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Ramses Barden (1 Viewer)

Bri

Footballguy
He looked good often in training camp last year but was deemed not ready and never really got onto the field because of that.

He's done well recently and has received praise for his work in the community, time with coaches, film room.

Sounds like the right transition for a young WR, coming along well.

Now what though?

Nicks, Mario, Smith...where's he find time?

At 6-6 he's going to be hard to cover for some CBs and if he's doing well the Gmen are not likely to sit him yet...Nicks, Mario, Smith.

 
Its difficult to see him get time in three WR sets. I believe he can be categorized as a project. My recollection was that he needed work on running patterns and reading defences. Perhaps he can work his way into the lineup in four WR sets and red zone play (the thought was that he could replace Burress in end-zone fades). Hopefully they give him a try, but with Hicks, Smith and Manningham all performing well last year, its difficult to see Ramses playing much barring injury to one of the top three.

 
He's another ......? who was that red zone WR for Jacksonville who got traded and convertred to a TE? My mind is blank at the moment, but that's who he reminds me of.

 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246159

NFL Draft Scout report

Overview

The most physically imposing receiver in the 2009 NFL Draft, Barden proved in postseason All-Star games and at the Combine that while he might not have played at the major college level, he is a major talent. His size, strength and long stride have scouts comparing him to former Denver Broncos standout Shannon Sharpe, present Bronco Brandon Marshall and San Diego's Vincent Jackson, all who proved that while they might tower over cornerbacks, they can also play in the short-area passing attack.

Barden broke numerous school and Great West Conference records. He joined David Ball of New Hampshire (58, 2003-06) and Jerry Rice of Mississippi Valley State (50, 1981-84) as the only players in NCAA Division I-AA/Football Championship Subdivision to catch 50 touchdown passes in a career. He had at least one touchdown in 32 games, breaking Rice's old NCAA record of 26 games with a scoring grab.

Barden put together a string of 20 consecutive games with a touchdown reception, again erasing one of Rice's records (Rice had a string of 17 games from 1983-84). He became just the eighth player in FCS annals to gain over 4,000 yards receiving in a career and his average of 20.4 yards per reception is the best by a receiver at this level since Dedric Ward of Northern Iowa produced a career average of 22.02 yards (1993-96).

At Flintridge Preparatory High School, Barden was a four-sport standout. On the gridiron, the receiver and free safety earned All-Prep League, All-CIF-Southern Section and all-area (Pasadena-Glendale) honors in addition to all-state accolades in the small schools division. He led the Rebels (12-1) to the CIF-Southern Section Division XIII title as a senior, when he caught 41 passes for 915 yards and 14 touchdowns.

Barden also played basketball, volleyball and track. On the hardwood, he averaged 17.2 points and eight rebounds a game. He was named all-league three times and All-CIF twice in basketball and named Cal-Hi Sports small schools Athlete of the Year. An Honor Roll member as a junior and senior, he participated in Peer Counseling, the Minority Student Union as a club director and was an Alliance Camp counselor.

Barden visited Penn and San Diego State before enrolling at Cal Poly. He redshirted in 2004, taking over "X" receiver duties the following season. He earned All-Great West Conference first-team honors, leading the team with 40 receptions for 655 yards (16.4 avg.) and nine touchdowns. He also excelled on special teams, making one solo tackle while using his 6:06 frame to block a pair of field goals.

Professional scouts started to notice what opposing defensive coordinators already knew -- Barden was a man among boys at this level of competition. He received All-America and All-Great West recognition as a sophomore, as he pulled down 42 passes, including 39 for first downs in 2006. That year, he generated 824 yards receiving (19.6 avg.), finding the end zone five times.

As a junior, Barden was a consensus All-America choice. He ranked second in the nation with 1,467 yards receiving, catching 57 passes that included 18 touchdowns. His average of 25.74 yards per catch was the highest mark by an FCS player since Mikhael Ricks of Stephen F. Austin averaged 28.89 yards per reception in 1997. He led the league and placed 11th in the nation in scoring, averaging 9.82 points per game while lining up at the "Z" receiver position.

Barden continued to generate considerable national attention as a senior. He was again named to virtually every All-America team, leading the league and ranking second nationally with an average of 114.27 yards per game receiving. He hauled in 67 passes, averaging 18.8 yards per clip, again coming up with 18 touchdowns, placing eighth in the country with an average of 9.82 points scored per game.

Analysis

Positives: Dominated FCS competition with his height and strong overall build. His long strides give him deceptive downfield speed. Takes advantage of soft coverage with receiver screens and short patterns, and has better foot quickness than expected for his size. Makes quick moves at the line to get off a jam. Able to snatch the ball with his hands, secure it and quickly turn to get additional yardage. A strong red-zone and jump-ball target due to his height, length and size. Uses his hands well while blocking on the outside, will be an asset in the run game.

