Ran a 10k - Official Thread (12 Viewers)

[FUBAR]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I've hit the training wall. My legs are dead and my easy runs are getting slower. I have run consecutive PR's for weekly mileage, so some fatigue is to be expected. But I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now. Stick to plan or reduce to something a little more manageable. Thoughts?

TIA

how many runs have you done which are slower? Same HR?

Maybe step back a week, go big the next, and see where that takes you?

 

[Hang 10]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I've hit the training wall. My legs are dead and my easy runs are getting slower. I have run consecutive PR's for weekly mileage, so some fatigue is to be expected. But I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now. Stick to plan or reduce to something a little more manageable. Thoughts?

TIA

Take a step back week this week and reassess next week. Something in the range of 40-45 should help you quite a bit.

How are you sleeping? Any chance to sneak in a nap or two?

I'm sleeping around the same as usual but recently it feels a little more broken. I'll wake up a couple hours before the alarm and have to fall back asleep. I probably get around 7 hours lately.

 

[Hang 10]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I've hit the training wall. My legs are dead and my easy runs are getting slower. I have run consecutive PR's for weekly mileage, so some fatigue is to be expected. But I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now. Stick to plan or reduce to something a little more manageable. Thoughts?

TIA

how many runs have you done which are slower? Same HR?

Maybe step back a week, go big the next, and see where that takes you?

Yeah, same heart rate for the most part because that's what's determining my pace. I just feel like my heart rate jumps up a whole lot faster than it used to. A month ago, a lot of my runs would start out in the 120's for the first mile and then gradually increase. Lately it's like before I blink I see 140.

Hard to say how many runs exactly. It's felt like all of them the past 2 weeks.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Hang 10, I agree with Ned about the recovery week.

My only other thought is wondering how much of it might be mental instead of physical. You added lots of miles while slowing your pace way down. I'd be surprised if that didn't feel like a grind. Perhaps you could add a little more variety? Personally I need to frequently test myself with tempos and fast finish long runs to prove to myself that I still have that gear. I believe a mentally confident Juxt runs much better than a doubting neurotic Juxt.

 

[FUBAR]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I've hit the training wall. My legs are dead and my easy runs are getting slower. I have run consecutive PR's for weekly mileage, so some fatigue is to be expected. But I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now. Stick to plan or reduce to something a little more manageable. Thoughts?

TIA

how many runs have you done which are slower? Same HR?

Maybe step back a week, go big the next, and see where that takes you?

Yeah, same heart rate for the most part because that's what's determining my pace. I just feel like my heart rate jumps up a whole lot faster than it used to. A month ago, a lot of my runs would start out in the 120's for the first mile and then gradually increase. Lately it's like before I blink I see 140.

Hard to say how many runs exactly. It's felt like all of them the past 2 weeks.

yep, like Ned (and Jxt agrees), take the down week.

EP talked about cycling your weeks a while back. if you were to follow, the next week would be an easy / recovery week, then jump back to a heavy week, decrease a bit the next and the next after that; recovery... a nice 4 week cycle. I think I'll use this concept once I get into 50k training.

 

[Hang 10]

Hang 10, I agree with Ned about the recovery week.

My only other thought is wondering how much of it might be mental instead of physical. You added lots of miles while slowing your pace way down. I'd be surprised if that didn't feel like a grind. Perhaps you could add a little more variety? Personally I need to frequently test myself with tempos and fast finish long runs to prove to myself that I still have that gear. I believe a mentally confident Juxt runs much better than a doubting neurotic Juxt.

Yeah, it has been a grind. The first 6 weeks of this plan haven't had much in the way of workouts because I imagine that this is the base phase. It's probably a good thing it didn't have too much intensity though, since I'm going into unknown mileage territory and still have remained relatively healthy. But yeah, it sucks running slow all the time. I would like to run fast more often but lately my legs feel so crappy, it's hard to imagine hitting a decent pace anymore.

I do agree with taking a down week though. I know at the least I need that. Today was supposed to be double though. Should I stick to that plan? Is 10 mile run easier than a double with a 4 & a 6?

 

[pbm107]

I do agree with taking a down week though. I know at the least I need that. Today was supposed to be double though. Should I stick to that plan? Is 10 mile run easier than a double with a 4 & a 6?

