tri-man 47
Footballguy
Ugh!
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Ran a 10k in June (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
worrierking
Footballguy
Here's another wish for the best, Grue. Keep all your options open.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Ran three miles in about an inch of snow last night and I swear it felt like I had just run a half marathon. Legs feel super weird. I am sure it has something to do with not being able to push off at all, but jesus.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Good luck to Worrierking and Steve and anyone else racing this weekend!
________________________
Interestingly, I noticed that the Chicago Marathon is moving to a hybrid lottery/qualification entry system (with charity entries too). I knew it was just a matter of time since it had been filling up quicker and quicker. Qualifying for men is a flat 3:15 - no different age brackets. They allow qualifying times from 2012 so I'm in if I decide to run it again. There is also a "legacy" entry if you've run it at least 5 of the last 10 years. I'd be in that way too since I've run exactly 5. I'm still debating if I want to run it this year. Marathon training is so grueling.
Annyong, you still thinking about running?
________________________
Interestingly, I noticed that the Chicago Marathon is moving to a hybrid lottery/qualification entry system (with charity entries too). I knew it was just a matter of time since it had been filling up quicker and quicker. Qualifying for men is a flat 3:15 - no different age brackets. They allow qualifying times from 2012 so I'm in if I decide to run it again. There is also a "legacy" entry if you've run it at least 5 of the last 10 years. I'd be in that way too since I've run exactly 5. I'm still debating if I want to run it this year. Marathon training is so grueling.
Annyong, you still thinking about running?
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Ned
Footballguy
I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I don't mind the training grind (I actually really like it), but I'm growing to despise how much racing the marathon takes out of me. Between the taper and the recovery time, I'm losing a solid 2 months of time. Its a sacrifice I'm willing to endure for a bit to keep chasing Boston, but I'm getting tired of it.
koby925
Footballguy
Good luck Gru. I feel your pain - kinda literally. My hips constantly act up. Still dealing with the slight tear in the right one and lately the left one on the actual hip bone area by the love handle really hurts after I run anything faster than normal distance running pace. Getting old is fun.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's amazing how easy it is to run on dry surfaces with the temp's in the 40's/50's after running in extreme cold and snow for a while, isn't it? It all depends on the thickness and quantity of the snow, but a mile in snow is more like 2-4 on regular surface. To relate to our southerners that don't know what snow is - it's like running on the thicker part of the beach (not the harder surfaces closer to the water). The 4 mile run I did in mostly 6-12" snow a couple of weeks ago was probably the most challenging run I have ever done outside of my one marathon attempt ten years ago.
Unrelated, fingers cross, gru...
gruecd
Footballguy
The thing is that FAI is a relatively new diagnosis. What the MRI will hopefully be able to tell me is whether or not the "slight impingement" that they saw on the x-ray is what's actually causing my symptoms.
Like I said before, it would take an awful lot for me to have that surgery. Like a lot more pain than I'm having now or for someone to tell me conclusively that I'd need a premature hip replacement if it was left untreated. I'd be a lot more likely to just cut the mileage way back and find other forms of exercise that wouldn't stress the hip.
ETA: This is what ended pigskinliquors's running career. However, his impingement had caused significant cartilage damage and a relatively severe labral tear, and I believe his pain was much more significant than mine. The MRA will determine what damage mine has done, if any.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
I'm the other way - I don't like the training (too many long slow miles impeding other training, esp. speed work/track workouts), but I really enjoy the strategy of the race ...managing pace and HR over the course of many miles. But yeah, taper and recovery does consume a number of weeks.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
I've been sick for almost a week now and while it's annoying to be winded just from walking up stairs it's been a god send on my feet. I ran a hill trail for my first run in a week and while my time sucked and my lungs burned the rest of my body was and is fine. I'm hoping this crap runs its course so I can get back to preparing for my April half marathon.
Thanks Juxt! Also, for anyone up early on Sunday and wants to track/watch the race. I'll be racing with bib #21003.
