Ran a 10k in June (1 Viewer)

[gruecd]

Had to sneak in today's 5-mile recovery run over lunch, so I ran on the treadmill at the Y. I have no idea how people do double-digit runs on those things. :X

 

[Ned]

Had to sneak in today's 5-mile recovery run over lunch, so I ran on the treadmill at the Y. I have no idea how people do double-digit runs on those things. :X

I'll run in 8" of snow before stepping foot on a TM. Screw that.I'm starting to get some confidence goin'. Came back from a very cold (for this DE runner) 8mi MLR and felt super easy @ 9:21/146. Miles just melted away like the good ol' days. HR needs to keep coming down, but that'll come with time. I'm not putting in a ton of weekly mileage yet, but things are certainly going a lot easier these days. 8mi MLRs are clicking away like they're 3 miles. I love that feeling.

 

[Juxtatarot]

34 treadmill miles this week, 11 more tonight!

 

[gruecd]

34 treadmill miles this week, 11 more tonight!

Only thing I'm gonna say there is to make sure you get some road miles in, too. Can't train on a treadmill all winter and then expect your legs to hold up to 3 hours of pounding on the roads in Boston...

 

[Juxtatarot]

34 treadmill miles this week, 11 more tonight!

Only thing I'm gonna say there is to make sure you get some road miles in, too. Can't train on a treadmill all winter and then expect your legs to hold up to 3 hours of pounding on the roads in Boston...

Yes, I know. Prefer outside, of course, but there has single digit nights this week and snow today. I'll certainly run outside this weekend.

 

[prosopis]

Got back outside for another good 11-miler (second this week) yesterday afternoon. Temp was around 10°F when I started and not much wind, so it felt pretty decent. Worked my way down from 8:21 the first mile to 8-flat for miles 6-7, then picked it up, going 7:52, 7:36, 7:21, and 7:17 the last four.I'm busy tomorrow, so I moved my long run to Sunday afternoon. Supposed to do 15 with 8 MP (~7:15), and I'll likely be tired and hungover, so it should be a good test. I've been finishing my MLRs down around that pace anyway, so I like where I'm sitting with 11+ weeks to go before the race. By moving my long run to Sunday, I'll be running 15, 12, and 11 on consecutive days, which figures to be good training for my 50-miler in May and a good test for my Achilles.

Awesome.No way would I run in that cold.

 

[prosopis]

so i made an effort this year to just build mileage and not give a damn about speed. i am running more frequently and longer than ever before. looks like theres a lot i can learn from you guys.

Both really good and true statements.

 

[tri-man 47]

What was your breakthrough in swimming? Just lots of videos? Did you find an instructor?

I'm sure you'll find the gear as you hunt around. My breakthrough in swimming? I'll let you know after it happens. JK. As I was learning, I would practice some laps; read some stuff; watch some videos; practice more; watch other swimmers; do some drills; keep practicing; rinse ..repeat. As 2Young mentioned, you can ask some questions at the pool, or just start by watching others. Don't be shy about asking questions here. A few of the guys are great swimmers and can guide you well. I know only enough to be dangerous. A few comments:- a long, slow stroke is just fine ...better than a rushed, bad stroke. At some point (not yet, though), you can even count the strokes it takes to do a length.

- you're trying to be a sleek, long cigarette boat, not a clunky, bulky tugboat. As your arm enters the water and extends out, it should be touching, or almost touching, your ear.

- as your lead hand enters the water, it does so out in front of your head (not way off on the side). It enters before you've reached a full extension and then your hand glides forward before beginning the pull. Your hand enters at a bit of an angle ..quietly ..not a big splash.

- a key part of your pull is the second/bottom half of it. Your hand might make a mini-S shape as it pulls through. Don't quit on it early: The last push as your hand passes your waste is an important part of the stroke. You'll see swimmer practicing with paddles on their hands to ensure they are pulling through square.

- don't just turn your head: Feel your body rotate side to side. As you rotate, feel as though you're pushing your armpit down into the water. It's a great feeling, when you turn and breath, to have your mouth just above the water line and get a quick sideways view.

- you don't need much of a kick at all. You'll find your own rhythm with it, but it can be just a light flutter ...you don't have to be splashing the surface with your kick! Save those legs for the bike and run.

- one drill I like for the last lap or two of a workout: As my hand finishes a stroke and starts to move back forward, I'll try to literally drag my fingertips along the water, which keeps my arm low. I do this at a real slow, easy pace. It's a good way to concentrate on control.