Negatives: Lacks the straight-line speed to get separation from top corners, and must be more consistent using his length to create last-second separation as the ball arrives. Inconsistent hands on jump balls, where he always has the advantage. Played most of his games against a lower level of competition. Does not have the open-field quickness to evade NFL corners on the edge. Tackled easier than you'd expect because of his high pad level. Must use his size better to latch onto smaller corners when run blocking.

Scouting Report

GENERAL REPORT: GRADE: 7.18

Body Structure: Barden has a cut lower body and very long limbs and massive hands. He has good muscle development, long, muscular arms, lean waist with a good bubble, tapered thighs and calves and a frame that can carry additional bulk to possibly move to tight end or H-Back at the next level, as despite his rare size, he does look lean standing 230 at 6:06.

Athletic Ability: Barden has outstanding athletic ability, starring not only in football, but also in track in college and in track, basketball and volleyball in high school. With his big frame, he does struggle to stay down in his pads and can be taken down by a physical defensive back due to his erect stance. He lacks speed to separate deep, but does eat up the cushion with his stride and deceptive quickness. He has a good kick to him getting into his patterns and is improving his stop-and-go action, but is still a work in progress there. He plays with adequate quickness for a receiver (much better for a tight end), but adds more to his game with his superb agility, flexibility, balance and ball-adjustment skills. He cannot be considered a burner, but is very physical and strong as a runner. GRADE: 7.0

Football Sense: Barden is a good learner who only needs normal reps and understands the game well. He has received academic honors and, while he has not played in a complicated offense, will have no problems digesting a playbook. He does a good job of adjusting to what the defense gives him on the run and knows how to time his leaps to high point a lot of his catches. He has the ability to make quick adjustments vs. the defense and consistently works back to the ball. GRADE: 6.9

Character: Barden comes from a supportive family and is a good program kid who is a team guy first. He is well-liked and respected, with no off-field issues. Even though he is the featured receiver in the small college ranks, he is rather humble with good stability. His father was a standout basketball player during NYU's powerhouse days in the 1960s. Ramses is also involved in several community and charity projects. GRADE: 7.4

Competitiveness: Barden has above-average aggression and toughness for the position. He is not the type of receiver who will just go through the motions when not involved in the action. In 2008 alone, he posted 59 knockdown blocks and loves to get physical as a blocker. He will not hesitate to fight for the ball in traffic and shows the strength needed to break tackles after the catch. One of his best traits is his ability to somehow come up with the ball with a slew of defenders draped over him in a crowd. GRADE: 7.2

Work Habits: Barden is the consummate team player, always deflecting attention to others. He works in every aspect of his game to become a complete player, knowing that he will never be a gazelle of a runner, so he tries to add other "tricks to the trade" to bring more to the table than just being a pass catcher. He is a very good worker in all areas of his game, exhibiting great practice habits. He is a very coachable team player who has steadily improved throughout his career. Dependability is one of his main traits. GRADE: 7.4

ATHLETIC REPORT: GRADE: 6.33

Release: Barden has the functional strength to release and get into his routes, but lacks great straight-line speed. He uses his hands with force to get a strong push off the line of scrimmage. With his long arms and large hands, he has no problems avoiding the hold-up. With his big frame, he is not easily rerouted, but has to protect his legs better from low tackles. He knows how to use his body to gain advantage, but for a player his size, you would think that he would create better mismatches. GRADE: 6.5

Acceleration: Barden's hand quickness and ability to quickly uncover and extend for the ball make him virtually unstoppable vs. the smaller defenders in the short area. He is best served using his body to his advantage to box out the defender, as he does not have the foot speed to get behind his man on deep routes. While he has adequate deep speed, it is his body-adjustment skills and knack for tracking the high throws that allow him to excel on winning battles for the pass in a crowd. He is a long strider who gains ground more on power, as he lacks any sort of burst to separate in space. GRADE: 5.7

Quickness: Barden has just adequate speed, but compensates with his strength and length coming off the line and ability to gain advantage on the defender with his powerful stride. He has good quickness for a long body type, showing good hips, but he needs to become more elusive when trying to avoid (uses strength over speed). Still, he doesn't throttle down when not involved in the play, as he looks for other ways to help (as a blocker). GRADE: 5.9

Route Running: Due to his long upper body, he is not as sharp with cuts, and glides out of breaks more than he should. He needs work on defining his cuts better and tends to round his routes more than he should. He has deceptive speed and acceleration, but except for a few meetings vs. Wisconsin and San Diego State, he was challenged by inferior competition. He might be better served as an H-back or playing the tight end position. He is more of a power runner whose ability to drive through arm tackles is one of his better assets, but he runs too tall, leaving him open for low tackles. He shows adequate ability to separate on short routes, but needs a little polishing on out patterns. GRADE: 5.5

