Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)

[BassNBrew]

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Most are able to reset and get past this. Hopefully someone chimes in with specifics.

 

[BassNBrew]

Ned alert

10K Split in 46:58.

Pace 7:34 min/Mile.

Estimated Finish Time: 3:18:07.

Estimated Time of Arrival: 10:22:14.

Update?

As much as I like Ned, I don't want want a gazillion people marketing to me. That's bs you have to registar to track a runner.

 

[SteveC702]

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Th

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Most are able to reset and get past this. Hopefully someone chimes in with specifics.

Yeah I think that happened to mine before as well. Do you have the instructions still? Otherwise try holding down all the buttons for 10 seconds or so or something. There's a small chance it might restore it to original/factory settings, but better than having to buy a new one right? (unless you were just looking for an excuse)

 

[2Young2BBald]

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Most are able to reset and get past this. Hopefully someone chimes in with specifics.

Its different with every model. I had to call Garmin when my 310XT hosed up and it was a series of 3 or 4 steps that got it to work. Unfortunately, the data (which was 10+ things including 2 races) was lost.

 

[Annyong]

Speaking of Garmins, I think I am due to unload all of this data onto a site. What would you guys recommend?

 

[2Young2BBald]

Speaking of Garmins, I think I am due to unload all of this data onto a site. What would you guys recommend?

Garmin Connect is all I need. Free, tons of analytics and integrated mapping. From the start, be specific and consistent in how you label workouts, races, etc. I have almost 5-years of data stored and its awesome to use the analyze/search function to look at my performance at the same event year after year (looking at pace, HR, elevation changes, impact of weather, etc).

 

[SteveC702]

Ned alert

10K Split in 46:58.

Pace 7:34 min/Mile.

Estimated Finish Time: 3:18:07.

Estimated Time of Arrival: 10:22:14.

Update?

As much as I like Ned, I don't want want a gazillion people marketing to me. That's bs you have to registar to track a runner.

3:32:33 chip time. Nicely done man.

 

[beer 302]

Looking for a little ultra advice from the group. Trying to put some semblance of a plan together to reach my goal of a 50k on Dec 7th with basically an unlimited time. My training plan will be similar to a BnB plan in that my long run in the last few months has been around 10 miles. I am hoping to get around 16 in next week. The run is a 3.1 mile loop on pretty flat trails. There was some technical parts but I think they redesigned the course to alleviate those and make it more runner friendly.

My target pace is 12:30/mile which is hard to do at first but gets easier as I progress toward the goal I assume the first lap or two I'll come in quicker than that regardless of how much I try to slow down and conserve. If I stick to that plan that puts me at about 6 1/2 hours of running time. I'd really like to come in around 5 hours if at all possible but I don't have confidence in my ankle or back to be able to hold the pace for that long. I'm assuming 15 minutes of rest/walk time an hour which extends the time out to over 8 hours. Is that too much time for ####### off? I have absolutely no experience here.

Also, what kind of fueling should be I be prepping for? I ate a raw potato covered in salt for the first time today, this in itself will be a challenge but I tend to run on an empty stomach so I'll need to fuel up on something. This is one of those fun, run as much as you want events that typically have a pretty fair spread available all the time but I want to bring something I'm accustomed to. PBJ work? Again, I have no idea here.

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Ned alert

10K Split in 46:58.

Pace 7:34 min/Mile.

Estimated Finish Time: 3:18:07.

Estimated Time of Arrival: 10:22:14.

Update?

As much as I like Ned, I don't want want a gazillion people marketing to me. That's bs you have to registar to track a runner.

3:32:33 chip time. Nicely done man.

His PR is 3:31:20, so he just barely missed. Weather wasn't ideal being warm for November.

 

[Sand]

Speaking of Garmins, I think I am due to unload all of this data onto a site. What would you guys recommend?

Strava. Then look at all that data on veloviewer.

 

[prosopis]

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Th

my Garmin 305 stopped working this morning while I was downloading the last week's workouts. Won't even turn on now.

Decent timing I guess with Christmas sales. Any suggestions of what sites to watch and watch to look for?

Most are able to reset and get past this. Hopefully someone chimes in with specifics.

Yeah I think that happened to mine before as well. Do you have the instructions still? Otherwise try holding down all the buttons for 10 seconds or so or something. There's a small chance it might restore it to original/factory settings, but better than having to buy a new one right? (unless you were just looking for an excuse)

Do a google search I was able to do a reset on mine. I do not remember the specifics but it was not hard to do.

 

[FUBAR]

Thanks guys, will try it later.

