Ran a 10k in June (3 Viewers)

[SteelCurtain]

Well good to know we're all ####### crazy

Going to try a new 5 mile route tomorrow to see how it works out then I need to come up with a good 10 mile route.

LOL! As soon as I read this I thought do it twice as well. As JB would say, "If we weren't all crazy, we would all go insane."

Did mile repeats today with 3:30 break in between. (question for marathoners -- tell me about your speed work. How many? How often? I've been doing one mile repeats and get up to doing maybe 6-7 of them with 3:30 break. I do them generally every other week.)

1 mile warmup - 9:28

1 mile - 6:51

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:56

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:54

3:30 break

1 mile - 7:10 (had a little uphill)

5 minute cool down.

It was hard but it was good to knock these off.

I always preferred 800's when preparing for a marathon. I did 800's followed by 400 rests. I'd build to ten (Yasso 800's). It was usually a really good predictor of what my marathon pace would be (i.e., if I could average 3:30 for the 10 800's; I'd shoot for a 3:30:00 marathon).

So, is it safe to say, that if I can do five 1-mile repeats (which is essentially the equivalent of 10 800's) at 7 minute miles, then my goal of 3:30 marathon is realistic? Or is there some advantage to the shorter burst and doing it 10 times as opposed to 5. I'm just trying to figure out if there is science behind your preferred or is it just your personal preference?

I've always assumed that if I could do a mile then that must be better than doing a half mile interval. But I could be completely wrong.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Pfitzinger argues that mile repeats are a little longer than optimal for VO2 max workouts, but they're obviously not bad since he has you doing a small set of them during your taper. I've always assumed this is one of those things that comes down mainly to personal preference.

 

[Ned]

Pfitzinger argues that mile repeats are a little longer than optimal for VO2 max workouts, but they're obviously not bad since he has you doing a small set of them during your taper. I've always assumed this is one of those things that comes down mainly to personal preference.

He also doesn't prescribe VO2max workouts until the last cycle before tapering. Right now should be all about endurance and LT building.

 

[tri-man 47]

Well good to know we're all ####### crazy

Going to try a new 5 mile route tomorrow to see how it works out then I need to come up with a good 10 mile route.

LOL! As soon as I read this I thought do it twice as well. As JB would say, "If we weren't all crazy, we would all go insane."

Did mile repeats today with 3:30 break in between. (question for marathoners -- tell me about your speed work. How many? How often? I've been doing one mile repeats and get up to doing maybe 6-7 of them with 3:30 break. I do them generally every other week.)

1 mile warmup - 9:28

1 mile - 6:51

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:56

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:54

3:30 break

1 mile - 7:10 (had a little uphill)

5 minute cool down.

It was hard but it was good to knock these off.

I always preferred 800's when preparing for a marathon. I did 800's followed by 400 rests. I'd build to ten (Yasso 800's). It was usually a really good predictor of what my marathon pace would be (i.e., if I could average 3:30 for the 10 800's; I'd shoot for a 3:30:00 marathon).

So, is it safe to say, that if I can do five 1-mile repeats (which is essentially the equivalent of 10 800's) at 7 minute miles, then my goal of 3:30 marathon is realistic? Or is there some advantage to the shorter burst and doing it 10 times as opposed to 5. I'm just trying to figure out if there is science behind your preferred or is it just your personal preference?

I've always assumed that if I could do a mile then that must be better than doing a half mile interval. But I could be completely wrong.

I like the slight endurance element of the miles (I actually like to do some 2-mile repeats just for kicks and giggles, too). The 800s have a simple benefit of the math, as liquors points out. I suspect a primary benefit is that the slightly faster pacing of 800's helps train the body (lungs and muscles) to handle that harder effort ...there's a bit more of a gap between the 800 pace and the marathon pace than the miles and marathon. But another approach (which I see from some top runners' workouts in Runners World) is using ladders of shorter distances to longer, then back down again. So it can all work well. I don't know that either 800s or miles is better. Your mile pacing probably is a rather good predictor, similar to the Yasso 800s concept.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I'm just trying to figure out if there is science behind your preferred or is it just your personal preference? I've always assumed that if I could do a mile then that must be better than doing a half mile interval. But I could be completely wrong.

It was always my personal preference, but I used to do a lot of mile repeats as well. 800's was my best way of determining goal pace. I achieved great confidence once I got up to 10. I likely used that confidence as much as the cardio benefit during race day. Either will likely get you fully prepared. You will hear lots of people give mixed results on using either. IF you like the mile repeats, do them.

 

[SteelCurtain]

I'm just trying to figure out if there is science behind your preferred or is it just your personal preference? I've always assumed that if I could do a mile then that must be better than doing a half mile interval. But I could be completely wrong.

It was always my personal preference, but I used to do a lot of mile repeats as well. 800's was my best way of determining goal pace. I achieved great confidence once I got up to 10. I likely used that confidence as much as the cardio benefit during race day. Either will likely get you fully prepared. You will hear lots of people give mixed results on using either. IF you like the mile repeats, do them.

