FUBAR
Footballguy
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Ran a 10k in June (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
beer 302
Footballguy
http://www.ragnartrailrelay.com/
There's more than just this one in Atlanta, that one just happens to be closst to me. And I think we lined up corporate sponsorship today.
There's more than just this one in Atlanta, that one just happens to be closst to me. And I think we lined up corporate sponsorship today.
FUBAR
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I did catch wind of this recently, with one nearby in Lake Tahoe. Depending on how the lottery season treats me over the next month, I may try to put together or join a team for this, looks like fun.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I like that a lot! Thanks for sharing it. I believe upper length strength and flexible hips are both essential for a long, smooth stride. This exercise helps with that. It builds leg strength in a run-specific way and develops muscle memory for a good footstrike. This highlights the fact that a lot of productive training can occur indoors during these cold/snowy/icy winter days ...or the hot/humid summer days ...or days stuck inside with kid duty.
worrierking, I was meaning to ask when I saw the pace range of your times: Do you devote time to strength training? I know you are really consistent with your mileage. How do you supplement that mileage?
gruecd
Footballguy
I'm kinda considering the one in the Appalachians (WV)...
Sand
Footballguy
So it looks like I basically never run at anything under Marathon pace (and most at LT). Weird. Recovery pace would be walking. Speaking of high heart rates, did a good 8 mile long run today at 88% of max. I was pretty darn tired at start, but my HR just kept climbing through the run.
I was looking at my paces, because you guys got me curious:
5k: 6:39
10k: 7:06
HM: 7:19
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Ned
Footballguy
Recovery is an acquired taste, that's for sure. I used to really hate it because I felt ridiculous, but after getting that blood doping feeling, I'll never go without it.
You'd be shocked at how much stronger you get from slowing down your LRs.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
In doing the math: 86% of my mHR (86% of 192 = 165) is theoretically my marathon pace. Correct? My three recent marathons all averaged around that 165 mark. And where I got into trouble was when my HR climbed above 175 or so, which is my LT (91% of mHR). Huh.
Ned
Footballguy
Good to know.These aren't anything scientific, FWIW. Just something I've learned about my own HR over the past few years and reading a few books.
ETA: The marathon is all about staying just below LT, so it makes sense that you got into trouble when you blew through LT.
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Ned
Footballguy
First post-marathon run was yesterday - 5mi recovery (9:54/132). Legs weren't too bad to start, but around mile 4 my hips got really cranky. A few hrs later and both soleus' were super stiff. Had to break out the compression sleeves last night for the first time in months. This morning I feel like I do the day after a 22mi run. Yuck.
worrierking
Footballguy
I do a couple of light weight workouts and two core workouts each week. I don't think I would categorize it as "strength training." It's more like just trying to maintain some upper body fitness and definition.tri-man 47 said:
I think my biggest reasons for being slow at the marathon distance as opposed to shorter distances is my inability to handle heat (it gets warm by noon on race days) and by the fact that my anaerobic system attempts to take over in the latter stages of marathons, burning out my fuel. I have worn my HR monitor twice and each time my HR was well above 180 in the latter miles (193 measured Max). Hadd thinks the solution for people like me is more slow miles. I am trying!
Tri, it's interesting that we have similar HRs and you experienced problems above 170. Me too!
FUBAR
Footballguy
Eventually this might set in.Ned said:You'd be shocked at how much stronger you get from slowing down your LRs.
~4,000 yards in the pool this morning
100 warm-up
2 x 10:00(P,K,S) (so 60:00 total, ~650yds per interval. pretty consistent, kick was with fins)
100 cool down
The 2nd set of kick was "especially challenging". 2nd set of swim was 6x100s, 1:30 w/15s rest
MAC_32
Footballguy
Been raining for two straight days...trails are nice and coated with a couple of layers of mud right now. Wind is really supposed to start howling Saturday afternoon with the snow starting shortly thereafter. Snow is supposed to carry forward all the way up until the start of the race...when it is expected to be 20 degrees and a windchill of 4.
I like a good challenge.
Speaking of which, a few of us have been looking at the Ragnar in the Appalachians too. About a 3 hour drive for us, just trying to see if the logistics for everyone checks out. We're going to miss early registration, but hoping we make a decision by the April 4th deadline.
I like a good challenge.
Speaking of which, a few of us have been looking at the Ragnar in the Appalachians too. About a 3 hour drive for us, just trying to see if the logistics for everyone checks out. We're going to miss early registration, but hoping we make a decision by the April 4th deadline.