Now you get the idea of swimming a length or two, stopping to think about some aspect of your stroke, then swim some more. So much to think about! When it starts to click, it's a super feeling. My little heaven is doing an early morning across-the-lake swim at our summer cottage ..sun coming up, no boats out, seeing the ripples from my movement cutting across the lake's surface.

--

annyong - welcome back! It's hard to find time with young kids, but you deserve some breaks, too. You're out in Joliet, right?

--

17 miles for me today on a day off (8:54/mile, 145 HR). My wife was heading to the far suburbs, and I needed to stop at an IRS office for some forms for work. Got the forms, handed them to my wife, and ran home. High 20's temp and an inch of light snow from overnight. I could have used my Yak Trax, but got by without. [Juxt, I started from that office tower at Butterfield Rd. and I-355 ...did some weaving through traffic, headed up to the Prairie Path in Lombard, and cruised home with the wind at my back.]

 

[2Young2BBald]

I'm sure you'll find the gear as you hunt around. My breakthrough in swimming? I'll let you know after it happens. JK. As I was learning, I would practice some laps; read some stuff; watch some videos; practice more; watch other swimmers; do some drills; keep practicing; rinse ..repeat. As 2Young mentioned, you can ask some questions at the pool, or just start by watching others. Don't be shy about asking questions here. A few of the guys are great swimmers and can guide you well. I know only enough to be dangerous. A few comments:- a long, slow stroke is just fine ...better than a rushed, bad stroke. At some point (not yet, though), you can even count the strokes it takes to do a length.- you're trying to be a sleek, long cigarette boat, not a clunky, bulky tugboat. As your arm enters the water and extends out, it should be touching, or almost touching, your ear. - as your lead hand enters the water, it does so out in front of your head (not way off on the side). It enters before you've reached a full extension and then your hand glides forward before beginning the pull. Your hand enters at a bit of an angle ..quietly ..not a big splash.- a key part of your pull is the second/bottom half of it. Your hand might make a mini-S shape as it pulls through. Don't quit on it early: The last push as your hand passes your waste is an important part of the stroke. You'll see swimmer practicing with paddles on their hands to ensure they are pulling through square.- don't just turn your head: Feel your body rotate side to side. As you rotate, feel as though you're pushing your armpit down into the water. It's a great feeling, when you turn and breath, to have your mouth just above the water line and get a quick sideways view. - you don't need much of a kick at all. You'll find your own rhythm with it, but it can be just a light flutter ...you don't have to be splashing the surface with your kick! Save those legs for the bike and run.- one drill I like for the last lap or two of a workout: As my hand finishes a stroke and starts to move back forward, I'll try to literally drag my fingertips along the water, which keeps my arm low. I do this at a real slow, easy pace. It's a good way to concentrate on control.Now you get the idea of swimming a length or two, stopping to think about some aspect of your stroke, then swim some more. So much to think about! When it starts to click, it's a super feeling. My little heaven is doing an early morning across-the-lake swim at our summer cottage ..sun coming up, no boats out, seeing the ripples from my movement cutting across the lake's surface.

and yeah, its time for you to come back to triathlon. How far is the cottage from Cadillac? Very good chance I'll do the Oly there on 7/27 and Mark is planning on it too. Spin, I few more things for swimming. I remember Wraith busting through by using the advice I gave him to slow down to go faster. Try and swim almost as slow as you can go. This will allow you to practice all the great stuff Tri-Man provided and give you confidence that you can work in a slow, smooth stroke without sinking. Another thing I continually focus on in the pool is to let the lane line on the bottom help me slot my arms. Aim your arms to stay on the outside of the thick lane line. This will keep you from crossing your arms over center which slows your stroke and can screw up the shoulders.

 

[mr. furley]

6.25 this morning in -6 (wind chill) only thing that sucked is these motherloving yaxtrax pinching my big toes. and when running on bare concrete they are "slippery". also made the mistake of not plotting a route so i wound up running a big square. for whatever reason that bores me. i need more variability. runningwarehouse.com a good place to pick up shoes?

 

[SFBayDuck]

so i made an effort this year to just build mileage and not give a damn about speed.

That's the way to start!

34 treadmill miles this week, 11 more tonight!

