Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

[worrierking]

[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Overview - Definitely the hardest event I’ve ever attempted and my first DNF. We were allotted 24 hours to complete the 68 miles and the time cut offs ended up closing in on me and ending my event. The terrain was tough but the views were nice in the remote northern GA Mountains. RD was a great guy and the event was well supported with a few minor hiccups.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Friday Night - Made the 4 hour drive to arrive right in the middle of the 2 hour mandatory check in window. During the race meeting I found out that drop bags had to be turned in that evening in the next 15 minutes which sent me into a panic scramble. The race website almost touted a Friday Night BBQ dinner. When I asked about dinner I found out that was an oversight not removed from the website and I was a year late for dinner. I had planned on sleeping in my truck at the start line and hadn’t brought dinner. It was a 20 minute drive to town to find a Wendy’s for a salad. I ate and drove back and crashed in my truck some time around 11pm. At 2am the Wendy’s turned out to be a mistake as I was awaken with stomach pain and the need to trek a ¼ mile to the facilities. By the time I got back to my truck I had to turn around and visit the facilities again. Finally went back to sleep and awoke at 4:30 for the 5am start.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Start to Coosa - The first mile was crowded as we quickly transitioned to single track after a short stint on the road. The first mile had 350 ft of climbing and I managed a nice 12’43” start. The next 3 miles had 466 ft up and 843 ft down which I covered in about 39 min. I was feeling strong as we rolled into the first major climb. At mile 4 we were at 2100 ft elevation on our way up to 4300 ft at mile 7.25. This is the steepest terrain I’ve ever run/hiked and managed some outstanding mile times of 18’16” / 21’06” / 24’26” in the dark. I passed several people in the first mile and noticed a line of 30+ headlamps chasing me up the climb. I held off all but one or two runners during the climb and was relieved when the trail finally stopped going up. It was shortly after this that downhill technical running weakness was exposed. Over the next downhill mile at least 30 and probably closer to 40 runners passed me. I kept pulling off to the side of the trail to let people pass. It was like was a full cement truck on the expressway during rush hour. I hit the first aid station at mile 8 well ahead of my goal pace. I filled a single water bottle and was on my way as the sun peaked over the horizon in the distance. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Coosa to Mulky Gap – The next 5 miles were up and down alternating between 140 ft up to 450 ft up and right back down. It took me 93 minutes to cover this section. At an 18’40” pace I was still below my goal pace but was disappointed I wasn’t gaining time on the down hills. It seemed like the remaining half the field passed me and I was wondering if I had completed that first mega climb at the pointy end of the field. The coolest part about this section was as I traversed the mountain side hills, as I looked off to my left it was a 45 degree drop as far as I could see. May have been 500 feet down, could have easily been 1000+ feet to the bottom. Definitely makes you think about staying in control and not making any footing mistakes. One bottle turned out not to be enough so I was getting dehydrated and went to two bottles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Mulky Gap to Skeenah Gap – The climbs started to wear on my here. 8.5 miles that took me in excess of 3h 5m to complete. Here are some of the climbs; 700 ft in 9/10s mi, 200 ft in ¼ mi, 250 ft in ½ mi, 400 ft in 4/10s mi, 250 ft in 1/4 mi, and 400 ft in 1/2mi. That’s 2.8 miles between 15% and 20% grade. The down hills were equally as steep and the quads and knees didn’t like any of it. I posted some atrocious mile times of 27 min, 26 min, and 29 min which destroyed my cumulative average. Finished this section with a 750 ft descent over 9/10’s of a mile into the aid station. Worse part of this was that after you refueled, you had turn around and climb right back up. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Skeenah Gap to Point Bravo – 7.5 mile stretch here. Two bottles wasn’t enough for 3 hours as the day heated up and I had been in conservation mode. Spent a little over 5 minutes at the aid station sucking down as much liquid as possible. The next 1.4 miles covered 900 ft of vertical gain. After a ½ mile “flat” there was a 1/5 mile 300 ft gain section followed by a 700 ft plummet over the next mile. Mile times on the uphill were over 25 min/mi and I wasn’t gaining it back with 20 min pace on the down hills. It was here that I knew making the 24 hour finishing cutoff wasn’t very likely. Another short steep climb and then an 1100 free fall over 1.6 miles into Point Bravo. I did lose a little time helping a sick runner during this section. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Point Bravo to Sapling Gap – I reached Bravo (mile 28) at 10 hours into the event. Spent 10 minutes at this aid station getting a callus taped and getting who knows what from my drop bag. Ran the math…if I keep the same pace I’m looking at a time just north of 24 hours. Some said the course got easier from here so “there’s hope”. Left the aid station and had what seemed like a burst of energy at the time and began running. Knocked out two 15 minute miles on forest service road that I would have pegged at 12 min miles at the time. Back to single track, across an amazing swinging bridge, and then the next climb hits. 500 feet up over the next ½ mile. That took 18 minutes as I waved bye-bye to the recent time gains. It didn’t get any easier with an additional 700 ft of climbing over the next two miles. Somewhere in this section was an aid station. I remember being at mile 33 at roughly 12 hours and thinking I only needed to go double the distance and then do it faster…no problem :rolls eyes:.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Sapling Gap to Big Bald / Frick Creek – Signs of human life have been spotty. Going into Big Bald I get passed by two runners I saw over 10 miles ago. Getting passed was actually comforting. It’s been over 3.5 hours since I’ve seen another runner and thoughts of ending up in northern Alabama are creeping into my head. The sun is also becoming spotty as the mountain peaks in the middle of nowhere obscure the remaining rays. I and one of the passing runners have an impromptu math lesson and he pulls the plug at the next stop. I wasn’t as smart.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Big Bald / Frick Creek to Winding Stair – The aid station locations and numbers changed twice over the two days prior to the race. I take off from the aid station convinced I’ve just gone through Wind Stair and that my GPS data was off. Yippee…I’m actually 2.5 miles further than I thought. I knock out the next forest service road mile in 17 minutes and have my game face back on. It’s now dark and the head lamp is back on. It should be several miles of downhill forest service road to the next stop. About a mile later the road starts to level. No big deal, elevation profiles can hide these flats. A mile later the flat turns into an uphill and I realize that I have a two mile climb to Winding Stair and I’m not 2.5 miles ahead. I pull into Winding Stair (mile 43.5) at 16 hours an hour ahead of the posted cutoff. That’s 21.75 miles per 8 hours and I have about 25 miles to cover in 8 hours. That works out to a 19 min pace to finish. My last 3.5 miles took 90 minutes or a 26 min/mi pace. I have two options at this point;[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Bust my rear through the night to get to mile 61, miss the cutoff, have to find a ride back to the finish, hope to make the last shuttle from the finish to the start where my truck is. [/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]Kick back in a chair next to a campfire under a blanket and drink a beer.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Happy to report that I chose wisely and that was the best beer ever![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]On the ride back to the start we passed numerous people still on the course. Everyone single one of them was walking. I’m sure the sweeper/reaper picked off most of these individuals at the next two cut off points.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It’s over a week later and my quads still are sore. My feet survived well and I’ve started running again. This was a fun event and overall the race director did a good job staging the event other than a few minor complaints. The bottom line is that I bit off more than I could chew by signing up for this event. I’m just not technically proficient enough running steep downhill terrain to bank enough time to make up for the relentless climbing. I’ve hit the limit of my ability for my weight, age, and running background. I’m actually very happy with my uphill performance which was sufficient to have finished this event.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This was a training event for the upcoming Massenutten 100 event. Given the terrain at Mass100 I’m having serious concerns about toeing the start line. I have about 4 weeks to make a final decision and 8 weeks to gun time. I would need to maintain a 21 minute pace to complete Mass, something I was unable to do at the Ga Death Race.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]

Great report. I hope the beer tasted great. You earned it.

I have no concept for what you did.

 

[BassNBrew]

Insane. How many people started this race and how many finished? What was the average finishing time?

198 signed up. 160 and change started. 111 finished.

Top time 11h46m

Top ten 15h02m

19 hours represents the median time of the 160 starting

20 hours represents the median time of the 111 finishing

 

[BassNBrew]

beer - Did you ever hear any more from your female friends doing this event? I was planning on asking anyone from SC if they knew beer302.

 

[tri-man 47]

Thanks, BnB. I don't do downhills well, either. This city boy would get whupped both up and downhill on those sorts of courses.

 

[beer 302]

As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.