I would like a new watch, but also want a bike trainer and iPad, so the watch can hopefully wait

Eta: Thanks guys worked! And didn't lose data!

 

[Ned]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

 

[FUBAR]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

That's awesome Ned! Not the bonking, but the resilience.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Time was 20:20, which is about a minute slower than I planned and had ran this summer. Could be that I've trained more long distance and tri, I think I'm fully recovered from the 70.3 three weeks ago. I did swim hard yesterday, including 500 kick but I felt fine. I'm content but will probably do another 5k soon just to get sub twenty.

Nice.

Had my 5k today. Didn't go so well. Slept thru my alarm and woke up to my brother calling me waiting at my front door to pick me up. I get dressed and run out the door. We are putting on our bibs as the horn goes off. We start about a minute after everyone. Of course my Garmin wasn't locating satellites so I have up on that and realized my bib was upside down. Screw it. Side note: I baked about 9 chicken breasts i found in the freezer last night. Me being me, I ate 8 of them. This came back to haunt me around the 1 mile mark that looped around the starting area. Penis it, I gotta crap. I stopped and ran inside and dropped a sloppy splatter of spicy chicken pooh all over the toilet. Long story short, I get back out there and cross the finish line when the timer read 25:30 (unchipped) I still beat my brother by about 4 minutes even though I stopped to poop. Then they had free beer after the race. Good deal, good cause.

So awesome.

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Get well soon! Nice job IMO.

 

[sho nuff]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

That's awesome Ned! Not the bonking, but the resilience.

YEah...a bonk to the 2nd best in non-ideal conditions can't be seen as too bad in retrospect...but definitely understand the disappointment.

 

[sho nuff]

Speaking of Garmins, I think I am due to unload all of this data onto a site. What would you guys recommend?

I like http://www.runningahead.com/

 

[tri-man 47]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Very true about the latter. Congrats on a great time (beating my season's best by a minute :finger. While not a steady pace, and not without some suffering, you still did fantastic!! Now get some rest!

 

[Annyong]

Neeeee-eeeeee-ed HANGIN' TOUGH!

 

[koby925]

Way to go Ned! I still can't imagine bonking and having 8 miles still to race. Any Marathon finish is a huge accomplishment and you should hold your head high. Just goes to show that you have 3:25 or so in you some day...

 

[prosopis]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Congrats on finishing.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Looking for a little ultra advice from the group. Trying to put some semblance of a plan together to reach my goal of a 50k on Dec 7th with basically an unlimited time. My training plan will be similar to a BnB plan in that my long run in the last few months has been around 10 miles. I am hoping to get around 16 in next week. The run is a 3.1 mile loop on pretty flat trails. There was some technical parts but I think they redesigned the course to alleviate those and make it more runner friendly.

My target pace is 12:30/mile which is hard to do at first but gets easier as I progress toward the goal I assume the first lap or two I'll come in quicker than that regardless of how much I try to slow down and conserve. If I stick to that plan that puts me at about 6 1/2 hours of running time. I'd really like to come in around 5 hours if at all possible but I don't have confidence in my ankle or back to be able to hold the pace for that long. I'm assuming 15 minutes of rest/walk time an hour which extends the time out to over 8 hours. Is that too much time for ####### off? I have absolutely no experience here.

Also, what kind of fueling should be I be prepping for? I ate a raw potato covered in salt for the first time today, this in itself will be a challenge but I tend to run on an empty stomach so I'll need to fuel up on something. This is one of those fun, run as much as you want events that typically have a pretty fair spread available all the time but I want to bring something I'm accustomed to. PBJ work? Again, I have no idea here.

Any advice is appreciated!

Not sure where to start. Obviously your long runs are more in line with 1/2 marathon training than a 50K. But that is what it is at this point. Hopefully you have enough of a base built up (as BnB obviously does) that you can get by on that.

The course looks relatively flat, just some rolling stuff, so you should be ok there. In terms of pace, I'd still let the course dictate it - run flats and downs, and walk at least some of the ups. Run by a pre-determined easy HR or perceived exertion, keeping it easy. Especially with the lack of long runs in your training, I'd suggest doing that from the beginning, and not waiting until you start to feel the fatigue. If you know you can cover a distance it may make sense to try and bank some time in the early miles. If it's new to you, I'd go more conservative from the start.