Do whatever you feel like doing. I agree with the others that a cutback week sounds like a good idea. You have been consistent with your training since about April, so you have earned the right to take an easy week if you need it. The summer training can be a grind and unfortunately you didn't seem get any of the good weather a lot of us got this past weekend. Once you see some cooler weather you will start to see the payoff of all this work.

One thing I noticed in reviewing some of your recent runs is that you seem to be trying to keep your HR under 150. With your max HR being 205+, I think you could bump that up to 155 or just ignore it for a few runs.

 

[FUBAR]

Hang 10, I agree with Ned about the recovery week.

My only other thought is wondering how much of it might be mental instead of physical. You added lots of miles while slowing your pace way down. I'd be surprised if that didn't feel like a grind. Perhaps you could add a little more variety? Personally I need to frequently test myself with tempos and fast finish long runs to prove to myself that I still have that gear. I believe a mentally confident Juxt runs much better than a doubting neurotic Juxt.

Yeah, it has been a grind. The first 6 weeks of this plan haven't had much in the way of workouts because I imagine that this is the base phase. It's probably a good thing it didn't have too much intensity though, since I'm going into unknown mileage territory and still have remained relatively healthy. But yeah, it sucks running slow all the time. I would like to run fast more often but lately my legs feel so crappy, it's hard to imagine hitting a decent pace anymore.

I do agree with taking a down week though. I know at the least I need that. Today was supposed to be double though. Should I stick to that plan? Is 10 mile run easier than a double with a 4 & a 6?

just to recap, where were you before this phase and where are you now? Weekly total would be great to see.

I'm asking "for a friend" who is considering doing something stupid in March.

 

[Ned]

Forget the doubles unless you're feeling on top of your game. I did a lot of them for the first 2/3 of my cycle and think they're "sneaky" hard. While on the surface they seem easier, and what Pfitz says is true, I found they wore me out. If you do doubles, slow it waaaay down.

I think the moment I ditched the doubles is the moment my training performances turned around. FWIW

 

[worrierking]

Thanks everybody for the nice thoughts. It's a great bunch in here.

I ran 4.9 this morning and it felt good. I was not distracted by worries about what was happening with my mom.

I ran out of "Likes" so I will have to give out a few more tomorrow.

Funeral is Thursday in Lake Charles, then we go to St. Louis to bury her next Monday.

 

[El Floppo]

Hang 10, I agree with Ned about the recovery week.

My only other thought is wondering how much of it might be mental instead of physical. You added lots of miles while slowing your pace way down. I'd be surprised if that didn't feel like a grind. Perhaps you could add a little more variety? Personally I need to frequently test myself with tempos and fast finish long runs to prove to myself that I still have that gear. I believe a mentally confident Juxt runs much better than a doubting neurotic Juxt.

Yeah, it has been a grind. The first 6 weeks of this plan haven't had much in the way of workouts because I imagine that this is the base phase. It's probably a good thing it didn't have too much intensity though, since I'm going into unknown mileage territory and still have remained relatively healthy. But yeah, it sucks running slow all the time. I would like to run fast more often but lately my legs feel so crappy, it's hard to imagine hitting a decent pace anymore.

I do agree with taking a down week though. I know at the least I need that. Today was supposed to be double though. Should I stick to that plan? Is 10 mile run easier than a double with a 4 & a 6?

disclaimer: 10 year old info coming your way...

all of my tri-workout plans included a down week every month... 3 weeks on, ramping up- 1 week down. rinse repeat.

I don't even know what plan you're on or what you're training for- but do you have a regular down week in your schedule? I remember getting to a point where I couldn't wait for those...

 

[El Floppo]

sorry to hear about your mom WK.

 

[Nigel]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

 

[tri-man 47]

disclaimer: 10 year old info coming your way...

I thought it was going to be a running update about Floppo Jr.

 

[Hang 10]

So, I kinda took Juxt's and PBM's advice today and combined it. I ran my afternoon run without looking at my heart rate and then after feeling pretty decent, I just decided to do an impromptu workout. I didn't really have the intention at first but when I ran a sub 8 minute mile into the wind, I thought it might be fun to see how fast I could run with a tail wind. Before I knew it I was cruising at a 6:30 pace and faster. Felt GREAT at first. My tired legs could move a lot better than I thought they could. Eventually the heat (SI was 155+) got to me and instead of 3 hard miles, I ran 2 hard, took a 60 second break and then ran 1 more.

