Ran a 10k in June (3 Viewers)

[sho nuff]

What are you going to do to win today???Well probably only Sand would understand...10 min warmup. 1-2 min active recovery between all...1 x 6 min ramp from 90% to 105% and back down based on 250 watts 1 x 1 min @ 110%1 x 6 min ramp from 90% to 105% and back down based on 250 watts1 x 1 min @ 110%1 x 1 min @ 115%1 x 1 min @ 120%1 x 6 min ramp from 90% to 105% and back down, bumped to 280 watts going forward1 x 1 min @ 110%1 x 6 min ramp from 90% to 105% and back down1 x 1 min @ 110%1 x 1 min @ 115%1 x 1 min @ 120% bumped to 300 watts to polish off the leg destruction3 min cool down....class over....or notThen the instructor hit us by surprise with the word GO as I was unclipping!!!1 mile TT, 2'40". Ended up at 336 watt avarage, hit 690 watts at the finish sprint. Hit 180 hr here, 13 over 167 threshold

 

[tri-man 47]

The neck thing, I would think, is do to the repetitive turns from left to right to get air (something I am guessing I need to build up too).

I wonder if there's a way to address that? ---5 miles yesterday with a really smooth mile at the end - 6:58 (peak HM pace). 4 miles today with four focused 400m repeats (sidewalk, not track). First one was choppy, but then hit a 6:02/mile pace on the last three. Ned, thanks for the write-up above. Annyong - what races did you sign up for?

 

[BassNBrew]

Feeling frisky tonite.1/2 weight lifting.1 mi stair mill / 1 mile tread mill / 2000m row at tempo pace

 

[pigskinliquors]

My motto for today, what are you going to do to win today? Her's was, we are going to redefine what hard is.

Love it! Awesome workout. Your workout tonight seems in comparison

stepped square on to a rock/chunk of ice at about mile 3.5 of 6 and turned my right ankle so far that the top side of my shoe scraped ground. my whole foot and most of my leg are sore

_________________FYI: It's
season

 

[Sand]

My motto for today, what are you going to do to win today? Her's was, we are going to redefine what hard is.

Most importantly, is she hot? You're going to be ripping the wheels off in no time.

The neck thing, I would think, is do to the repetitive turns from left to right to get air (something I am guessing I need to build up too).

That is a form issue. You should be rotating enough to not strain neck muscles. Note you don't need a HUGE rotation, but certainly enough to not hurt anything. Speaking of swimming, I got my sorry butt to the pool tonight for my normal Wednesday dunk. Wasn't really feeling it after the run today, but once I hit the pool I knew it was to be a good night. In fact, it was easily my best swim of the year. Highlights - 1:08 100, 2:26 200, and a 6:21 500. That 500 time with me being having basically zero swim form right now is just gaudy. I was stunned that I put that up. My typical 500 times have been 15-20 seconds slower.

So that swim on top of a great 7 miler at lunch made for one heck of a great workout day.

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

 

[BassNBrew]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

Looking forward to that.

 

[Hang 10]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

You only run 5k's? Gotta get monotonous.

 

[beer 302]

stepped square on to a rock/chunk of ice at about mile 3.5 of 6 and turned my right ankle so far that the top side of my shoe scraped ground. my whole foot and most of my leg are sore

Sorry to hear that Furley. Luckily the amount of ice you should apply to it shouldn't be a problem in your neck of the woods.

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

You only run 5k's? Gotta get monotonous.

I have done more warrior dashes and mud ninjas than 5k's lately. Venturing off into trail racing this year too. But when I do run road races they're usually 5k's. Sometimes 5 milers. If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

 

[gruecd]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

Even if you're only looking at racing shorter stuff (5K and 10K), you'll still improve your performance by adding in some longer, slower runs. Just saying.

 

[Ned]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

Even if you're only looking at racing shorter stuff (5K and 10K), you'll still improve your performance by adding in some longer, slower runs. Just saying.

I am not piling on, but I hate seeing big mistakes like this (IMHO anyways). Especially when one has the obvious talent like MAC has. You'll get faster in the short term, but I'll lay good $ that big plateau's are in the longer outlook if endurance work is going to be ignored. There's just no way around it if you want to get to your true potential.We had this conversation back in the summer. It's worth another look. here and here

 

[2Young2BBald]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

You only run 5k's? Gotta get monotonous.