Separation Ability: Barden's only hope of separating is if he surprises a lethargic defender. He needs to be more explosive accelerating in and out of his break (rounds routes), and while he has the deceptive speed to run past cornerbacks at this level, he is not going to be able to have the same success in the pros. He is a big framed type that can move, but it is preferable seeing him on controlled routes than attempting to stretch the field. Still, his ability to push off a defender and uncover gives him an advantage, thanks to his size and strength. GRADE: 5.7

Ball Concentration: Barden is very confident that he can get to the throws in a crowd, but despite his size and leaping ability, there are way too many passes being deflected out of his hands. After all, how many 6:06 receivers have small defenders bat away 18 of 111 passes thrown to him? He does show good ball skills, turning short patterns and screens into big gains vs. soft coverage. He sees and feels out the defender and uses his body-adjustment skills to get to more off-target throws than expected. He also has a good knack to find the chains and work back to the ball. GRADE: 6.4

Ball Adjustment: Barden is not a stiff athlete, doing a good job of contorting his frame to make the tough catch in a crowd. When he extends for the ball, he does so with good body control and balance to pull it in, turn and run up field. He also is very smart, knowing when he needs to come back when the pocket is pressured. For a player his size, he needs to be more alert to leg tackles and he could be more assertive trying to run through tackles rather than trying to avoid. Since moving to the Z-receiver slot, he looked more natural trying to adjust to the ball and provided the QB with a big target who can go up and compete for the pass, but just needs to maintain consistency. His flexibility and ability to turn to off-target passes is because of his moves and above-average agility. GRADE: 6.6

Leaping Ability: When you are 6:06, you should get to every high pass, but he left several catchable balls behind because of inconsistent timing. He is explosive when trying to jump for the ball and he has very good arm extension, but one would figure with his track and basketball skills that he would hone his timing skills. He is a heavy load to defend, but even tougher to match up, when he uses proper timing to get to the ball at its high point. GRADE: 6.0

Hands: Barden has some of the biggest hands you will find on a receiver in this year's draft crop (10 5/8-inch measurement), which allows him to secure the ball well. He uses his body to shield the ball from the defender and while concentration lapses lead to a few drops, he is more of a natural hands catcher than one who uses his body to absorb the ball in. He is a big hands catcher, with his palms looking like mitts. He has very soft hands and, while the level of competition he faced was not top level, he rarely drops the ball. He is a natural receiver who can make the grabs away from the body's frame and also uses his hands with good force when blocking in-line. GRADE: 7.4

Run After the Catch: Barden gets good yardage with his foot work and balance, taking screens and slants without having to throttle down. He runs with good body lean, but when he gets too erect, he leaves his legs open for low tackles. He showed better cutting ability as a senior and if given soft coverage, he can turn and head upfield for big yardage. With his big frame, he will carry more than a few defenders for a couple of more yards and for a big player, he has decent hip wiggle, making him a strong runner carrying the rock. When he runs at a proper pad level, he compensates for adequate speed with his balance and strength running through defenders. GRADE: 7.1

Blocking Ability: Barden seems to enjoy this role, another reason he might be better suited bulking up to play tight end or H-Back. He works down the line with good urgency and is aggressive using his hands to sustain a lineman at the point of attack. He also shows good angle concept to cut block in the second level. He can dominate vs. secondary players and works hard to finish. He has the short-area quickness to mirror the defender and does a nice job of searching out the linebackers at the second level. He is very effective at shading and controlling the defender, taking a very physical attitude blocking for the ground game. GRADE: 6.8

Compares To: SHANNON SHARPE, ex-Denver -- Every time you see Barden with the ball in his hands, it reminds of a tall, skinny kid out of Savannah State. While scouts are concerned about the lack of competition he faced, you can't coach size and Barden has that in abundance. He is a willing blocker, a good trait to have if a team moves him to H-Back or tight end. He's not seen as a Brandon Marshall-type of big receiver because of adequate speed and he's better on slants, screens and controlled routes rather than threatening the deep secondary.

OVERALL GRADE: 6.47

With the different look and talent that Barden brings to the offense, I can see him becoming a bigger factor this year if he can show progress on a few of the things that held him back last year.

Not an ideal candidate for redraft leagues or shallow keeper league perhaps, but definitely a guy to be keeping an eye on in training camp this year.

 
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He got some action in week 17 last year and Coughlin was quoted after the game that he was really looking forward to he and the staff working with Ramses over the offseason. He's a definite hold on my dynasty roster. He could be a redzone monster.

