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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)

After reading all of these falling down notes I'm glad I got through this afternoon's sidewalk sprint workout sans battle wounds. Upped the intervals to a baker's dozen today. I'm going to increase the distance of each interval next time out as I wasn't as gassed as I should have been towards the end, which is a good thing. I was certainly fatigued, but the urge to vomit and blackout episodes weren't there. I've been doing 15-20 seconds (100-125 meters), so I'm thinking 20-30 seconds when I do this next week.

 
Suffered my first serious wipeout Saturday. Caught my toe on some raised asphalt.
:hifive: After crossing a city street this morning, I was turning left but caught my right toe on a bit of raised sidewalk ...had no leverage, and did a slow motion fall onto a lawn. No big deal, but I felt like a clumsy old man, which was not enjoyable.
You roadies and your curbs. ;)

https://www.facebook.com/salomonrunning/videos/10155629474250346/

 
Suffered my first serious wipeout Saturday. Caught my toe on some raised asphalt.
:hifive: After crossing a city street this morning, I was turning left but caught my right toe on a bit of raised sidewalk ...had no leverage, and did a slow motion fall onto a lawn. No big deal, but I felt like a clumsy old man, which was not enjoyable.
You roadies and your curbs. ;)

https://www.facebook.com/salomonrunning/videos/10155629474250346/
That's exactly what gruecd and I looked like when we were hammering the downhills at Ice Age. :thumbup:

 
FUBAR - Great work at the HIM. Your bike has really improved. Did you do that w/o a tri-bike?

Ned - Dang you're fast. Very impressive result!

 
Good work, jomar & CCC!

Hang10 - HR training sucks!
I hoping to be talked off the ledge but not by jumping. :doh:

I just remember a simpler time when I just used to run as fast a wanted to on any given day and I PR'd everything all the time. Maybe that time is past and I've plateaued but part of me wonders if I haven't because I've had so many hiccups with injuries and such. What would 18 months of just running healthy without restrictions look like? Makes me wonder.
you just need to decide your focus. If your focus is enjoying running and staying healthy, MAF helps there too but you need to give it time. Going out and doing whatever you feel like? that's different, but in a few months will you be happier having done that or watching your time decrease as you stay healthy?
Yeah, it seems to be the most sensible way for me to train for a marathon. My biggest weakness is aerobic fitness and I now know that. That should be my focus...it just as Ned has said, it sucks.

I just wonder how I ever hit the PR's that I've had over the years with mostly poor cardio. How can a guy that has averaged 6:16 for a 10K not be able to run 8 minute miles on his easy day?
You're looking at it backwards. Imagine what your 10K will be when you have a stronger aerobic base. Just because that off the shelf calculator says you should be running X:XX easily doesn't mean you can do it. Have you read the Hadd link in the OP?

I think you and I are very similar in that we're fast twitch guys trying to force our way into the slow twitch world. It's taken me literally years to get to where I'm at now and I still think I have a long ways to go.
But was your big break through because of heart rate training? You seemed to make a big jump when your diet came together last year, no?

Ok, someone talk me off the heart rate training ledge. I'm running out of patience (literally) for running so slow. How come my easy run paces based on heart rate are so much slower what McMillan says they should be? Based on my last race, I can run at least a 6:30 pace for a 10K but my "easy" runs at the same distance are almost 3 minutes a mile slower! I'm wondering if it would just be better to run by pace and actually get more miles in. Would this hamper my aerobic development? Sometimes I wonder if 5-10 BPM really means that much in the grand scheme of things.
Keeping the HR down can be difficult this time a year. It looks like on today's run and the 11 miler you mentioned that you tried to keep your avg HR at 145 #TeamGarmin. I think your max HR is higher than most, for example mine is 195 and I do most of my running under 145. It appears as though yours is around 200, so I think it would be safe for you to average 150.

Keep up the good work between your doubles and Juxt's workouts I feel like I slacker every time I upload data to garmin. I am trying to get in respectable mileage this week.
Sunday I was trying to keep my heart rate lower early because it was humid as hell and I figured I'd get some creep later in the run. Today I just ran with a group for national run day. I was pretty pleased that my BPM was down today with the cooler temps.

It's funny that you say that you feel like a slacker. It kills me to check out my friends runs on #teamgarmin because everyone runs faster than me and have a heart rate about 20 BPM lower than mine! You guys make it look so easy.
By opinion differs from most others about this but I think you should stick to the McMillan training paces assuming your respiration and perceived effort seem appropriate. You'll notice your heart rate fall (weather adjusted) as the weeks go by and your fitness increases.

Regarding my heart rate, keep in mind that I feel like I'm dying if my heart rate gets to 170 when, for you, that's not that big of a deal. We're apples and oranges.
I'm leaning this way because I'm just tired over thinking things. I also worry that running so much slower than marathon pace may hurt me in the long run. It's becoming too easy to run slow.