I've mentioned this before, but the benefit of slow training miles is to teach the body to burn fat rather than sugar/carbs. People who burn more carbs than fat can reverse this to primarily burn fat at tempo pace. Anyone running above lactate threshold during a long distance race is flat out crazy. You may allow yourself a few minutes in the red zone, but you're going to crash if you stay there. You can't take in the fuel you need to perform there.
Sand - got into the training studio today on the bike. We finished up our workout with a 2 mile 1% uphill TT. Didn't note the time, but made it .85 miles at 400 watts. I'd guesstimate that was about two minutes. I happened to check might hr as I cracked and I hit 188 which is a new pr.
I saw your statement above about hitting max hr. IMO it's much easier to do on a stationary bike than running. When you're running that hard you have to stay upright. On the stationary bike you can dole out the pain to your body without worrying about wiping out.
I saw your statement above about hitting max hr. IMO it's much easier to do on a stationary bike than running. When you're running that hard you have to stay upright. On the stationary bike you can dole out the pain to your body without worrying about wiping out.
gruecd
Footballguy
Let me know if you need somebody...
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Good points, as always, BnB. I went into my marathons with a very good sense of what I could do, based on my training. But I did not account for what I could not do ...i.e., go beyond my LT. I didn't build that "max" setting into my planning.
worrierking -
You mentioned upper body fitness. I wonder if some lower body strength training would also benefit you. You have a big drop in the pacing at the marathon level. That could be the heat, as you suggest, but maybe the legs are working too hard, and you can't keep them fueled.Oh, and as often happens at some point after season's end: My body crashed and burned. Bad cold, total body ache ..my first couple of sick days in a year or two. I'm catching up on a lot of sleep.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Will do, we're still in the 'feeler' process.' We have somewhere between 9 and 11 interested, but a couple of them fall into the currently injured bucket and a couple of others fall into the not sure if they will be in training shape yet bucket while a couple of others may run into 'who will watch our kids' issues. Re-visiting in March to see what we're looking at.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Unrelated, trying to get the right attire for Sunday's race, the rule is dress like it's 20 degrees warmer, right? does that take into account the wind chill?
I want to wear as little as possible, but there's a limit. Currently I'm thinking two pairs of socks, shorts (no tights), gloves, winter hat, and am waffling between short and long sleeves.
I want to wear as little as possible, but there's a limit. Currently I'm thinking two pairs of socks, shorts (no tights), gloves, winter hat, and am waffling between short and long sleeves.
FUBAR
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I would take in to account wind chill. Did a trail race a few weeks ago. Temp was maybe upper 30s with wind. When I am in the trees, I like to go warmer and have stuff I can take off AND put back on. I did double tech shirts, long sleeve over short sleeve with a hat and gloves. Hat came off for a few, but everything else stayed on. I have one pair of running shorts with pockets that I use for races like this where I can keep a hat and gloves and put them back on if needed. If you think the wind chills may dip enough to impact breathing, tuck a bandana (or cut off the neck of a turtle neck) and keep it in a pocket. I did a turkey trot in '05 where wind chills were sun zero at the end and I had the turtle neck over my nose and mouth.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not sure where it is, but I have a balaclava somewhere. That may be the way to go instead of a winter hat. Combine that with a long sleeve tech and a short sleeve, sounds like the best way to go. The shorts I'm wearing will have pockets for my gloves if it gets too warm, use those often in cold weather running. The race is in a park, so it may be blocked some by the trees, but it's on the other side of the city and I've never been there before. It's mostly trail, but is it a former forest? Not so sure. If it isn't with the second half of the race into the wind the balaclava may turn into a must. Good tip.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Ahh yes, one of my favorite topics - Metabolic Efficiency Training (MET). The basic idea is that we all burn a mixture of carbs and fat for energy at any effort level, but the ratio is tilted primarily toward fat at lower intensities and then moves to rely more on carbs as intensity increases. Each of us has a Crossover Point at which we move from burning more fat to burning more carbs, usually somewhere around the 65% of max intensity, but this varies by individual. As BnB mentioned, aerobic training pushes that Crossover Point out to higher intensities - allowing you to rely on fat at those higher intensities, and do so efficiently.
True MET combines both looking at your diet (reducing carbs is oversimplifying things a little, but is the basic concept) with training at aerobic levels. This is why for pretty much all of my aerobic training runs up to two hours I only have coffee with a little coconut milk beforehand, and take in only water during the run.