I have done more warrior dashes and mud ninjas than 5k's lately. Venturing off into trail racing this year too. But when I do run road races they're usually 5k's. Sometimes 5 milers. If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

Unless things are different where you live, I can only think of one 5K trail run in the last 5 years in my area. The shortest trail race I do each year is a 5-miler. With double or single track, the crush of a 5K start would be miserable. If you are going to cross over to trails, start going long now and then to prepare for the longer distances. For the time it takes to get out to the trails and what they have to offer, whey would you want to limit things to less than a half hour?

 

[Juxtatarot]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

Even if you're only looking at racing shorter stuff (5K and 10K), you'll still improve your performance by adding in some longer, slower runs. Just saying.

I am not piling on, but I hate seeing big mistakes like this (IMHO anyways). Especially when one has the obvious talent like MAC has. You'll get faster in the short term, but I'll lay good $ that big plateau's are in the longer outlook if endurance work is going to be ignored. There's just no way around it if you want to get to your true potential.We had this conversation back in the summer. It's worth another look. here and here

There is also the time issue of logging so many training hours. From reading his posts, running is a smaller part of his overall fitness plan than it is for some of us. It seems like he's trying to get the best results he can without spending the hours and hours dedicated to long, slow runs. I don't think that's wrong. It's just a preference. And I certainly think he can reach his 5K goals doing it his way.

 

[gruecd]

And I certainly think he can reach his 5K goals doing it his way.

Reach his goals? Probably. Maximize his potential? No.But like you said, it's just a matter of what he's trying to accomplish. If he's just trying to stay in shape, then I agree that yes, he'll be just fine sticking with what he's doing.

 

[sho nuff]

My lungs and sinuses hate me again this week.Struggled through a run monday as I was coming down with this crap.Was supposed to do a hill workout yesterday and made it the mile out the door of warmup and jogged it home for a short 2 mile run. My breathing was awful and my HR was rising with it even at slower paces.Time to head to the doc today to get my lungs listened to (history of sinus problems, asthma and bronchitis when this crap flares up) rest up for 2 days and hopefully get some sort of run in on Saturday.

 

[Sand]

If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.- 5Ks are really expensive for what you get. - The 10K distance is perfect for being able to run a race of reasonable length and not have a long recovery period. - Neither the training nor the race take up and entire day.To put it graphically, this is a graph showing the relative awesomeness of running distance. Stick 10k at the peak and the 5k distance somewhere on that slippery downslope to hell (hell, in this case, being zero). With the marathon somewhere out there on the long, slow crawl to hell.Any questions? (not that we really need to field any, this really isn't up for debate. )

 

[Hang 10]

If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.- 5Ks are really expensive for what you get. - The 10K distance is perfect for being able to run a race of reasonable length and not have a long recovery period. - Neither the training nor the race take up and entire day.To put it graphically, this is a graph showing the relative awesomeness of running distance. Stick 10k at the peak and the 5k distance somewhere on that slippery downslope to hell (hell, in this case, being zero). With the marathon somewhere out there on the long, slow crawl to hell.Any questions? (not that we really need to field any, this really isn't up for debate. )

 

[sho nuff]

If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.- 5Ks are really expensive for what you get. - The 10K distance is perfect for being able to run a race of reasonable length and not have a long recovery period. - Neither the training nor the race take up and entire day.To put it graphically, this is a graph showing the relative awesomeness of running distance. Stick 10k at the peak and the 5k distance somewhere on that slippery downslope to hell (hell, in this case, being zero). With the marathon somewhere out there on the long, slow crawl to hell.Any questions? (not that we really need to field any, this really isn't up for debate. )

Have actually pondered focusing more on the 10k distance in the future.Will still run the Country Music Half every year to raise money for childhood cancer research...Anyone can help by clicking Here!!!But the rest of the year I agree with you about this with the 10k. Kind of a perfect blend of speed and endurance for me.And love the graph.

 

[Ned]

If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.

- 5Ks are really expensive for what you get.

- The 10K distance is perfect for being able to run a race of reasonable length and not have a long recovery period.

- Neither the training nor the race take up and entire day.