 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246159

NFL Draft Scout report

Overview

The most physically imposing receiver in the 2009 NFL Draft, Barden proved in postseason All-Star games and at the Combine that while he might not have played at the major college level, he is a major talent. His size, strength and long stride have scouts comparing him to former Denver Broncos standout Shannon Sharpe, present Bronco Not an ideal candidate for redraft leagues or shallow keeper league perhaps, but definitely a guy to be keeping an eye on in training camp this year.

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You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246159

NFL Draft Scout report

Overview

The most physically imposing receiver in the 2009 NFL Draft, Barden proved in postseason All-Star games and at the Combine that while he might not have played at the major college level, he is a major talent. His size, strength and long stride have scouts comparing him to former Denver Broncos standout Shannon Sharpe, present Bronco Not an ideal candidate for redraft leagues or shallow keeper league perhaps, but definitely a guy to be keeping an eye on in training camp this year.

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You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
That is fine, then skip over it and move on. I found it interesting to take a look at the scouting report from last year and didn't know that Barden broke some of Rice's records. I also found the Sharpe comparison interesting, as perhaps Barden's future is at TE.

He may not be a blip on your radar; however, he is on my radar.

 
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You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246159

NFL Draft Scout report

Overview

The most physically imposing receiver in the 2009 NFL Draft, Barden proved in postseason All-Star games and at the Combine that while he might not have played at the major college level, he is a major talent. His size, strength and long stride have scouts comparing him to former Denver Broncos standout Shannon Sharpe, present Bronco Not an ideal candidate for redraft leagues or shallow keeper league perhaps, but definitely a guy to be keeping an eye on in training camp this year.

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You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
That is fine, then skip over it and move on. I found it interesting to take a look at the scouting report from last year and didn't know that Barden broke some of Rice's records. I also found the Sharpe comparison interesting, as perhaps Barden's future is at TE.

He may not be a blip on your radar; however, he is on my radar.
Not sure when he would ever get a chance in NY behind those WRs. Maybe a trade helps him?
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246159

NFL Draft Scout report

Overview

The most physically imposing receiver in the 2009 NFL Draft, Barden proved in postseason All-Star games and at the Combine that while he might not have played at the major college level, he is a major talent. His size, strength and long stride have scouts comparing him to former Denver Broncos standout Shannon Sharpe, present Bronco Not an ideal candidate for redraft leagues or shallow keeper league perhaps, but definitely a guy to be keeping an eye on in training camp this year.

.....

.....

.....
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
That is fine, then skip over it and move on. I found it interesting to take a look at the scouting report from last year and didn't know that Barden broke some of Rice's records. I also found the Sharpe comparison interesting, as perhaps Barden's future is at TE.

He may not be a blip on your radar; however, he is on my radar.
Not sure when he would ever get a chance in NY behind those WRs. Maybe a trade helps him?
Barden won't beat out Smith or Nicks, but I can see him playing ahead of Mannigham in the red zone offense. I can also see (speculation on my part) Barden being potentially converted to TE.

A trade could also improve his value for sure.

Your league size and format will dictate if he is on your radar. In smaller, redraft leagues, I can see him not being on your radar. In larger keeper or dynasty formats - you should be monitoring his development.

 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him. The Giants coaching staff knows that they have a project in Barden, but they will be working with him to try to adapt his potential into performance.
 
I'm still hanging on too, and especially since it's in deep league, perhaps time will give him some type of opportunity (although I'd certainly be happy if our WR corps succeeds as is... :stalker: )...

 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him.
This is not fantasy baseball where a player's peak is 27. If it takes Barden until he's 27 to show some promise then that's not a good omen for his fantasy football success.
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
:mellow: Excellent post SL. Too many things against him. Stud WR's in the making above him. Only really a shot at WR3 and that's a long shot. Needs to many ifs for him to really have much impact. Deep dynasties, go for it. I think I actually drafted him last year in HA1 but that crowded WR corps sorted itself well over the course of the season.
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him. The Giants coaching staff knows that they have a project in Barden, but they will be working with him to try to adapt his potential into performance.
I agree with this. I think Miles Austin is a good example. Came into the league raw but with good physical attributes (and was behind T.O., Roy Williams, and others). Finally busted out in his 4th year in the league and made the Pro Bowl. Austin is definitely more the exception than the norm, but I think too early to write Barden off.
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him.
This is not fantasy baseball where a player's peak is 27. If it takes Barden until he's 27 to show some promise then that's not a good omen for his fantasy football success.
Don't most recivers take 3 years to peak?
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him. The Giants coaching staff knows that they have a project in Barden, but they will be working with him to try to adapt his potential into performance.
I see your point, but the truth is, nothing can substitute for game day experience (which is why the loss of NFL Europe was unfortunate). If he does not get on the field in 2010 (which is possible, as what really has changed with the Giants WR corp), then he has spent two years without being in a game...personally, I think that would be hard to overcome. Also, is Hixon still on the team?
 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him.
This is not fantasy baseball where a player's peak is 27. If it takes Barden until he's 27 to show some promise then that's not a good omen for his fantasy football success.
It may not take Barden 4 years to develop, and WRs can be productive into their early to mid 30s in the NFLThis time last year a ton of people were overlooking Sidney Rice. While Barden is further behind in his development and has a deeper pool of WRs to beat out, it isn't inconceivable that he can have some FF relevant value.Ignore him and overlook him if you wish. I will be following his progress this year and next year. He may end up on a few of my teams this year, he may not.
 