That's insane, but good for you for being able to knock out the miles on that thing. I've been dreadmill free for over four years now! Of course the 2 times I ran on a treadmill in the winter 2008-09 were when I was visiting the east coast, with ice and below freezing temps, so I get why you guys have to do it.Coming down with a bit of a head cold and not feeling great today, but it's long run day so getting some coffee in, loading some podcasts onto the ipod, and then out the door I go.

 

[Sand]

I just checked, it is a pool swim. Going to head to ****'s to check out some goggles,tri shorts after I get off work today.

...not sure you'll find much tri-gear at ****'s. You might have better luck getting gear on-line.

##### actually has a pretty decent selection of goggles.

 

[sho nuff]

Nice week before gearing up with my homemade training plan for the Country Music Half (a mix of the Ryan Hall plan I used last year to PR in the Tom King...with some pfitz ideas mixed in as well...plus a few weeks with dedicated hill workouts).M - 6 miles with 3 tempo miles. No real pacing at this point as just running comfortably for the GA miles and keeping my HR low and revving up a bit for the tempo. My paces are definitely not where I want them yet...but they are coming along.T - 4 recovery miles.W - 5 GA miles.F - 6 GA milesS - 9 GA milesDid not feel like 30 miles this week...which I guess is good coming off of how unmotivated I had been recently.

 

[Juxtatarot]

runningwarehouse.com a good place to pick up shoes?

I've bought several pairs there without any problems. Free two day shipping and no sales tax are an added bonus.

 

[SFBayDuck]

19 miles with 1750' of climbing, good time on the trails! Nothing but coffee with a little coconut milk before, drank about 55 oz of GU Brew and had one gel and one piece of ginger candy during the run. Energy felt great, seems the fat burning system is working pretty well on these runs.Now off to coach my 4th grade daughter's hoop team this afternoon!

 

[tri-man 47]

Just wanted to say that running in 13 degree weather makes me cold. Especially on my ankles that have no protection since I wear five fingers without socks.Thats all

Could you cut the toes off of a pair of socks, or make some baseball-like stirrups? While I like the idea of minimalist shoes, I don't know how I'd handle that in these Chicago winters.Added a 10 miler this morning to follow up yesterday's long run.

 

[Sand]

Just wanted to say that running in 13 degree weather makes me cold. Especially on my ankles that have no protection since I wear five fingers without socks.Thats all

Could you cut the toes off of a pair of socks, or make some baseball-like stirrups? While I like the idea of minimalist shoes, I don't know how I'd handle that in these Chicago winters.Added a 10 miler this morning to follow up yesterday's long run.

How about some Injinjis?

 

[beer 302]

Training Week 7

Mon - 3 miles, 10:19 pace. Call it a GA run.

Tue - 5 mile 4 X 1/2 mile repeats. First two were good, last two were pushing me but was a good run.

Wed - 4 mile recovery run, 10:16 pace.

Thu - 7.5 mile w/6 mile tempo run. 8:43 pace for first 3 miles, 8:58 on the comeback. Felt good to stride out but that was about the limit.

Fri - 4 mile GA run, 10:28 pace.

Sat - 10 miles, 9:51 pace. Was hoping to run the HM course today but the weather didn't cooperate, ice storm last night didn't thaw until this afternoon so went out local with the intent to get in 13. 5 miles in got tired of fighting the ice and turned around.

Sun - SDO

34 for the week

 

[tri-man 47]

How about some Injinjis?

You complete me.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Training report - Week 7

Mon 5 miles recovery. This was supposed to be my day off but since I missed a recovery run last week from being sick I made it up here. Treadmill. I don't remember the time.

Tues 10 miles with 5 LT. This was on a treadmill too. 1% incline. 2 1/2 up and 2 1/2 down. Middle miles: 6:40, 6:36, 6:31, 6:27, 6:19. Heart rate got as high as 167. Very pleased with this run. I felt like I had some gas in the tank after the LT portion which was differete from my earlier speed work which was a struggle to get through.

Wed 14 miles. Treadmill again. I've been meaning to run some of the "hill" settings on the treadmill to prepare for Boston's hills. I did that for the first time this run. Ran slower due to that and being tired from Tuesday's run. Probably averaged 8:15.

Thurs 5 miles recovery. 8:45ish average. Treadmill.

Fri 11 miles. Treadmill. 7:45ish average.

Sat 7 miles with 10 x 100 strides. Outside. 7:23 average(fast because of the strides).