Cool. Thanks. I'll give the 800's a shot also. Safe to say by the 10th one you are pretty much gassed (to the point where #11 wouldn't happen)?

 

[SteelCurtain]

Well good to know we're all ####### crazy

Going to try a new 5 mile route tomorrow to see how it works out then I need to come up with a good 10 mile route.

LOL! As soon as I read this I thought do it twice as well. As JB would say, "If we weren't all crazy, we would all go insane."

Did mile repeats today with 3:30 break in between. (question for marathoners -- tell me about your speed work. How many? How often? I've been doing one mile repeats and get up to doing maybe 6-7 of them with 3:30 break. I do them generally every other week.)

1 mile warmup - 9:28

1 mile - 6:51

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:56

3:30 break

1 mile - 6:54

3:30 break

1 mile - 7:10 (had a little uphill)

5 minute cool down.

It was hard but it was good to knock these off.

I always preferred 800's when preparing for a marathon. I did 800's followed by 400 rests. I'd build to ten (Yasso 800's). It was usually a really good predictor of what my marathon pace would be (i.e., if I could average 3:30 for the 10 800's; I'd shoot for a 3:30:00 marathon).

So, is it safe to say, that if I can do five 1-mile repeats (which is essentially the equivalent of 10 800's) at 7 minute miles, then my goal of 3:30 marathon is realistic? Or is there some advantage to the shorter burst and doing it 10 times as opposed to 5. I'm just trying to figure out if there is science behind your preferred or is it just your personal preference?

I've always assumed that if I could do a mile then that must be better than doing a half mile interval. But I could be completely wrong.

I like the slight endurance element of the miles (I actually like to do some 2-mile repeats just for kicks and giggles, too). The 800s have a simple benefit of the math, as liquors points out. I suspect a primary benefit is that the slightly faster pacing of 800's helps train the body (lungs and muscles) to handle that harder effort ...there's a bit more of a gap between the 800 pace and the marathon pace than the miles and marathon. But another approach (which I see from some top runners' workouts in Runners World) is using ladders of shorter distances to longer, then back down again. So it can all work well. I don't know that either 800s or miles is better. Your mile pacing probably is a rather good predictor, similar to the Yasso 800s concept.

Tri -- I really respect your analytical approach (plus I'm over 40 and there aren't many in here older than me!) and I believe we recently ran similar marathon times. (Mine were 3:36 and 3:39 in 2011)what type of pacing do you think is appropriate for a 2 miler? I'm thinking 7:15/mile? I'm shooting for 7 min/miles for my mile repeats.

The ladder being: 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400? If so, any idea of time (or HR on those)?

Since I only do speed once every couple weeks, I don't want to waste all kinds of energy on stuff that isn't really helping.

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

 

[tri-man 47]

Tri -- I really respect your analytical approach (plus I'm over 40 and there aren't many in here older than me!) and I believe we recently ran similar marathon times. (Mine were 3:36 and 3:39 in 2011)what type of pacing do you think is appropriate for a 2 miler? I'm thinking 7:15/mile? I'm shooting for 7 min/miles for my mile repeats.The ladder being: 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400? If so, any idea of time (or HR on those)? Since I only do speed once every couple weeks, I don't want to waste all kinds of energy on stuff that isn't really helping.

SC, yes we've had similar times (3:41 and 3:37 on my back-to-back). (and ...thanks.) Given your 7 minute pace on the mile repeats, a 7:15 is reasonable for 2 milers. In effect, that's about :50-55/mile faster than marathon pace. It's not a bad workout to add to the routine - it could be a good Saturday routine, so then you run a long Sunday run on tired legs.The ladder is a bit hard to predict. I would guesstimate something like 6:00/mile for the 400, 6:15/mile for the 800, 6:30/mile for the 1200, and 6:50 or 7:00 for the 1600. All in all, comfortably uncomfortable. But as you note, you don't do a lot of speed work, so it might be best to have maybe two different routines that feel right and alternate those. Maybe better to alternate hills and speed than adding too many speed variations, especially now that you're in the thick of it.It's great fun watching you guys gear up for the long races!

 

[Ned]

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

I think he's got quite a bit of speed work when you consider all of the LT runs in the first 2 cycles followed by the VO2max work in cycle 3. Then toss in the MP work... I won't totally shut out the idea, but man right now 8:00 is fn fast. Looks like some good weather is coming just in time for Sunday's 18 with 10MP, so we'll see where I'm at.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Has anyone tried, or know anyone who has tried a performance mouth guard? They are no longer $500 to $2,000. My son is complaining that his jaw hurts after Cross Country practices and I am wondering if this may help (and have a positive impact on performance. As a side note, I've handed down my first pair of compression sleeves. He is too proud, so far, to wear them to practice, but I am working on him. He is also talking about wanting to come trail racing this fall and winter to stay in shape for track in the spring. I think I'll be out some money as of his first time trial a week from Tuesday. I thought he'd hate (or at least dislike) practice and want to bail on the whole cross country thing, so I pre-bribed him with incentives to beat my best 5K, go sub 20 and run a race as varsity (top 7). I think beating my best (22:49 at the end of a sprint tri) is toast right away. Sub 20 is safe for a week as its a tough hilly course, but I'd bet will fall early in the season. Not so sure about varsity. 6 of the 7 boys that ran most varsity races last year are back and three went sub 16 in races last year. So fun, he is actually asking for advice and listening to what I have to say.