-- Nice one-handed catch at the end.I am looking forward to seeing how he develops going forward. Would like to see him catch on with a team who is dedicated to getting him some touches.

 
Just the type of guy I take a flier on after his rookie owner gives up on him, a project like him shouldn't have had any expectations last year. Year 2 will tell a lot more than year 1.

 
You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him. The Giants coaching staff knows that they have a project in Barden, but they will be working with him to try to adapt his potential into performance.
I agree with this. I think Miles Austin is a good example. Came into the league raw but with good physical attributes (and was behind T.O., Roy Williams, and others). Finally busted out in his 4th year in the league and made the Pro Bowl. Austin is definitely more the exception than the norm, but I think too early to write Barden off.
The thing about Austin was the opportunity. Who was his competition for the WR2 reps in Dallas last year and who was the WR1?Barden lacks that opportunity. Smith is coming off a good year, Nicks is coming off a good year for a rookie and Manningham showed enough promise last year to get significant PT.Last year Barden was up against Nicks and Manningham who were also young and just as unproven at the NFL level. And yet both Nicks and Manningham smoked him in terms of PT.Unless they go somewhere, Barden doesn't do anything but role play behind them. Smith and Nicks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I think it would take another year or two of inconsistency from Manningham before the Giants aggresively try and move him. He's still seen as a talented WR in his own right but requiring a little more maturing than originally thought. And the more PT they get and more Barden doesn't get, his chances of developing into a fantasy relevant WR shrink. I wouldn't cut him loose unnecessarily if you are in a deep, deep league. But I'd also look keep my eyes open for young developing WR talent on other rosters with less between them and a starting gig. Those guys are the ones to target.
 
Ignore him and overlook him if you wish. I will be following his progress this year and next year. He may end up on a few of my teams this year, he may not.
But I think that's the key. The deeper pool is what sinks him. It's all about talent +opportunity. I don't mind his talent, but his opportunity sucks.Marshall was a raw but physically gifted WR. Who was he competing against for reps when he emerged? Who was Rice competing against for reps last season? Barden isn't so nicely placed.Sure, Barden might get traded or injuries might derail one of the guys in front of him, but I'd rather target a guy who doesn't need that kind of luck and merely has to emerge from guys who are just as unproven or on the decline than I would a guy with young peers that are simply outperforming him thus far.
 
I agree with this. I think Miles Austin is a good example. Came into the league raw but with good physical attributes (and was behind T.O., Roy Williams, and others). Finally busted out in his 4th year in the league and made the Pro Bowl. Austin is definitely more the exception than the norm, but I think too early to write Barden off.
The thing about Austin was the opportunity. Who was his competition for the WR2 reps in Dallas last year and who was the WR1?Barden lacks that opportunity. Smith is coming off a good year, Nicks is coming off a good year for a rookie and Manningham showed enough promise last year to get significant PT.Last year Barden was up against Nicks and Manningham who were also young and just as unproven at the NFL level. And yet both Nicks and Manningham smoked him in terms of PT.Unless they go somewhere, Barden doesn't do anything but role play behind them. Smith and Nicks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I think it would take another year or two of inconsistency from Manningham before the Giants aggresively try and move him. He's still seen as a talented WR in his own right but requiring a little more maturing than originally thought. And the more PT they get and more Barden doesn't get, his chances of developing into a fantasy relevant WR shrink. I wouldn't cut him loose unnecessarily if you are in a deep, deep league. But I'd also look keep my eyes open for young developing WR talent on other rosters with less between them and a starting gig. Those guys are the ones to target.
Yes, Austin had that opportunity in 2009, but I don't think Barden's opportunity this year is much different from Austin's opportunity in 2007 or 2008. I recognize that a substantial difference is that Austin was behind an aging player in T.O., and the Giants don't have a similar WR on the decline, but team's personnel change, in general. Just because an opportunity is not there this year does not automatically mean an opportunity won't be there in another year or two.I had Austin sitting on my dynasty roster well before T.O. was cut and Austin's opportunity was clear; I prefer to be early to the party rather than late to it.
 
