the same time. The Commish does not get the PM in time to make the moves. No changes happen throughout the entire weekend of games to this owner's lineup. The owner says nothing publicly during this entire time. The Commish comes in after all games are complete and says that this owner made a move and he started player X (we're still not yet sure who player X is started in place of though). There is a lot of discussion that is now taking place on the board between all league participants (including the Commish, this owner, and yourself). It's at least a day that goes by before you even find out who he was subbing out for player X. As it turns out, it was that team's lowest scoring player (how convenient eh)?

So, here are the questions...

1. Would you have any problem with the results being changed because of allowing this owner to make this sub?

2. Would you ask that anything be done differently by this owner or the Commish in the future?

EDIT to add (for clarity): The waiver move was actually made earlier in the week via the message board. After making the claim on the message board, owners are required to then go to the league site to request the move be processed. The owner forgot to make that request on the league site so the Commish did not process it. That's part of the reason the owner sent the PM to the Commish - to apologize for forgetting to make the request on the league site and to then request the lineup change. The Commish did not read any of the PMs prior to all games being completed and the owner made no other effort to inform the league of the change to his lineup. The waiver pickup is not in question. It's only the starting lineup change that is. Sorry for the confusion above.

 

[Max Power]

is it standard for owners to make lineup moves through the commish?

 

[benm3218]

Guys, I have a scenerio I'd like to play out for you here...You're in an internet money league. All lineup changes, etc are made on a site much like MFL. One of the owners sends the Commish a private message prior to kickoff asking the Commish to make waiver move for him to acquire player X and start player X in place of player Y for him. This owner also makes a completely unrelated post on the league's message board at about the same time. The Commish does not get the PM in time to make the moves. No changes happen throughout the entire weekend of games to this owner's lineup. The owner says nothing publicly during this entire time. The Commish comes in after all games are complete and says that this owner made a move and he started player X (we're still not yet sure who player X is started in place of though). There is a lot of discussion that is now taking place on the board between all league participants (including the Commish, this owner, and yourself). It's at least a day that goes by before you even find out who he was subbing out for player X. As it turns out, it was that team's lowest scoring player (how convenient eh)?So, here are the questions...1. Would you have any problem with the results being changed because of allowing this owner to make this sub?2. Would you ask that anything be done differently by this owner or the Commish in the future?

It's the owners and secondly Commish's job to get it done before kick-off. That being said, a similar situation has happened in my league before. That owner went onto the msg board and notified entire league in a post that the change was supposed to be made and that the Commish had a time stamped msg from him to back it up. That way it was all out in the open. In the scenario you describe, I would DEFINITELY have a problem with it. It's too late and tough luck in my book. A learning experience for that other owner.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

is it standard for owners to make lineup moves through the commish?

Exactly. There needs to be a standard policy in place which features documentation including timestamp for league transactions facilitated by commissioner.

 

[coachjim]

I can see why you are upset. I am commissioner of a league and if I receive and email from an owner prior to the stated deadline to perform a waiver and start a certain player in place of another as long as the owner gives me the players involved pror to kickoff then fine. No way should a change be made after the fact and any player he chooses be allowed to be benched.

 

[Avery]

Assuming that last minute waiver moves are allowed in your league (as opposed to a one-a-week waiver wire, for example), I would e-mail the commish and my opponent directly a post on the league website (something like, "I just picked up player X and would like to start him instead of player Y."). Then there's no debate as to your intention and when you made that decision.

In this case, as long as there is a time stamped message from the owner to the commish, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

In the league I commish you must notify the commish and your opponent if you mean to make a change and can't do it via the internet. I guess I don't understand why he could send an email and post on the MB but not make the moves himself?

 

[hove]

is it standard for owners to make lineup moves through the commish?

Exactly. There needs to be a standard policy in place which features documentation including timestamp for league transactions facilitated by commissioner.

As a commish, I only take emails (for the time stamp) that I can easily forward to the league if for some reason the above scenario happened. No IM, no text msg, no phone call. Has worked out so far.

 

[Pipes]

Why couldn't the owner pick up the player through the site on is own? You can set it up on MFL to do a waivers run lets say Wednesday night then allow first come first served waivers up until kickoff of the Sunday's games.