To put it graphically, this is a graph showing the relative awesomeness of running distance. Stick 10k at the peak and the 5k distance somewhere on that slippery downslope to hell (hell, in this case, being zero). With the marathon somewhere out there on the long, slow crawl to hell.

Any questions? (not that we really need to field any, this really isn't up for debate. )

10 milers are the sweet spot. Just long enough to pace, just short enough to still be somewhat speedy.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:

- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.

I don't find this to be the case. The 10Ks that I've done usually involve 30 minutes or so of misery after a 15 minute or so start. I'd rather just put up with the 5K brand of misery instead.In fairness though, the only 10Ks I've ever done have been the one annual 10K held locally in mide-June (at 7:00 pm no less). Maybe if I was doing one on a crisp mid-October morning I would feel differently about the distance.

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

Even if you're only looking at racing shorter stuff (5K and 10K), you'll still improve your performance by adding in some longer, slower runs. Just saying.

I am not piling on, but I hate seeing big mistakes like this (IMHO anyways). Especially when one has the obvious talent like MAC has. You'll get faster in the short term, but I'll lay good $ that big plateau's are in the longer outlook if endurance work is going to be ignored. There's just no way around it if you want to get to your true potential.We had this conversation back in the summer. It's worth another look. here and here

I don't disagree with anything above. After reviewing last year and looking ahead at this year... Making time for family, a new job, expanding personal training again, all while maintaining higher energy levels... To make it work i cannot commit to the long and slow runs. I will try to find the middle ground like last year and probably end up like last year... Tired, sore, no energy, increasing body fat because I either won't make time for strength training or i will half ### it.

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

You forgot 0.1...

Lol, saving that for race day. Have a couple in mind for spring. Need to link with my schedule. Getting to sub 18 this year

You only run 5k's? Gotta get monotonous.

I have done more warrior dashes and mud ninjas than 5k's lately. Venturing off into trail racing this year too. But when I do run road races they're usually 5k's. Sometimes 5 milers. If I can ever find a 10k around here that fits my schedule i would train for that though.

Unless things are different where you live, I can only think of one 5K trail run in the last 5 years in my area. The shortest trail race I do each year is a 5-miler. With double or single track, the crush of a 5K start would be miserable. If you are going to cross over to trails, start going long now and then to prepare for the longer distances. For the time it takes to get out to the trails and what they have to offer, whey would you want to limit things to less than a half hour?

Just introduced to a series around here with races ranging from 5K to seven miles. Longer ones too, just won't do those. We have lots of trail like courses within 15 minutes of me so, lots of options.

 

[MAC_32]

#### yes, 3 miles in 18 minutes. That just made my day

Looks like there's a new cheetah in town

Yep, definitely speedy. That being said, still not sure what exactly he's trying to accomplish by just going out and running fast all the time....

Being in good shape. I think I shuffled last year because I focused too much on running and not enough on the rest. Constantly tired and sore. Since shifting gears and mixing high intensity strength training with running again I have gotten stronger, faster, and both my body fat and waist are down. I have a lot more energy all day and have consistently had strong workouts.

Even if you're only looking at racing shorter stuff (5K and 10K), you'll still improve your performance by adding in some longer, slower runs. Just saying.

I am not piling on, but I hate seeing big mistakes like this (IMHO anyways). Especially when one has the obvious talent like MAC has. You'll get faster in the short term, but I'll lay good $ that big plateau's are in the longer outlook if endurance work is going to be ignored. There's just no way around it if you want to get to your true potential.We had this conversation back in the summer. It's worth another look. here and here

There is also the time issue of logging so many training hours. From reading his posts, running is a smaller part of his overall fitness plan than it is for some of us. It seems like he's trying to get the best results he can without spending the hours and hours dedicated to long, slow runs. I don't think that's wrong. It's just a preference. And I certainly think he can reach his 5K goals doing it his way.

Accurate statement. Biggest issue is overall health, performance is secondary, but it is a bi product of what I am trying to accomplish in goal number one. Need to be working towards something but fitting it in my schedule.

 

[MAC_32]

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:

- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.

I don't find this to be the case. The 10Ks that I've done usually involve 30 minutes or so of misery after a 15 minute or so start. I'd rather just put up with the 5K brand of misery instead.In fairness though, the only 10Ks I've ever done have been the one annual 10K held locally in mide-June (at 7:00 pm no less). Maybe if I was doing one on a crisp mid-October morning I would feel differently about the distance.