Just the type of guy I take a flier on after his rookie owner gives up on him, a project like him shouldn't have had any expectations last year. Year 2 will tell a lot more than year 1.
as that rookie owner in one league.. I am in that dilemma. Do I want to compromise a spot for him, or try my luck at grabbing a someone closer to the surface of the depth chart...

tough call, what are the odds he breaks into the Starting linup in new york? 10% (barring injury) can he be the 4th or third guy in 2010?

 
Just the type of guy I take a flier on after his rookie owner gives up on him, a project like him shouldn't have had any expectations last year. Year 2 will tell a lot more than year 1.
as that rookie owner in one league.. I am in that dilemma. Do I want to compromise a spot for him, or try my luck at grabbing a someone closer to the surface of the depth chart...

tough call, what are the odds he breaks into the Starting linup in new york? 10% (barring injury) can he be the 4th or third guy in 2010?
I think if he makes progress this camp and Mario doesn't correct his issues Barden gets a long look at the #3 role, maybe not until the end of the season or more likely 2011 though. Guys like Barden, very raw but with football skills, need 2 seasons before you really know if you may have something or not.
 
I agree with this. I think Miles Austin is a good example. Came into the league raw but with good physical attributes (and was behind T.O., Roy Williams, and others). Finally busted out in his 4th year in the league and made the Pro Bowl. Austin is definitely more the exception than the norm, but I think too early to write Barden off.
The thing about Austin was the opportunity. Who was his competition for the WR2 reps in Dallas last year and who was the WR1?Barden lacks that opportunity. Smith is coming off a good year, Nicks is coming off a good year for a rookie and Manningham showed enough promise last year to get significant PT.

Last year Barden was up against Nicks and Manningham who were also young and just as unproven at the NFL level. And yet both Nicks and Manningham smoked him in terms of PT.

Unless they go somewhere, Barden doesn't do anything but role play behind them. Smith and Nicks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I think it would take another year or two of inconsistency from Manningham before the Giants aggresively try and move him. He's still seen as a talented WR in his own right but requiring a little more maturing than originally thought.

And the more PT they get and more Barden doesn't get, his chances of developing into a fantasy relevant WR shrink. I wouldn't cut him loose unnecessarily if you are in a deep, deep league. But I'd also look keep my eyes open for young developing WR talent on other rosters with less between them and a starting gig. Those guys are the ones to target.
Yes, Austin had that opportunity in 2009, but I don't think Barden's opportunity this year is much different from Austin's opportunity in 2007 or 2008. I recognize that a substantial difference is that Austin was behind an aging player in T.O., and the Giants don't have a similar WR on the decline, but team's personnel change, in general. Just because an opportunity is not there this year does not automatically mean an opportunity won't be there in another year or two.I had Austin sitting on my dynasty roster well before T.O. was cut and Austin's opportunity was clear; I prefer to be early to the party rather than late to it.
I'll disagree with that to some extent. An aging T.O. on the decline (and thus on the way out or at least losing some PT) is a pretty different situation than being boxed in by three young guys on the upswing who are keeping you on the bench. All you have to do is project out a year or two and the Dallas situation predicted an intentional move away from T.O. That same prediction isn't there for New York.In other words, what were the odds that T.O. wouldn't be the WR1 in 2009 when you looked at it from 2008? What are the odds that the WR1 in New York will be open to Barden in 2010? Sure, change is the one constant. But not all change comes at even odds.

I grabbed Austin in a couple of leagues last year without any trouble. True, I had to spend a higher pick on him than I would have in 2007 or 2008 because I wasn't the only guy watching him. But when you consider that I didn't have to waste picks on him in 2007 or 2008 to have him in 2009, I think I did alright.

And that's my point. It will take Smith, Nicks or Manningham to get moved (maybe two of them) for Barden to get a shot. And given their youth (on the upswing in their careers) it isn't likely that they get moved anytime soon. So I think you'd be better off waiting for his path to clear a little and pay a little more for him later than to stash him now. Austin was in a better situation in 2009 than he was in 2007 and 2008. That made 2009 the optimum time to snag him. That's all I'm saying. I'll opt for a young developmental guy that has a chance of emerging this year over a guy that I'm pretty sure will not be able to emerge for another year or two.

If you can't find another sleeper to replace Barden with, don't move him. But I think opportunity tends to be overlooked a little in these situations. It's one thing to bet on a developmental WR progressing enough to be capable of playing. It's a whole other to also need an injury or trade of a better WR in front of him to give him the PT. You're have to hit two steep bets rather than one in the second scenario.