Here is the site where you may be able to catch a glimpse of me as I may possibly be Sanding the first few miles with some of the top American marathoners. http://www.chevronhoustonmarathon.com/Races/index.cfm (I'll be the Asian dude with little/no hair racing in a blue Brooks singlet/shorts)
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I'm probably somewhere between you two. I enjoy the training most of the time but really hate the taper period. I also like planning and strategizing during the race but always seem to hit an "uh-oh" moment somewhere between mile 18 and 24.
I will say though, the more of these you run the quicker you tend to recover. My first one knocked me out for over a month, and the 2nd one for about 2 weeks (although it was a month or so before I felt "normal" on a run), then up until my last one I have been able to bounce back and do workouts within a week or two of all the other ones. The one thing with the marathon is that if you head into the race with anything more than a minor injury it'll find your weak point in the race and break you into a million little pieces (and recovery time afterwards will usually be 3-5 times as long depending on how smart you were about it after things start to go badly).
beer 302
Footballguy
That may have been where I picked it up. For some reason I thought there was a potential for cutting off blood to the area by pinching an artery/something from the impingement thus killing the bone area and causing the need for a hip replacement. Reading a little about hip impingement, doesn't seem to be the case. Not sure what I'm thinking about but good luck with it no matter how it comes out.Good luck Steve & Worrierking! For some reason I don't associate this time of year with much racing. Crush it!The thing is that FAI is a relatively new diagnosis. What the MRI will hopefully be able to tell me is whether or not the "slight impingement" that they saw on the x-ray is what's actually causing my symptoms.Like I said before, it would take an awful lot for me to have that surgery. Like a lot more pain than I'm having now or for someone to tell me conclusively that I'd need a premature hip replacement if it was left untreated. I'd be a lot more likely to just cut the mileage way back and find other forms of exercise that wouldn't stress the hip.
ETA: This is what ended pigskinliquors's running career. However, his impingement had caused significant cartilage damage and a relatively severe labral tear, and I believe his pain was much more significant than mine. The MRA will determine what damage mine has done, if any.
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I want to run one this year, just haven't decided which one. Havent really put much thought into it actually.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Well, the Chicago Marathon is one of the best marathons in the world (if not THE best) so that's a good one for your first.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
...or much smaller, less costly, and super-easy logistics (including late sign-up) is the Prairie State Marathon around the same time!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
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Do i just enter the lottery when that opens and cross my fingers?It's his first marathon! Save the frugality and easy logistics for 5Ks!
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm treating my march marathon as training, may marathon as an A race, June 70.3 as training.
FUBAR
Footballguy
That's why I'm looking forward to my may Marathon. I'll walk to my office (1/4 mile away from the finish) afterwards and nap.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yes, unless you want to look into the charity entries. They used to never have a lottery and it would take awhile before 45,000 signed up. I can't imagine the demand will be that large. Odds of getting in should be high.Do i just enter the lottery when that opens and cross my fingers?It's his first marathon! Save the frugality and easy logistics for 5Ks!
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Back from a week of Sales Kickoff in Atlanta and feeling all torn up from being out late night three nights in a row. I feel like Roger Murtaugh. I did get one short run in on Tuesday night, but that was it.
Soooooo.....I'm really looking forward to that 25K tomorrow! I have a feeling it's gonna feel like I'm running a 50. Should be a beautiful day though, sunny and high of 70, and the race starts and ends at the beach - tough to beat that. This is really just a supported training run, so I'm not stressing it at all - just hope I feel ok and have a good couple of hours on the trails.
Good luck to Steve and worrieking!
And hoping for good news for you, Grue.
Soooooo.....I'm really looking forward to that 25K tomorrow! I have a feeling it's gonna feel like I'm running a 50. Should be a beautiful day though, sunny and high of 70, and the race starts and ends at the beach - tough to beat that. This is really just a supported training run, so I'm not stressing it at all - just hope I feel ok and have a good couple of hours on the trails.
Good luck to Steve and worrieking!