On another note, tapering sucks.

 

[beer 302]

66/63 today, it's been glorious this week. And for the record, I'm 47 SC/tri-man.

 

[BassNBrew]

I'll carry thoughts of Sara Walker and her family (and you and your wife, too) with me on my long weekend run.

Great idea, tri. I'm sure I'll need some extra motivation at 1 AM on Saturday when I'm running the mile-and-a-half-long hill at the end of my second leg.

That ain't a hill, that's a warm up.Good luck this weekend. Have fun with your group.

 

[tri-man 47]

66/63 today, it's been glorious this week. And for the record, I'm 47 SC/tri-man.

I was 47 once!2Young - You're getting young R all tricked out on race gear already? lol Personally, I'd prefer he work on developing good breathing habits rather than thinking he needs a mouth guard to help him do it. If he starts with the mouth guard now ...when would he ever break the habit? And good breathing can be learned through some focus - learning to open the mouth, relax the jaw, and open the throat rather than tensing up and breathing partially through the nose. You know I'm a fan of a strong exhale, and one of the benefits is that it sets up a good, strong, open throat inhale. Let him learn!

As to compression sleeves, here again, I wouldn't be too anxious to start him on that habit. I love me some compression socks, but for a young high schooler, I don't know that they need them yet ...especially as a newbie to the team. Maybe wait and see if other kids are using them at the meets. But don't try to solve a problem that doesn't necessarily exist. To your credit, you're not loaning him any of those Martian race shirts yet (are you?).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

I think he's got quite a bit of speed work when you consider all of the LT runs in the first 2 cycles followed by the VO2max work in cycle 3. Then toss in the MP work...

My wife is starting her training for Tucson and decided not to do a Pfitz program because "I don't want to just grind out a bunch of slow miles -- I need more speedwork." So now she's doing one of the Higdon advanced programs, which arguably have less speedwork than 18/55. Technically Higdon has more VO2 max stuff in there, but his tempo runs are super-easy compared we're doing. So are his MP runs. I blame it on her being female and therefore impervious to reason and logic.

________________________

It was a breath-seeing, head-steaming 41 degrees when I got started on my 22 miler this morning. That meant breaking out a long-sleeve shirt, and after 10 miles or so I even wish that I brought some glove liners along. I think it may have gotten back up to 50 by the time I was done. Not a whole lot to report on this one. This was the second of three 20+ mile runs, and I always find that it's hard to get motivated for that middle one, so this was mainly just an issue of grinding out the miles (9:54 avg).

 

[BassNBrew]

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

I think he's got quite a bit of speed work when you consider all of the LT runs in the first 2 cycles followed by the VO2max work in cycle 3. Then toss in the MP work...

My wife is starting her training for Tucson and decided not to do a Pfitz program because "I don't want to just grind out a bunch of slow miles -- I need more speedwork." So now she's doing one of the Higdon advanced programs, which arguably have less speedwork than 18/55. Technically Higdon has more VO2 max stuff in there, but his tempo runs are super-easy compared we're doing. So are his MP runs. I blame it on her being female and therefore impervious to reason and logic.

________________________

It was a breath-seeing, head-steaming 41 degrees when I got started on my 22 miler this morning. That meant breaking out a long-sleeve shirt, and after 10 miles or so I even wish that I brought some glove liners along. I think it may have gotten back up to 50 by the time I was done. Not a whole lot to report on this one. This was the second of three 20+ mile runs, and I always find that it's hard to get motivated for that middle one, so this was mainly just an issue of grinding out the miles (9:54 avg).

Excited for you after all the work you've put in.

 

[2Young2BBald]

66/63 today, it's been glorious this week. And for the record, I'm 47 SC/tri-man.

I was 47 once!2Young - You're getting young R all tricked out on race gear already? lol Personally, I'd prefer he work on developing good breathing habits rather than thinking he needs a mouth guard to help him do it. If he starts with the mouth guard now ...when would he ever break the habit? And good breathing can be learned through some focus - learning to open the mouth, relax the jaw, and open the throat rather than tensing up and breathing partially through the nose. You know I'm a fan of a strong exhale, and one of the benefits is that it sets up a good, strong, open throat inhale. Let him learn!

As to compression sleeves, here again, I wouldn't be too anxious to start him on that habit. I love me some compression socks, but for a young high schooler, I don't know that they need them yet ...especially as a newbie to the team. Maybe wait and see if other kids are using them at the meets. But don't try to solve a problem that doesn't necessarily exist. To your credit, you're not loaning him any of those Martian race shirts yet (are you?).

Fun Governor. Good advice, that is why I asked. A couple of the varsity boys are wearing compression gear. The local Hansons Running Shop (of the Brooks/Hanson Running Project) supports the schools with discounts, free clinics, etc. Many of their runners who work in the stores and run the clinics are strong proponents of compression wear, more for recovery than for racing. As for those martian shirts, he had raided my running wardrobe for tech gear, but those have surprisingly remained.