 
Did 5 miles this evening - hadn't jogged/run in a few days and it sucked. I've got a LONG ways to go still - my legs aren't strong enough to run the entire time and my fitness isn't good enough to either. I'm mixing in 2 leg workouts each week to help strengthen my legs.

 
But was your big break through because of heart rate training? You seemed to make a big jump when your diet came together last year, no?
Yeah, diet was a huge part, but it wasn't the only reason. I still had to put in the work in the proper ranges just like all the other big PRs.

I also worry that running so much slower than marathon pace may hurt me in the long run. It's becoming too easy to run slow.
Crazy talk.

 
Dropped my oldest son off just a little while ago for his first ever cross country practice. Hoping he likes it - I plan to encourage him to at least do all the summer training and then decide in the fall if he wants to tryout for the team. He's got the body type and the mentality to be a runner, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that he likes it. There were a couple of HS girls that appeared to be out there to run so maybe that will encourage him.

 
Ned said:
Hang 10 said:
But was your big break through because of heart rate training? You seemed to make a big jump when your diet came together last year, no?
Yeah, diet was a huge part, but it wasn't the only reason. I still had to put in the work in the proper ranges just like all the other big PRs.

Hang 10 said:
I also worry that running so much slower than marathon pace may hurt me in the long run. It's becoming too easy to run slow.
Crazy talk.
Oh, I know you worked your ### off. I've always been impressed with the miles and the consistency. It just seemed to me that when you combined that with a diet that worked, your fitness took off.

Maybe it is crazy. But it also seems crazy to run my long runs 2 1/2 minutes a mile slower than my goal marathon pace.

 
Do we have a FUBAR RR for Raleigh yet? Or did I just miss it? Was maybe going to add this to the calendar for 2016, so was hoping to hear about it.

In quasi-related news, my wife has approved my latest foolishness. Upon some internet browsing about a month ago, I discovered that IM Florida foundation entries were still available. After some (very) quick soul searching, I bit the bullet and registered. Now I've got IM Louisville (10/11) and IM Florida (11/7) on the docket for the season. One month apart is doable, right?

I was thinking something along the lines of taking a week off after Louisville and jumping back into 3-week taper volume. Your thoughts?

 
El Floppo said:
FUBAR - Great work at the HIM. Your bike has really improved. Did you do that w/o a tri-bike?
wait... what?
I use a road bike. Haven't wanted to pay for a tri bike yet. It's basically this: https://bikewar.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/liotto-sprint-2013-yellow-blue-campy-eps1.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1plus aerobars.

Do we have a FUBAR RR for Raleigh yet? Or did I just miss it? Was maybe going to add this to the calendar for 2016, so was hoping to hear about it.

In quasi-related news, my wife has approved my latest foolishness. Upon some internet browsing about a month ago, I discovered that IM Florida foundation entries were still available. After some (very) quick soul searching, I bit the bullet and registered. Now I've got IM Louisville (10/11) and IM Florida (11/7) on the docket for the season. One month apart is doable, right?

I was thinking something along the lines of taking a week off after Louisville and jumping back into 3-week taper volume. Your thoughts?
Later today I think. To be blunt, I'm disappointed in the race and haven't felt excited to post the report yet. But I will, especially as it might help me figure out what to do better next time.

ETA: the contract with Raleigh expired this year but there's talk of a new deal.

You've done a IM before, so how did you feel a month afterwards? I know I wasn't ready to get back into hard training until more than a month later but tapering, probably would work. Which one do you care more about? Maybe take Louisville easier than you would have otherwise? Enduranceplanet has had similar discussions, seems Tawnee thinks you could do it if you don't crush yourself in Louisville.

 
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Mileage has been better lately (10 miles/day the last three days), and I still can't drop any weight. WTF?! Is my body so adapted to running that I don't get a benefit anymore?

Anyway, signed my fat ### up for a half marathon next Saturday morning. I'm sure it'll be warm, and it's a tough course, so I'll be super happy if I can go sub-90.

 
El Floppo said:
FUBAR - Great work at the HIM. Your bike has really improved. Did you do that w/o a tri-bike?
wait... what?
I use a road bike. Haven't wanted to pay for a tri bike yet. It's basically this: https://bikewar.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/liotto-sprint-2013-yellow-blue-campy-eps1.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1plus aerobars.

Do we have a FUBAR RR for Raleigh yet? Or did I just miss it? Was maybe going to add this to the calendar for 2016, so was hoping to hear about it.

In quasi-related news, my wife has approved my latest foolishness. Upon some internet browsing about a month ago, I discovered that IM Florida foundation entries were still available. After some (very) quick soul searching, I bit the bullet and registered. Now I've got IM Louisville (10/11) and IM Florida (11/7) on the docket for the season. One month apart is doable, right?