I imagine it is just a different kind of misery too. When you're truly racing it should be. The different experience is why I want to do one.

 

[Sand]

If I may wax eloquent for a minute here. The 10K is my favorite running distance, by far. Odd choice, you may say? I say pish posh. The reason 10Ks rule:

- 5Ks hurt like the fire of 100 burning suns for 20 minutes. 10Ks are a slow burn for 45 minutes. Way, way better.

I don't find this to be the case. The 10Ks that I've done usually involve 30 minutes or so of misery after a 15 minute or so start. I'd rather just put up with the 5K brand of misery instead.In fairness though, the only 10Ks I've ever done have been the one annual 10K held locally in mide-June (at 7:00 pm no less). Maybe if I was doing one on a crisp mid-October morning I would feel differently about the distance.

I imagine it is just a different kind of misery too. When you're truly racing it should be. The different experience is why I want to do one.

I find it a much more manageable form of misery. My best 5k and 10k have been right along the McMillan line (so relatively equivalent effort), and the 10k is a much better experience.

 

[tri-man 47]

MAC ...koby ... I, for one, welcome our new speed overlords. MAC, I am not surprised to hear of your benefits from the crosstraining! It does offer numerous benefits.

 

[2Young2BBald]

The neck thing, I would think, is do to the repetitive turns from left to right to get air (something I am guessing I need to build up too).

That is a form issue. You should be rotating enough to not strain neck muscles. Note you don't need a HUGE rotation, but certainly enough to not hurt anything. Speaking of swimming, I got my sorry butt to the pool tonight for my normal Wednesday dunk. Wasn't really feeling it after the run today, but once I hit the pool I knew it was to be a good night. In fact, it was easily my best swim of the year. Highlights - 1:08 100, 2:26 200, and a 6:21 500. That 500 time with me being having basically zero swim form right now is just gaudy. I was stunned that I put that up. My typical 500 times have been 15-20 seconds slower.

So that swim on top of a great 7 miler at lunch made for one heck of a great workout day.

Way to kick ###, do you really think your form goes away that fast? While my swim form isn't great, I feel its stays consistent after layoffs. The pool, with its painted line and markers seem to act as nice guides to form for me. Got in the 3,000 yards as planned last night in under an hour (57:06) with relative easy. Looking at the Garmin data of my last few long swims, I appear to get bored as my time drop off in the middle 1,000 and my last 1,000 is the fastest of the 3. Tri-Man, I just cannot get the hang of breathing on my left and question if the effort to learn is really worth it. For the 5K swim, its through a chain of lakes with buoys for the most part on my right throughout. Of the 25+ multi-sport events I've done with a swim, I can only think of two where I was screwed being a right side breather.

 

[koby925]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way. Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing. So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

 

[Ned]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way. Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing. So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

It's not fair to compare a race coming off of down time vs. any race coming off of any sort of consistent training. Comparing your 17:22 to the 18:48 is more apples/apples (since both were during consistent training). And I'll bet if you continue your 200mi months like last year, you'll be 16x in short order.That 1:22, man.....

 

[MAC_32]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way. Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing. So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

I will bet our results are similar, when I make the time for longer runs done appropriately my times will go down. Just need to make the time, won't this year, here's hoping next year may be different.

 

[Sand]

Way to kick ###, do you really think your form goes away that fast? While my swim form isn't great, I feel its stays consistent after layoffs. The pool, with its painted line and markers seem to act as nice guides to form for me. Got in the 3,000 yards as planned last night in under an hour (57:06) with relative easy. Looking at the Garmin data of my last few long swims, I appear to get bored as my time drop off in the middle 1,000 and my last 1,000 is the fastest of the 3.

Killer swim. My swim form can vary pretty drastically. Swimming while doing 10k/week is completely different than 10k/month. So this really was a surprise. My 500 was a pretty good show of what a good day can do - held 1:17-18 for the first 300, then dropped it down to 1:13 for the last 200. That rules.