 

[sho nuff]

Got my 4 recovery miles in this morning...though...really struggled through it.

Just tired as I tossed and turned all night.

Well, maybe not struggled through it...just was not feeling much in this.

10:40/137

15 miles in the morning...hoping to get better sleep tonight.

 

[Ned]

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

I think he's got quite a bit of speed work when you consider all of the LT runs in the first 2 cycles followed by the VO2max work in cycle 3. Then toss in the MP work...

My wife is starting her training for Tucson and decided not to do a Pfitz program because "I don't want to just grind out a bunch of slow miles -- I need more speedwork." So now she's doing one of the Higdon advanced programs, which arguably have less speedwork than 18/55. Technically Higdon has more VO2 max stuff in there, but his tempo runs are super-easy compared we're doing. So are his MP runs. I blame it on her being female and therefore impervious to reason and logic.

________________________

It was a breath-seeing, head-steaming 41 degrees when I got started on my 22 miler this morning. That meant breaking out a long-sleeve shirt, and after 10 miles or so I even wish that I brought some glove liners along. I think it may have gotten back up to 50 by the time I was done. Not a whole lot to report on this one. This was the second of three 20+ mile runs, and I always find that it's hard to get motivated for that middle one, so this was mainly just an issue of grinding out the miles (9:54 avg).

Excited for you after all the work you've put in.

and super envious of those temps!

 

[sho nuff]

Ned -- I respect Pfitz and have found his book fascinating. I know he isn't big on pushing speed in training. I think the speed workouts really help me (maybe more mentally than anything else). In addition, I've read other articles, etc that speak of needing to do enough training at or faster than marathon pace. They essentially say "If you don't train enough at marathon or faster pace, what makes you think you'll nail it on race day." Tough for me to argue that one. Admittedly, I should probably go re-read Pfitz to get his take again. I'll say it again regarding Philly Marathon. Looking at your training (and you are doing way more miles than me), I think you should run mile 1 and 2 with me at about 8 min mile and see how your HR is doing. You can always back off if you think it isn't gonna work.

I think he's got quite a bit of speed work when you consider all of the LT runs in the first 2 cycles followed by the VO2max work in cycle 3. Then toss in the MP work...

My wife is starting her training for Tucson and decided not to do a Pfitz program because "I don't want to just grind out a bunch of slow miles -- I need more speedwork." So now she's doing one of the Higdon advanced programs, which arguably have less speedwork than 18/55. Technically Higdon has more VO2 max stuff in there, but his tempo runs are super-easy compared we're doing. So are his MP runs. I blame it on her being female and therefore impervious to reason and logic.

________________________

It was a breath-seeing, head-steaming 41 degrees when I got started on my 22 miler this morning. That meant breaking out a long-sleeve shirt, and after 10 miles or so I even wish that I brought some glove liners along. I think it may have gotten back up to 50 by the time I was done. Not a whole lot to report on this one. This was the second of three 20+ mile runs, and I always find that it's hard to get motivated for that middle one, so this was mainly just an issue of grinding out the miles (9:54 avg).

Excited for you after all the work you've put in.

and super envious of those temps!

The only thing I enjoyed of today's run was the 66 degrees it was when I started...though dewpoint around 63...but the storms that rolled in left a little breeze today which was nice.

Hoping it is like that in the morning or a little cooler for the 15.

 

[tri-man 47]

It was a breath-seeing, head-steaming 41 degrees when I got started on my 22 miler this morning. That meant breaking out a long-sleeve shirt, and after 10 miles or so I even wish that I brought some glove liners along. I think it may have gotten back up to 50 by the time I was done. Not a whole lot to report on this one. This was the second of three 20+ mile runs, and I always find that it's hard to get motivated for that middle one, so this was mainly just an issue of grinding out the miles (9:54 avg).

Sweet! I have a few XL tech shirts where the sleeves are long enough that I can pull them over the top of my hand ..just enough to ease the chill. Can't wait for a few of those runs!Love the 22 milers! At the slower pace, of course, that narrows the total time gap between the training run and the race event. --Again, good luck to the weekend racers as we all carry thoughts of Sara and her family this weekend.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Interesting. Madison, WI is moving its marathon from May to November. After this year's heat, I wonder if any other races in the upper-midwest will follow suit. The problem is that moving to October puts your squarely in competition with TCM and Chicago, and November offers up a serious possibility of snow.

 

[2Young2BBald]

I was just farting around with my Gamin prepping for this weekend and noticed there are sunrise and sunset options in the data fields. WTH would someone use these for? I suppose it could help determine when you may be off the roads while biking, but otherwise I am Also, just pack arm warmers from the first two of 10 legs (run and bike). It may be in the high 40s at gun time.

 

[BassNBrew]

For you mt bikers or anyone else who enjoys a laugh.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/204800/

 

[17seconds]

Haven't been posting much because I've been toiling through the last training cycle this year. Need to start fresh in 2013.