That's why I'll be looking very closely at situations like the Redskins, Raiders and Seahawks this offseason for that very reason. Unproven or aging guys penciled in to be the starters, new QB or new coaching staff. A lot in flux. If the cost of that is letting someone else stash Barden on their roster for the next 3 years, I'll let him.

 
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You didn't really think I was going to read that entire scouting report on Barden did you? I'm pretty sure I know what Barden is. He's pretty damn raw. He's not even a blip on the radar yet and may never be.
well I appreciated it. Anyhow, if a young WR does well in training camp and then does well in the following minicamp including praise from coaches about time in filmroom, weight room community...that stuff, doesn't he have to be a blip on your radar?
I had an old boss who used to say recruiting was one part skill, one part luck and one part opportunity. Luck and Opportunity usually go hand-in-hand, and the OP sees this in that Barden is just stuck behind a very good and young WR corps. He is also competing with Manningham which clouds his future even more....winner gets to be WR#3?? Even if he or one of the other guys gets moved eventually, his development at this stage is definitely being stunted. Unless he has some sort miracle like Joe Horn when he left KC (was crowded and he did not get many opportunities there), he is going to be a raw 27 year old versus a raw 23 year old when he finally gets his chance. Now the "luck" in this case would be if one or two of these guys in front of him get injured, but even so, he would have to play lights out, in order to keep his position.
Except he won't be a raw player at age 27, as he will have had four years of NFL coaching invested in him.
This is not fantasy baseball where a player's peak is 27. If it takes Barden until he's 27 to show some promise then that's not a good omen for his fantasy football success.
I think that's how old Shiancoe was when he moved to Minnesota... things can work out.That said, I think Barden's a guy to watch, not a guy to hold on your roster. Maybe he could become Marcus Robinson.
 
I agree with this. I think Miles Austin is a good example. Came into the league raw but with good physical attributes (and was behind T.O., Roy Williams, and others). Finally busted out in his 4th year in the league and made the Pro Bowl. Austin is definitely more the exception than the norm, but I think too early to write Barden off.
The thing about Austin was the opportunity. Who was his competition for the WR2 reps in Dallas last year and who was the WR1?Barden lacks that opportunity. Smith is coming off a good year, Nicks is coming off a good year for a rookie and Manningham showed enough promise last year to get significant PT.Last year Barden was up against Nicks and Manningham who were also young and just as unproven at the NFL level. And yet both Nicks and Manningham smoked him in terms of PT.Unless they go somewhere, Barden doesn't do anything but role play behind them. Smith and Nicks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I think it would take another year or two of inconsistency from Manningham before the Giants aggresively try and move him. He's still seen as a talented WR in his own right but requiring a little more maturing than originally thought. And the more PT they get and more Barden doesn't get, his chances of developing into a fantasy relevant WR shrink. I wouldn't cut him loose unnecessarily if you are in a deep, deep league. But I'd also look keep my eyes open for young developing WR talent on other rosters with less between them and a starting gig. Those guys are the ones to target.
Yes, Austin had that opportunity in 2009, but I don't think Barden's opportunity this year is much different from Austin's opportunity in 2007 or 2008. I recognize that a substantial difference is that Austin was behind an aging player in T.O., and the Giants don't have a similar WR on the decline, but team's personnel change, in general. Just because an opportunity is not there this year does not automatically mean an opportunity won't be there in another year or two.I had Austin sitting on my dynasty roster well before T.O. was cut and Austin's opportunity was clear; I prefer to be early to the party rather than late to it.
That's exactly why I had Sam Hurd on my rosters. :thumbup:
 
If Beckum struggles and Barden improves, then Barden probalby won't be in as a TE, but I could see them splitting him out at the goal line.

 
this pre season hype is the only thing keeping him on one of my rosters, guy has all the skills but is buried. Just don't see how he gets any significant PT

 
this pre season hype is the only thing keeping him on one of my rosters, guy has all the skills but is buried. Just don't see how he gets any significant PT
IMO he would have to put Manningham on the Bench to be FF relevant. Otherwise, he may have more value in TD only leagues as a red zone threat.
 
loose circuits said:
this pre season hype is the only thing keeping him on one of my rosters, guy has all the skills but is buried. Just don't see how he gets any significant PT
This guy is a true penny stock in FF terms right now; in those terms, I'm picking him to be the biggest stock gainer for 2010 among afterthought WRs. His unique attributes beg a role if he picks up the nuances of an NFL offense. The Giants were clearly searching for a Burress clone when they took him in the 3rd round last year, and he simply needed time coming out of a small school like Cal-Poly. I'm not so worried about Smith/Nicks/Manningham/Hixon. Each is so unlike Barden that they may very well eventually be competing against each other if Barden brings something unique to the table that they simply don't offer.
 