Georgia Death Race Report

Overview - Definitely the hardest event I’ve ever attempted and my first DNF. We were allotted 24 hours to complete the 68 miles and the time cut offs ended up closing in on me and ending my event. The terrain was tough but the views were nice in the remote northern GA Mountains. RD was a great guy and the event was well supported with a few minor hiccups.

Friday Night - Made the 4 hour drive to arrive right in the middle of the 2 hour mandatory check in window. During the race meeting I found out that drop bags had to be turned in that evening in the next 15 minutes which sent me into a panic scramble. The race website almost touted a Friday Night BBQ dinner. When I asked about dinner I found out that was an oversight not removed from the website and I was a year late for dinner. I had planned on sleeping in my truck at the start line and hadn’t brought dinner. It was a 20 minute drive to town to find a Wendy’s for a salad. I ate and drove back and crashed in my truck some time around 11pm. At 2am the Wendy’s turned out to be a mistake as I was awaken with stomach pain and the need to trek a ¼ mile to the facilities. By the time I got back to my truck I had to turn around and visit the facilities again. Finally went back to sleep and awoke at 4:30 for the 5am start.

Start to Coosa - The first mile was crowded as we quickly transitioned to single track after a short stint on the road. The first mile had 350 ft of climbing and I managed a nice 12’43” start. The next 3 miles had 466 ft up and 843 ft down which I covered in about 39 min. I was feeling strong as we rolled into the first major climb. At mile 4 we were at 2100 ft elevation on our way up to 4300 ft at mile 7.25. This is the steepest terrain I’ve ever run/hiked and managed some outstanding mile times of 18’16” / 21’06” / 24’26” in the dark. I passed several people in the first mile and noticed a line of 30+ headlamps chasing me up the climb. I held off all but one or two runners during the climb and was relieved when the trail finally stopped going up. It was shortly after this that downhill technical running weakness was exposed. Over the next downhill mile at least 30 and probably closer to 40 runners passed me. I kept pulling off to the side of the trail to let people pass. It was like was a full cement truck on the expressway during rush hour. I hit the first aid station at mile 8 well ahead of my goal pace. I filled a single water bottle and was on my way as the sun peaked over the horizon in the distance.

Coosa to Mulky Gap – The next 5 miles were up and down alternating between 140 ft up to 450 ft up and right back down. It took me 93 minutes to cover this section. At an 18’40” pace I was still below my goal pace but was disappointed I wasn’t gaining time on the down hills. It seemed like the remaining half the field passed me and I was wondering if I had completed that first mega climb at the pointy end of the field. The coolest part about this section was as I traversed the mountain side hills, as I looked off to my left it was a 45 degree drop as far as I could see. May have been 500 feet down, could have easily been 1000+ feet to the bottom. Definitely makes you think about staying in control and not making any footing mistakes. One bottle turned out not to be enough so I was getting dehydrated and went to two bottles.

Mulky Gap to Skeenah Gap – The climbs started to wear on my here. 8.5 miles that took me in excess of 3h 5m to complete. Here are some of the climbs; 700 ft in 9/10s mi, 200 ft in ¼ mi, 250 ft in ½ mi, 400 ft in 4/10s mi, 250 ft in 1/4 mi, and 400 ft in 1/2mi. That’s 2.8 miles between 15% and 20% grade. The down hills were equally as steep and the quads and knees didn’t like any of it. I posted some atrocious mile times of 27 min, 26 min, and 29 min which destroyed my cumulative average. Finished this section with a 750 ft descent over 9/10’s of a mile into the aid station. Worse part of this was that after you refueled, you had turn around and climb right back up.

Skeenah Gap to Point Bravo – 7.5 mile stretch here. Two bottles wasn’t enough for 3 hours as the day heated up and I had been in conservation mode. Spent a little over 5 minutes at the aid station sucking down as much liquid as possible. The next 1.4 miles covered 900 ft of vertical gain. After a ½ mile “flat” there was a 1/5 mile 300 ft gain section followed by a 700 ft plummet over the next mile. Mile times on the uphill were over 25 min/mi and I wasn’t gaining it back with 20 min pace on the down hills. It was here that I knew making the 24 hour finishing cutoff wasn’t very likely. Another short steep climb and then an 1100 free fall over 1.6 miles into Point Bravo. I did lose a little time helping a sick runner during this section.

Point Bravo to Sapling Gap – I reached Bravo (mile 28) at 10 hours into the event. Spent 10 minutes at this aid station getting a callus taped and getting who knows what from my drop bag. Ran the math…if I keep the same pace I’m looking at a time just north of 24 hours. Some said the course got easier from here so “there’s hope”. Left the aid station and had what seemed like a burst of energy at the time and began running. Knocked out two 15 minute miles on forest service road that I would have pegged at 12 min miles at the time. Back to single track, across an amazing swinging bridge, and then the next climb hits. 500 feet up over the next ½ mile. That took 18 minutes as I waved bye-bye to the recent time gains. It didn’t get any easier with an additional 700 ft of climbing over the next two miles. Somewhere in this section was an aid station. I remember being at mile 33 at roughly 12 hours and thinking I only needed to go double the distance and then do it faster…no problem :rolls eyes:.

Sapling Gap to Big Bald / Frick Creek – Signs of human life have been spotty. Going into Big Bald I get passed by two runners I saw over 10 miles ago. Getting passed was actually comforting. It’s been over 3.5 hours since I’ve seen another runner and thoughts of ending up in northern Alabama are creeping into my head. The sun is also becoming spotty as the mountain peaks in the middle of nowhere obscure the remaining rays. I and one of the passing runners have an impromptu math lesson and he pulls the plug at the next stop. I wasn’t as smart.

Big Bald / Frick Creek to Winding Stair – The aid station locations and numbers changed twice over the two days prior to the race. I take off from the aid station convinced I’ve just gone through Wind Stair and that my GPS data was off. Yippee…I’m actually 2.5 miles further than I thought. I knock out the next forest service road mile in 17 minutes and have my game face back on. It’s now dark and the head lamp is back on. It should be several miles of downhill forest service road to the next stop. About a mile later the road starts to level. No big deal, elevation profiles can hide these flats. A mile later the flat turns into an uphill and I realize that I have a two mile climb to Winding Stair and I’m not 2.5 miles ahead. I pull into Winding Stair (mile 43.5) at 16 hours an hour ahead of the posted cutoff. That’s 21.75 miles per 8 hours and I have about 25 miles to cover in 8 hours. That works out to a 19 min pace to finish. My last 3.5 miles took 90 minutes or a 26 min/mi pace. I have two options at this point;

• Bust my rear through the night to get to mile 61, miss the cutoff, have to find a ride back to the finish, hope to make the last shuttle from the finish to the start where my truck is.
• Kick back in a chair next to a campfire under a blanket and drink a beer.

Happy to report that I chose wisely and that was the best beer ever!On the ride back to the start we passed numerous people still on the course. Everyone single one of them was walking. I’m sure the sweeper/reaper picked off most of these individuals at the next two cut off points.

It’s over a week later and my quads still are sore. My feet survived well and I’ve started running again. This was a fun event and overall the race director did a good job staging the event other than a few minor complaints. The bottom line is that I bit off more than I could chew by signing up for this event. I’m just not technically proficient enough running steep downhill terrain to bank enough time to make up for the relentless climbing. I’ve hit the limit of my ability for my weight, age, and running background. I’m actually very happy with my uphill performance which was sufficient to have finished this event.

This was a training event for the upcoming Massenutten 100 event. Given the terrain at Mass100 I’m having serious concerns about toeing the start line. I have about 4 weeks to make a final decision and 8 weeks to gun time. I would need to maintain a 21 minute pace to complete Mass, something I was unable to do at the Ga Death Race.

Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.

I think it moved. I read this and thought man, I'd love to give that a shot, so much so I'm looking up the course to see if it's worth a trip to run some of the course. With the areas around you I'd think there is some good hill training, no? Probably nothing like that but you certainly don't live in the flatlands. Of course i can't imagine training for this thing either, between your report and those of the ladies I knew running it sounds like an absolute beast. If you happened to notice a short haired blond right around the aid station that you call it quits at named Katie, she threw in the towel around mile 45. Not sure what kind of time she had going.Results. I was following along an ultra runners feed on FB this weekend. She was helping crew for Jeff Dean who finished the Death Race 29th and then ran this 100 miler this weekend. Yea that's plain stupid

 

[beer 302]

beer - Did you ever hear any more from your female friends doing this event? I was planning on asking anyone from SC if they knew beer302.