Anyway, my last race is saturday. America's Finest City half which will complete the SD Triple Crown. I'm just gonna go out strong and try to hold on to get somewhere near 1:40. If I fall apart and miss a PR (1:43:19), oh well. I think I've been a little conservative in all my previous races.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Haven't been posting much because I've been toiling through the last training cycle this year. Need to start fresh in 2013.Anyway, my last race is saturday. America's Finest City half which will complete the SD Triple Crown. I'm just gonna go out strong and try to hold on to get somewhere near 1:40. If I fall apart and miss a PR (1:43:19), oh well. I think I've been a little conservative in all my previous races.

Good luck. I always used to go out too conservatively in HMs too, and I was finishing practically every race by running the last few miles :30+ faster than my average pace, which is basically a sign that I was sandbagging the start. I've much better results by going out at the fastest pace I think I can hold and if I fade at the end, oh well it's not like it's the last HM I'll ever run. Assuming the endurance is there, I think you'll surprise yourself with your ability to handle a faster start.

 

[17seconds]

Haven't been posting much because I've been toiling through the last training cycle this year. Need to start fresh in 2013.Anyway, my last race is saturday. America's Finest City half which will complete the SD Triple Crown. I'm just gonna go out strong and try to hold on to get somewhere near 1:40. If I fall apart and miss a PR (1:43:19), oh well. I think I've been a little conservative in all my previous races.

Good luck. I always used to go out too conservatively in HMs too, and I was finishing practically every race by running the last few miles :30+ faster than my average pace, which is basically a sign that I was sandbagging the start. I've much better results by going out at the fastest pace I think I can hold and if I fade at the end, oh well it's not like it's the last HM I'll ever run. Assuming the endurance is there, I think you'll surprise yourself with your ability to handle a faster start.

Thanks. Runs haven't been so great lately but I did a pretty decent cycle. Last race was a full on 6/3. Took a week off, then slowly built up to 45mpw and I tapered pretty hard. Just two 4mi tempo runs this week. I'm sick of running. I've been in training mode for 10 months solid. Three HMs, a 5K, and a full. Need to go back to 15mpw for a while. Maybe do P90X during the holidays.The course starts 2mi mostly flat, 3mi big downhill, 6mi totally flat, 2mi uphill. Need to go out fast on that course. That last hill is gonna suck though.

 

[tri-man 47]

For you mt bikers or anyone else who enjoys a laugh.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/204800/

2Young - question asked and answered, you crazy gear freak.

17seconds - yeah, take it out firm. The challenge is keeping a good stride and rhythm in those final miles, which takes some mental concentration and toughness. HTFU, and get 'er done!!!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Haven't been posting much because I've been toiling through the last training cycle this year. Need to start fresh in 2013.

Anyway, my last race is saturday. America's Finest City half which will complete the SD Triple Crown. I'm just gonna go out strong and try to hold on to get somewhere near 1:40. If I fall apart and miss a PR (1:43:19), oh well. I think I've been a little conservative in all my previous races.

Good luck. I always used to go out too conservatively in HMs too, and I was finishing practically every race by running the last few miles :30+ faster than my average pace, which is basically a sign that I was sandbagging the start. I've much better results by going out at the fastest pace I think I can hold and if I fade at the end, oh well it's not like it's the last HM I'll ever run. Assuming the endurance is there, I think you'll surprise yourself with your ability to handle a faster start.

Thanks. Runs haven't been so great lately but I did a pretty decent cycle. Last race was a full on 6/3. Took a week off, then slowly built up to 45mpw and I tapered pretty hard. Just two 4mi tempo runs this week. I'm sick of running. I've been in training mode for 10 months solid. Three HMs, a 5K, and a full. Need to go back to 15mpw for a while. Maybe do P90X during the holidays.The course starts 2mi mostly flat, 3mi big downhill, 6mi totally flat, 2mi uphill. Need to go out fast on that course. That last hill is gonna suck though.

Honestly, that's really tough. I don't know what you're other fitness goals are, but I'd try not to drop all the back to 15 mpw. You can maintain the fitness you've got with 25-35 mpw, and that level of mileage would probably be easy for you given the grind that you've been on. Just my .02.

 

[beer 302]

Thanks. Runs haven't been so great lately but I did a pretty decent cycle. Last race was a full on 6/3. Took a week off, then slowly built up to 45mpw and I tapered pretty hard. Just two 4mi tempo runs this week. I'm sick of running. I've been in training mode for 10 months solid. Three HMs, a 5K, and a full. Need to go back to 15mpw for a while. Maybe do P90X during the holidays.The course starts 2mi mostly flat, 3mi big downhill, 6mi totally flat, 2mi uphill. Need to go out fast on that course. That last hill is gonna suck though.

I know it sounds simple but just run. It's your last of the year and 10 months of training, well if you don't know the pace by now then you benn doing it wrong GB Have fun and kill it

 

[SteelCurtain]

Grue update according to his FB

Posted approximately 6 p.m. EDT - "Legs 1-2 done (13.7) miles at 7:14/mile. Handoff to Kim Barman, and I'm done til midnight..."