Splits were:

6:42 (182)

6:19 (195)

6:17 (195)

Glad I never checked my HR during the run because it might have freaked me out to see 203 today! Overall, I ran 6.5 miles at 7:22 (178). It's interesting that my heart rate was so high and while I was hurting pretty good at mile 2, it never felt that bad. It definitely didn't feel as bad as some of my races. It's got me questioning the accuracy of my new monitor at this point. Who knows? Maybe it's right and my max is higher than I still know.

Anyway, I kinda needed this. It was a nice reminder that this mileage hasn't sapped all my speed.

 

[FUBAR]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

Not to scare you but my top paralegal went through this a couple years ago. It's still a problem for him. While he's still active, he doesn't run any more. He can still hike and play sports but not at a high intensity.

You have seen a doctor, right?

 

[Hang 10]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

You gonna schedule that ablation?

 

[AAABatteries]

LOL @ thread title. Technically this will be my third tri but the first one in 9 years - just hoping not to die.

 

[Sand]

Great Stuff, Chief.

Congrats Fubar!

Mom died peacefully this morning. I had the honor of being right beside her when she went.

I'm going for a run tomorrow morning and I'll be thinking of her. Cool front is coming through tonight.

Sincerest condolences WK.

 

[Sand]

Compare this to last year, while I didn't do an Olympic, it was an international so almost the same thing. Keeping in mind, I had been training for IM Maryland so I was in better endurance shape and much stronger on the bike. I was probably more fatigued too.

Swim - 2 minutes faster (but there was a current which we went against and then with) I'll call this a win but it's hard to judge

Bike - 1:10 for 40k (21.1mph) vs. 1:16 for 45k (21.9 mph) slower this year

Run - 79 seconds or 13 seconds per mile faster.

Overall, I'll call it a good day and race. Plenty to learn from it but I paced it right, nutrition seems to have worked. I don't think I could have been much faster.

Nice race! my buddy finished a minute in front of you, so I have a good idea how I'd stack up here. You're a running beast, BTW.

You reminded me that I had a full wipeout last week on my bike when I went out after rain. There is a wooden bridge that is essentialy the turnaround point for a there and back route I do (ie. furthest point from my house). I was going normal speed/ slow since I was making a turn. As soon as I got on that thing, WHOOP went the wheels from under me with no warning. My hand and knee took the worst of it. Briefly messed up the tire alignment. That bridge felt like walking on ice as I was adjusting my bike. Scary.

Add white lines and railroad tracks to the "ice" you gotta watch out for...

LOL @ thread title. Technically this will be my third tri but the first one in 9 years - just hoping not to die.

LOL virgin reborn.

----

On my end the SI was like 130 tonight. In August. It was out-#######-standing out there today. A really nice 37 mile ride tonight.

 

[Nigel]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

Not to scare you but my top paralegal went through this a couple years ago. It's still a problem for him. While he's still active, he doesn't run any more. He can still hike and play sports but not at a high intensity. You have seen a doctor, right?

Yes it's a known heart condition that I'm on medication to control, mulling a procedure that could permanently fix it but in the meantime I'm cleared to run when it's beating right which is most of the time.

 

[Nigel]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

You gonna schedule that ablation?

Just scheduled it for sometime soon after my 10/25 HM, exact date to be determined. Timing should work well, assuming I'll need some downtime afterwards, then full strength to start Boston training.

Heart is still out of whack this morning but after talking to doc decided to give it one more day before going for the cardioversion. I could go now but the wait could be all day and I wouldn't be able to eat/drink anything in meantime. I'm first in the queue tomorrow morning if I need it.

 

[Hang 10]

Yesterday was a planned off day, then went into afib around this time last night. Not a big deal, assumed I'd wake up thi morning back in rhythm. Woke up at 5:30 to run but was stll in it. Went to work but cut out at noon, came home and slept four hours, but still in it. Just took my resting HR on my phone app and its 152. Granted it's just a 20 second snap shot, over a whole minute it's not that high consistently, but damn it's uncomfortable. I'll be shocked if it's not cleared up by tomorrow morning but if not I'll call the doc and go get cardioverted. It's been a great few months with just a few shorts bouts of it so I kind of shelved the ablation plan but I need to get on it. Can't imagine waking up the morning of a race I'd been training for and having to scratch because of this bull####.

You gonna schedule that ablation?