Sun 21 miles. Outside. 7:31 average pace, 140 average HR. This run felt great. I ran the second half faster than the first. I had planned to run a little under 8 minute miles but I felt strong and my heart rate was OK so I ran what was feeling natural and didn't worry about being too fast. I finished strong too with the last 3 miles under 7:20 pace. I don't ever remember a 20+ training run being as easy as this one. I certainly could have kept going. Of course it helps that it was 30 degrees but I can really sense the benefits of these miles I've been running!

Overall miles for the week: 73. This may end up being the highest weekly mileage I'll ever run.

 

[beer 302]

Training report - Week 7

Mon 5 miles recovery. This was supposed to be my day off but since I missed a recovery run last week from being sick I made it up here. Treadmill. I don't remember the time.

Tues 10 miles with 5 LT. This was on a treadmill too. 1% incline. 2 1/2 up and 2 1/2 down. Middle miles: 6:40, 6:36, 6:31, 6:27, 6:19. Heart rate got as high as 167. Very pleased with this run. I felt like I had some gas in the tank after the LT portion which was differete from my earlier speed work which was a struggle to get through.

Wed 14 miles. Treadmill again. I've been meaning to run some of the "hill" settings on the treadmill to prepare for Boston's hills. I did that for the first time this run. Ran slower due to that and being tired from Tuesday's run. Probably averaged 8:15.

Thurs 5 miles recovery. 8:45ish average. Treadmill.

Fri 11 miles. Treadmill. 7:45ish average.

Sat 7 miles with 10 x 100 strides. Outside. 7:23 average(fast because of the strides).

Sun 21 miles. Outside. 7:31 average pace, 140 average HR. This run felt great. I ran the second half faster than the first. I had planned to run a little under 8 minute miles but I felt strong and my heart rate was OK so I ran what was feeling natural and didn't worry about being too fast. I finished strong too with the last 3 miles under 7:20 pace. I don't ever remember a 20+ training run being as easy as this one. I certainly could have kept going. Of course it helps that it was 30 degrees but I can really sense the benefits of these miles I've been running!

Overall miles for the week: 73. This may end up being the highest weekly mileage I'll ever run.

Holy #### man, nice week

 

[Ned]

Nice work, jux. You're going to love what 18/70 does for you.

I had the opposite experience today. Ran a windy/hilly 16 and felt crummy. Struggled through at 9:25/154. HR is total crap. I'm wondering how much your HR elevates due to the cold. I had the same elevated HR during Jan/Feb last year. Then I found this.

 

[sho nuff]

Nice work, jux. You're going to love what 18/70 does for you. I had the opposite experience today. Ran a windy/hilly 16 and felt crummy. Struggled through at 9:25/154. HR is total crap. I'm wondering how much your HR elevates due to the cold. I had the same elevated HR during Jan/Feb last year. Then I found this.

Hell yeah to Juxt...freaking beastly.Great stuff...remember reading something about that last year.I do notice the difference between my indoor runs and outdoor (or the difference between a run a few weeks ago when it was about 60 and then when its low 30s or below at times recently).

 

[SFBayDuck]

About a four mile/one hour hike to shake out the legs today after yesterday's 19 miler, brings me to just shy of 46 miles on my feet this week. Looking at my log the miles and the nine hours and twenty minutes logged this week are both my highest non-race week totals ever. Best part is that my Achilles are both feeling pretty good! Actually, the best part is that I should beat both these mileage and time totals several times over the next 2 months!

 

[FUBAR]

Winter here is nuts. Warm for awhile, freezing Friday, with freezing rain and the roads were iced over yesterday morning. it will be in the sixties mid week.So i postponed my lsd to this morning. The extra day of test gripper make it feel good. Unfortunately, my heart rate monitor broke so i may need a new watch as i would like to train more using HR. Still, a steady eight minute peace for the first twelve, 7:30 for the last two.

 

[beer 302]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

 

[FUBAR]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

Well, you can't fix "almost old". The other two you can.

 

[Ned]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

Faster in the 40yd dash?

 

[2Young2BBald]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

Train with people faster than you once in a while. Try and keep up while carrying on some conversation. Speedwork at a track doing pattern intervals. I like quarter mile repeats, run 200M, walk 200M. Add hilly trail running to the mix. This will make flat pavement seem easier.Cross train to add aerobic capacity, while taking a day off of pounding the pavement. Swimming and biking has made me a better runner IMO.Use Garmin functionality. Queue up the virtual partner to run against yourself to build speed over a similar course. Or, use the pace alarm to push yourself.