Posted approximately 3 a.m. EDT - "Legs 13-14 done. 11.48 miles at 7:21/mile. Still running alone. :-\"

The guy is just a freakin machine. I think he runs again late morning, if I remember correctly.

---------------------

MY UPDATE -- long run today. Have little motivation to do it. Will start around 10ish.

 

[sho nuff]

Again, the cooler temps 66/60 this morning to start...definitely having the desired effect on my long run today.

Day whatever of Pfitz Week 4...15 miles

10:24 average per mile 146 average HR.

Just seemed my HR was responding well over this run and it really felt pretty easy. Could have gone a few more miles no problem.

Even the hills would only creep the HR up about 155ish...and it would come right back down to 140 or less on the downhills.

The last few hills really did not hurt as they have in the past either.

Really a good run out there for me finishing out a 42 mile week another weekly distance PR (as most weeks will be going forward).

 

[prosopis]

Grue is nuts

 

[beer 302]

Grue update according to his FBPosted approximately 6 p.m. EDT - "Legs 1-2 done (13.7) miles at 7:14/mile. Handoff to Kim Barman, and I'm done til midnight..."Posted approximately 3 a.m. EDT - "Legs 13-14 done. 11.48 miles at 7:21/mile. Still running alone. :-\"The guy is just a freakin machine. I think he runs again late morning, if I remember correctly.---------------------MY UPDATE -- long run today. Have little motivation to do it. Will start around 10ish.

Grue is stupid, the good stupid.

Really a good run out there for me finishing out a 42 mile week another weekly distance PR (as most weeks will be going forward).

Awesome job man! Crazy distances you guys are putting up, very inspiring to us slackers I got in 11 today, 10 on a new route that I was hoping to be a new staple in my routine coming up. Not sure if it's something I want to do twice a week, fair amount of hills that I wasn't expecting. Good run though, averaged 10:37, don't think the HR got up much past 155, averaged 146 for the run. Temps here have been noticeably cooler as well making it a lot easier to rack some milage, 69/63 this morning

 

[sho nuff]

Grue is nuts

 

[koby925]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

So not a "new" PB but only 10 seconds off and it's my second best 5k since my comeback. My splits were fairly even: First mile 5:38, second mile 5:48 (11:26) and finished the last 1.1 in 6:06 (about 5:33 pace). The first mile kinda scared me because 5:38 felt more like 5:25 or so to me and the calf wasn't completely loose. So I think mile 2 was a mental slow down more than anything and I finished well. All tolled I am happy with this race because my legs have felt tired and the speedwork has been less than stellar. I actually felt like I ran this race more on strength and endurance. This spring/early summer I felt like my speed was getting me through races and making up for my lack of base. Which tells me that although my legs feel tired, the increase in mileage is helping in the long run.

 

[koby925]

Grue update according to his FBPosted approximately 6 p.m. EDT - "Legs 1-2 done (13.7) miles at 7:14/mile. Handoff to Kim Barman, and I'm done til midnight..."Posted approximately 3 a.m. EDT - "Legs 13-14 done. 11.48 miles at 7:21/mile. Still running alone. :-\"

Wow. Those are great fresh races for most people and he's doing multiples per day.

 

[tri-man 47]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

Dude! That is flying!!! And I love the pie.

--

For me, it was Oh, why not. All the other distance training going on here, a great morning with a cool breeze, a bit of a break in my academic schedule, and a desire to make today a special run - I did 20 miles. 8:22/mi, 145 HR. I actually negative split the run - 8:30 (140 HR), 8:14 (150 HR). I swear, the lighter weight, lower-heeled shoes help so much. I was able to keep a light foot strike even late in the run, though I could feel my legs tiring.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Nice day (for August) for a run.

This was my long run and it was just brutal. Legs were dead. I didn't want to be there.

Regardless, just slogged through it. 16 miles, 9:25 pace, average HR of 142.

Glad its over.

 

[SteelCurtain]

35,000+ posts. That's alot of running, biking, and swimming.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

Wow, that's an awesome time. Nice job.Steel Curtain -- Good run. Way to grind out the miles on a day when you're not really into it.

 

[BassNBrew]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

So not a "new" PB but only 10 seconds off and it's my second best 5k since my comeback. My splits were fairly even: First mile 5:38, second mile 5:48 (11:26) and finished the last 1.1 in 6:06 (about 5:33 pace). The first mile kinda scared me because 5:38 felt more like 5:25 or so to me and the calf wasn't completely loose. So I think mile 2 was a mental slow down more than anything and I finished well. All tolled I am happy with this race because my legs have felt tired and the speedwork has been less than stellar. I actually felt like I ran this race more on strength and endurance. This spring/early summer I felt like my speed was getting me through races and making up for my lack of base. Which tells me that although my legs feel tired, the increase in mileage is helping in the long run.

Congrats.

P.S. I hate you!

To put this into perspective, koby is a lot closer to winning a gold in the olympics than I am to catching up with him.