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I drafted him last season in the 3rd round of my rookie draft, held him a few months into the season, and then dropped him for someone else (Aromashadu, I think?). I have put a waiver request in to get him back for one of my backup LBs again this offseason, so I will see if I get him again.

The preseason hype is getting me again, although I agree that WR4 on that NYG team is about his ceiling this season.

 
loose circuits said:
this pre season hype is the only thing keeping him on one of my rosters, guy has all the skills but is buried. Just don't see how he gets any significant PT
IMO he would have to put Manningham on the Bench to be FF relevant. Otherwise, he may have more value in TD only leagues as a red zone threat.
Yep, but that may not be a difficult task if Manningham didn't fix his glaring issues with consistency this offseason.
 
With the news that Domenik Hixon is out for the 2010 season with torn knee ligament, Barden is almost a lock to start training camp as the fourth WR behind Smith, Nicks, and Manningham - but as mentioned, he brings a very different look to the offense then the other three.

Still not recommended for the average redraft league, but deeper keeper and dynasty leagues should watch his development this year very closely.

 
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With the news that Domenik Hixon is out for the 2010 season with torn knee ligament, Barden is almost a lock to start training camp as the fourth WR behind Smith, Nicks, and Manningham - but as mentioned, he brings a very different look to the offense then the other three.Still not recommended for the average redraft league, but deeper keeper and dynasty leagues should watch his development this year very closely.
Agreed. I got to see barden ALOT the last year I was in SoCal/LA - not just playing but working out, training and doing a ton of work to get ready for the draft.Was VERY impressed with his work ethic as well as ability, though he was very raw.I think in a few years he'll prove to be a worthwhile addition to your dynasty bench.
 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.

 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.

 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.
:lmao:
 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.
So you're saying that Nicks and Manningham are proven, established receivers in this league? Now granted, Nicks has a ton of talent and the sky is the limit...but proven he is not. Manningham is far from proven.The point is that if someone is a believer in Barden being a big-time receiver, the talent in front of him is no better or worse than talent all across the league. De-valuing him because of Mario Manningham is a huge mistake, IF you think he's going to be a stud.

 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.
So you're saying that Nicks and Manningham are proven, established receivers in this league? Now granted, Nicks has a ton of talent and the sky is the limit...but proven he is not. Manningham is far from proven.The point is that if someone is a believer in Barden being a big-time receiver, the talent in front of him is no better or worse than talent all across the league. De-valuing him because of Mario Manningham is a huge mistake, IF you think he's going to be a stud.
I think most feel Barden has potential and are watching him to see if he starts beating guys out. At most I thought he might beat out Hixon this summer, with the injury that 4th wr battle is between Barden and Hagan. I expect Barden to win that, and if he does then we can start talking about him beating out Mannigham and seeing time in 3WR sets.
 
Barden was going to have to beat Hixon out anyway and I think he most likely would have. I still think the Gmen need to trade a WR for a LB.

Word I hear is Hixon injury may bring in a KR

 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.
So you're saying that Nicks and Manningham are proven, established receivers in this league? Now granted, Nicks has a ton of talent and the sky is the limit...but proven he is not. Manningham is far from proven.The point is that if someone is a believer in Barden being a big-time receiver, the talent in front of him is no better or worse than talent all across the league. De-valuing him because of Mario Manningham is a huge mistake, IF you think he's going to be a stud.
I'm saying that your statement that Nicks and Maningham are 'totally unproven' is incorrect.

You're already backpedaling about Nicks.

Barden has quite a ways to go to reach Nicks, and a decent amount to pass Maro.

Again, I like Barden as a prospect, but he is the one who is very close to 'totally unproven' at this point in his career.

 
I really don't have much of an opinion on Ramses Barden. I was interested to read the thread and get some insight.

But geez, after reading it, you'd think Barden had Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Andre Johnson to beat out.

Guys, it's STEVE SMITH, MARIO MANNINGHAM, and HAKEEM NICKS.

Only Smith has done anything, and I don't think anyone mistakes him for an unbelievable talent.

If Ramses Barden turns into a 6'6 stud, as some think he could be, don't discount him because of the guys in front of them, because two of them (Nicks and Manningham) are totally unproven themselves, and Smith only has one real season of success.
Those two have proven much more than Barden.

Not to say that Barden can't improve, but you're way off on the bolded part.
So you're saying that Nicks and Manningham are proven, established receivers in this league? Now granted, Nicks has a ton of talent and the sky is the limit...but proven he is not. Manningham is far from proven.The point is that if someone is a believer in Barden being a big-time receiver, the talent in front of him is no better or worse than talent all across the league. De-valuing him because of Mario Manningham is a huge mistake, IF you think he's going to be a stud.
Am I missing something here? I thought Barden was the unproven WR? How many receptions did Barden have last year? Nicks? Manningham?
 

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