They both DNF'd, one at 20 miles due to foot problems and one at 45 miles due to "I just didn't want to run one more ####### hill".

 

[FUBAR]

Bass - you're an inspiration.

Feeling great after last week's marathon but wanted to pull the reigns back a little, so I stole a workout from Ironman.com and modified it slightly. http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/news/articles/2014/03/my-favorite-workout-corbin-speedplay.aspx#axzz2wvIjHY8v

Warm up

-1 mile (or up to 10 minutes) easy jog into 1 mile (or 10 minutes) building effort to tempo

-5 minutes easy to get the heart rate (HR) back down 1 Mile Warm up

Main set

-3-5x through, with 2 minutes of active jogging recovery between sets:

-1 minute at sprint distance/5k pace: This is very fast and uncomfortable, but only lasts one minute. Stay quick on the feet and lean forward.

-2 minutes at Olympic distance/10k pace: This is still a fast pace and slightly uncomfortable. Just 2 minutes to hang on here!

-3 minutes at 70.3/half-marathon pace: Things start to settle in. Look to find rhythm and focus.

-4 minutes at 140.6/marathon pace: Heart rate should begin to settle and things become more comfortable. Grab a drink of water if you need.

Cool Down

-Finish with 10 minutes of easy running. 1 Mile at goal Marathon pace, 5 minutes cool down, walk for 3 and stretch.

Did 5 rounds, with average paces of 6:02, 7:11, 7:19, 8:04, last mile was 7:25 - which would indicate I either pushed too hard or my 4 minute intervals are too slow. Felt good towards the end.

Today was back on the trails with descending miles - 7:57, 7:50, 7:37, 7:36, 7:06, 6:46 (pace for half mile), finished it off with 42 minutes on the bike trainer, including 5 x 45 second single leg drills.

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

 

[Sand]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

 

[SFBayDuck]

[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]

And a well deserved beer by the campfire at the end. Sounds like a hell of a day on the trails to me!

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent. And, like Beer, I'm intrigued about this one for some masochistic reason......

As for Mass100 - DO IT. It'll give you a WS100 qualifier for 2015, and with the change in the lottery you really want to get to year 3 and beyond to increase the odds of getting in.

 

[chauncey]

quote name="beer 302" post="16653792" timestamp="1395649258"]

So I set a goal to do 12 half marathons in 12 months in 12 states this year. Mainly trying to keep myself committed to running consistently all year and do some traveling around the country. 2/23 TX: The First Half, 2:02:06

3/9 CA: The Drunk Half, 2:04:00

3/23 AZ: The Crack 2hr Half, 1:54:59

Felt good to cross the beginner milestone of <2hr today, was at a 8:42 pace for first 10 miles then ran out of energy on the uphill 11th. Last 2 were at 8:26 pace. Amazing what a good night's sleep, being sober, and chasing hot chicks in skimpy shorts can do for your time.

Are there any half marathons you guys would recommend based on scenery, after party, charity, etc?

I'll probably take April off to train and work on speed (like to get down to 8:30 pace by late summer and 8:00 pace by 2015). Looking to do 2-3 races in May/June

Nice job chauncey!!! That's a cool way to stay plugged into the sport. From your first 3 I'll guess you are on the west coast, plenty of good running out that way year round to keep you busy. There are a lot of top 10 or "must do befor you die" lists out there, I'd google up a few and see what works for you. The signature half around here is in November (Charlotte's Thunder Road) but I wouldn't call it anything special to hop on a plane for.

Thanks for the rec, I'm from Charlotte and get back 2-3 times a year so a half there is definitely going to happen. I'll put Thunder Road on the short list. My brother lives there and is doing his 2nd Raleigh 70.3 on 6/1, I was hoping to run the 13.1 with him but I guess Ironman frowns upon that. I've never swam or ridden a road bike but I'm planning on doing a sprint or Olympic tri in the Charlotte area with him sometime later this year.

Tri-man, that Monterrey half looks incredible, thanks for putting it on my radar. Also looks like the Thunder Road and Big Sur are the same weekend so I will have some decisions to make.

BnB, great write up, you the man you the man you the man.

 

[FUBAR]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

Agreed that it's easier to bike after running, but I assumed the specificity of training bike to run would help during the race.

 

[beer 302]

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent.

Brings up another question I have, how do you train for that? It crossed my mind this morning as I was running in the hills. There are some decent training hills around here so run them opposite of what you typically would? Meaning sprint the downhill and jog the uphill? I don't know how you prep for something like what BnB just went through.

 

[Sand]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

Agreed that it's easier to bike after running, but I assumed the specificity of training bike to run would help during the race.

Fastest guy I know around here (1:5x Olympic guy) always does his runs first.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

Agreed that it's easier to bike after running, but I assumed the specificity of training bike to run would help during the race.

I am a big fan of the double and triple brick. If your intent is to be run heavy and still replicate tri race day a bit, why don't you modify these and do something like run/bike/run/bike/run? You'd get 2 sets of T2 work in this as well.

 

[Ned]

Still here. My race is in 3 weeks.

Not much new to report, except I feel my training is all over the place. I have not felt good at all during this build up to the race. Where in previous races I was feeling I was making progress, right now I just don't feel like I'm getting there.

Not sure if it's all the running slow I've been doing has made me feel I'm not making progress, or if that's just part of the process and the end game is not this race but maybe for later in the year.

Just don't feel great right now, so mentally I'm losing the battle at this point. Starting to wonder if I have some other health issues that are hindering me.

My training schedule called for a 15k race for today, so I decided to just run 9.6 and try to run a good solid pace. Ended running an 8:44 pace, so not bad. HR averaged 168. I didn't prepare that great the last 2 days getting ready in terms of diet and hydration, so I know that's on me.

Oh, I don't know why I thought your race was in March.If you aren't feeling improvement, maybe you're doing too many easy runs. I've been doing a bit of reading and a thing that really caught my eye was quality over quantity for speed. The only time you should really be running slow is your long runs and your recovery runs... And recovery runs really aren't a necessity. Run some hills, do some track work, run some fartleks but whatever you do don't practice plodding. Train slow and race slow.

That's been my whole plan. I've been running 6 days a week, and three of those days are hills, interval training, or tempo runs. So I've done a fair amount of speed work.

How have your tempos gone? Are you running them faster than goal pace? For how many miles? You're also running occasionally at goal pace, right? How have those runs gone?

Good questions. It's also possible that if you're incorporating all that speed work and you're not feeling improvement, then you may be over training.

It's probably too late to sign up for a tuneup race before your half but I would recommend doing some trial runs around 10K and under to see where you're at.

Here are some of my results from the last few weeks. This is only the speed work, as I've been doing somewhat easy runs the other days.March 4th: 4x800, 10K Pace: Ran the 800's in a pace in the 7:40 range. Avg HR = 160

March 6th: 45 minute tempo: First 2 miles at about 10:00 pace, then start ramping up. At about mile 3.5 I reach my peak for about .5 mile, where I'm running in the 7:20 range, and at the end of that stretch I'm hitting 6:52, but not for long. Maybe a minute. Then I ramp back down for the remainder of the time. I'm basing this off the Higdon plan, so it's entirely possible I'm not doing tempo runs properly. Avg HR = 154

March 8th: 4 Mile Pace: Pace is 8:11. My goal for the HM is 8:00ish. Avg HR = 174

March 11th: 3 x 1600 Race Pace: Pace is 7:58. Avg HR = 178

March 13th: 50 Minute Tempo: First 3-4 miles are at about 8:55 pace. Start to ramp up, and at my peak I'm at about a 7:30 pace, which I hold for about a .5 mile. Then ramp down the remainder of the run. Avg HR = 164

March 15th: Scheduled for a 5 Mile Pace, but I was traveling on Sunday, so did my long run of 11.1 on this day.

Last week was sporadic, as I was traveling most of the week. It was actually a week with an extra rest day scheduled in, but I ended up running slow runs on Tuesday and Saturday. I then had a scheduled 15k race pace for Sunday, so I ran 9.6 miles at a 8:44 pace. This is the one that got me a little worried about my progression.

Where's the HR data at, man? You're running too many speed and tempo workouts close together, IMO. Your legs are probably pretty spent. What are you doing between these training runs?

Also, what's your HM PR? Curious where the 8:00 goal is coming from.