 

[beer 302]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

So not a "new" PB but only 10 seconds off and it's my second best 5k since my comeback. My splits were fairly even: First mile 5:38, second mile 5:48 (11:26) and finished the last 1.1 in 6:06 (about 5:33 pace). The first mile kinda scared me because 5:38 felt more like 5:25 or so to me and the calf wasn't completely loose. So I think mile 2 was a mental slow down more than anything and I finished well. All tolled I am happy with this race because my legs have felt tired and the speedwork has been less than stellar. I actually felt like I ran this race more on strength and endurance. This spring/early summer I felt like my speed was getting me through races and making up for my lack of base. Which tells me that although my legs feel tired, the increase in mileage is helping in the long run.

Nice job, I'd say you're back

 

[prosopis]

Congrats to koby and grue

Some killer work outs being done in here by all.

My Higdon training called for a 5k race today but I had none to enter

About 2:30 I decided to have my own 5k race. It was 92 degrees with 39% humidity at "race" time. I was aiming for a 9:00 pace. I took off really fast for me and said to myself I am sanding this. Did good for about 1.25 miles and then I started hurting. I had to stop a few times to catch my breath and I turned the garmin off when I stopped. The last 1.5 miles was a bastardized interval work out. I did the full 3.1 at 8:32 pace. That is not a true pace as I was stopping and turning off the garmin at times. On the other hand that is a new PB for me.

I will take it as a victory and I won the race. I think I sweated a few gallons and I jumped right into a cold shower when I got home.

 

[tri-man 47]

My Higdon training called for a 5k race today but I had none to enter About 2:30 I decided to have my own 5k race. It was 92 degrees with 39% humidity at "race" time. I was aiming for a 9:00 pace. I took off really fast for me and said to myself I am sanding this. Did good for about 1.25 miles and then I started hurting. I had to stop a few times to catch my breath and I turned the garmin off when I stopped. The last 1.5 miles was a bastardized interval work out. I did the full 3.1 at 8:32 pace. That is not a true pace as I was stopping and turning off the garmin at times. On the other hand that is a new PB for me. I will take it as a victory and I won the race. I think I sweated a few gallons and I jumped right into a cold shower when I got home.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Hey, while you couldn't hold the pace, the fact that you have that kind of pacing in you, now, is an encouraging sign. Keep up your true interval training (and some hill work?), and your pace will continue to improve. I smell a 27 minute 5K in your near future. What's your "race" race PB?

 

[prosopis]

My Higdon training called for a 5k race today but I had none to enter About 2:30 I decided to have my own 5k race. It was 92 degrees with 39% humidity at "race" time. I was aiming for a 9:00 pace. I took off really fast for me and said to myself I am sanding this. Did good for about 1.25 miles and then I started hurting. I had to stop a few times to catch my breath and I turned the garmin off when I stopped. The last 1.5 miles was a bastardized interval work out. I did the full 3.1 at 8:32 pace. That is not a true pace as I was stopping and turning off the garmin at times. On the other hand that is a new PB for me. I will take it as a victory and I won the race. I think I sweated a few gallons and I jumped right into a cold shower when I got home.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Hey, while you couldn't hold the pace, the fact that you have that kind of pacing in you, now, is an encouraging sign. Keep up your true interval training (and some hill work?), and your pace will continue to improve. I smell a 27 minute 5K in your near future. What's your "race" race PB?

9:26 in 100 degrees. I think that would have been better if I did not have to work so hard to get around people. I will start closer to start line next time. I just dont want to be the guy who gets in some ones way.

 

[Ned]

17s - You are a talented runner. As long as mother nature cooperates, I have no doubt you can run a 1:40. I echo Ivan's comments too. Don't totally bag the winter. Just keep it light and easy. a 30mpw sorta schedule would probably do the same recharging.

grue -

sho - Congrats on another solid week. Keep it up!

beer30 - How'd you feel after the week off? From the looks of it, you picked up right where you left off.

koby - Holy crap dude. 17x is a hell of a way to burst back onto the scene. Congrats! I know what that feeling is like to fall asleep on the 2nd mile of a 5K. That's where a lot of the races can be won/lost, IMO.

tri - A random 20? That's just a testament to how incredibly fit you are right now. You're the man.

steel - What you do with the days that you're just not quite into it are the days that make or break your cycle. Good job sticking it out. 9:25/142 is still solid work considering.

prosopis - Totally agree with tri. The speed signs are showing. I'm also guessing it would've been a tad easier in cooler conditions.

 

[Ned]

Pfitz 18/70 week 5

Tue (9mi w/ 5LT) - Already posted it, but was a pretty strong run. 5LT miles were 7:30/173

Wed (14mi MLR) - Wednesday's MLRs are killer. 70/70 for another foggy Wed. Legs were surprisingly fresh. 9:34/141

Thu (5mi recovery) - Finally a relaxing recovery run. 76/62 sure had a factor into that. 10:16/132

Fri (12mi MLR) - Another cooler lower humidity (68/63) run had the legs feeling fresh again. 9:19:140

Sat (5mi recovery) - 72/62 and still feeling good. How much of this is my body adjusting to the longer mileage vs. the cooler temps? 10:21/131

Sun (18mi w/ 10MP) - WTH just happened? Seriously, this can't be real. 59/57 at 5:30 AM. :drool: First 8 flew by at 9:15/138. The first 3 MP miles were uncomfortable and had me worried I was going too fast. That quickly changed. I was totally comfortable and rollin' with ease. It felt just like any other LR. Ended up being the fasted 18mi of my life. I have zero doubt in my mind I would've broken 4:00 for 26.2 today if I kept going. I think I was more tired at the end of last week's 18mi LR than I am right now. MP miles = 8:15/151, 8:17/156, 8:22/158, 8:17/161, 8:12/161, 8:05/160, 8:09/161, 8:02/163, 8:20/163, 8:13/163 Avg = 8:13/160 (159.7 for beer30 ) The total time was 1:22:12. That's 1 second off of my 10mi PR I set in January.