And hoping for good news for you, Grue.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I have a question, mainly from reading a lot of posts about running slow. Most of the time, when I run, I just go and run. This includes my shorter runs during the week and my longer runs. I'm not at the stage where I would consider myself a technical runner: I just put on my shoes and run at a comfortable pace.
At this point, per my previous posts, I'm looking to push the envelope a bit to see how far I can do in terms of increasing my speed and thus reducing my time for my half coming up in April.
So talk to me about running slower, and what benefit does it give me long term.
At this point, per my previous posts, I'm looking to push the envelope a bit to see how far I can do in terms of increasing my speed and thus reducing my time for my half coming up in April.
So talk to me about running slower, and what benefit does it give me long term.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Chief, there are a lot of articles out there that will explain it better than I can, but I've been doing it the past couple months for a few reasons.
First, it keeps you disciplined. Instead of thinking you have to run a certain pace and pushing too hard on easy days, it gives you an objective measure to stay on track.
Injury prevention. I've ramped up my mileage over the past couple months with no injuries.
It makes sense. The yellow book and other articles are worth reading here, but assuming Dr. Mafetone is right on the science and how our bodies body burns fat and can learn to burn more fat instead off carbs, his program is logical.
It sucks at first. Running 9:30s when 7:30 feels natural was hard and frustrating. But I'm around or below 8:30 now on flat ground. Hills still kind of suck, walking when you don't feel you have to is frustrating. But I'm sticking with it.
First, it keeps you disciplined. Instead of thinking you have to run a certain pace and pushing too hard on easy days, it gives you an objective measure to stay on track.
Injury prevention. I've ramped up my mileage over the past couple months with no injuries.
It makes sense. The yellow book and other articles are worth reading here, but assuming Dr. Mafetone is right on the science and how our bodies body burns fat and can learn to burn more fat instead off carbs, his program is logical.
It sucks at first. Running 9:30s when 7:30 feels natural was hard and frustrating. But I'm around or below 8:30 now on flat ground. Hills still kind of suck, walking when you don't feel you have to is frustrating. But I'm sticking with it.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Track guys, I need some advice. A combo of his GF breaking up with him (via text on Xmas, pure evil) and GTA V, has my son WAY behind where he was before last track season and he was no where near ready then. I've resorted to the parental no-no of bribery to kick start him and he has agreed. The agreement is to do something 4 days a week for the next two weeks, going to 5 days a week there after. The HUGE indoor invitational that kicks off the season is just over two months away on 3/21, so I need an intense 60 day plan of sorts for him. FWIW, he agrees he is behind and that he needs his ### kicked, so this is not me forcing him, he wants to be motivated. For the next two weeks, I'm thinking three running days and a core day, with one of the running days being shorter and with core after. He has, maybe, ran 6 times since XC and done core 10-12, so he needs to start slow IMO. Last year, his off season consisted more of sprints in the HS hallways. Based on XC, I think he may be best suited for the 800 vs the 400 this season and, I think he could be part of a very good (and young) 4X800 relay team. Outdoor conditions suck for distance running right now, so what types of things should he be doing? His coach is very successful, but also very disorganized. The girls track team already has the captains doing semi-scheduled workouts, but the boys have nothing yet.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Today's 15.3 miles,
1 Mile warm up, 8:40 137 bpm
Mile 2-12 146-148 bpm
Miles 2-4 were slightly downhill (total loss of 80'), ranged 7:58-8:17
Miles 5-12 varied, 8:42-8:58 except mile 10 which was 9:16 (uphill and I was messing with my mp3 player)
Miles 13 and 14 brought the hr up to the 160s @ 7:18 and 6:53, last 1.3 cool down.
Miles 13 and 14 felt awesome. Pushing but good.
1 Mile warm up, 8:40 137 bpm
Mile 2-12 146-148 bpm
Miles 2-4 were slightly downhill (total loss of 80'), ranged 7:58-8:17
Miles 5-12 varied, 8:42-8:58 except mile 10 which was 9:16 (uphill and I was messing with my mp3 player)
Miles 13 and 14 brought the hr up to the 160s @ 7:18 and 6:53, last 1.3 cool down.