If you're going to be moving for 6-8 hours you obviously will need to take in calories, ideally in the range of 200-280 per hour. Don't stress that number - just remember to eat early and often. I try to find out what they'll have at the aid station as that just makes it easier than worrying about having your own stuff. Usually they'll have boiled potatoes (no, they don't make you eat raw ones!), pb&j, pretzels, goldfish, candy, gels, etc. I'd suggest practicing on your long training runs with what you plan to eat, although it sounds like that may be just one or two but do what you can. If you can take in some protein or amino acids (GU Roctane, for example, but pb&j would obviously work), I find that helps when going this long. My plan for ultras is typically liquid calories supplemented with some potatoes and Coke, along with Master Amino Acid Pattern tablets, but everyone is different in what they can handle. Some people rely strictly on gels and water for up to 100 miles, while others have goat-like stomachs and are downing burritos and pizza and grilled cheese.

The good news is that you hit that aid station every 5K, so you don't really need to carry more than a water bottle - even if you walk the entire lap at 15:00/mile, you shouldn't need more than that to get you through 45 minutes. Consider leaving the aid station with some food in your hand and eating as you move if trying to save time.

Another important piece of advice I'd offer up is take care of small issues before they become big ones. You may be able to gut out a blister for 20 minutes to finish a marathon, but that's pretty tough to do when you have 2 hours left to go in an ultra. So take care of your feet, watch the chafing, and stay on top of hydration and nutrition.

Other than that - just keep moving forward.

 

[beer 302]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

I don't think I fully appreciated 26.2 until yesterday. I stood at the 20 mile mark and watched a good potion of the leaders pass by waiting for a friend. There were very few that looked like they were enjoying themselves. As the times slipped by 3 hrs, 4 hrs, 4:30 hrs you could see what a toll it was taking on each successive group. What an incredible accomplishment to run that distance. I was in awe of everyone there.I know you might consider this as a less than ideal finish but it's still pretty freaking amazing to sit back and say I just ran 26.2 miles. Great job today Ned!

 

[SteelCurtain]

Ned -- as I tracked you today I watched closely and saw your pace starting to slip a bit I worried. Still amazing job in what you did. It was warm today (I know as I was doing a overnight program on the USS New Jersey last night with my son's cub scouts pack.) I can't imagine bonking at 18 and dealing with the hills at miles 19/20 and then that damn hill at mile 25. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you said you were going for broke....and you did it. Congrats on an amazing run and to challenging yourself and breaking through the adversity.

I have to admit, I have never bonked in any of my marathons. I wonder if I'm pushing the upper limit as much as I should. So, in many ways, I'm jealous that you went out and pushed the limits. Of course, no desire to have that pain for 8+ miles.

Get some rest. You have earned it. I'm running NYC in 2014 and would love if you decided to join me. (hint hint).

Also -- hearty congrats to Comfortably Numb in completing his first marathon. He isn't here often but he's a FBG who I met last year at Philly (he was running the half then.) Great guy and glad he conquered the 26.2 distance.

 

[BassNBrew]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Ned...put it behind you. First of all, congrats on not quitting and crossing the line.

That said, don't let this slow you down. You're a 3:15 guy and eventual Boston qualifier. It didn't what happen today for some reason set you back. Take some time off, solve the problem and move on.

 

[Sand]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Ned...put it behind you. First of all, congrats on not quitting and crossing the line.

That said, don't let this slow you down. You're a 3:15 guy and eventual Boston qualifier. It didn't what happen today for some reason set you back. Take some time off, solve the problem and move on.

Yeah - no ####. On a good day you have this.

 

[SteveC702]

Appreciate the sweat guys. I'm in so much forkin pain......

I went for broke, and paid the price. I'll dive into the data tomorrow and give a full RR. I saw some early warning signs and tried to adjust, but it just wasn't enough. I just didn't have it today. I bonked really hard at 18 and just went into survival mode. I'm just happy I ran the while thing with no walking. A 1:52 second half seems like a small miracle, in retrospect.

Happy to bonk my way to my second fastest marathon, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed too.

Lesson learned: never take 26.2 for granted.

Ned...put it behind you. First of all, congrats on not quitting and crossing the line.

That said, don't let this slow you down. You're a 3:15 guy and eventual Boston qualifier. It didn't what happen today for some reason set you back. Take some time off, solve the problem and move on.

Yeah - no ####. On a good day you have this.

Third-ed. Keep at it and you'll knock it out of the park soon.

 

[Ned]

Appreciate all of the support. As always, I think about this crew a lot during races. This place is really the backbone of my running (as weird as that may sound). I knew going in that bonking was a possibility, but I had to go for it. I've never felt stronger in my life. In hindsight, I think I was a bit overconfident and took the race for granted, but oh well. Live and learn!

OK, on to the RR...