Total for the week = 63mi. Today's run would've been awesome on any day, but to do that on the tail end of a 63 mile week has me freaking out.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Pfitz 18/70 week 5

Tue (9mi w/ 5LT) - Already posted it, but was a pretty strong run. 5LT miles were 7:30/173

Wed (14mi MLR) - Wednesday's MLRs are killer. 70/70 for another foggy Wed. Legs were surprisingly fresh. 9:34/141

Thu (5mi recovery) - Finally a relaxing recovery run. 76/62 sure had a factor into that. 10:16/132

Fri (12mi MLR) - Another cooler lower humidity (68/63) run had the legs feeling fresh again. 9:19:140

Sat (5mi recovery) - 72/62 and still feeling good. How much of this is my body adjusting to the longer mileage vs. the cooler temps? 10:21/131

Sun (18mi w/ 10MP) - WTH just happened? Seriously, this can't be real. 59/57 at 5:30 AM. :drool: First 8 flew by at 9:15/138. The first 3 MP miles were uncomfortable and had me worried I was going too fast. That quickly changed. I was totally comfortable and rollin' with ease. It felt just like any other LR. Ended up being the fasted 18mi of my life. I have zero doubt in my mind I would've broken 4:00 for 26.2 today if I kept going. I think I was more tired at the end of last week's 18mi LR than I am right now. MP miles = 8:15/151, 8:17/156, 8:22/158, 8:17/161, 8:12/161, 8:05/160, 8:09/161, 8:02/163, 8:20/163, 8:13/163 Avg = 8:13/160 (159.7 for beer30 ) The total time was 1:22:12. That's 1 second off of my 10mi PR I set in January.

Total for the week = 63mi. Today's run would've been awesome on any day, but to do that on the tail end of a 63 mile week has me freaking out.

Ah hem. :Cough: 8 minute miles for 26.2 :Cough:

 

[SteelCurtain]

This morning's Ivyland (PA) 5k - about 72 and low humidity, couldn't ask for much more in August

I finished in 17:32. 8th overall and 1st in my age group (35-39). I won a peach pie

Dude! That is flying!!! And I love the pie.

--

For me, it was Oh, why not. All the other distance training going on here, a great morning with a cool breeze, a bit of a break in my academic schedule, and a desire to make today a special run - I did 20 miles. 8:22/mi, 145 HR. I actually negative split the run - 8:30 (140 HR), 8:14 (150 HR). I swear, the lighter weight, lower-heeled shoes help so much. I was able to keep a light foot strike even late in the run, though I could feel my legs tiring.

Koby

- Wow. That's fast. Nice run!

TriMan - Just a random 20 mile run? Geesh. That's Grue-like behavior.

 

[sho nuff]

Pfitz 18/70 week 5

Tue (9mi w/ 5LT) - Already posted it, but was a pretty strong run. 5LT miles were 7:30/173

Wed (14mi MLR) - Wednesday's MLRs are killer. 70/70 for another foggy Wed. Legs were surprisingly fresh. 9:34/141

Thu (5mi recovery) - Finally a relaxing recovery run. 76/62 sure had a factor into that. 10:16/132

Fri (12mi MLR) - Another cooler lower humidity (68/63) run had the legs feeling fresh again. 9:19:140

Sat (5mi recovery) - 72/62 and still feeling good. How much of this is my body adjusting to the longer mileage vs. the cooler temps? 10:21/131

Sun (18mi w/ 10MP) - WTH just happened? Seriously, this can't be real. 59/57 at 5:30 AM. :drool: First 8 flew by at 9:15/138. The first 3 MP miles were uncomfortable and had me worried I was going too fast. That quickly changed. I was totally comfortable and rollin' with ease. It felt just like any other LR. Ended up being the fasted 18mi of my life. I have zero doubt in my mind I would've broken 4:00 for 26.2 today if I kept going. I think I was more tired at the end of last week's 18mi LR than I am right now. MP miles = 8:15/151, 8:17/156, 8:22/158, 8:17/161, 8:12/161, 8:05/160, 8:09/161, 8:02/163, 8:20/163, 8:13/163 Avg = 8:13/160 (159.7 for beer30 ) The total time was 1:22:12. That's 1 second off of my 10mi PR I set in January.

Total for the week = 63mi. Today's run would've been awesome on any day, but to do that on the tail end of a 63 mile week has me freaking out.

Hell of a week man.You are just destroying it right now.