Miles 13 and 14 felt awesome. Pushing but good.
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A long break (couple of months?) after XC is not such a bad thing, especially at that age. Also, 60 days is plenty of time to get in shape. You probably want him doing mostly easy effort aerobic stuff to build a base for the upcoming season. By aerobic activity it should preferably be easy running but elliptical / bike / swimming works as well. You may also suggest that he does some faster strides/pickups at the end, probably something like 4-8x15-20s @ 800-mile race effort with full recovery in between, this is just to get his legs used to turnovers.
You're in the Maryland area right? Look around on here (http://pvtc.org/) and there may be some all-comer meets on the weekends that you could suggest he do to see where he is fitness-wise? (Or just take him to a cleared outdoor track and time him).
I gotta say though, at that age the motivation mostly has to come from within. I have sat on my ### for more than my share of winter/summer breaks and while I regret it now, I also learned that you can get in shape pretty fast at that age. With that said, whatever you can get him to do now will help that much more as long as you don't have him doing too much speed in the next month or so.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Awesome, I have been begging him to join me in the pool, hearing it from someone else just might help. We are in Michigan and there are a ton of indoor meet opportunities, but he feels like he needs to be at his best. I've been explaining that its more about just having the chance to race. THANKS!!!
ChiefD
Footballguy
Oops, sorry about that, I got you mixed up with the other guy also with a fast HS son.
I do like the fact that you mentioned that he needs to be at his best (shows that he has a certain amount of competitiveness/care about the sport). I was that way too and rarely ran races during my off season for that reason. You could use that as a source of motivation too though, talk/bribe (since you're already doing it
) him into running one and feed him a line about it just being a test to see where he is currently. Once he gets beat by people he doesn't feel he should listen to it'll most likely light a fire under him.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Goal is the BPM. Pace is an indication of fitness, a gauge of how well MAF has helped and can be a test of when to adjust your training (though this seems a point of debate), but the pace can vary depending on conditions.
ETA: I don't look at pace while running. my garmin screen shows only time and heart rate. of course, lap time does come up at each mile, but even when I do see it it's merely a point of interest.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Annyong - that 5/10 HM is a possibility, but I won't know for sure until early spring. I'll be in eastern Michigan the weekend after for a trail HM with 2Young and some other great guys.
FUBAR and 2Young - I've always agreed with the logic of 'race your way into shape.' So FUBAR, I get the idea of you using marathons as training for your events later in the year. Those races effectively become breakthrough workouts, and we should be doing a couple of those per week anyway. 2Young, so that's the same argument for Ry ...use some early races as part of the training. Something else he could do, given the bad winter conditions, is to do the 'ups' workout (high knee lifts) ...both the standing lift and the skipping step. I've got some old 2-lb ankle weights I've been using for those workouts. I've done some mornings with 300 reps (L+R=1 rep), and with those weights, I feel it. A variation I have added, based on a Runners World link someone posted, is to also rotate the knee out and around to the front, which opens up the hip. Heck, let him go really old school and do some jump rope on the back porch.
Chief - as gets posted here regularly, the idea is to run 90% of your runs slower, and 10% faster. Avoid that middle ground, since it doesn't really do anything specific. Target one or two runs per week for intense effort - intervals at the track, hill work, hard tempo, etc. Use the other runs for recovery, base building, and HR training (building aerobic capacity).
--
12 miles for me this a.m. on a chilly 15 degree day. Prince Myskin and all - Monday's the day! My final defense of the doctoral dissertation.
FUBAR and 2Young - I've always agreed with the logic of 'race your way into shape.' So FUBAR, I get the idea of you using marathons as training for your events later in the year. Those races effectively become breakthrough workouts, and we should be doing a couple of those per week anyway. 2Young, so that's the same argument for Ry ...use some early races as part of the training. Something else he could do, given the bad winter conditions, is to do the 'ups' workout (high knee lifts) ...both the standing lift and the skipping step. I've got some old 2-lb ankle weights I've been using for those workouts. I've done some mornings with 300 reps (L+R=1 rep), and with those weights, I feel it. A variation I have added, based on a Runners World link someone posted, is to also rotate the knee out and around to the front, which opens up the hip. Heck, let him go really old school and do some jump rope on the back porch.