2013 Philly Marathon

As with most big marathons now, security has increased a lot. In the confirmation email, they strongly urged runners to get to the start/finish area at 5AM to give enough time to get through security screenings. Great, that's 1 less hour I'd have to sleep. It ended up not mattering to me, but it sucked dragging my wife/kids out of bed at 3AM. I was up and checking the alarm every hour and ended up getting up at 2:50 anyway.

Morning routine was fine... except I didn't purge like I wanted to. It ended up being a running joke between me, comfortably numb, and my sister. None of us dumped like we hoped. Anyways, we got to the start area at 5AM and security was a breeze. We quickly regretted getting there so early. Standing around for 2hrs sucked. The 3 of us somehow managed to screw it all up and were standing in portapot lines at 6:55. I quickly got through and was in my corral with 2 minutes to spare.

The plan was to go out at a 7:35ish pace and see how it felt. If it was too hard/easy or my HR was too high/low (165) after the first 5mi I'd adjust accordingly. I was in the black corral (#2 after elites), so we were out of the gate about 4mins after the gun. Things seemed a lot more congested than I remember. One chick took a nasty spill right next to me around mile 2, nearly taking me out. She hit the deck hard! I settled in as best as I can and felt pretty good. My HR was within reason and pacing was spot on, so I continued on. First 5mi: 7:42/161, 7:33/169, 7:25/163, 7:45/165, 7:29/171

I noticed somewhere around mile 8 that I was sticking to the 171 HR. It was so consistent I wondered if the HRM was stuck. I decided to back off a click. I wasn't comfortable running that high that soon. Otherwise, I felt good. The spectators on Chestnut St. (miles 6+) were amazing, as usual. The energy you get from this section is unreal. I also noticed here that I was sweating a lot. Way more than any other marathon. I made sure to hit every water station from here on out.

Miles 8 and 9 have some good elevation to them, with mile 9 being the better hill of the 2. A solid but not undo-able hill. Long enough that some people walk it. I felt good here and got some chills thinking about how good I felt after hitting the top at mile 10. A quick gel and water and I noticed for the first time that instead of holding back, I was pushing to stay on pace. By mile 11, I knew something wasn't quite right. I decided to dial it back a notch again. By the time I hit the halfway mark, I knew for the first time that I was in trouble. Miles 6-13: 7:26/171, 7:27/171, 7:55/172, 7:30/170, 7:58/173, 7:42/170, 7:33/172, 7:45/173 Halfway split = 1:40:49 (3:21 pace)

Miles 14-17 are the quietest section of the course as you run along the Schuylkill River. It was here that I really started to notice things were going bad. I tried to dial it back some more. Slowing my pace but an increasing HR was the final sign (splits in red); I'm in deep trouble. I started to rationalize things and decided to see if I could maybe still hit 3:25. So I tried to stick with a 7:5x pace, knowing that I had some time banked. There's also the hilliest section of the course coming up at 17-20, so I needed to be very careful. I hit the East Falls bridge at mile 17 and the subsequent hills. That took way too much out of me. I was toast. I have no idea what my split was here - the stupid GPS signal went out for the second year. I went from being about +0.2 on the mileage to -0.05. I know I slowed here, but it definitely wasn't 9:30 slow. Miles 14-18: 7:39/172, 7:57/173, 7:51/175, 7:51/176, 9:30/176 30K split = 2:24:48 (3:23 pace)

Shortly after the 30K mat, we enter Manyunk. My arch nemesis. The hills really aren't all that on the surface; it's the location that kills me. I hit the wall hard here. Energy levels fell off a cliff and I was instantly in survival mode. The 3:25 pace group passed me here. I tried to stay with the group, but I just didn't have it. I was getting passed a lot. I kept trying to pick out a partner to try and stick with, but no matter who I picked or what I did, I just kept slowly falling back. It was demoralizing. After climbing out of Manyunk, I reset the goal to 3:29. I convinced myself I could do that. I had just finished the hardest part of the course, and I'm still able to think somewhat clearly. I can do this.....

I was OK for a mile or 2, relatively speaking. I was in misery, but I was able to keep going. No real mantras really hit me. I just absolutely refused to walk. I don't think there's anything more dejecting than stopping to walk or quitting. So I focused on that. I tried everything to distract myself from the pain. Focus on the hot chicks. Don't let that old guy pass you. OK don't let that walk/run chick pass you. None of it worked, but I was still moving at least.