Just scheduled it for sometime soon after my 10/25 HM, exact date to be determined. Timing should work well, assuming I'll need some downtime afterwards, then full strength to start Boston training.

Heart is still out of whack this morning but after talking to doc decided to give it one more day before going for the cardioversion. I could go now but the wait could be all day and I wouldn't be able to eat/drink anything in meantime. I'm first in the queue tomorrow morning if I need it.

Dang, as bad as it ever got for me it only last 30 minutes to an hour or so....mine was 210+ though. Still can't imagine having that elevated heart rate for more than a day. Hang in there though. Glad you're going to get that sucker fixed.

 

[Brony]

Did a relatively fast mile during a four mile run yesterday. Leg felt great during the run and most impressively had the least post-run pain I've had in some time. Today my right leg is 98% good. Amazing. Hope this continues. :crossesfingers:

 

[Juxtatarot]

Did a relatively fast mile during a four mile run yesterday. Leg felt great during the run and most impressively had the least post-run pain I've had in some time. Today my right leg is 98% good. Amazing. Hope this continues. :crossesfingers:

Just take it easy for a week and a half.

 

[worrierking]

Nice 5 miler this morning. Temps in the 60s for the first time since May. I forgot my HR strap and I would have liked to see the difference the cooler weather made.

Careful with that ticker, Nigel. Good luck.

 

[Brony]

Did a relatively fast mile during a four mile run yesterday. Leg felt great during the run and most impressively had the least post-run pain I've had in some time. Today my right leg is 98% good. Amazing. Hope this continues. :crossesfingers:

Just take it easy for a week and a half.

Are you kidding? Obviously the fast mile is what helped the leg. I need to do more and more fast runs.

 

[Gator Shawn]

164 SI right now, About to try to run my 5K course.

My son is doing really well in week 2 of the Couch 2 5K. I run with him every other night, then I run or bike the other days/nights.

 

[ChiefD]

164 SI right now, About to try to run my 5K course.

My son is doing really week in week 2 of the Couch 2 5K. I run with him every other night, then I run or bike the other days/nights.

Oof. Just run it slow. That's way too high to try and run that fast.

 

[Gator Shawn]

164 SI right now, About to try to run my 5K course.

My son is doing really week in week 2 of the Couch 2 5K. I run with him every other night, then I run or bike the other days/nights.

Oof. Just run it slow. That's way too high to try and run that fast.

Fast? ####, nothing about me is fast now.

https://www.strava.com/activities/378053336/overview

First 1M was a PR on Strava, but my ### was kicked from there forward, I was barely running at walking speed.

 

[Gator Shawn]

Any of you guys doing to 10+ miles at 7 minute paces, have you been running all your life? Any of you ever let yourself get really fat and out of shape and work your way to this level of running?

 

[El Floppo]

Any of you guys doing to 10+ miles at 7 minute paces, have you been running all your life? Any of you ever let yourself get really fat and out of shape and work your way to this level of running?

I was a soccer player (div 1 college) until gradschool in my mid 20s. would regularly run 7ish (but always 7+) 5-7 miles. Could do 2miles at sub-12 minutes- all out, nothing left at the end.

essentially sedentary for 10 years until my mid 30s when I started doing tris. I actually started running faster in my tris than I ever did as a soccer player... whether it was bike "warm-up" or the lack of start/stop/lateral or the revised tri-specific stride, I dunno. But I didn't start running regular sub 7s until then.

 

[FUBAR]

it was almost cold this morning with 58 degrees, about a 110 SI.

 

[Hang 10]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

 

[FUBAR]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

I've been going by the zones shown by my test.

 

[Hang 10]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

I've been going by the zones shown by my test.

What test? Explain.

 

[MAC_32]

Any of you guys doing to 10+ miles at 7 minute paces, have you been running all your life? Any of you ever let yourself get really fat and out of shape and work your way to this level of running?

I ran a 4:34 mile and a 16:55 5k in high school.I did some damage in college, but i had an active job and maintained enough exercise to stay in reasonable shape. Then I took a desk job and gained 30 (bad) pounds in 6 months. It took about a year to get it all back, but once I did I've maintained since.

That said, I don't put in the miles some of these maniacs do, but...maybe I will some day.

 

[beer 30]

Great Stuff, Chief.

Congrats Fubar!

Mom died peacefully this morning. I had the honor of being right beside her when she went.