 

[gruecd]

Training report - Week 1 Pfitz 12/70

M - 8 miles GA. Treadmill. Did a few quarter-mile repeats at 6:27 pace in lieu of strides. 8:09/mile.

T - 11 miles. Outside and COLD (wind chill -17°F). Did yoga in the morning, so legs were nice and loose. 7:47/mile.

W - 5 miles recovery. Treadmill. 8:34/mile.

T - 11 miles. Outside. Overall 7:55/mile. Last 3 @ 7:36, 7:21, and 7:16.

F - 5 miles recovery. Treadmill. 8:34/mile.

S - Rest

S - 15 miles. Outside. Was supposed to have 8 at MP, but I only managed 5 MP (avg 7:10) before the snow ruined the footing. Overall avg 7:53/mile.

Total for the week was 55 miles, my highest weekly mileage since November. Achille is damn close to 100%.

Another great week for Jux. Dude is giving me a little push. I like it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I took advantage of yesterday's great weather (30 and little wind) to get 10 miles in around campus. Glad I did. We got ice last night and are supposed to get snow this afternoon, so the sidewalks are back to un-runnable for the time being.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Solid first week, Grue! Too bad about the snow yesterday but nice to hear the Achilles is holding up.

 

[gruecd]

Solid first week, Grue! Too bad about the snow yesterday but nice to hear the Achilles is holding up.

Thanks. I was supposed to do the 15 on Saturday, but I flip-flopped 'cuz I was busy. And I've got 12 today and 11 tomorrow, so it's three days at 15-12-11. Fun, fun....

 

[beer 302]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

Faster in the 40yd dash?

That's worth the price of admission there.[AlBundy]I ran a 4.9 forty in HS, I could take him[/AlBundy]

 

[koby925]

Nice work Jux. You look primed to race fast. I agree that you are certainly throwing the gauntlet out there and inspiring others. Keep up the good work

 

[Ned]

So if a fat slow and almost old guy wanted to get faster, what would you recommend? Shtick welcome

Faster in the 40yd dash?

So to really answer your question - It depends.......If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

 

[beer 302]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

 

[davegameplayer]

Got in a couple workouts this weekend and ran 5 miles at 915 for a 46:22. It was a good run and felt I had a bit left in the tank to continue on if I needed to. Four miles planned for this afternoon. Soounds like good weeks and weekends for everyone in here. Committed to running a half with a friend at the end of March in San Antonio. We will see how this goes.

 

[SFBayDuck]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.Speaking of - 5 mile slow run today, legs really feeling tired and looking forward to a day off tomorrow.

 

[Ned]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.Speaking of - 5 mile slow run today, legs really feeling tired and looking forward to a day off tomorrow.

Volume Is King should be a sticky note reminder on everyone's desks.

 

[SFBayDuck]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.Speaking of - 5 mile slow run today, legs really feeling tired and looking forward to a day off tomorrow.

Volume Is King should be a sticky note reminder on everyone's desks.

Of course there are other schools of thought, like this one I saw on my FB feed today: Ditch the Long, Slow Distance. I absolutely think there is likely some real benefit to these longer tempo runs, but also think that doing them after building a solid aerobic base will increase your ability to benefit while reducing the likelihood of getting injured.

 

[Ned]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.Speaking of - 5 mile slow run today, legs really feeling tired and looking forward to a day off tomorrow.

Volume Is King should be a sticky note reminder on everyone's desks.

Of course there are other schools of thought, like this one I saw on my FB feed today: Ditch the Long, Slow Distance. I absolutely think there is likely some real benefit to these longer tempo runs, but also think that doing them after building a solid aerobic base will increase your ability to benefit while reducing the likelihood of getting injured.

That article title is so misleading. I'm sure they did it to catch people's attention. Last sentence in the first paragraph needs to be in bold size 24 font.

If you’ve completed a few marathons and want to run faster, running long, hard runs could be a key training stimulus for you.

 

[SFBayDuck]

So to really answer your question - It depends.......

If you're looking to get faster for a race longer than a 5K (or maybe a 10K), you're best bet is to continue to work on your endurance like you are today. I can promise you that you're nowhere near your peak in terms of endurance. For most of us regular joes, I think it takes years to get every bit of endurance out of us. I'm 2.5 years and > 4,400 miles into this game and think I still have a long way to go before I tap into my full potential.