Sorry about that. Added above and bolded.All I'm doing is following the Higdon Advanced HM plan to the day. So the runs you see above are basically Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday runs. I'm running a slow run on Mondays and Wednesdays, rest on Friday, and then a long run on Sundays.

My legs actually feel pretty dang good. Not much soreness at all and they don't feel dead to me at all.

My PR HM was 1:52, so I set a goal of 1:45. Hence the 8:00 pace.

I think I've identified the problem. Your speed work isn't speed work. It's medium work. You're are doing VO2 max type workouts at a threshold pace. If your goal is to run your half marathon at an 8 minute pace than doing 800's and 1600's at just a bit faster than a 8 minute pace probably isn't very challenging. You should be running your tempo runs at a steady 8 minute pace and your track work should be at 5K pace or better (<7:30).

He's following the Higdon plan, which his tempo runs aren't your traditional tempo runs. The pace runs are more of what we're used to for tempo. I agree with you, I prefer the steady paced tempos @ HM pace over Higdon's tempo run, which is more of a progression run.

I agree that his speed work isn't really speed work, but I highly doubt its the cause for plateauing. He's still a relatively new runner - he's still got a ton of room to grow and would benefit from almost any sort of running above HM pacing. I have a feeling he's a tad over-trained.

One thing that I learned a couple of years ago that hasn't been talked about with Chief is goal setting... Picking arbitrary time goals can be a recipe for all sorts of issues. If you pick a goal that's too aggressive, you're going to be running all of your runs at less than optimal intensity. I have had much better success letting my training tell me what to shoot for... I've said it in here for quite a while - aside from actually racing, a good long tempo run is the best indicator of your fitness level. When I'm running a 7:15avg for a tempo run at an acceptable HR range (~173-175), I know I've got a shot at running that pace or a tad better for a HM and will use that as my guide.

That's where training by HR really shines. Train at the correct effort levels (i.e. HR ranges) and the paces will work themselves out. The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

For the speed work, tempo, and pace runs, you want to log and track those HRs for the actual splits only - forget the warmup, rest, and cool down HRs. You want to know what your HR is doing while running at the X:XX pace. So instead of a 160 avg HR for the 3/4 run, you'd want to know what your HR was for each of the 800m intervals.

 

[Ned]

BnB - I don't even know what to say, man. You're on a completely different level that I'll never understand.

 

[SteveC702]

quote name="beer 302" post="16653792" timestamp="1395649258"]

So I set a goal to do 12 half marathons in 12 months in 12 states this year. Mainly trying to keep myself committed to running consistently all year and do some traveling around the country.2/23 TX: The First Half, 2:02:06

3/9 CA: The Drunk Half, 2:04:00

3/23 AZ: The Crack 2hr Half, 1:54:59

Felt good to cross the beginner milestone of <2hr today, was at a 8:42 pace for first 10 miles then ran out of energy on the uphill 11th. Last 2 were at 8:26 pace. Amazing what a good night's sleep, being sober, and chasing hot chicks in skimpy shorts can do for your time.

Are there any half marathons you guys would recommend based on scenery, after party, charity, etc?

I'll probably take April off to train and work on speed (like to get down to 8:30 pace by late summer and 8:00 pace by 2015). Looking to do 2-3 races in May/June

Nice job chauncey!!! That's a cool way to stay plugged into the sport. From your first 3 I'll guess you are on the west coast, plenty of good running out that way year round to keep you busy. There are a lot of top 10 or "must do befor you die" lists out there, I'd google up a few and see what works for you. The signature half around here is in November (Charlotte's Thunder Road) but I wouldn't call it anything special to hop on a plane for.

Thanks for the rec, I'm from Charlotte and get back 2-3 times a year so a half there is definitely going to happen. I'll put Thunder Road on the short list. My brother lives there and is doing his 2nd Raleigh 70.3 on 6/1, I was hoping to run the 13.1 with him but I guess Ironman frowns upon that. I've never swam or ridden a road bike but I'm planning on doing a sprint or Olympic tri in the Charlotte area with him sometime later this year.

Tri-man, that Monterrey half looks incredible, thanks for putting it on my radar. Also looks like the Thunder Road and Big Sur are the same weekend so I will have some decisions to make.

BnB, great write up, you the man you the man you the man.

Here is a list: although they only have the best one (based on their opinion) from each state - http://dailyburn.com/life/fitness/best-half-marathons/

My 10 favorites that I have run:

1. Rock n' Roll Las Vegas (Las Vegas, NV - November) - Ran it twice, had one PR and one huge comeback race. It's a night race.

2. Garry Bjorkland Half Marathon (Duluth, MN - June) - Went into the race hurt and dropped out, but the course is super fast.

3. Houston Aramco Half Marathon (Houston, TX - January) - Good organization, fast course, great crowd support. They even had ice cream in the finisher area.

4. Skinny Raven Half Marathon (Anchorage, AK - August) - Fast course with some minor rolling hills in the middle. Small race so it's easier to get into the start area just minutes before. Scenic course.

5. Indianapolis Monumental (Indianapolis, IN - November) - Fairly flat course in Indiana. Good organization and crowd support.

6. Chicago Half Marathon (Chicago, IL - September) - Flat course except for the bridge/hill turnaround a little past halfway, decent crowd support too.

7. Air Force Half Marathon (Dayton, OH - September) - They pick a different air plane to flight over the start every year, the early stages of the course runs through Wright Patterson AFB and it's mostly flat with a couple of rough hills in the middle. There's pizza at the finish.

8. Rock n' Rolll New Orleans (New Orleans, LA - February) - Pretty good crowd support, goes through a bit of downtown New Orleans.

9. Columbus Half Marathon (Columbus, OH - October) - Fast course, good support and organization.

10. New Bedford Half Marathon (New Bedford, MA - March) - Super competitive race up front, and course is brutally hard (hilly and often windy). But it's fairly scenic and they serve good food (New England clam chowder, other snacks etc...) at the line.

Wishlist:

1. Rock n' Roll San Diego (San Diego, CA - June) - Fast course with net downhill from start to finish.

2. Rock n' Roll Philadelphia (Philadelphia, PA - September) - Supposedly one of the fastest flat courses in the country.

3. NYC Half (New York, NY - March) - Heard the crowd support is pretty awesome, runs right through New York.

4. America's Finest City Half (San Diego, CA - August) - Not as fast as the other San Diego race, but heard it's scenic.

5. Carlsbad (Carlsbad, CA - January) - Heard this one is fast and scenic as well.

Honorable Mention:

City of Oaks (North Carolina, NC - November) - Heard some good things about this one.

Country Music (Nashville, TN - April)

One-American Indi-mini (Indianapolis, IN - May) - I think you get to run on the Indy-500 track.

 

[Hang 10]

Still here. My race is in 3 weeks.

Not much new to report, except I feel my training is all over the place. I have not felt good at all during this build up to the race. Where in previous races I was feeling I was making progress, right now I just don't feel like I'm getting there.

Not sure if it's all the running slow I've been doing has made me feel I'm not making progress, or if that's just part of the process and the end game is not this race but maybe for later in the year.

Just don't feel great right now, so mentally I'm losing the battle at this point. Starting to wonder if I have some other health issues that are hindering me.

My training schedule called for a 15k race for today, so I decided to just run 9.6 and try to run a good solid pace. Ended running an 8:44 pace, so not bad. HR averaged 168. I didn't prepare that great the last 2 days getting ready in terms of diet and hydration, so I know that's on me.

Oh, I don't know why I thought your race was in March.If you aren't feeling improvement, maybe you're doing too many easy runs. I've been doing a bit of reading and a thing that really caught my eye was quality over quantity for speed. The only time you should really be running slow is your long runs and your recovery runs... And recovery runs really aren't a necessity. Run some hills, do some track work, run some fartleks but whatever you do don't practice plodding. Train slow and race slow.

That's been my whole plan. I've been running 6 days a week, and three of those days are hills, interval training, or tempo runs. So I've done a fair amount of speed work.

How have your tempos gone? Are you running them faster than goal pace? For how many miles? You're also running occasionally at goal pace, right? How have those runs gone?

Good questions. It's also possible that if you're incorporating all that speed work and you're not feeling improvement, then you may be over training.

It's probably too late to sign up for a tuneup race before your half but I would recommend doing some trial runs around 10K and under to see where you're at.