I was thinking something along the lines of taking a week off after Louisville and jumping back into 3-week taper volume. Your thoughts?
Later today I think. To be blunt, I'm disappointed in the race and haven't felt excited to post the report yet. But I will, especially as it might help me figure out what to do better next time.

ETA: the contract with Raleigh expired this year but there's talk of a new deal.

You've done a IM before, so how did you feel a month afterwards? I know I wasn't ready to get back into hard training until more than a month later but tapering, probably would work. Which one do you care more about? Maybe take Louisville easier than you would have otherwise? Enduranceplanet has had similar discussions, seems Tawnee thinks you could do it if you don't crush yourself in Louisville.
Honestly, it's hard to judge. I've done 2 IM - Florida in 2012 and Chattanooga in 2014. I was in much, much better shape coming in to Chattanooga, and was in much better condition recovery-wise after the race also. That said, after Florida in 2012, I to this day say that my worst racing mistake is running the Thanksgiving half marathon in Atlanta about 3 weeks after Florida. That was an extreme sufferfest. Again, though, that was 3 years ago and what will be 2 IM builds ago. I think it's doable.

I'd say Louisville is my "A" race for the year. I'll be racing that one with a couple buddies and obviously I'd like to beat them. Florida I'll be racing by myself (family will be there, but no one I know racing). I'm thinking that I'm going to go all-out in Louisville, and take Florida easy. That last 13.1 is going to suck.

 
Dropped my oldest son off just a little while ago for his first ever cross country practice. Hoping he likes it - I plan to encourage him to at least do all the summer training and then decide in the fall if he wants to tryout for the team. He's got the body type and the mentality to be a runner, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that he likes it. There were a couple of HS girls that appeared to be out there to run so maybe that will encourage him.
So, he puked twice :lmao:

I give him credit though - he said he stopped for a little while and then kept running. Made me proud - although he said he wasn't sure he wants to go back. We had a good discussion and I explained he has to ease in to it (his coach told him the same) and he can't expect to run as fast as the other team members who have been running for longer. Good news is I think I have him convinced to keep going for now. They are doing a trail run tomorrow so hoping he has a better day.

 
Swam a quick (for me) 1000 yd. during my lunch break. Felt a tad light-headed when I was done. I think it was a lack of food beforehand and going a little faster.

 
Awesome AAA! hoping my sons do the same

Swam over lunch. The short pool was closed so they opened the 50M pool. That was enough to convince me to go in, love the long course pool. Just 2300m, felt good and pushed it just a little. Calves cramped again. At some point I hope to get past that.

 
El Floppo said:
FUBAR - Great work at the HIM. Your bike has really improved. Did you do that w/o a tri-bike?
wait... what?
I use a road bike. Haven't wanted to pay for a tri bike yet. It's basically this: https://bikewar.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/liotto-sprint-2013-yellow-blue-campy-eps1.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1plus aerobars.

Do we have a FUBAR RR for Raleigh yet? Or did I just miss it? Was maybe going to add this to the calendar for 2016, so was hoping to hear about it.

In quasi-related news, my wife has approved my latest foolishness. Upon some internet browsing about a month ago, I discovered that IM Florida foundation entries were still available. After some (very) quick soul searching, I bit the bullet and registered. Now I've got IM Louisville (10/11) and IM Florida (11/7) on the docket for the season. One month apart is doable, right?

I was thinking something along the lines of taking a week off after Louisville and jumping back into 3-week taper volume. Your thoughts?
Later today I think. To be blunt, I'm disappointed in the race and haven't felt excited to post the report yet. But I will, especially as it might help me figure out what to do better next time.

ETA: the contract with Raleigh expired this year but there's talk of a new deal.

You've done a IM before, so how did you feel a month afterwards? I know I wasn't ready to get back into hard training until more than a month later but tapering, probably would work. Which one do you care more about? Maybe take Louisville easier than you would have otherwise? Enduranceplanet has had similar discussions, seems Tawnee thinks you could do it if you don't crush yourself in Louisville.
ah- gotcha... with aerobars, no wonder you're nailing your rides.

IMs a month apart sounds like a recipe for blow-up or health disaster to me. That said- I've only done one IM, and followed it up with a HIM 2 months later where I still felt heavy-legged. I know 1 month later I felt like I was still in recovery mode.

 
Great race Ned.
Thanks! I guess you found which race I was doing! The course was an out/back, which I love. It was hillier than I wanted, but I knew the area so it didn't come as a shock. That just means I can shave off more time later on my shiny new PR!

It was a dreary mess, but it was good racing conditions. Slippery, but good! I started out with the leaders and knew we were flying. I looked at my watch around the 0.25mi mark and saw 4:58 pace. Sand would be proud! :lmao: Yeah, OK you got me, Mr fast guy..... I settled in with 3 other guys for the next 1.5. Most of the hills were on the Out portion of the course, which sets up for a nice return home.