Chief - as gets posted here regularly, the idea is to run 90% of your runs slower, and 10% faster. Avoid that middle ground, since it doesn't really do anything specific. Target one or two runs per week for intense effort - intervals at the track, hill work, hard tempo, etc. Use the other runs for recovery, base building, and HR training (building aerobic capacity).
--
12 miles for me this a.m. on a chilly 15 degree day. Prince Myskin and all - Monday's the day! My final defense of the doctoral dissertation.
To avoid the tedium of the treadmill I usually break the run into segments and adjust the speed every .10/.25/.5 mile. I find this distracting enough to make me not want to pour hand sanitizer down my peehole.
Anyways, on the way to the gym I remembered you guys telling me to make every run purposeful. So instead of just building a base and logging miles like I have been doing all month, I decided to try my first ever "tempo run". Tell me if I did this right
1 mile at 10 min pace
.5 mile at 7:30 min pace
.5 mile at 10 min pace
.5 mile at 7:30 min pace
.5 mile at 10 min pace
.25 mile at 7:30 min pace
.25 mile at 7 min pace
Anyways, on the way to the gym I remembered you guys telling me to make every run purposeful. So instead of just building a base and logging miles like I have been doing all month, I decided to try my first ever "tempo run". Tell me if I did this right
1 mile at 10 min pace
.5 mile at 7:30 min pace
.5 mile at 10 min pace
.5 mile at 7:30 min pace
.5 mile at 10 min pace
.25 mile at 7:30 min pace
.25 mile at 7 min pace
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ChiefD
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
FUBAR, you're correct, what I said is not the MAF method. I would say the key distinction is whether the individual is in base building mode (where the MAF method of consistently slow, low-HR running is followed) or progressing on to race training. So for any of us, we need to be clear on where we stand in our training cycle. Some of the crowd is already in, or approaching, race season. I think it's fair to say that we should all consider blocking out 2-3 months of off-season time to build our aerobic base. Your suggestions to Chief were from the base-building perspective; I was thinking more of gearing up for a race ..so in effect we were commenting on different stages of training. Good that you pointed that out.
Want to highlight that section for emphasis. The moment this clicked for me was the moment my post-college running performances started to take off. It sounds unfair and counter-intuitive at first, but you really don't get what you point into it. Running harder won't necessarily make you faster in the long run if you don't balance your training correctly. If you go hard all the time your body won't be able to recover and it'll just lead to breakdown/injury. The key is to run hard at the right intensities every 3-4 days and make sure you recover sufficiently from them.
Also, Tri, that sounds like a terribly fun run today. Good luck on Monday!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
90% of his runs slower but 1 to 2 faster runs a week? Wouldn't that mean he'd have to average 15 runs a week? You mean 90% of miles, right?
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Steep Ravine 25K Report
Since this race was 35 miles shorter than each of my last two races, I'll try and keep the report proportionally shorter as w.........
Ok, so maybe not proportionally shorter.
Woke up still hurting a bit from the week and a fitful night of sleep. Funny how even a shorter, non-A race keeps me from getting solid rest. But I was out at the race start in Stinson Beach 45 minutes early, and other than another Garmin issue right before a race start for the second time in a row (it just wouldn't move past the welcome screen, and I finally had to hard reset) the morning was smooth. Things started at 8:00 AM sharp and after a quick road section up from the beach parking lot it was onto single track and up the hill we go. I paused at the first opening up of the trail and looked back at the ocean to soak in the view for a second, and then it was up and up the switchbacks. As usual, I passed several people and was rarely passed while we power hiked the hills. Once we got up a ways we entered the redwoods, a relentless series of wood and stone steps, and of course the aforementioned ladder. We finally finished that 3 mile, 1500' climb and started down. 15:04-17:04 miles on the way up.