As for your specific question, FUBAR - yes, taking in carbohydrates during aerobic training will impact the effectiveness of this. Carb consumption, especially simple carbs like the maltodextrin/fructose mix in most gels, triggers an insulin response that alerts the body that carbs are plentiful and should be relied upon for fuel. The worst thing you could do when attempting to rely on fat oxidation for energy would be to follow the gel manufacturers' recommendation and take one 15 minutes before an aerobic run. This insulin response is blunted a bit during exercise but it's still there, so if you really want to train this way I'd avoid gels unless you are going longer than about two hours. Most people have about 1800-2000 calories worth of liver/muscle glycogen and blood glucose on board, which is plenty for a two hour aerobic run.
I'm no nutritionist, but that's my understanding anyway. If you really want to geek out on this stuff, you can find Bob Seebohar's Metabolic Efficiency Training: Teaching the Body to Burn More Fat available for download as an ebook pretty cheaply. This is a good podcast on the topic from TrailRunnerNation as well.
Not sure there is a cheap and effective way. You can do what I've done so far and just focus on staying aerobic using whatever formula you rely upon to define that, others here are much more knowledgeable than I on that. Or you can go get the test done. I'm planning on doing that in the next month or so, actually with the guy on the podcast linked above as his lab is nearby.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
"In the future, I think I will do my LSD in the woods"
I went 2 hours with the goal of keeping my heart rate under 142 (<75% mHR)
Honestly, it was one of the more challenging training runs I've done. The first 5 miles felt uncomfortably slow, it got better but still had to force myself to keep a slow enough pace to keep my heartrate under 142. (FWIW, the total average was 140) I decided the only two fields I would display would be heartrate and time, as if I were to look at my pace I'd want to change the plan. I don't like running this slow, but will try to keep in mind that it's not the speed of the training that matters, it's meeting the purpose of the session.
Still, 10:06 pace for 12..5 miles is the slowest I've done, perhaps ever.
I went 2 hours with the goal of keeping my heart rate under 142 (<75% mHR)
Honestly, it was one of the more challenging training runs I've done. The first 5 miles felt uncomfortably slow, it got better but still had to force myself to keep a slow enough pace to keep my heartrate under 142. (FWIW, the total average was 140) I decided the only two fields I would display would be heartrate and time, as if I were to look at my pace I'd want to change the plan. I don't like running this slow, but will try to keep in mind that it's not the speed of the training that matters, it's meeting the purpose of the session.
Still, 10:06 pace for 12..5 miles is the slowest I've done, perhaps ever.
Brony
Footballguy
After 20 year hiatus of running, I'm back. First thing first, I of course got the 13.1 and 26.2 oval stickers for my car so I could show the rest of the world that I run.
I had x-ray and MRI done on my leg a month ago to make sure that the running-ending injury that I had 20 years ago wasn't something bad. Turns out the MRI looks good and as long as I can endure the pain in my calf that comes with running, I'm going to stay at it. Goals are simply to run long enough that running becomes fun like it used to. I don't track splits, HR, or times, I just run for as long as my body allows. I'm up to 4 miles a day but it's still a grind. Hope to win a 5K in the spring.
I have ear-bud headphones that generally are awesome for everything I do, but running is turning out to be challenging. Any have suggestions? Must be <$25 and I don't care about sound quality so long as they are comfortable and don't fall out. I recently picked up the Sandisk Sansa clip since my iPod doesn't like freezing weather. The sansa is a huge improvement over the Sony Walkman cassette I used last time I ran.
I had x-ray and MRI done on my leg a month ago to make sure that the running-ending injury that I had 20 years ago wasn't something bad. Turns out the MRI looks good and as long as I can endure the pain in my calf that comes with running, I'm going to stay at it. Goals are simply to run long enough that running becomes fun like it used to. I don't track splits, HR, or times, I just run for as long as my body allows. I'm up to 4 miles a day but it's still a grind. Hope to win a 5K in the spring.
I have ear-bud headphones that generally are awesome for everything I do, but running is turning out to be challenging. Any have suggestions? Must be <$25 and I don't care about sound quality so long as they are comfortable and don't fall out. I recently picked up the Sandisk Sansa clip since my iPod doesn't like freezing weather. The sansa is a huge improvement over the Sony Walkman cassette I used last time I ran.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2. I like this article. I am hesitant to take his advice about doing all my cardio work below 143 for the next few weeks. But as this is the off season, maybe it could work?
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Brony - do you wear compression socks? Those could be a huge benefit for the calf soreness.
FUBAR - I've read that article by Mark Allen before, and while the training is frustrating in its painfully slow pace, I believe in what he says. The offseason is definitely the time for that. Mix in strength training, and it sets the right base to gear things up in the spring.