Here are some of my results from the last few weeks. This is only the speed work, as I've been doing somewhat easy runs the other days.March 4th: 4x800, 10K Pace: Ran the 800's in a pace in the 7:40 range. Avg HR = 160

March 6th: 45 minute tempo: First 2 miles at about 10:00 pace, then start ramping up. At about mile 3.5 I reach my peak for about .5 mile, where I'm running in the 7:20 range, and at the end of that stretch I'm hitting 6:52, but not for long. Maybe a minute. Then I ramp back down for the remainder of the time. I'm basing this off the Higdon plan, so it's entirely possible I'm not doing tempo runs properly. Avg HR = 154

March 8th: 4 Mile Pace: Pace is 8:11. My goal for the HM is 8:00ish. Avg HR = 174

March 11th: 3 x 1600 Race Pace: Pace is 7:58. Avg HR = 178

March 13th: 50 Minute Tempo: First 3-4 miles are at about 8:55 pace. Start to ramp up, and at my peak I'm at about a 7:30 pace, which I hold for about a .5 mile. Then ramp down the remainder of the run. Avg HR = 164

March 15th: Scheduled for a 5 Mile Pace, but I was traveling on Sunday, so did my long run of 11.1 on this day.

Last week was sporadic, as I was traveling most of the week. It was actually a week with an extra rest day scheduled in, but I ended up running slow runs on Tuesday and Saturday. I then had a scheduled 15k race pace for Sunday, so I ran 9.6 miles at a 8:44 pace. This is the one that got me a little worried about my progression.

Where's the HR data at, man? You're running too many speed and tempo workouts close together, IMO. Your legs are probably pretty spent. What are you doing between these training runs?

Also, what's your HM PR? Curious where the 8:00 goal is coming from.

Sorry about that. Added above and bolded.All I'm doing is following the Higdon Advanced HM plan to the day. So the runs you see above are basically Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday runs. I'm running a slow run on Mondays and Wednesdays, rest on Friday, and then a long run on Sundays.

My legs actually feel pretty dang good. Not much soreness at all and they don't feel dead to me at all.

My PR HM was 1:52, so I set a goal of 1:45. Hence the 8:00 pace.

I think I've identified the problem. Your speed work isn't speed work. It's medium work. You're are doing VO2 max type workouts at a threshold pace. If your goal is to run your half marathon at an 8 minute pace than doing 800's and 1600's at just a bit faster than a 8 minute pace probably isn't very challenging. You should be running your tempo runs at a steady 8 minute pace and your track work should be at 5K pace or better (<7:30).

He's following the Higdon plan, which his tempo runs aren't your traditional tempo runs. The pace runs are more of what we're used to for tempo. I agree with you, I prefer the steady paced tempos @ HM pace over Higdon's tempo run, which is more of a progression run.

I agree that his speed work isn't really speed work, but I highly doubt its the cause for plateauing. He's still a relatively new runner - he's still got a ton of room to grow and would benefit from almost any sort of running above HM pacing. I have a feeling he's a tad over-trained.

One thing that I learned a couple of years ago that hasn't been talked about with Chief is goal setting... Picking arbitrary time goals can be a recipe for all sorts of issues. If you pick a goal that's too aggressive, you're going to be running all of your runs at less than optimal intensity. I have had much better success letting my training tell me what to shoot for... I've said it in here for quite a while - aside from actually racing, a good long tempo run is the best indicator of your fitness level. When I'm running a 7:15avg for a tempo run at an acceptable HR range (~173-175), I know I've got a shot at running that pace or a tad better for a HM and will use that as my guide.

That's where training by HR really shines. Train at the correct effort levels (i.e. HR ranges) and the paces will work themselves out. The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

For the speed work, tempo, and pace runs, you want to log and track those HRs for the actual splits only - forget the warmup, rest, and cool down HRs. You want to know what your HR is doing while running at the X:XX pace. So instead of a 160 avg HR for the 3/4 run, you'd want to know what your HR was for each of the 800m intervals.

Good stuff, Ned.

 

[Juxtatarot]

The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

The 15K at 8:44/168 concerns me too. Yesterday I started typing out advice a couple times but stopped because I wasn't sure I could give good advice with 3 weeks left.

I guess if I were Chief I'd completely rest for two or three days than retry a run something like, 2 warm-up miles, 5 @ HMP or under and then a cool down. Even if he doesn't realize it, maybe fatigue is affecting him. A run like that after rest might give him a better idea where he's really at and whether his goal pace is realistic.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent.

Brings up another question I have, how do you train for that? It crossed my mind this morning as I was running in the hills. There are some decent training hills around here so run them opposite of what you typically would? Meaning sprint the downhill and jog the uphill? I don't know how you prep for something like what BnB just went through.

Yup - run hard down hills! Whether it's reverse hill repeats, long hill descents, or just focusing on hammering any downhills you encounter on a longer run, you want to focus on the downhill sections and running hard. You'll know you did it right if your quads are sore the next day.

A specific workout I've done to train for hills in ultras is a 1000' climb over 2 1/2 miles, which I power hike up and then run hard back down. I'll be adding 2-3 repeats of that over the summer to prepare for my fall ultras. It's very specific for the races I do because it works on both my power hiking/ascending and building up my quads to handle the descents.

 

[Ned]

Steve - watch out for the heat on your wishlist #2 (Philly). Early September has the potential to be a cooker still. I've avoided this one because of that (I'm a pansy in the heat/humidity). If you're looking to try a Philly race, the Philly Half or Full in November is a must!

 

[Ned]

The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

The 15K at 8:44/168 concerns me too. Yesterday I started typing out advice a couple times but stopped because I wasn't sure I could give good advice with 3 weeks left.

I guess if I were Chief I'd completely rest for two or three days than retry a run something like, 2 warm-up miles, 5 @ HMP or under and then a cool down. Even if he doesn't realize it, maybe fatigue is affecting him. A run like that after rest might give him a better idea where he's really at and whether his goal pace is realistic.

I agree 100%. A couple of rest days would do him wonders, I think. Huge fan of that Pfitz style tempo run....

 

[Ned]

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent.

Brings up another question I have, how do you train for that? It crossed my mind this morning as I was running in the hills. There are some decent training hills around here so run them opposite of what you typically would? Meaning sprint the downhill and jog the uphill? I don't know how you prep for something like what BnB just went through.

Yup - run hard down hills! Whether it's reverse hill repeats, long hill descents, or just focusing on hammering any downhills you encounter on a longer run, you want to focus on the downhill sections and running hard. You'll know you did it right if your quads are sore the next day.

A specific workout I've done to train for hills in ultras is a 1000' climb over 2 1/2 miles, which I power hike up and then run hard back down. I'll be adding 2-3 repeats of that over the summer to prepare for my fall ultras. It's very specific for the races I do because it works on both my power hiking/ascending and building up my quads to handle the descents.

I feel like such a sissy when I ready stuff from you and BnB. My annual trail race in April features a whopping 1800ish total climb for a HM and it kicks my ###. That's a walk in the park for you guys.

 

[ChiefD]

The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

The 15K at 8:44/168 concerns me too. Yesterday I started typing out advice a couple times but stopped because I wasn't sure I could give good advice with 3 weeks left.

I guess if I were Chief I'd completely rest for two or three days than retry a run something like, 2 warm-up miles, 5 @ HMP or under and then a cool down. Even if he doesn't realize it, maybe fatigue is affecting him. A run like that after rest might give him a better idea where he's really at and whether his goal pace is realistic.

I agree 100%. A couple of rest days would do him wonders, I think. Huge fan of that Pfitz style tempo run....

Thanks guys for the feedback. And Ned is right, I am a pretty new runner to all this. So when I pick a goal, it is literally a shot in the dark. Mainly because I don't know any better. The only real basis I have is the two previous HM I have run. The first one I ran I was at a 9:24 pace, and the 2nd one I ran I was at 8:23 pace. So I figure, why not an 8:00 pace this time?

And I've only really been using the HR monitor for the last couple of months, so that's thrown a whole new loop in my training.

So I know my HR numbers are high, but I'm still a newbie at that kind of training.

And I'll take your guys' advice about resting, and this is a good week to do so: wife is out of town on business for a couple of days, so I'm playing Mr. Mom this week.

 

[Sand]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

Agreed that it's easier to bike after running, but I assumed the specificity of training bike to run would help during the race.

I am a big fan of the double and triple brick. If your intent is to be run heavy and still replicate tri race day a bit, why don't you modify these and do something like run/bike/run/bike/run? You'd get 2 sets of T2 work in this as well.

Yeah, for July you'd better change that to run/swim/run/swim ad infinitum...