I'm going for a run tomorrow morning and I'll be thinking of her. Cool front is coming through tonight.

Sincerest condolences WK.

Sorry to hear WK, condolences & prayers for you & the family

 

[Ned]

Any of you guys doing to 10+ miles at 7 minute paces, have you been running all your life? Any of you ever let yourself get really fat and out of shape and work your way to this level of running?

I was a mediocre sprinter in HS, then did the usual american tour of college + marriage + kids = +53lbs. Lost the 53# between 2010 and 2012. My marathons have gone 4:42, 4:05, 3:31, 3:32, 3:09 between 2011 and 2014.

 

[Ned]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

His ranges are far too broad, IMO. If I let myself run my MLR/LR at 145-164, I'd burn out quickly. You also have to remember that he basically advocates that each MLR/LR be a fast finish type of run, so that upper end of the HR range may be covering that.

Given your heart history I'm leery that you fit into anything considered as normal ranges.

FWIW, this is what I train with (constantly tweaking as I learn more):

Recovery: < 67% (recently made decision to go much lower than previous)

MLR/LR: 70-75%

GA (no fly zone): 75-80%

MP: 80-87%

LT: 85-91%

VO2max: >91%

 

[Juxtatarot]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

Don't overthink it. Your body knows what "easy" is. Similarly, your body tells you when you're reaching lactate threshold. Trust your body, not a mathematical calculation. I like analyzing my my heart rate data but I'd never be a slave to it. We've talked about backing into training zones based on results and how you feel. Everyone's zones can be different and they can change over time.

 

[Ned]

Heart rate guys, do you use just strict percentage of your max or use one of those heart rate reserve formulas? My run yesterday really has me spinning about what my perception of "easy" is when I'm not checking my monitor. Thinking I need to recalculate my zones. Also, it was interesting to find Pfitzinger's ideas about the proper training zones since I'm following his plan. I was surprised to read that he had long runs between 75-85%. I guess I've typically been on the low end of that. Nice to know that I got a lot more freedom to run faster when I feel the need.

Don't overthink it. Your body knows what "easy" is. Similarly, your body tells you when you're reaching lactate threshold. Trust your body, not a mathematical calculation. I like analyzing my my heart rate data but I'd never be a slave to it. We've talked about backing into training zones based on results and how you feel. Everyone's zones can be different and they can change over time.

I agree, its easy to get lost in the numbers. I'm not sure everyone knows what LT feels like, though....

And yep, it definitely changes over time. I've been training by HR for 4 years now and I'm still tweaking as I've learned more about my body.

I'm going to be honest, I'm concerned Hang10. You were just posting about feeling like you're overtraining, but now you're speeding up your runs? Are you going to run less mileage as a result?

 

[Nigel]

Heart slipped back into sinus rythym last night around 8 so I doged the scheduled shock treatment this morning.

6M this morning 7:56/137. After three days off I figured my legs would feel great but they really didn't, took longer than usual to get loose. And my feet felt like bricks, definitely overdue for new shoes. I'd planned to run an easy 5, having to get back to the house in time to drive my freshman daughter to her first XC practice, but decided after the first couple to go 6 so picked it up a little.

Strava is kind of bugging me with their distance tracking. I ran 6.09 this morning and per usual they rounded down to 6 even. On my Saturday run I went 5.04 but Strava had me at 4.9. #### you Strava! In both cases they added the extra 20-30 seconds onto the time for my first mile, which I hadn't noticed before but maybe that's where it's always gone? So today's 8:28 first mile (as reported on the TomTom site) shows up as 8:55.

There's a 5 mile race tomorrow evening at 6:30 in Hingham, a pit stop on the route I take to the beach house. Working on a plan to stop off and run that on my way down. Would be good to get another data point to figure out a reasonable HM goal pace.

 

[Hang 10]

Yeah, I found this yesterday and this seem to fit me a little better than what I was trying to do lately:

(based on a max of 203 and a resting of 40)

Long, slow runs, easy or recovery runs ~ 60-70% 138 – 154

Training in this zone improves the ability of your heart to pump blood and improve the muscles’ ability to utilize oxygen. The body becomes more efficient at feeding the working muscles, and learns to metabolise fat as a source of fuel.

70-80% 154 – 170 ~ Aerobic zone or "target heart rate zone"

Most effective for overall cardiovascular fitness. Increases your cardio-respitory capacity: that is, the your ability to transport oxygenated blood to the muscle cells and carbon dioxide away from the cells. Also effective for increasing overall muscle strength.