Things became increasingly harder and slower. It was the typical grind to a halt feeling, but hell if I'm quitting now. I could've easily mailed it in and did a walk/run back to the finish, but I just can't do that. I wouldn't be able to live with it. I knew by mile 24 that 3:29 was out and that 3:31 (PR) was in doubt. I tried like hell to push, but my legs were torched. If I opened my stride, my right hamstring immediately tightened up. If I shortened my stride, I couldn't keep the turnover up. I was stuck in plodding mode. At mile 26 I remembered Mom standing there last year and I choked up. My throat literally closed up and it freaked my out. I had to put her out of my mind and keep going.

It was an ugly finish, but damn it I finished without quitting and it's my second fastest marathon. So there's that! Miles 19-26.2: 8:10/176, 8:28/175, 8:45/174, 8:38/173, 8:58/171, 8:52/168, 9:24/171, 9:25/175, final 0.2 'sprint' 8:17/175

Total time 3:32:33. Good for 1,665/10,889 OA; 236/946 AG

Still very proud of my marathon progression... I still believe I am a Boston marathoner in the coming years. Just have to keep putting in the work.

 

[Ned]

Ned -- as I tracked you today I watched closely and saw your pace starting to slip a bit I worried. Still amazing job in what you did. It was warm today (I know as I was doing a overnight program on the USS New Jersey last night with my son's cub scouts pack.) I can't imagine bonking at 18 and dealing with the hills at miles 19/20 and then that damn hill at mile 25. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you said you were going for broke....and you did it. Congrats on an amazing run and to challenging yourself and breaking through the adversity.

I have to admit, I have never bonked in any of my marathons. I wonder if I'm pushing the upper limit as much as I should. So, in many ways, I'm jealous that you went out and pushed the limits. Of course, no desire to have that pain for 8+ miles.

Get some rest. You have earned it. I'm running NYC in 2014 and would love if you decided to join me. (hint hint).

Also -- hearty congrats to Comfortably Numb in completing his first marathon. He isn't here often but he's a FBG who I met last year at Philly (he was running the half then.) Great guy and glad he conquered the 26.2 distance.

I just may take you up on NYC. As much as I love Philly, its time to try somewhere different. Awesome to see you healthy and back in the saddle!

I'm betting I can convince CN to join us. We asked him yesterday on the walk back to the car "so do you think you'll do another one?" "Maybe" was his answer. So that's a YES.

 

[worrierking]

Great report and great effort. Ned. You went for it and when you weren't going to make any of your goals, you didn't quit. You should be proud of both of those things.

I am guessing the weather had a lot to do with your fade.

 

[Hang 10]

Good work, Ned. Nice to hear to pushed to the end...that's the only way to do it IMO. You'll get there eventually with your work ethic and it will be all the sweeter overcoming races like this when you do.

 

[Ned]

Great report and great effort. Ned. You went for it and when you weren't going to make any of your goals, you didn't quit. You should be proud of both of those things.

I am guessing the weather had a lot to do with your fade.

Thanks. I am over the missed goals. Last year I would've been equally as geeked over 3:32 as I was over 3:31. Bonking to a 3:32 is says a lot (now that I've had 24hrs to process it!).

It was warm and probably paid a bigger role than I'm willing to admit. You made me go look at the historical weather... Ugh.

TIME    TEMP DEW PT6:54AM  53.1 48.97:27AM  53.6 48.27:54AM  54.0 50.08:54AM  55.0 52.09:30AM  57.2 53.69:54AM  57.9 53.110:54AM 60.1 55.0

 

[Juxtatarot]

Interesting write up, Ned. Your experience was the same as my Boston experience (although I walked!) as well as a couple other marathons. In fact, it is very, very similar to a marathon in Arizona in 2010 where I slowed in the end (but didn't walk!), missed my goal and finished in 3:32:22. So I've certainly been there and know how you must feel.

If I recall correctly, you posted recently about maybe changing up you training for next time. I think it would be a good idea to try some things differently and see how your body responds. I have some specific opinions for you but it's probably too soon for you to plan training for the next one. I'll wait for now!

 

[sho nuff]

Great write up Ned...awesome that you pushed on.

And yes, I know the demoralizing feeling of slowing to a walk...it sucked...it also sucked knowing that starting to run again would hurt even worse at times...so Id jog, plod through it...tighten up and walk...and rinse and repeat.

Such a dejected feeling but there was no way I was giving up...worked too damn hard last year for that.

The race, while tough, is not the reason I may never run another Marathon...its the training. That constant mental and physical grind of marathon training.

Especially knowing the last time I put myself through it...I came up disappointed with the result.

 

[Ned]

Interesting write up, Ned. Your experience was the same as my Boston experience (although I walked!) as well as a couple other marathons. In fact, it is very, very similar to a marathon in Arizona in 2010 where I slowed in the end (but didn't walk!), missed my goal and finished in 3:32:22. So I've certainly been there and know how you must feel.