 

[BassNBrew]

I think it moved. I read this and thought man, I'd love to give that a shot, so much so I'm looking up the course to see if it's worth a trip to run some of the course. With the areas around you I'd think there is some good hill training, no? Probably nothing like that but you certainly don't live in the flatlands. Of course i can't imagine training for this thing either, between your report and those of the ladies I knew running it sounds like an absolute beast. If you happened to notice a short haired blond right around the aid station that you call it quits at named Katie, she threw in the towel around mile 45. Not sure what kind of time she had going.Results. I was following along an ultra runners feed on FB this weekend. She was helping crew for Jeff Dean who finished the Death Race 29th and then ran this 100 miler this weekend. Yea that's plain stupid

I live up by Lake Norman but I frequently travel to Asheville and Boone. One of my favorite training techniques is to run/hike the Mountains to Sea Trail out of Ashville towards Pisgah or Mitchell and then run the Blue Ridge parkway back down. I've probably done myself a disservice by not running the trails back down, but I always figure I'm getting more benefit from hammering the road down hills then shuffling down the trails.

As far as hill training close to you, Crowder's Mt may be an option. I used to love to mtb South Mt State park and remember a five mile climb that was very runnable for a technical standpoint. If you're looking for something different, Lake Norman State Park has 30+ miles of trails. No long climbs but a lot of up and down.

We should meet up for a run sometime.

 

[BassNBrew]

[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]

And a well deserved beer by the campfire at the end. Sounds like a hell of a day on the trails to me!

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent. And, like Beer, I'm intrigued about this one for some masochistic reason......

As for Mass100 - DO IT. It'll give you a WS100 qualifier for 2015, and with the change in the lottery you really want to get to year 3 and beyond to increase the odds of getting in.

My quads would have survived. Knees were more of an issue. Biggest thing that I failed to mention was that any time I came across a flattish section and tried to pick up the pace, I tripped and spilled or smashed my toe on a rock/root. I did carry trekking poles which helped with the balance issue but can't hammer with these. Theses trails had a huge amount of leaf cover. I was very surprised about this. All the local trails I run have long since seen those leaves either smashed up or blown away. I can only assume it was due to the remoteness and the Appalachian trail being close by drawing more traffic.

 

[SFBayDuck]

[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]

And a well deserved beer by the campfire at the end. Sounds like a hell of a day on the trails to me!

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent. And, like Beer, I'm intrigued about this one for some masochistic reason......

As for Mass100 - DO IT. It'll give you a WS100 qualifier for 2015, and with the change in the lottery you really want to get to year 3 and beyond to increase the odds of getting in.

My quads would have survived. Knees were more of an issue. Biggest thing that I failed to mention was that any time I came across a flattish section and tried to pick up the pace, I tripped and spilled or smashed my toe on a rock/root. I did carry trekking poles which helped with the balance issue but can't hammer with these. Theses trails had a huge amount of leaf cover. I was very surprised about this. All the local trails I run have long since seen those leaves either smashed up or blown away. I can only assume it was due to the remoteness and the Appalachian trail being close by drawing more traffic.

Technical downhill is a whole other issue - and like everything it's all about practice. I've had times where I really get into a groove, and the mantra "flow down the hill like water" actually works. And then other times when I trip and almost fall off a cliff. A lot of the big descents near me are fire road, I'll need to do some more research into my Fall races to see how technical the sections are, and may have to seek out some more consistent technical stuff.

Why do you think you were tripping on the flats? Fatigue?

As for the knees - I know you're a bigger runner, too, that's tough. I know mine get much less sore now at 190 than they did at 200, and it's a big reason my goal for this fall is to be <180.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent.

Brings up another question I have, how do you train for that? It crossed my mind this morning as I was running in the hills. There are some decent training hills around here so run them opposite of what you typically would? Meaning sprint the downhill and jog the uphill? I don't know how you prep for something like what BnB just went through.

Yup - run hard down hills! Whether it's reverse hill repeats, long hill descents, or just focusing on hammering any downhills you encounter on a longer run, you want to focus on the downhill sections and running hard. You'll know you did it right if your quads are sore the next day.

A specific workout I've done to train for hills in ultras is a 1000' climb over 2 1/2 miles, which I power hike up and then run hard back down. I'll be adding 2-3 repeats of that over the summer to prepare for my fall ultras. It's very specific for the races I do because it works on both my power hiking/ascending and building up my quads to handle the descents.

I feel like such a sissy when I ready stuff from you and BnB. My annual trail race in April features a whopping 1800ish total climb for a HM and it kicks my ###. That's a walk in the park for you guys.

Well you're also probably pushing those climbs hard, "racing" the 1/2. That would kick my ###, as I'm reminded whenever I do uphill repeats.

 

[tri-man 47]

I knew 2Young would stop by to recommend the double/triple bricks! (Which have worked well for his crazy races).

Beer - I agree with SFDuck and others on the downhill training. Something I picked up somewhere is to do a couple hard uphill repeats, then mix in a hard downhill.

Ned - I of course agree with the HR training. With an accumulated body of HR data, it works very well to use that information for races.

I tried something new last night and went out to run a few miles later at night after teaching a class. As I was merely running sidewalks on the way to a local track - and running a bit cautiously because of the dark - I recalled that many of BnB's miles on those tough trails were done in the dark! Even with a headlamp, that still has to be incredibly difficult ...you just can't be inattentive. Amazing.

I did push a hard mile on the track and ran a 6:51 ..hopefully I'm getting some speed back.

 

[BassNBrew]

[SIZE=medium]As promised...hope you enjoy or at least sympathize.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Georgia Death Race Report[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Final tallies – 43.5 miles, 16 hours, 11,700 ft climbing, 8500 Kcals burned, 1 kicked butt.[/SIZE]

And a well deserved beer by the campfire at the end. Sounds like a hell of a day on the trails to me!

Brutal climbs and descents, obviously, and a good reminder to ramp up my long downhill workouts for my fall races - those blown quads are the #1 DNF reason for most trail ultras with a lot of elevation descent. And, like Beer, I'm intrigued about this one for some masochistic reason......

As for Mass100 - DO IT. It'll give you a WS100 qualifier for 2015, and with the change in the lottery you really want to get to year 3 and beyond to increase the odds of getting in.

My quads would have survived. Knees were more of an issue. Biggest thing that I failed to mention was that any time I came across a flattish section and tried to pick up the pace, I tripped and spilled or smashed my toe on a rock/root. I did carry trekking poles which helped with the balance issue but can't hammer with these. Theses trails had a huge amount of leaf cover. I was very surprised about this. All the local trails I run have long since seen those leaves either smashed up or blown away. I can only assume it was due to the remoteness and the Appalachian trail being close by drawing more traffic.

Technical downhill is a whole other issue - and like everything it's all about practice. I've had times where I really get into a groove, and the mantra "flow down the hill like water" actually works. And then other times when I trip and almost fall off a cliff. A lot of the big descents near me are fire road, I'll need to do some more research into my Fall races to see how technical the sections are, and may have to seek out some more consistent technical stuff.

Why do you think you were tripping on the flats? Fatigue?

As for the knees - I know you're a bigger runner, too, that's tough. I know mine get much less sore now at 190 than they did at 200, and it's a big reason my goal for this fall is to be <180.

Because I'm clumsy and have no balance. I almost went off the side of a 3 ft x 10 ft long wooden bridge w/o rails.

Regarding Mass100, what makes you think I'd have any shot at completing this based on this last event. I'm thinking it will be 25% easier terrain wise but 50% longer. SOB trail is very rocky from what I read.

 

[Hang 10]

The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

The 15K at 8:44/168 concerns me too. Yesterday I started typing out advice a couple times but stopped because I wasn't sure I could give good advice with 3 weeks left.

I guess if I were Chief I'd completely rest for two or three days than retry a run something like, 2 warm-up miles, 5 @ HMP or under and then a cool down. Even if he doesn't realize it, maybe fatigue is affecting him. A run like that after rest might give him a better idea where he's really at and whether his goal pace is realistic.

I agree 100%. A couple of rest days would do him wonders, I think. Huge fan of that Pfitz style tempo run....

Thanks guys for the feedback. And Ned is right, I am a pretty new runner to all this. So when I pick a goal, it is literally a shot in the dark. Mainly because I don't know any better. The only real basis I have is the two previous HM I have run. The first one I ran I was at a 9:24 pace, and the 2nd one I ran I was at 8:23 pace. So I figure, why not an 8:00 pace this time?