FUBAR - I've read that article by Mark Allen before, and while the training is frustrating in its painfully slow pace, I believe in what he says. The offseason is definitely the time for that. Mix in strength training, and it sets the right base to gear things up in the spring.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Only two slight concerns
1. I'm not giving up my swimming, but can go longer and not sprint for a while.
2. Trail marathon in March. I can do this for now, then add some other training in January-February.
Ned
Footballguy
I'll read the whole thing later, but I generally hate the one size fits all HR calculations. If you have an unusually high or low mHR, these calcs are junk.
Ned
Footballguy
First off. AWESOME! Second - how hard was the trail? I wouldn't get too hung up on pace when you're on the trails. It's always going to be slower than the road plus the GPS isn't all that reliable. You probably ran further than 12.5.
mr. furley
Footballguy
this thread has taken a seriously advanced leap 
still alive, still plugging away. hit the road before sunup for a solo 10k @ 8:53 pace. been hovering around the 8:50 mark for about a month now. feels good, man.
good racing everybody!
still alive, still plugging away. hit the road before sunup for a solo 10k @ 8:53 pace.
been hovering around the 8:50 mark for about a month now. feels good, man.good racing everybody!
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Brony
Footballguy
I will check these out. Since I've had this injury for 20 years including 1.5 years of physical therapy, I'd be surprised if socks help it, but I'm not above trying something new.
beer 302
Footballguy
Brony, welcome to the insanity. Give some detail on the injury and the hiatus, obviously there is a back story and we like to get all up in your #### so fill us in. Ned hates you already because of the HR comment, just know that in advance 
Had a good day today, got up stupid early and did 9 on the roads then met up with the trail crew and did 6 with them. I'm whooped now but nothing hurts so much I can't move which is encouraging. Finished everything quicker than my target pace for the 50k, felt pretty good about that.
Had a good day today, got up stupid early and did 9 on the roads then met up with the trail crew and did 6 with them. I'm whooped now but nothing hurts so much I can't move which is encouraging. Finished everything quicker than my target pace for the 50k, felt pretty good about that.
beer 302
Footballguy
http://www.irunfar.com/2013/11/2013-jfk-50-mile-results.html
Pretty cool, the woman that placed 10th is a local who will be running the ultra I'm signed up for.
Pretty cool, the woman that placed 10th is a local who will be running the ultra I'm signed up for.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
The men's winner was a total unknown. Went toe-to-toe with Rob Krar, who going into this was one of the favorites for Ultrarunner of the Year (Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim FKT, 2nd at WS100, won UROC 100K), but who ended up dropping.
My favorite result was Mike Wardian's 3rd place finish in 5:55. This comes on the heels of winning the San Antonio RnR marathon last Saturday morning (2:31)....then flying to Vegas to try and win that marathon in the evening. He ended up 10th in 2:57 (had stomach issues and had to stop to use the commode twice, and still busted out a sub-3:00!), but the dude's ability to pound out races is ridiculous.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Had a good 14 miler today with over 2000' of vert, running some of my favorite trails out in Pt. Reyes that go out to and along the ocean. I stopped a bunch to take pics and take in the view, and still managed an 11:45 pace with 145 avg HR (high end of my unscientific aerobic zone) - which I'm pretty happy with considering the up and down. All in all, a good run for me.
First view of the Pacific around mile 5
This view inspires
Hammering down to the water just after mile 8
First view of the Pacific around mile 5
This view inspires
Hammering down to the water just after mile 8
Brony
Footballguy
Thanks GB beerNothing too exciting to report. I used to run CC and track in high school and then on/off in college. After college, got back into running and had a great year just running my ### off after work doing 5 to 8 mile loops solely for the joy of running. I tried my hand at half marathon, 4 mile, and 5k races. My last race, I won, but my calf/ hammy was bothering me, so the instinct was to stretch it a lot and I wound up doing something(?) to the calf that messed it up bad as I stretched it. I stopped running, saw a sports doc and did PT for 18 months. It never really got better and as long as I didn't run it was all good. In my twenties, I didn't want to do damage that would hurt me the rest of my days so I quit running. Now at 43, I'm a little more willing to take some chances. I'd love to meet a running doctor who could tell me what my injury is, but until then, I have a very good handle on the pain, causes and effects.Brony, welcome to the insanity. Give some detail on the injury and the hiatus, obviously there is a back story and we like to get all up in your #### so fill us in. Ned hates you already because of the HR comment, just know that in advance
Had a good day today, got up stupid early and did 9 on the roads then met up with the trail crew and did 6 with them. I'm whooped now but nothing hurts so much I can't move which is encouraging. Finished everything quicker than my target pace for the 50k, felt pretty good about that.