I was able to shake the 2 teens I was running with in the hills at about 1.25. I spoke to the guy who came in 2nd in my AG (finished 0:52 back) - he said he was a few second behind me until we hit the hills and said I just took off. I didn't think I took off, but it felt nice to hear that! I was alone in 4th place the rest of the way. Playing the accordian game with 3rd place, but just didn't have the juice to close on him to make a move. I was maxed out and wheezing like a smoker at 2.25 and had no kick. There were a few demoralizing rollers in the last 0.5mi that had me really questioning if I could keep going at that pace.

1 - 5:57/182

2 - 6:13/187

3 - 6:07/186

0.1 - 5:55/189

NEW PR - 18:52

I ended up 4/123 OA and 1/14 in my AG. Won a nice $25 gift card to a popular burrito place, so I got to run for free. On top of all that, my buddy who's new to running (old HS soccer friend who we now have kids playing on the same team) ran a 21:30 for a 0:12 PR. :headbang:
:thumbup:

 
Awesome AAA! hoping my sons do the same

Swam over lunch. The short pool was closed so they opened the 50M pool. That was enough to convince me to go in, love the long course pool. Just 2300m, felt good and pushed it just a little. Calves cramped again. At some point I hope to get past that.
My recommendation - swim in the morning. I have the same cramping problem if I get into my day and then swim, whether it's at lunch or in the evening. Cramp like crazy. I don't seem to have that problem in the morning, and I don't know why. Maybe my muscles are more relaxed then...maybe it's diet...don't know.

 
Awesome AAA! hoping my sons do the same

Swam over lunch. The short pool was closed so they opened the 50M pool. That was enough to convince me to go in, love the long course pool. Just 2300m, felt good and pushed it just a little. Calves cramped again. At some point I hope to get past that.
Was the cramping on the heels of a big workout or was this the first thing you did today? If this wasn't the result of muscle exhaustion I'd say you need to look into some ankle stretches - you're working too hard to keep the toes pointed and it's cramping you up.

 
Hang 10 said:
tri-man 47 said:
This is one of the main things I don't like about marathons.
Too many posts by Hang 10? :oldunsure:
Where'd it go? As you had stated, I don't like that the body adjusts to the slow marathon pacing and gets too settled into that pace.
Yeah, I remember once arrogantly saying that I can't even run slow enough to run a 10 minute mile. It's gotten pretty easy to run 10 minute miles these days.

 
Awesome AAA! hoping my sons do the same

Swam over lunch. The short pool was closed so they opened the 50M pool. That was enough to convince me to go in, love the long course pool. Just 2300m, felt good and pushed it just a little. Calves cramped again. At some point I hope to get past that.
Was the cramping on the heels of a big workout or was this the first thing you did today? If this wasn't the result of muscle exhaustion I'd say you need to look into some ankle stretches - you're working too hard to keep the toes pointed and it's cramping you up.
Big workout? Not this week. Ran 4 easy yesterday. Mowed the lawn this morning so maybe that impacted it? Most likely it's the afternoon vs morning along with working hard to point my toes.

 
RACE SUMMARY

Swim 00:41:53 81 / 643

T1: 3:33

Bike 02:41:40 20.78 mph 68 / 429

T2: 4:32

Run 02:02:21 09:20/mi 68 / 485

Overall 05:33:59 68 / 485 (2,157 athletes total finished)

Training: I thought training was going fairly well, considering everything, time commitments, work's been busier, etc. The usual concerns we mortals face when competing in these events. I had even done quite a few afternoon runs with the idea that building up resistance to heat would benefit me on race day. Averaged about 10 hours per week over the last month, with 10 brick sessions. No swim bricks, and I hadn't swam as much as I probably should, but I figured that was the shortest leg anyway and I'd manage.

In hindsight I don't know that I would change much in training - maybe a few more bricks with both legs at a higher intensity and I'd swim more.

Taper week: cut the time in half, more run than bike and only one swim day. Again, lack of swimming.

Nutrition the day before: it's always a challenge to rest and stay hydrated the day before these things. First, it was hot, second I took my 6 yo to the convention and had him help me set up my bike at T1. Then took him to lunch and hung out for a bit. We did get ice cream, but I don't think that hurt. Chicken and pasta for dinner, drank one beer. Overall, other than bringing better food with me to the convention and setup, wouldn't change anything.

Morning: got up at 315, ate an avocado and eggs, drank a cup of coffee on the way up. Stopped at a gas station to poop. Nothing out of the ordinary here. Drank some water throughout, feeling pretty good.

Warm-up: I didn't run or bike at all, but did some leg swings and swam a little while the pro field started. I don't like to do too much here except stay loose as I figure the swim is sort of a warmup. Granted, the first few minutes is always a mosh pit but I've never had a problem there.