If I recall correctly, you posted recently about maybe changing up you training for next time. I think it would be a good idea to try some things differently and see how your body responds. I have some specific opinions for you but it's probably too soon for you to plan training for the next one. I'll wait for now!

I'm all ears, GB. As much as this distance hurts, I still love it. I want to learn as much as I can.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Interesting write up, Ned. Your experience was the same as my Boston experience (although I walked!) as well as a couple other marathons. In fact, it is very, very similar to a marathon in Arizona in 2010 where I slowed in the end (but didn't walk!), missed my goal and finished in 3:32:22. So I've certainly been there and know how you must feel.

If I recall correctly, you posted recently about maybe changing up you training for next time. I think it would be a good idea to try some things differently and see how your body responds. I have some specific opinions for you but it's probably too soon for you to plan training for the next one. I'll wait for now!

I'm all ears, GB. As much as this distance hurts, I still love it. I want to learn as much as I can.

OK, but I should be working now and it will take some time to write up. Within a few days.

 

[tri-man 47]

2013 Philly Marathon

Miles 14-18: 7:39/172, 7:57/173, 7:51/175, 7:51/176, 9:30/176 30K split = 2:24:48 (3:23 pace)

Shortly after the 30K mat, we enter Manyunk. Energy levels fell off a cliff and I was instantly in survival mode.

Miles 19-26.2: 8:10/176, 8:28/175, 8:45/174, 8:38/173, 8:58/171, 8:52/168, 9:24/171, 9:25/175, final 0.2 'sprint' 8:17/175

Ned, I recognize how tough it is to make early in-race adjustments. You saw the higher HR, but took the good gamble to give it a shot.

Having recently bonked myself in mile 20 of my last marathon, I feel your pain! When the energy's gone ...it's just gone. I see signs here in miles 23-25 that your body was trying to stay at the 171 average HR you had been carrying along. With no fuel, your body was saying "that's the limit." So what's extremely impressive to me is how you fought through that in miles 17-22. Despite seeking external triggers from the runners around you, the battle was internal, as evidenced in miles 20-22 as the pace climbed and the HR slowly came down. That was a battle you could not win. But dang, you tried! And those last ten miles demonstrate what a fighter you are! Be proud of that great effort and solid time.

 

[beer 302]

2013 Philly Marathon

I was OK for a mile or 2, relatively speaking. I was in misery, but I was able to keep going. No real mantras really hit me. I just absolutely refused to walk. I don't think there's anything more dejecting than stopping to walk or quitting. So I focused on that. I tried everything to distract myself from the pain. Focus on the hot chicks. Don't let that old guy pass you. OK don't let that walk/run chick pass you. None of it worked, but I was still moving at least.

Things became increasingly harder and slower. It was the typical grind to a halt feeling, but hell if I'm quitting now. I could've easily mailed it in and did a walk/run back to the finish, but I just can't do that. I wouldn't be able to live with it. I knew by mile 24 that 3:29 was out and that 3:31 (PR) was in doubt. I tried like hell to push, but my legs were torched. If I opened my stride, my right hamstring immediately tightened up. If I shortened my stride, I couldn't keep the turnover up. I was stuck in plodding mode. At mile 26 I remembered Mom standing there last year and I choked up. My throat literally closed up and it freaked my out. I had to put her out of my mind and keep going.

Dude you just rock, so cool to read this. Don't know what an inspiration that is to guys like me. Awesome job Ned!

 

[Ned]

2013 Philly Marathon

Miles 14-18: 7:39/172, 7:57/173, 7:51/175, 7:51/176, 9:30/176 30K split = 2:24:48 (3:23 pace)

Shortly after the 30K mat, we enter Manyunk. Energy levels fell off a cliff and I was instantly in survival mode.

Miles 19-26.2: 8:10/176, 8:28/175, 8:45/174, 8:38/173, 8:58/171, 8:52/168, 9:24/171, 9:25/175, final 0.2 'sprint' 8:17/175

Ned, I recognize how tough it is to make early in-race adjustments. You saw the higher HR, but took the good gamble to give it a shot.

Having recently bonked myself in mile 20 of my last marathon, I feel your pain! When the energy's gone ...it's just gone. I see signs here in miles 23-25 that your body was trying to stay at the 171 average HR you had been carrying along. With no fuel, your body was saying "that's the limit." So what's extremely impressive to me is how you fought through that in miles 17-22. Despite seeking external triggers from the runners around you, the battle was internal, as evidenced in miles 20-22 as the pace climbed and the HR slowly came down. That was a battle you could not win. But dang, you tried! And those last ten miles demonstrate what a fighter you are! Be proud of that great effort and solid time.