80-90% 170 – 187 ~ Anaerobic zone

The point at which the body cannot remove lactic acid as quickly as it is produced is called the lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold. It generally occurs at about 80-88% of the Heart Rate Reserve. Training in this zone helps to increase the lactate threshold, which improves performance. Training in this zone is hard: your muscles are tired, your breathing is heavy.

90-100% 187 – 203 ~ VO2 max "Red line zone"

You should only train in this zone if you re very fit, and only for very short periods of time. Lactic acid develops quickly as you are operating in oxygen debt to the muscles The value of training in this zone is you can increase your fast twitch muscle fibers which increase speed.

Now, I don't think I need to run to the high end of each range but today I gave myself around 10 more BPM to play with on my easy run and it felt pretty good. I tried to stay at or under 160 and ran 10 miles @ 8:22 (157). That felt much more natural to me.

 

[Hang 10]

I'm going to be honest, I'm concerned Hang10. You were just posting about feeling like you're overtraining, but now you're speeding up your runs? Are you going to run less mileage as a result?

I'm starting to think that the fatigue I was feeling was more mental than physical. Sure, I was definitely physically tired but more than that I was starting lose my confidence. I have never really ever doubted myself until recently. It's exhausting to check your heart rate and obsess about 1-5 bpm for a 2 1/2 hour run. Having a bit more freedom on easy days has got me feeling a bit more refreshed.

I'm not sure I'm going to dial back the mileage a ton. Still taking this week down. Probably going to end up with around 45-50 miles. After that I'm probably going to try to get back to 60 and see how it feels. If it still seems too much like a grind, I'll probably finish my training with the Pfitz 55 plan.

 

[pbm107]

Hang10 that is great that you found a pace and HR that you seem comfortable with. 157 sounds about right to me considering your max is likely greater than 203. My max is 195 and when I was in your stage of running I average around 146.

For me my HR profile tends be very similar to Ned's, except I tend be a lazier runner and fall on the lower end of the range.

 

[Hang 10]

Hang10 that is great that you found a pace and HR that you seem comfortable with. 157 sounds about right to me considering your max is likely greater than 203. My max is 195 and when I was in your stage of running I average around 146.

For me my HR profile tends be very similar to Ned's, except I tend be a lazier runner and fall on the lower end of the range.

Yeah, I think staying under at or under a 160 sounds about right to me on an easy run. I figure that way I'll probably end up with an average of 155-157. It's funny that doesn't sound like a lot more BPM but it's probably about 30 seconds less a mile, which mentally is huge.

I wish I could lazily run like you!

 

[pbm107]

Hang10 that is great that you found a pace and HR that you seem comfortable with. 157 sounds about right to me considering your max is likely greater than 203. My max is 195 and when I was in your stage of running I average around 146.

For me my HR profile tends be very similar to Ned's, except I tend be a lazier runner and fall on the lower end of the range.

Yeah, I think staying under at or under a 160 sounds about right to me on an easy run. I figure that way I'll probably end up with an average of 155-157. It's funny that doesn't sound like a lot more BPM but it's probably about 30 seconds less a mile, which mentally is huge.

I wish I could lazily run like you!

I have read recently that 1 beat difference is about 3 sec/mile. By no means do I think this relationship is linear, but for me it seems to line up fairly well.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I'm going to be honest, I'm concerned Hang10. You were just posting about feeling like you're overtraining, but now you're speeding up your runs? Are you going to run less mileage as a result?

I'm starting to think that the fatigue I was feeling was more mental than physical. Sure, I was definitely physically tired but more than that I was starting lose my confidence. I have never really ever doubted myself until recently. It's exhausting to check your heart rate and obsess about 1-5 bpm for a 2 1/2 hour run. Having a bit more freedom on easy days has got me feeling a bit more refreshed.

I'm not sure I'm going to dial back the mileage a ton. Still taking this week down. Probably going to end up with around 45-50 miles. After that I'm probably going to try to get back to 60 and see how it feels. If it still seems too much like a grind, I'll probably finish my training with the Pfitz 55 plan.

I should read the whole thread before responding! I like your new plan.

 

[Gator Shawn]

I'm really enjoying watching heart rate now. Was very interesting to see how difficult it was to match my jogging pace HR on my bike.