Swim: Start at 7:44am. opted to go without wetsuit due to the 44 minute delay. Figured I wanted to get going instead of sitting around. Went slower than I wanted but expected this. Wearing an “All-world” swim cap, I figured people would think I was a good swimmer and try to use me to draft off of. So I started mid pack to indicate that I did not expect to be really fast (don't want people climbing over me immediately). I was ready for the starting chaos (for those who haven't done a tri, picture an aquatic mosh pit with people climbing over each other). No problem there. My focus for the swim was long pulls and staying in the wake, take the straightest line possible around – this had been a problem for me in the past as I tend to get slightly off course. I was surprised to see that I never steered far off this time, and felt good throughout. Within a few minutes we had already caught up to the white cap swimmers, the 50-55 yo females, which just added to the chaos. Swam around a few, no real problems until I pulled my right arm up and found it hooked with another swimmer. Usually this isn't a problem as we both just slide off each other, but this person must have been doing backstroke or had funky form as our arms were locked. I spun around, looked at her, we made eye contact, I asked “you ok?” she seemed to be, so off I went. Frankly I was surprised at how good I felt throughout. On the third side (the route was a triangle), my left calf cramped a little, which was expected, so I just stopped kicking hard and kept going, it faded quickly. Got to the end, felt great, looked at my watch which I didn't put on timer, just left the clock showing, 8:25. Did horrible math and thought “nice! 31 minutes!” It wouldn't be until halfway through the bike that I realized it was actually 41 minutes. :bag:

T1: jogged to my bike, saw my run partner who came out to support a few of us, gave a high five and proceeded to the bike. Decided to wear my gloves as on long rides the comfort is better – my aerobars aren't taped, so without gloves I'm grabbing metal and over a couple hours, that gets tiring.

Bike: The course starts off on a bumpy hill which is congested, so it was slow go at first - Didn't break 3 minutes / mile until mile 4. Which sort of works, giving us time to warmup a bit before kicking it into high gear. I don't like the first few miles this year though as they added a turn at mile 1, taking you uphill to a turnaround where you barely have room to turn but it's a tight group. The organizer had briefed the 5 bike length rule (no drafting) which everyone violated for the first few miles, there was no way around it. Pretty uneventful for the first 20 minutes. Got going on the main road, and ended up playing leap frog with a few guys for about 7 miles. Mile 8 was fun, slightly downhill and averaged 31mph. The course is rolling hills, not too many monster hills, with a total of 2800 feet climbing. I started off with 2 cliff bars and 2 bottles of perpetuum, ended up eating both but only drinking one bottle. At the first aid station, mile 14, I tossed my empty bottle and took a gatorade perform. I ended up drinking two bottles of gatorade perform and the one bottle of perpetuum. The ride felt good, I wasn't overly concerned with speed but went with feel, pushing around 7/10, until I crossed over 40 miles at 1:55 and realized I should be able to break 2:40 which was my goal. HR was in the low 150s throughout, which I had planned on keeping lower, but it felt fine and I was hitting my nutrition and speed goals, so I went with it. At around mile 41 I passed a guy I had been around most of the day who had popped his chain off, yelled “that SUCKS!” as I sped by. Little did I know... at mile 45 a car pulled out in front of me, between me and the guy I was thinking about passing. As he blocked my way around but was going at a decent speed, I figured I'd stay behind him. A couple minutes later he must have realized there's a race going on and the road was blocked off, as he suddenly pulled over to the shoulder, almost clipping me. I cussed at him as I went around. A couple miles later there was a female cyclist on the road, face down, in the opposite lane where cars were still allowed. (would hear later that she got back into the race and finished). Mile 50 comes, we hit a hill I remember hating last year, but I knew I could get up it and was on pace to break 2:40. Downshift, ***** ***** ***** – aw crap. Chain popped off as I was passing two people. First person kept going no problem, the 2nd person looks at me, and as I just passed her, she's on my right (illegal to pass on the right) she seems confused as I'm yelling at her to “go go GO!” then I say my chain fell off and she goes. Took about a minute to get the chain back on, but stopping on the bottom of a big hill after 50 miles SUCKS. Took me another minute to clip in and get going. The last 6 miles were uneventful, I might have pushed harder than I should have, but I wanted to finish.

T2: this is where the race goes downhill for me. I got to T2, and although I had scooped out my spot ahead of time, even sort of rehearsed from the bike entrance to the spot, somehow I couldn't find it. I ended up going back and forth twice before I located it. Got down, took my stuff off, and put my socks, shoes, running sunglasses and hat on. Realized a minute later I left my gloves on. Didn't want to go back so I put them on the ground near the trash, figuring maybe they'd still be there. At that point I realized I'm disoriented, somewhat dizzy, and felt like crap. No matter, off I go!