Tri-Man, I just cannot get the hang of breathing on my left and question if the effort to learn is really worth it. For the 5K swim, its through a chain of lakes with buoys for the most part on my right throughout. Of the 25+ multi-sport events I've done with a swim, I can only think of two where I was screwed being a right side breather.

Keep at it. I do 100yds per week left sided. It has taken me 3 years, but just in the last few months has it really gotten pretty good. My advice (for what it is worth) - just do a little every week. It can't hurt. ---On my end today, I had just finished up a big thing at work and today was sunny with a high of 58. I split after lunch. 40 mile ride, 4400ft. of climbing. (For BnB - 220w normalized for this ride, so not bad). Got lost a lot as I hit some spots I hadn't previously, but it was a really nice hill crawl. Even better my legs felt great at the end and I could have easily gone for a 10k run. Sadly I ran out of time.

 

[mr. furley]

stepped square on to a rock/chunk of ice at about mile 3.5 of 6 and turned my right ankle so far that the top side of my shoe scraped ground. my whole foot and most of my leg are sore

Sorry to hear that Furley. Luckily the amount of ice you should apply to it shouldn't be a problem in your neck of the woods.

hung my leg out the passenger side window on the way to work this morning. worked great

 

[Sand]

stepped square on to a rock/chunk of ice at about mile 3.5 of 6 and turned my right ankle so far that the top side of my shoe scraped ground. my whole foot and most of my leg are sore

Sorry to hear that Furley. Luckily the amount of ice you should apply to it shouldn't be a problem in your neck of the woods.

hung my leg out the passenger side window on the way to work this morning. worked great

This thread is so much better with you in it Furl.

 

[beer 302]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

 

[Sand]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

:X

 

[mr. furley]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

:X

 

[SteveC702]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way. Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing. So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

Are the courses where you ran 18:48 and 19:16 certified and/or did you run with a garmin? Half of the 5Ks in my town are always mismeasured and I finally gave in last year after running what I thought was a pretty solid race but ended up coming in at 16:52 because I suspected the course was long. Surely enough the next week I wore my garmin and ran 17:18 on a "5K" course that was actually 3.3 miles (but didn't get discouraged because I knew the distance I was racing this time) and finally hit 15:40 on a certified 5K a month later. (garmin measured 3.11 on that one)

 

[sho nuff]

Thats what we needed...another new guy faster than crap.Piss off you people.

 

[beer 302]

Thats what we needed...another new guy faster than crap.Piss off you people.

Welcome to the thread, #### you very much

 

[Ned]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way.

Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing.

So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

Are the courses where you ran 18:48 and 19:16 certified and/or did you run with a garmin? Half of the 5Ks in my town are always mismeasured and I finally gave in last year after running what I thought was a pretty solid race but ended up coming in at 16:52 because I suspected the course was long. Surely enough the next week I wore my garmin and ran 17:18 on a "5K" course that was actually 3.3 miles (but didn't get discouraged because I knew the distance I was racing this time) and finally hit 15:40 on a certified 5K a month later. (garmin measured 3.11 on that one)

Your GPS will rarely (I want to say never, but ya know.....) match the course distance exactly. All certified courses are wheel measured and take the center line on turns. It's just a combination of the variances you naturally get from GPS technology and you not running perfect tangents.Congrats on the 15:40! That is smoking fast. How old are you?

Don't be a stranger. Let us know how your training/racing goes.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

:X

Yeah, that sounds awful.

 

[Hang 10]

Yeah, I remember that time I was so bummed that I didn't break 17 minutes on a 5k...but then realized that I had just run an 8k and broke the world record by 4 minutes! LOLZ

 

[beer 302]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

:X

Yeah, that sounds awful.

The relief is better than the secks, trust me

 

[FUBAR]

Ran one of my favorite shorter workouts this morning - hill intervals with push-ups.warm-up 1/2 mileuphill (mostly, it tapers off at the .3 mark) 1/2 Mile, 50 pushups, jog back 1/2 Mile; repeat 4X for time. The only thing that I'm not a huge fan of for this workout is jogging when running overall for time, but as this is supposed to be intervals / speed work, the rest is needed. uphill ended up being 3:11, 3:19, 3:12, 3:18; downhills were a fairly consistent 4:15. Total time 34:42.cool-down 1/2 mileAlmost threw-up during the 4th interval.