We hit the first aid station, and then onto an exposed ridge where it was really windy - probably 20-25 mph winds. The good news was that it was a series of switchbacks, so it'd be a headwind for a couple of minutes, then a tail wind for a bit, so it wasn't too bad. It was actually a little refreshing as it was warm today - probably pushing 75 by the time I was done. As we were coming down hill I noticed that while I wasn't wearing my HRM, I could tell my effort level was much higher than it should have been - probably the result of the week I've had. Then at about mile 6 I caught a toe on a rock and went down hard - took three little chunks out of my hand and scraped up my knee. I took inventory, realized I was alright and powered on. After mile 7 we hit the bottom and a mile and a half of pretty much flat stuff - and again my HR wouldn't slow down. It didn't matter how slow I went, I was sucking wind. I would've been freaked if this was a long race, but I kept telling myself this was only 15 miles and I could get through it even with my struggles. I was hitting 8:48-10:45 miles in this stretch.
Then it was back up the climb again, and passing those who had passed me on the flats. Nothing much else to report here other than it was tough - 1400' over 2+ miles. 13:04-16:06 miles on the way back up.
Then it was back down again, a knee-hammering descent down those same stairs that we had climbed up earlier in the day. I managed to keep it under 12:00 miles carefully working down all those steps on the way down, and crossed the finish line in 3:15:47 - ten minutes faster than when I did this race back in the summer of 2012. All in all, a pretty damned fine day out on the trails of Mt. Tam.
Since this race was 35 miles shorter than each of my last two races, I'll try and keep the report proportionally shorter as w.........
Ok, so maybe not proportionally shorter.
Woke up still hurting a bit from the week and a fitful night of sleep. Funny how even a shorter, non-A race keeps me from getting solid rest. But I was out at the race start in Stinson Beach 45 minutes early, and other than another Garmin issue right before a race start for the second time in a row (it just wouldn't move past the welcome screen, and I finally had to hard reset) the morning was smooth. Things started at 8:00 AM sharp and after a quick road section up from the beach parking lot it was onto single track and up the hill we go. I paused at the first opening up of the trail and looked back at the ocean to soak in the view for a second, and then it was up and up the switchbacks. As usual, I passed several people and was rarely passed while we power hiked the hills. Once we got up a ways we entered the redwoods, a relentless series of wood and stone steps, and of course the aforementioned ladder. We finally finished that 3 mile, 1500' climb and started down. 15:04-17:04 miles on the way up.
We hit the first aid station, and then onto an exposed ridge where it was really windy - probably 20-25 mph winds. The good news was that it was a series of switchbacks, so it'd be a headwind for a couple of minutes, then a tail wind for a bit, so it wasn't too bad. It was actually a little refreshing as it was warm today - probably pushing 75 by the time I was done. As we were coming down hill I noticed that while I wasn't wearing my HRM, I could tell my effort level was much higher than it should have been - probably the result of the week I've had. Then at about mile 6 I caught a toe on a rock and went down hard - took three little chunks out of my hand and scraped up my knee. I took inventory, realized I was alright and powered on. After mile 7 we hit the bottom and a mile and a half of pretty much flat stuff - and again my HR wouldn't slow down. It didn't matter how slow I went, I was sucking wind. I would've been freaked if this was a long race, but I kept telling myself this was only 15 miles and I could get through it even with my struggles. I was hitting 8:48-10:45 miles in this stretch.
Then it was back up the climb again, and passing those who had passed me on the flats. Nothing much else to report here other than it was tough - 1400' over 2+ miles. 13:04-16:06 miles on the way back up.
Then it was back down again, a knee-hammering descent down those same stairs that we had climbed up earlier in the day. I managed to keep it under 12:00 miles carefully working down all those steps on the way down, and crossed the finish line in 3:15:47 - ten minutes faster than when I did this race back in the summer of 2012. All in all, a pretty damned fine day out on the trails of Mt. Tam.
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