Run: First mile actually felt alright, like I could meet my goal still. Finished the first mile at a 7:17 pace, HR 158. But then the wheels came off. Mile 2 was at 8:24 and I started to feel my energy depleted. Miles 3 and 4 were worse, about a 9 minute pace and I wasn't getting anything back. Around mile 3 I realized I didn't have a 1:40 in me and started overthinking the fact that I was disoriented, figured I'd be better served by just keeping moving and not damaging myself too much. During mile 5 I stopped in an outhouse to pee, which took a couple minutes (it was clear) but when I left the outhouse, I had the weird feeling of body-capable, but brain-fried. I really don't know what would have happened had I kept pushing, maybe it would have worked out fine and I would have PR'd, or maybe I would have had heat-exhaustion and DNF'd. HR stayed below 160, which tells me that my body indeed was capable, but I was just mentally fried and exhausted.

Overall: happy with my bike, though I do think I have room to improve. But overall this was one of the more disappointing races I've done.

Then again, judging by the fact that my run and bike ranking were virtually identical, perhaps it isn't as bad as I thought - a lot of us faded hard.

 
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Great report FUBAR. As a guy who can't really swim (and once almost drowned in a river), the start of a tri simply terrifies me.


Bike: . I started off with 2 cliff bars and 2 bottles of perpetuum, ended up eating both but only drinking one bottle. At the first aid station, mile 14, I tossed my empty bottle and took a gatorade perform. I ended up drinking two bottles of gatorade perform and the one bottle of perpetuum.

HR was in the low 150s throughout, which I had planned on keeping lower, but it felt fine and I was hitting my nutrition and speed goals, so I went with it.

The last 6 miles were uneventful, I might have pushed harder than I should have, but I wanted to finish.

T2: At that point I realized I'm disoriented, somewhat dizzy, and felt like crap. No matter, off I go!

Run: First mile actually felt alright, like I could meet my goal still. Finished the first mile at a 7:17 pace, HR 158. But then the wheels came off. Mile 2 was at 8:24 and I started to feel my energy depleted. Miles 3 and 4 were worse, about a 9 minute pace and I wasn't getting anything back. Around mile 3 I realized I didn't have a 1:40 in me and started overthinking the fact that I was disoriented, figured I'd be better served by just keeping moving and not damaging myself too much. During mile 5 I stopped in an outhouse to pee, which took a couple minutes (it was clear) but when I left the outhouse, I had the weird feeling of body-capable, but brain-fried. I really don't know what would have happened had I kept pushing, maybe it would have worked out fine and I would have PR'd, or maybe I would have had heat-exhaustion and DNF'd. HR stayed below 160, which tells me that my body indeed was capable, but I was just mentally fried and exhausted.
I cherry picked a few pieces of your report here.....did you push too hard on the bike, just hard enough that what you thought was enough in terms of nutrition turned out not to be? I've experienced that kind of dizziness, low energy, and slight disorientation a few times, and I've always blamed it on sort of a bonk brain haze. More specifically unlike muscles which get to rely on a mix of fat and glucose, the brain relies solely on glucose (ketosis aside) and I think it starts to get wonky as levels get depleted. From your training it sounds like you are pretty fat adapted so your muscles were still good to go, but your noggin wasn't having it.

Just a thought. I'm still trying to figure out how to fuel effectively in long events.

 
SFBayDuck said:
I cherry picked a few pieces of your report here.....did you push too hard on the bike, just hard enough that what you thought was enough in terms of nutrition turned out not to be? I've experienced that kind of dizziness, low energy, and slight disorientation a few times, and I've always blamed it on sort of a bonk brain haze. More specifically unlike muscles which get to rely on a mix of fat and glucose, the brain relies solely on glucose (ketosis aside) and I think it starts to get wonky as levels get depleted. From your training it sounds like you are pretty fat adapted so your muscles were still good to go, but your noggin wasn't having it.

Just a thought. I'm still trying to figure out how to fuel effectively in long events.
I think you nailed it. Although I did use a gel with 30 minutes left on the bike, I probably should have used another. Or my honey mix which I didn't make.

I do wonder what would have happened had I kept my HR under 150 for the ride (probably would have been 2-3 minutes slower). But the heat might have made that almost irrelevant.

 
Today - ride

8 minute warm up

9 x 4 minutes hard, 4 ez

4 minute cool down

during the 5th hard interval, flat, hit over 40.3kph (25 mph) and 183 bpm

otherwise uneventful until I'm 4 miles from home and there's a cow standing in the middle of the road staring at me. I obviously slowed down and went around Elsie. should have taken a picture.