 

[FUBAR]

Been a long time since I had to drill a nail but the almost instant relief is soooo worth it. Like popping a cork on a champaign bottle

:X

Yeah, that sounds awful.

The relief is better than the secks, trust me

I usually just pull it off.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Ran one of my favorite shorter workouts this morning - hill intervals with push-ups.warm-up 1/2 mileuphill (mostly, it tapers off at the .3 mark) 1/2 Mile, 50 pushups, jog back 1/2 Mile; repeat 4X for time. The only thing that I'm not a huge fan of for this workout is jogging when running overall for time, but as this is supposed to be intervals / speed work, the rest is needed. uphill ended up being 3:11, 3:19, 3:12, 3:18; downhills were a fairly consistent 4:15. Total time 34:42.cool-down 1/2 mileAlmost threw-up during the 4th interval.

That's awesome.

 

[koby925]

Well, I probably train too fast at times too, but I have altered my approach now that I am dedicating more time to it. A couple of years ago when I first made my comeback I was doing more lifting and shorter faster runs like MAC is doing. I was doing a lot of 2-4 mile runs at 6:30-6:50 pace. But only 10-12 miles a week. My first comeback race was an 18:48 5k. Yet the other day, I ran 19:16 off of more (albeit still not great) mileage for my first race of the season. I've been doing 20-25 miles in the 7:30-7:40 range mostly. Did I somehow get 30 seconds slower despite a good year last year of training? I doubt it. At least I hope not. But in the case of 2 years ago, I only ran a couple more races on that short mileage training plan so it was a small sample, but I felt myself plateauing. I think I got down to 18:23 in the third race. But the training runs weren't feeling any easier. Then when I started packing the miles on and slowing down (and adding speed once a week), the training runs were getting easier and easier, even with added mileage and I eventually ran 17:22. Not to mention 1:22:05 for a half which isn't much off of the 5k pace I ran the other day, but for 10 more miles. Could I have broken 18 by running fast runs and racing only? Probably but I know I don't think I would've gotten down to 17:22 and I don't know if I could've broken 1:40 in a Half training that way. Like 2 years ago, I think if I had run faster runs in December and January then my first race of the season the other day would've been faster. But by going slower and longer as the others are advocating, and of course doing a designated speed day, I know that I will have a better year of overall racing. So long story short I agree with others that with MAC's talent, he can probably break 18 on his plan. But with more time and mileage he could likely go sub 17 and run good times for longer races. I will be interested to see how it progresses.

Are the courses where you ran 18:48 and 19:16 certified and/or did you run with a garmin? Half of the 5Ks in my town are always mismeasured and I finally gave in last year after running what I thought was a pretty solid race but ended up coming in at 16:52 because I suspected the course was long. Surely enough the next week I wore my garmin and ran 17:18 on a "5K" course that was actually 3.3 miles (but didn't get discouraged because I knew the distance I was racing this time) and finally hit 15:40 on a certified 5K a month later. (garmin measured 3.11 on that one)

I try to stick to certified courses. I think I've only run one since my comeback a couple years ago that wasn't certified and that was more for fun. You bring up a good point, though with PRs. For example, and this happened in an inaugural race in PA before I left in a race I watched, the course turned out to be 2.9 and people were running "PRs". I would never count that as a PR but some novice runners were..."I ran a 2 minute PR!!" I really didn't put as much stock on road race and cross country PRs back when I was running times like you are. There's so much variance depending on the course elevation, surface, etc. Track times were obviously much more of a transferrable gauge. At your times I may even say I ran 16:00 but it was a hard course vs. the 15:40 which was a faster course. But for my old man purposes these days, I think using certified course times pretty much does the trick. Unless you PR at noticeably tough or easy courses. Like Boston...so I hear.

 

[koby925]

SteveC702, let us know what races you do. And your age/goals, etc. I am doing another 5k next weekend because of a good cause (Special Olympics) and a certified course that competitive people have run in the past. And racing is serving as my speedwork for now until I re-engage with some speed. Mileage is creeping up too. I am at 20 with the weekend left. I want to increase but not from 25 to 40 all of the sudden so I think I will end up in the low 30s for the week. Then mid to high 30s next week and so on. Still not thinking I'm gonna set the world on fire in this race, but I would like to see progress. Goal is sub 19.