If you started to focus on track workouts and not endurance, you'll get faster. But I'll bet everything I got that your gains won't be as significant as if you worked on endurance first. It all goes back to that pyramid that we've all talked about so many times.

I say all that because your best bang for the buck to improving your times on anything of significant distance is going to be endurance work. I say this all the time to my friends/family that have become interested in running..... You could have Usain Bolt type speed, but if you don't have any endurance to sustain that speed, it's all but worthless.

Thanks Ned, pretty much what I thought but was hoping there was a magic pill out there I could take and just skip over this phase. Had a particularly disappointing morning and was wallowing in self pity. So tough to sit back and wait but I see the product of all of you guys following the training patterns you do and it's pretty straightforward. You have to put in the time, there is no short cut. I really liked the ad hoc experiment the SFDuck did with heart rate over an extended period to prove pretty much what you said. Doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.Speaking of - 5 mile slow run today, legs really feeling tired and looking forward to a day off tomorrow.

Volume Is King should be a sticky note reminder on everyone's desks.

Of course there are other schools of thought, like this one I saw on my FB feed today: Ditch the Long, Slow Distance. I absolutely think there is likely some real benefit to these longer tempo runs, but also think that doing them after building a solid aerobic base will increase your ability to benefit while reducing the likelihood of getting injured.

That article title is so misleading. I'm sure they did it to catch people's attention. Last sentence in the first paragraph needs to be in bold size 24 font.

If you’ve completed a few marathons and want to run faster, running long, hard runs could be a key training stimulus for you.

Funny, I almost added that in parenthesis after the title in my post, because it really is misleading. Pretty telling that even elites do this kind of workout no more than about once a month.

 

[gruecd]

If youve completed a few marathons and want to run faster, running long, hard runs could be a key training stimulus for you.

If you look at the 1st and 2nd editions of Pfitz's book, the only real difference in the training plans is that the 2nd edition includes more MP miles.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Yeah, when you're drawing upon world-class elite runners who are used to a steady diet of 100+ mile weeks as anecdotes to support your point, you're just not addressing the average joe who would benefit much, much more from bumping his weekly mileage from 30 to 40.

 

[beer 302]

Obviously, I agree - particularly at anything longer than 5K, it all starts with endurance. Maffetone, the biggest proponent out there of this stuff, just was interviewed on the Trail Runner Nation podcast, "Speed up by slowing down", give it a listen. The sometimes discouraging thing for me is what Ned mentions - it really takes a lot of volume over time to build up that aerobic system. Since I basically re-started my running last year, it's been only 7 months that I've averaged even 100+ miles per month and focused on building my base, so I've still got a lot of improvement ahead of me.

The podcast was damn good, been listening to it all afternoon. Will be getting the book sometime soon as well. You all pretty much know exactly what he's talking about but for any rookies like myself, this should be pinned as well.

 

[mr. furley]

heading over to check out/get fitted for a new pair of shoes tomorrow. gonna have my gait re-analyzed since i've switched from heel strike to mid-foot-forward (about 3 years ago ). i've had the same 2 pair for the last 5 years. now i'm not logging gruecd miles but i've piled some up on these pairs. took a look at the bottom of the oldest pair and it looks like they have barely been used

 

[Ned]

heading over to check out/get fitted for a new pair of shoes tomorrow. gonna have my gait re-analyzed since i've switched from heel strike to mid-foot-forward (about 3 years ago ). i've had the same 2 pair for the last 5 years. now i'm not logging gruecd miles but i've piled some up on these pairs.

took a look at the bottom of the oldest pair and it looks like they have barely been used

You must be in the jux weight division.

 

[Juxtatarot]

heading over to check out/get fitted for a new pair of shoes tomorrow. gonna have my gait re-analyzed since i've switched from heel strike to mid-foot-forward (about 3 years ago ). i've had the same 2 pair for the last 5 years. now i'm not logging gruecd miles but i've piled some up on these pairs.

took a look at the bottom of the oldest pair and it looks like they have barely been used

You must be in the jux weight division.

Hey! I can't even get 300 miles out of a pair these days!

 

[gruecd]

12 miles this afternoon at 8:07/mile. Legs were a little tired from the 15 yesterday. Hot yoga tomorrow morning and then another 11 miles tomorrow afternoon. The last time I did hot yoga in the morning, it really helped loosen up my hips and legs for my run later that same day. Hoping the same holds true tomorrow!