 
SFBayDuck said:
I cherry picked a few pieces of your report here.....did you push too hard on the bike, just hard enough that what you thought was enough in terms of nutrition turned out not to be? I've experienced that kind of dizziness, low energy, and slight disorientation a few times, and I've always blamed it on sort of a bonk brain haze. More specifically unlike muscles which get to rely on a mix of fat and glucose, the brain relies solely on glucose (ketosis aside) and I think it starts to get wonky as levels get depleted. From your training it sounds like you are pretty fat adapted so your muscles were still good to go, but your noggin wasn't having it.

Just a thought. I'm still trying to figure out how to fuel effectively in long events.
I think you nailed it. Although I did use a gel with 30 minutes left on the bike, I probably should have used another. Or my honey mix which I didn't make.

I do wonder what would have happened had I kept my HR under 150 for the ride (probably would have been 2-3 minutes slower). But the heat might have made that almost irrelevant.
and don't underestimate the heat/suck fying the brains and body a bit too, regardless of the nutrition plan.

do you feel like you followed your nutrition/hydration plan?

my last HIM went almost identically to yours- although I don't think mine was quite as hot/humid, I still suffered- identical times on the swim and bike, and then found myself going as best I could on the run. but where I'm usually just flying by people, there were people passing me. I also stopped to pee (used to normally pee while running) because I knew I was just blown up. fortunately for me, early on in the HM, somebody much slower than me from my tri-club passed me- got me pissed. made me remember I had just done full, and that this was cake- even in my state. turned up the gears and finished respectably. not saying this was an option for you- again, I'm sure my race was nowhere near as brutal temp-wise.

 
SFBayDuck said:
I cherry picked a few pieces of your report here.....did you push too hard on the bike, just hard enough that what you thought was enough in terms of nutrition turned out not to be? I've experienced that kind of dizziness, low energy, and slight disorientation a few times, and I've always blamed it on sort of a bonk brain haze. More specifically unlike muscles which get to rely on a mix of fat and glucose, the brain relies solely on glucose (ketosis aside) and I think it starts to get wonky as levels get depleted. From your training it sounds like you are pretty fat adapted so your muscles were still good to go, but your noggin wasn't having it.

Just a thought. I'm still trying to figure out how to fuel effectively in long events.
I think you nailed it. Although I did use a gel with 30 minutes left on the bike, I probably should have used another. Or my honey mix which I didn't make.

I do wonder what would have happened had I kept my HR under 150 for the ride (probably would have been 2-3 minutes slower). But the heat might have made that almost irrelevant.
and don't underestimate the heat/suck fying the brains and body a bit too, regardless of the nutrition plan.

do you feel like you followed your nutrition/hydration plan?

my last HIM went almost identically to yours- although I don't think mine was quite as hot/humid, I still suffered- identical times on the swim and bike, and then found myself going as best I could on the run. but where I'm usually just flying by people, there were people passing me. I also stopped to pee (used to normally pee while running) because I knew I was just blown up. fortunately for me, early on in the HM, somebody much slower than me from my tri-club passed me- got me pissed. made me remember I had just done full, and that this was cake- even in my state. turned up the gears and finished respectably. not saying this was an option for you- again, I'm sure my race was nowhere near as brutal temp-wise.
pretty much - except I intended to drink the 2nd perpetuum bottle during the 2nd hour. Instead I started drinking gatorade. Don't know how big a difference that made.

 
Ran a practice 10k today:

Mile 1 - 9:31

Mile 2 - 9:16

Mile 3 - 9:27

Mile 4 - 9:22

Mile 5 - 9:14

Mile 6 - 9:17

.2 - 1:52 (9:18 pace)

Total - 57:59 total. 9:21 pace overall.

First time in my life I've ever ran that far

 
Dropped my oldest son off just a little while ago for his first ever cross country practice. Hoping he likes it - I plan to encourage him to at least do all the summer training and then decide in the fall if he wants to tryout for the team. He's got the body type and the mentality to be a runner, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that he likes it. There were a couple of HS girls that appeared to be out there to run so maybe that will encourage him.
So, he puked twice :lmao:

I give him credit though - he said he stopped for a little while and then kept running. Made me proud - although he said he wasn't sure he wants to go back. We had a good discussion and I explained he has to ease in to it (his coach told him the same) and he can't expect to run as fast as the other team members who have been running for longer. Good news is I think I have him convinced to keep going for now. They are doing a trail run tomorrow so hoping he has a better day.
Update - he sat out yesterday after the bad first day but I was ok with it - he had helped my BIL lay sod for half a day Wednesday so he was beat. We talked and he was still skeptical - hard to convince him but we had a good talk. Thankfully the coach emailed me - said take Friday off and run a couple miles this weekend and come back Monday. I think that energized him. He and I got up at 7 this morning and did 3 miles together - it was a blast. He's a good runner - was running an easy 7:30 minute mile pace, he just needs time to develop a base. He was telling all the grandparents about it so for now I think he's hooked.