What are the league rules regarding waivers? If the commish is supposed to do a waiver run on Sunday morning then the transaction should be allowed since it's a commishes screw up. If the league is not set up that way then too bad for the owner trying to make the last minute move. League rules should dictate what happens next and if they don't then shame on the commish.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Here's your real ethical problem: Do you believe the commish or not? Do you believe the owner or not?

If you believe these guys, then the guy made a legal change in time. No problem. Sorry the other owner thought he was playing against a different lineup. He wasn't.

Why are people so obsessed with earning cheap wins by dodging the guys an owner wanted to start? Spend less time looking for loopholes to preserve a victory and start better players. If a guy honestly started someone else...he started someone else.

Doesn't a PM have a timestamp on it? The commish can see if it was made in time or not. If it was, it's a valid change. Are you saying the other owner doesn't believe the commish? What kind of league is that?

 

[flooredyas]

In the league I commish you must notify the commish and your opponent if you mean to make a change and can't do it via the internet. I guess I don't understand why he could send an email and post on the MB but not make the moves himself?

Raptors, need the rules reguarding waiver moves. That you haven't posted.

 

[pollardsvision]

i'd have a problem with it.

with the exact way you explain that scenario, there are just too many fishy things going on.

it's happened in my leagues and the owner always posts the details as quickly as possible (preferrably, before the sub-player goes off)

if the commish has the time-stamped PM the details, i'd be fine with it though.

 

[Pipes]

Why are people so obsessed with earning cheap wins by dodging the guys an owner wanted to start? Spend less time looking for loopholes to preserve a victory and start better players. If a guy honestly started someone else...he started someone else.

Who's looking for cheap wins? We really need to see what the league rules say regarding this. If the league allows last minute waiver pickups then why didn't the website allow the owner just to pick the guy up?

 

[benm3218]

Why are people so obsessed with earning cheap wins by dodging the guys an owner wanted to start? Spend less time looking for loopholes to preserve a victory and start better players. If a guy honestly started someone else...he started someone else.

Who's looking for cheap wins? We really need to see what the league rules say regarding this. If the league allows last minute waiver pickups then why didn't the website allow the owner just to pick the guy up?

EXACTLY. its not a cheap win if like my league it locks 5 mins before and the owner tried to get commish to change last second. In that case, tough luck. change it 15 or 30 mins before not 2 minutes.

 

[nola]

All the time stamp, trust, other B.S. aside... If the owner didn't say who "player x" was replacing in his starting lineup, he is SOL.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Why are people so obsessed with earning cheap wins by dodging the guys an owner wanted to start? Spend less time looking for loopholes to preserve a victory and start better players. If a guy honestly started someone else...he started someone else.

Who's looking for cheap wins? We really need to see what the league rules say regarding this. If the league allows last minute waiver pickups then why didn't the website allow the owner just to pick the guy up?

Someone who doesn't want to accept that the commish got the request in time and thought the lineup they saw was their opponent. They're looking for a cheap win. I don't know why the guy didn't pick up the player himself. I do know that (according to the post) the guy said he contacted the commish in time and the commish confirmed that he got the request in time. So what's the big deal? Is it that some crybaby wants to negate a valid change, or nobody believes the commish? If it's the former, the guy needs to start better players instead of looking for a cheap win. If it's the latter...drop out of the league now. If you can't trust the commissioner, you shouldn't be in the league. Nothing good can come out of that situation. Lose/lose.Edit: To be fair, there are a few unanswered questions here. It's not really about how cumbersome the rule book is...but why he didn't just do it himself. I'd like to know why, but I also think people should trust the commish.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Why are people so obsessed with earning cheap wins by dodging the guys an owner wanted to start? Spend less time looking for loopholes to preserve a victory and start better players. If a guy honestly started someone else...he started someone else.

Who's looking for cheap wins? We really need to see what the league rules say regarding this. If the league allows last minute waiver pickups then why didn't the website allow the owner just to pick the guy up?

EXACTLY. its not a cheap win if like my league it locks 5 mins before and the owner tried to get commish to change last second. In that case, tough luck. change it 15 or 30 mins before not 2 minutes.

Well, I didn't consider that scenario. You're right. If the thing locks and he is trying to override the rules then that's a different story. I didn't get that impression, but it is vague so we can't rule it out. I meant if he made the request in time and the commish can verify that it was done in time.

 

[Max Power]

I dont get it...there are league out there where you cant make all lineup / waiver moves yourself?