This is an awesome post, appreciate you taking the time to analyze. Very good observation on the 171 number. It's right where I've always felt my limits were for MP'ing. When I run MP training runs, I always target mid 160s, but never let it go past 170. If anything, its a good confirmation.

It also brings back a lot of the feelings I had yesterday while I was going through it. I'm just really stubborn and dumb when it comes to this, but the bolded part always pisses me off. I refuse to admit I can't win, to a fault. I got pretty damn angry at mile 17 when I realized I just didn't have it. I think Hang 10 might be able to attest to this since it seems to come out in his posts... But damn it man, I instinctively just want to hammer through it. But in the end we're human, not robots.

That's a big part of this game that I love - testing your limits. Pass or fail, its fun to try. We all have different levels of talent, but everyone's got the same end game. Find your limit.

Sorry I'm hogging the thread - this was just a big learning experience all around. Hope others benefit from my stubbornness.

 

[SteveC702]

Ned- I hear ya, the marathon is a hard distance to master, and even when you've done all the work and your body has made the fitness gains, you still need a lot of things to go right for it to all come together on race day. I'll repeat the same advice that others have given you and the one belief that I have held onto that makes me come back to the distance over and over again... you're in better shape than your race results have shown, and as long as you don't give up it's only a matter of time until it all comes together on that magical day and you knock it out of the park. I am also experiencing something similar to you right now in that I am probably in the best shape of my life over a particular distance but have come up short of a PR in one of my target races... with that said...

Rock n Roll Las Vegas Half-Marathon Report

I am usually not into the pre-race hoopla at these bigger races, with the pre-race concerts, pasta party brunches, and night before parties at clubs. (I know it's Vegas, but seriously???). However, this year they booked one of my favorite bands for the pre-race concert, so my wife and I enjoyed an hour of entertainment by the All-American Rejects in the athletes village before the race. However, we managed to get into one of the ridiculously slow porta potty lines after the concert, so instead of starting my warmup 40-45 minutes before the race like I had planned I found myself dashing out of the porta potty 20 minutes before the race and in danger of missing the start for the 2nd time in 3 years. Luckily I was able to jog the mile or so to my corral on the side of the road that wasn't blocked off and got there with a few minutes to spare.

The race:
The gun goes off and a the leaders take off along with about a dozen clowns that managed to force their way to the front of the corral and in front of the elites. I try to run nice and steady and found myself in 8th place shortly before the mile. I eventually worked my way up to the runner ahead of me just before the 5K. As I pass over the timing mat, I realize I have just run my fastest 5K of 2013. Mile splits for miles 1-3, 5K: 5:22 - 5:16 - 5:14 (16:26 5K)

I pass the runner that was in 7th, but a couple of minutes he comes right back and surges by, then I do the same thing a couple of minutes later. Finally, around 4.5-5 miles I ask him if he has a time goal and it turns out we're both trying to break 70 minutes, so I suggested that we take turns leading and breaking the wind. He agrees and we end up switching off the lead every half a mile or so, but instead of throwing in hard surges trying to break each other like before we have a temporary unspoken truce to work together to catch everyone else ahead of us that might have gone out too hard. Miles 4-6, 10K: 5:16 - 5:17 - 5:26 (33:01 10K. 2nd fastest 10K ever)

As we head towards downtown Las Vegas, I notice that it's getting darker and I can't read the time on my garmin anymore, so from this point on I was pretty much relying on the clocks at each mile mark and otherwise just running by effort. Around 7.5-8 miles, we finally see the first casualty of the fast early pace. We slowly pull him in and finally pass him around 8.5 miles. Shortly after the course leaves downtown and we're heading back towards the strip. At 9 miles I sensed the pace slowing down so I threw in a surge and lost my partner for the last few miles. Looking at the splits later though, it turned out I didn't so much pick up the pace as just maintained. A little bit after the 9 mile mark I saw a 15K sign and somehow there was enough street light for me to see my garmin reading 49x as I passed. I was temporarily amused by the thought I had gone from 0 sub-17 5Ks since April to running 3 in one day, and then I felt how tired I was getting and knew the last 20 minutes of the race was gonna hurt. Miles 6-10: 5:18 - 5:22 - 5:26 - 5:30 (53:27 10-mile. First PR of 2013!)