We had been talking about doing a sprint tri this fall so I need to get us signed up to provide extra motivation for both of us.

3 miles this morning - 750 yd in the pool this afternoon - several adult beverages drank. Great day.

 
Duck (and others) - I need a recommendation for a hydration pack for trail running. I've been carrying handheld for a while now but think it might benefit me to move up to a back pack.

Looking athttp://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OXPC056/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1433678767&sr=8-1&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011π=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=hydration+pack&dpPl=1&dpID=41GCudyoAaL&ref=plSrch, I don't need an expensive one but something easy to clean, will last a few hours, preferably with a small pocket or two.

Eta: nice 36 minute run this morning, 142bpm, 7:52 pace.

 
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Decent training week. Tuesday's 5K was obviously the highlight of the week.

Mon: 6mi recovery @ 8:56/137.

Tue: 5K race @ 18:52/185. :excited:

Wed: 10mi MLR @ 8:26/147. Legs were dead, but manageable.

Thu: 10mi Recovery~ 6mi AM @ 9:14/134/4mi PM @ 9:09/137.

Fri: 10im MLR @ 8:13/148. Had that tired but strong feeling. Legs definitely feeling it.

Sat: off

Sun: 16mi LR @ 8:15/148. Felt really sluggish to start, but 2nd hour felt pretty good. Gorgeous day, but the sun was warm - I regretted sleeping in.

55mi for the week.

 
Duck (and others) - I need a recommendation for a hydration pack for trail running. I've been carrying handheld for a while now but think it might benefit me to move up to a back pack.

Looking athttp://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OXPC056/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1433678767&sr=8-1&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011π=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=hydration+pack&dpPl=1&dpID=41GCudyoAaL&ref=plSrch, I don't need an expensive one but something easy to clean, will last a few hours, preferably with a small pocket or two.

Eta: nice 36 minute run this morning, 142bpm, 7:52 pace.
I've never heard of that brand, but the reviews look pretty good and at that price it's worth trying.

The two I have are probably overkill for what you're looking for. I have the first version of the Ultimate Direction AK Race Vest and use it most of the time. I like that I can choose to use a 1.5L bladder in the back and the pockets in the front for gels, phone, etc, or I can just use the bottles in the front. But at $100 (without a bladder) it doesn't fall into the cheap category by any means. But it's probably the one I see the most at trail races.

Nathan is also really popular. I have an old pack that still use sometimes because it can hold a 2L bladder, has a pretty big zipper pouch on the back and pockets on the front as well. I use it mostly for longer training runs when I won't have access to refill water or I need to carry more nutrition or gear. It gets kind of hot on my back though, so I've been using it less and less.

I also have a Nathan waist pack, but I rarely use that anymore. But when I do it works great as a way to carry a second bottle to swap out with a handheld.

 
When you guys are running the longer runs, say 10 miles and longer, do you typically carry water or a drink with you? I tend to take something when I know I will be out longer than an hour or so, but since the bulk of my training for this marathon will be this summer, I need to really think this through.

And what are you carrying it with? I saw the post above about the Nathan waist pack. Not sure if that's what I need. Right now I just carry a bottle of water in my hand, but don't really like carrying something.

 
When you guys are running the longer runs, say 10 miles and longer, do you typically carry water or a drink with you? I tend to take something when I know I will be out longer than an hour or so, but since the bulk of my training for this marathon will be this summer, I need to really think this through.

And what are you carrying it with? I saw the post above about the Nathan waist pack. Not sure if that's what I need. Right now I just carry a bottle of water in my hand, but don't really like carrying something.
I use the Nathan Triangle that Duck links. I'll wear it even for short runs because I like at least a swig every mile or two plus I clip my iPod onto the belt. 22 oz. isn't enough for a long run if it's hot but my loops are between 5 and 8 and I don't mind refilling.

 
If possible prefer to go out and hide fluids/GUs along the route before I run so I don't have to carry anything.

 
Check the OP for a list of common hydration setups. I personally use the Amphipod belt and will carry between 24-40oz depending on the heat and length of my run.

Today's was a tad warm and I carried 24oz. It was barely enough.

 
When you guys are running the longer runs, say 10 miles and longer, do you typically carry water or a drink with you? I tend to take something when I know I will be out longer than an hour or so, but since the bulk of my training for this marathon will be this summer, I need to really think this through.

And what are you carrying it with? I saw the post above about the Nathan waist pack. Not sure if that's what I need. Right now I just carry a bottle of water in my hand, but don't really like carrying something.
I've just been carrying a disposable water bottle which I reuse more than I should.

I do have a handheld bottle carrier I haven't used since January's 50k and a waist belt I haven't used in years.

But yeah, I carry water on most runs over 5 miles (often for shorter too) in the summer and anything over 8 in the winter.

 

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