And I've only really been using the HR monitor for the last couple of months, so that's thrown a whole new loop in my training.

So I know my HR numbers are high, but I'm still a newbie at that kind of training.

And I'll take your guys' advice about resting, and this is a good week to do so: wife is out of town on business for a couple of days, so I'm playing Mr. Mom this week.

Knocking 23 seconds off your best half time isn't too aggressive IMO. It wouldn't be shocking at all for you to run a better time than that honestly.

 

[Hang 10]

In other news, I won a free registration to local 5K this weekend. Was a bit sooner than I was planning on racing after my half but what the hell...should be a nice baseline test to my season. Not in PR shape but hopefully I can destroy Jux's last 5K time.

 

[Juxtatarot]

In other news, I won a free registration to local 5K this weekend. Was a bit sooner than I was planning on racing after my half but what the hell...should be a nice baseline test to my season. Not in PR shape but hopefully I can destroy Jux's last 5K time.

Let me know know when you ready to shoot for my PR.

 

[Hang 10]

In other news, I won a free registration to local 5K this weekend. Was a bit sooner than I was planning on racing after my half but what the hell...should be a nice baseline test to my season. Not in PR shape but hopefully I can destroy Jux's last 5K time.

Let me know know when you ready to shoot for my PR.

Stop trying to live off your glory days, uncle Rico. We're talking about today.

 

[beer 302]

Yup - run hard down hills! Whether it's reverse hill repeats, long hill descents, or just focusing on hammering any downhills you encounter on a longer run, you want to focus on the downhill sections and running hard. You'll know you did it right if your quads are sore the next day.

A specific workout I've done to train for hills in ultras is a 1000' climb over 2 1/2 miles, which I power hike up and then run hard back down. I'll be adding 2-3 repeats of that over the summer to prepare for my fall ultras. It's very specific for the races I do because it works on both my power hiking/ascending and building up my quads to handle the descents.

I feel like such a sissy when I ready stuff from you and BnB. My annual trail race in April features a whopping 1800ish total climb for a HM and it kicks my ###. That's a walk in the park for you guys.

Thanks Duck, I have two pretty solid hills I could use for that on the roads but they are more long, gradual up's compared to the rather drastic ones you tend to encounter on the trails. I'm taking Friday off with the specific purpose of getting the #### outta this place for a day and running about 20 miles on the trails. That should be some solid work Ned I hear you, the mountains these guys run scare the beejesus outta me. That said, i can't wait to take the next step and tackle one

I live up by Lake Norman but I frequently travel to Asheville and Boone. One of my favorite training techniques is to run/hike the Mountains to Sea Trail out of Ashville towards Pisgah or Mitchell and then run the Blue Ridge parkway back down. I've probably done myself a disservice by not running the trails back down, but I always figure I'm getting more benefit from hammering the road down hills then shuffling down the trails.

As far as hill training close to you, Crowder's Mt may be an option. I used to love to mtb South Mt State park and remember a five mile climb that was very runnable for a technical standpoint. If you're looking for something different, Lake Norman State Park has 30+ miles of trails. No long climbs but a lot of up and down.

We should meet up for a run sometime.

Funny you mention Crowder's. I drove past it and Kings Mountain this weekend on the way to Greenville and got excited. The group I run the trails with go out there a few times a year (matter of fact they were out there the weekend you were playing in GA) but i haven't been able to make one yet. They are putting on a marathon there May 31st. Crowders "Marathon" RouteI'd actually love to get up and run around your area sometime as I've never been that way. You can carry me for a good workout after I quit trying to follow you 5 miles in.

 

[BassNBrew]

Some good news...

Last nite I did a 10k tempo run. Pace was 8'48". Back in Jan that same run was a 9'58" pace.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is an extremely busy week for me and the department -- we have an external review team on campus Wed-Fri for our once-every-seven-years program review. That means I've been slammed the past couple of days and booked all day for the rest of the week, which means getting up at 4:00 to get my runs in before I head to the office. Yesterday was an easy 5, and today was 8 with 5 at LT. I want to get another 10 miler in this week, but I'm not sure that will happen. Of course I knew this week would be nuts, so I planned ahead and made sure it was a scheduled "easy week." Having gotten 10 in on Sunday (relatively short after three consecutive Sunday 15-milers) and a good tempo run today, whatever else I get in this week will be fine.

 

[FUBAR]

Tri guys - Am I doing anything "wrong" if I run first, as the May marathon is an A race, then cycle afterwards? When we get closer to tri races I'll stick more with bike-to-run bricks.

[SIZE=12.727272033691406px] [/SIZE]

As far as bricks go I always found it easier to do the run first - much more likely to do the bike second rather than muster the will to do the run second. As far as conditioning effect I can't see how it matters.

Agreed that it's easier to bike after running, but I assumed the specificity of training bike to run would help during the race.

I am a big fan of the double and triple brick. If your intent is to be run heavy and still replicate tri race day a bit, why don't you modify these and do something like run/bike/run/bike/run? You'd get 2 sets of T2 work in this as well.

I'll probably put that into my kit bag when I get back home. Living in a hotel room makes the transition rather inconvenient.

 

[FUBAR]

quote name="beer 302" post="16653792" timestamp="1395649258"]

So I set a goal to do 12 half marathons in 12 months in 12 states this year. Mainly trying to keep myself committed to running consistently all year and do some traveling around the country.2/23 TX: The First Half, 2:02:06

3/9 CA: The Drunk Half, 2:04:00

3/23 AZ: The Crack 2hr Half, 1:54:59

Felt good to cross the beginner milestone of <2hr today, was at a 8:42 pace for first 10 miles then ran out of energy on the uphill 11th. Last 2 were at 8:26 pace. Amazing what a good night's sleep, being sober, and chasing hot chicks in skimpy shorts can do for your time.

Are there any half marathons you guys would recommend based on scenery, after party, charity, etc?

I'll probably take April off to train and work on speed (like to get down to 8:30 pace by late summer and 8:00 pace by 2015). Looking to do 2-3 races in May/June

Nice job chauncey!!! That's a cool way to stay plugged into the sport. From your first 3 I'll guess you are on the west coast, plenty of good running out that way year round to keep you busy. There are a lot of top 10 or "must do befor you die" lists out there, I'd google up a few and see what works for you. The signature half around here is in November (Charlotte's Thunder Road) but I wouldn't call it anything special to hop on a plane for.

Thanks for the rec, I'm from Charlotte and get back 2-3 times a year so a half there is definitely going to happen. I'll put Thunder Road on the short list. My brother lives there and is doing his 2nd Raleigh 70.3 on 6/1, I was hoping to run the 13.1 with him but I guess Ironman frowns upon that. I've never swam or ridden a road bike but I'm planning on doing a sprint or Olympic tri in the Charlotte area with him sometime later this year.

Tri-man, that Monterrey half looks incredible, thanks for putting it on my radar. Also looks like the Thunder Road and Big Sur are the same weekend so I will have some decisions to make.

BnB, great write up, you the man you the man you the man.

Here is a list: although they only have the best one (based on their opinion) from each state - http://dailyburn.com/life/fitness/best-half-marathons/

My 10 favorites that I have run:

1. Rock n' Roll Las Vegas (Las Vegas, NV - November) - Ran it twice, had one PR and one huge comeback race. It's a night race.

2. Garry Bjorkland Half Marathon (Duluth, MN - June) - Went into the race hurt and dropped out, but the course is super fast.

3. Houston Aramco Half Marathon (Houston, TX - January) - Good organization, fast course, great crowd support. They even had ice cream in the finisher area.

4. Skinny Raven Half Marathon (Anchorage, AK - August) - Fast course with some minor rolling hills in the middle. Small race so it's easier to get into the start area just minutes before. Scenic course.

5. Indianapolis Monumental (Indianapolis, IN - November) - Fairly flat course in Indiana. Good organization and crowd support.

6. Chicago Half Marathon (Chicago, IL - September) - Flat course except for the bridge/hill turnaround a little past halfway, decent crowd support too.

7. Air Force Half Marathon (Dayton, OH - September) - They pick a different air plane to flight over the start every year, the early stages of the course runs through Wright Patterson AFB and it's mostly flat with a couple of rough hills in the middle. There's pizza at the finish.

8. Rock n' Rolll New Orleans (New Orleans, LA - February) - Pretty good crowd support, goes through a bit of downtown New Orleans.