As I got back onto Las Vegas boulevard with about 2 miles to go I could feel the pace slowing and I was fighting hard to hang on as I knew even though my A/B goals (sub-69 / sub-70) were out the window I still had a shot at my PR. I was also dealing with some really stiff/sore quads as well as some seriously uncomfortable blisters. More importantly, I had acquired a new target as the 5th place runner is now within sight! I slowly reel him in, and hang onto nothing but the thought of catching him to distract myself from the pain, but my body just had nothing else left to give and as I crossed the 13-mile mark and see the finish line just a short 200 meters away I knew there would be no PR and I had run out of real estate to catch the 5th place finisher. I thought I heard someone coming up behind me though so I throw everything I have into the last bit of the race and finish as strongly as I can.

Miles 11-13.1: 5:31 - 5:38 - 5:39 - 34 (70:49 on my watch, 70:45 officially)

So I missed by A/B/C goals, but to be honest I was still pretty happy with the race. I went out hard and was shooting for a 60-90s PR and still managed to hang on and had a shot at a new PR with a mile to go, and to come all the way back from not even being able to handle this pace for more than 1.5 miles 3 months ago. I still don't know how it all happened, but I sure as hell hope I can close out the year with a PR or two before making some major breakthroughs in 2014.

 

[Hang 10]

I was temporarily amused by the thought I had gone from 0 sub-17 5Ks since April to running 3 in one day

Ridiculous.

You're a beast, Steve.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Fantastic, Steve! It's great to see you healthy again after the problems you've had much of the year. Keep it that way!

 

[Ned]

As I pass over the timing mat, I realize I have just run my fastest 5K of 2013.

(33:01 10K. 2nd fastest 10K ever)

(53:27 10-mile. First PR of 2013!)

(70:49 on my watch, 70:45 officially)

So I missed by A/B/C goals, but to be honest I was still pretty happy with the race. I went out hard and was shooting for a 60-90s PR and still managed to hang on and had a shot at a new PR with a mile to go, and to come all the way back from not even being able to handle this pace for more than 1.5 miles 3 months ago. I still don't know how it all happened, but I sure as hell hope I can close out the year with a PR or two before making some major breakthroughs in 2014.

Dude... To run a race like this after all of the issues you had earlier this year is friggin' astonishing! Way to go!!

I'd love to see HR data from a runner like you.

 

[Sand]

As I pass over the timing mat, I realize I have just run my fastest 5K of 2013.

(33:01 10K. 2nd fastest 10K ever)

(53:27 10-mile. First PR of 2013!)

(70:49 on my watch, 70:45 officially)

So I missed by A/B/C goals, but to be honest I was still pretty happy with the race. I went out hard and was shooting for a 60-90s PR and still managed to hang on and had a shot at a new PR with a mile to go, and to come all the way back from not even being able to handle this pace for more than 1.5 miles 3 months ago. I still don't know how it all happened, but I sure as hell hope I can close out the year with a PR or two before making some major breakthroughs in 2014.

Dude... To run a race like this after all of the issues you had earlier this year is friggin' astonishing! Way to go!!

I'd love to see HR data from a runner like you.

He has a heartbeat? I've been assuming cyborg.

(Oh yeah. Kick ### races Ned and Steve. Ned, you so have Boston next time around!)

 

[tri-man 47]

Fantastic, Steve! It's great to see you healthy again after the problems you've had much of the year. Keep it that way!

I love reading your reports! Very inspiring.

 

[FUBAR]

I was temporarily amused by the thought I had gone from 0 sub-17 5Ks since April to running 3 in one day

Ridiculous.

You're a beast, Steve.

 

[koby925]

Holy cow, Steve. Great job! I don't know how you run that fast with the issues and time off you've had. I'd love to run one of your 5ks in 2014.

 

[Hang 10]

There's obviously something with elite runners like Steve that they seem to be able to hold their 5K (or very close to it) for much longer distances. For most us weekend warrior types the drop offs between our 5k's and half marathon times are huge.

WHAT'S THE SECRET STEVE???

 

[koby925]

Don't think it's an elite vs weekend warrior issue. It's faster twitch vs slower twitch with incredible VO2 max. I knew some 1:25 weekend warrior type Half marathoners who couldn't or would barely break 20 in a 5k yet 1:25 is repeating 20:20 5ks or so. Obviously to get to elite you have to have some speed. But incredible VO2 max more important in the long races. Some long distance elites can barely break 4:20 in a mile.

Steve has a good combo of both. Most of us have one or the other.

 

[worrierking]

Steve has a good combo of both. Most of us have one or the other.

Some of us have neither! At least I have the excuse of being old.

Steve, Congrats on an astonishing performance. Wow. Nice job holding on to 5th. Great report, too.