Anyway, glad to be amongst other running nuts. I'm not the kind to be focused on the numbers of running or any science kind of things. Running is my escape from those things. All I really want is to go for a night time loop while listening to AC DC back in black at deafening volumes while cranking out 6 minute-ish miles for the duration of the album. If I can do that, the rest is gravy.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Odd last week or so of training.
Knees were giving me some issues (having them looked at this next week).
Took a couple extra rest days this week adn today they felt fine during my run and mostly after as well.
Left ankle is still quite sore here and there...especially up hill parts of any run.
Limping in to this half in 2 weeks. If I were not there really to pace my niece in her first...Id likely withdraw.
Knees were giving me some issues (having them looked at this next week).
Took a couple extra rest days this week adn today they felt fine during my run and mostly after as well.
Left ankle is still quite sore here and there...especially up hill parts of any run.
Limping in to this half in 2 weeks. If I were not there really to pace my niece in her first...Id likely withdraw.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Oh yeah... What distance? What kind of time won you a race?Thanks GB beerNothing too exciting to report. I used to run CC and track in high school and then on/off in college. After college, got back into running and had a great year just running my ### off after work doing 5 to 8 mile loops solely for the joy of running. I tried my hand at half marathon, 4 mile, and 5k races. My last race, I won, but my calf/ hammy was bothering me, so the instinct was to stretch it a lot and I wound up doing something(?) to the calf that messed it up bad as I stretched it. I stopped running, saw a sports doc and did PT for 18 months. It never really got better and as long as I didn't run it was all good. In my twenties, I didn't want to do damage that would hurt me the rest of my days so I quit running. Now at 43, I'm a little more willing to take some chances. I'd love to meet a running doctor who could tell me what my injury is, but until then, I have a very good handle on the pain, causes and effects.Brony, welcome to the insanity. Give some detail on the injury and the hiatus, obviously there is a back story and we like to get all up in your #### so fill us in. Ned hates you already because of the HR comment, just know that in advance
Had a good day today, got up stupid early and did 9 on the roads then met up with the trail crew and did 6 with them. I'm whooped now but nothing hurts so much I can't move which is encouraging. Finished everything quicker than my target pace for the 50k, felt pretty good about that.
Anyway, glad to be amongst other running nuts. I'm not the kind to be focused on the numbers of running or any science kind of things. Running is my escape from those things. All I really want is to go for a night time loop while listening to AC DC back in black at deafening volumes while cranking out 6 minute-ish miles for the duration of the album. If I can do that, the rest is gravy.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
5.5 miles this morning - my longest run since September! Icing the achilles now as it has acted up a bit this week (after a rest day so I'm not sure what's up with that) but it feels pretty good today.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
We skipped church today (youth Sunday -- that service always sucks), so I did 10 miles with my wife. The first three sucked pretty hard, as it was 9 degrees and we were running directly into an 18 mph wind, but the rest was fine. The final three with the tailwind were like being an a conveyor belt.
I'll do an easy run tomorrow, and then probably take Tuesday and Wednesday off. 5K on Thursday.
I'll do an easy run tomorrow, and then probably take Tuesday and Wednesday off. 5K on Thursday.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Our annual youth Sunday is often really nice. I skipped church as well due to lingering effects of the bad cold/body crash of the last few days (well, that's my excuse). I used the time for a good workout of 4 x 25 push-ups, sit-ups, lunges, squats, and '25-ups' (from the workout beer recently shared (link below)). I replaced some squats with kettle bell swings, substituting a 20-lb dumbell for the kettle bell. By the way, in doing the "ups," I noticed how natural it was to land on the balls of the feet. I did a couple with a heel strike, and it was flat-out jarring. No wonder the popular running shoes put so much padding at the heels.
http://hundredup.com/learn-georges-100-up-running-exercise/
And prosopis - :finger:! I've also been working through the 30 day plank challenge you posted on FB. I'm up to 120 seconds ..and feelin' it.
Brony - yikes! It sounds like the issue with your calf is more than just sore muscles. I wonder if something detached years ago and did not heal up correctly. The tightness of compression socks might help control the movement (and pain) while running ...I also wonder if wearing compression socks for extended periods of time shen not running would do any good. After this much time, though ..who knows. And that's an interesting approach to running you have! Whatever works to relieve the stress of the day, right?
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