9. Columbus Half Marathon (Columbus, OH - October) - Fast course, good support and organization.

10. New Bedford Half Marathon (New Bedford, MA - March) - Super competitive race up front, and course is brutally hard (hilly and often windy). But it's fairly scenic and they serve good food (New England clam chowder, other snacks etc...) at the line.

Wishlist:

1. Rock n' Roll San Diego (San Diego, CA - June) - Fast course with net downhill from start to finish.

2. Rock n' Roll Philadelphia (Philadelphia, PA - September) - Supposedly one of the fastest flat courses in the country.

3. NYC Half (New York, NY - March) - Heard the crowd support is pretty awesome, runs right through New York.

4. America's Finest City Half (San Diego, CA - August) - Not as fast as the other San Diego race, but heard it's scenic.

5. Carlsbad (Carlsbad, CA - January) - Heard this one is fast and scenic as well.

Honorable Mention:

City of Oaks (North CarolinaRaleigh, NC - November) - Heard some good things about this one.

Country Music (Nashville, TN - April)

One-American Indi-mini (Indianapolis, IN - May) - I think you get to run on the Indy-500 track.

Can't speak for most of these, though they seem like good races if you want to travel. I've always been more inclined to do races in my backyard, but someday maybe...

The City of Oaks (heard good things and I like Raleigh) and Country Music are fun.

Indy-mini is one I want to do, just haven't yet. My sister has done this one many times and gives it great reviews.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Regarding Mass100, what makes you think I'd have any shot at completing this based on this last event. I'm thinking it will be 25% easier terrain wise but 50% longer. SOB trail is very rocky from what I read.

The cutoffs assume an even pace throughout the race, so that isn't very helpful for the first 75 miles. So I looked at the 25 or so last-hour finishers over the past 2 years to get a better idea of what you realistically need to do to finish this thing inside the 36 hour cutoff.

Mile 25.8 AS: average time was 6:45. 15:42 pace

Mile 50.1 AS: average time was 14:23. 17:13 cumulative pace, 18:51 for this section

Mile 78.1 AS: average time was 26:07. 20:03 cumulative pace, 25:08 for this section

Mile 103.7: cutoff is 36:00. 20:49 cumulative pace, 23:10 for this section

The key is probably that section from mile 50-78. You'll have 50 miles in your legs already, doing most of this part in the dark, and there is a ton of climbing in there and a fair amount of descent. It's probably why the pace there is even slower than the final 25 miles.

Can you accomplish those paces, and keep moving for thirty-six hours? I guess it really depends on how much "easier" the terrain is, both in terms of technicality and steepness, than the GA Death Race. I don't have any insight into that.

BTW, this whole exercise is scaring the #### out of me as I consider my race in September.....

Some good news... Last nite I did a 10k tempo run. Pace was 8'48". Back in Jan that same run was a 9'58" pace.

At least your recovery seems to have been quick!

 

[sho nuff]

Country Music Half is fun...hilly and you just never know what the weather will bring at that time of year in Nashville. Last year was cool and rainy...year before it was about 70 degrees.

They did change the start...so the course is a bit different this year starting downtown rather than out on West End. Not sure how well that will work packing that many people into the much narrower streets downtown and without the huge Centennial Park to have people stretching out and warming up (and an open space for tons of porto johns)

Still a fun race.

 

[ChiefD]

Rock the Parkway half marathon here in KC is a good one. Goes down one of the higher end, older neighborhoods. Nice wide streets, great fan support, bands playing at several points on the course. They then have food, beer, and a band at the end. And KC is such a friendly city.

 

[Sand]

Man, it is ####### spring, but someone has yet to inform mother nature. Rode 30 miles tonight in mid 40s weather with 20mph winds. Brrrr. Up the big hill (5% up for 350ft. or so) I was 5w stronger and 30sec. slower than last week. Damn wind. In fact, for a 6.5 minute effort I was only 10w off my all time best. Being only 3% off my max wattage isn't half bad for March.

Anyway, onward to tomorrow where I hope my ab strain has gone away and I can get back to running and swimming. We'll see.

 

[beer 302]

IN

http://www.outsideonline.com/featured-videos/adventure-videos/running/What-Moves-You--A-Running-Film.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost#ooid=0wdTJkbDqZpNAwcco0fmSx5zsnov_0Li

 

[gruecd]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd stop back with an update. Personal life is still a mess, but I've started running again. I'm still not 100%, but pain is only 2-3 on a scale of 1-10. I've run 53 miles so far this month, including a 14-miler at 8:31 pace on Monday night. I'm going to try something longer (16-20) on Saturday, and assuming it doesn't make the pain any worse, I think I'm gonna go ahead and run Boston. I'm out of shape, and I'm starting way in the back, so it won't be fast, but hopefully I can just get out there and finish.

I hope you're all doing well.

 

[ChiefD]

The 2 Pace runs on 3/8 and 3/11 are telling me you're body may not be ready for those paces, but I still suspect you're a bit over-trained. For HM pace, you should be training at your LT range. For a 187 mHR, you should be in the mid to high 160s. 174 & 178 are in the ranges of a 196ish mHR runner.

The 15K at 8:44/168 concerns me too. Yesterday I started typing out advice a couple times but stopped because I wasn't sure I could give good advice with 3 weeks left.

I guess if I were Chief I'd completely rest for two or three days than retry a run something like, 2 warm-up miles, 5 @ HMP or under and then a cool down. Even if he doesn't realize it, maybe fatigue is affecting him. A run like that after rest might give him a better idea where he's really at and whether his goal pace is realistic.

Well, I fully intended to run this today, but had to make a few adjustments on the fly. I rested the last 3 days, so I was ready to run. Obstacle #1 was my neighbor wanting to run. She has a 1/2 a week after mine, but has done little training. She wanted to do a slow 3, so I decided to just use this as my warm up and then drop her off and keep going. My heart rate was around 152 for the first 3 miles: pace was around 9:20.

At mile three I started going and did a little under 3 miles at a faster pace. Average pace was 7:41: heart rate was right about 180 through this entire stretch. Complicating things was it was REALLY windy here today, so for the last 1.5 miles I was running into about a 20 MPH wind. So I was working pretty hard there.

Then finished with a mile cool down. My pace here was 9:10ish, with a HR around 170 and dropping as I finished.

Overall I felt good. I know I have a lot of work to do from a HR standpoint, but I only have 2 months of that type of training under my belt.

 

[sho nuff]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd stop back with an update. Personal life is still a mess, but I've started running again. I'm still not 100%, but pain is only 2-3 on a scale of 1-10. I've run 53 miles so far this month, including a 14-miler at 8:31 pace on Monday night. I'm going to try something longer (16-20) on Saturday, and assuming it doesn't make the pain any worse, I think I'm gonna go ahead and run Boston. I'm out of shape, and I'm starting way in the back, so it won't be fast, but hopefully I can just get out there and finish.

I hope you're all doing well.

Good to hear.

Im pretty much over a ton of running.

Just can't get into anything long lately plus my ankle is still an issue. Starting therapy next week on it.

Still going to give the half a go as the ankle tends to loosen up a bit. Not doing it for any real time...just to go out and enjoy this city and the music and thank all the volunteers and just enjoy a fun run.

 

[worrierking]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd stop back with an update. Personal life is still a mess, but I've started running again. I'm still not 100%, but pain is only 2-3 on a scale of 1-10. I've run 53 miles so far this month, including a 14-miler at 8:31 pace on Monday night. I'm going to try something longer (16-20) on Saturday, and assuming it doesn't make the pain any worse, I think I'm gonna go ahead and run Boston. I'm out of shape, and I'm starting way in the back, so it won't be fast, but hopefully I can just get out there and finish.

I hope you're all doing well.

Glad you checked in Grue. Good luck at Boston.

I am still not all the way back from the groin issue. It's been almost three months since the initial injury. But I am running a bit. Going out for an easy three then going to PT before work.

 

[Ned]

Hey, guys. Just thought I'd stop back with an update. Personal life is still a mess, but I've started running again. I'm still not 100%, but pain is only 2-3 on a scale of 1-10. I've run 53 miles so far this month, including a 14-miler at 8:31 pace on Monday night. I'm going to try something longer (16-20) on Saturday, and assuming it doesn't make the pain any worse, I think I'm gonna go ahead and run Boston. I'm out of shape, and I'm starting way in the back, so it won't be fast, but hopefully I can just get out there and finish.

I hope you're all doing well.

GLGB. Don't be a stranger.