What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Randy Moss and Herman Moore (1 Viewer)

LHUCKS

Footballguy
Moss' Numbers

                +--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1998 min |  16 |     1      4    4.0    0 |    69   1313  19.0   17 || 1999 min |  16 |     4     43   10.8    0 |    80   1413  17.7   11 || 2000 min |  16 |     3      5    1.7    0 |    77   1437  18.7   15 || 2001 min |  16 |     3     38   12.7    0 |    82   1233  15.0   10 || 2002 min |  16 |     6     51    8.5    0 |   106   1347  12.7    7 || 2003 min |  16 |     6     18    3.0    0 |   111   1632  14.7   17 || 2004 min |  13 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    49    767  15.7   13 || 2005 oak |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    60   1005  16.8    8 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   | 125 |    23    159    6.9    0 |   634  10147  16.0   98 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+Moore's Numbers
Code:
                +--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1991 det |  15 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    11    135  12.3    0 || 1992 det |  12 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    51    966  18.9    4 || 1993 det |  15 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    61    935  15.3    6 || 1994 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    72   1173  16.3   11 || 1995 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   123   1686  13.7   14 || 1996 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   106   1296  12.2    9 || 1997 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   104   1293  12.4    8 || 1998 det |  15 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    82    983  12.0    5 || 1999 det |   8 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    16    197  12.3    2 || 2000 det |  14 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    40    434  10.8    3 || 2001 det |   6 |     0      0    0.0    0 |     4     76  19.0    0 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   | 149 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   670   9174  13.7   62 |
Am I the only one that sees a correlation here?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not seeing it. EVERY year Moss has played he's put up yards and TD's. Moore had 4 good years. Moss' worst fantasy season prior to last season included 1398 total yards and 7 TD's. Also 6 of 8 years Moss has had 10+ TD's, while Moore only had 2 of 11 with 10+. I'm not following the comparison.

So to answer your question; you may be the only one that sees it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Moore's Numbers

Code:
+--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1995 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   123   1686 13.7   14 ||
As others have said, there is no comparison. Moss can't touch these numbers.
 
Moore's Numbers

Code:
                +--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1995 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   123   1686 13.7   14 ||
As others have said, there is no comparison. Moss can't touch these numbers.
I wonder how many people realize Moore has had the best yardage year between these two...not many.
 
I'm actually quite shocked nobody sees this. I'll give it a few more hours and then I'll take the driver's seat of the short yellow bus.

 
I think the point might be that once injuries started affecting Moore, he never recovered from the perspective of production. It looks like this is happening to Moss at roughly the same point in his career as it happened to Moore.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the point might be that once injuries started affecting Moore, he never recovered from the perspective of production. It looks like this is happening to Moss at roughly the same point in his career as it happened to Moore.
Ding Ding Ding.Bonus Question: Why does it make sense to compare Moore and Moss with respect to injuries?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Herman MooreNew York Giants | WR | #82 College: Virginia Rookie Yr: 1991 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 218 Randy MossOakland Raiders | WR | #18 College: Marshall Rookie Yr: 1998 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 205 What is important here?

:popcorn:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Herman MooreNew York Giants | WR | #82 College: Virginia Rookie Yr: 1991 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 218 Randy MossOakland Raiders | WR | #18 College: Marshall Rookie Yr: 1998 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 205 What is important here?

:popcorn:
Are you seriously trying to imply that Randy Moss has a higher injury risk simply because he is tall? I think there would be quite a few NBA players that would challenge that assertion.I just don't see it.

 
Herman MooreNew York Giants | WR | #82 College: Virginia Rookie Yr: 1991 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 218 Randy MossOakland Raiders | WR | #18 College: Marshall Rookie Yr: 1998 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 205 What is important here?

:popcorn:
Are you seriously trying to imply that Randy Moss has a higher injury risk simply because he is tall? I think there would be quite a few NBA players that would challenge that assertion.
That's exactly what I'm asserting, and Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion...and LOL at comparing the NBA to the NFL.
 
Herman MooreNew York Giants | WR | #82 College: Virginia Rookie Yr: 1991 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 218 Randy MossOakland Raiders | WR | #18 College: Marshall Rookie Yr: 1998 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 205 What is important here?

:popcorn:
Are you seriously trying to imply that Randy Moss has a higher injury risk simply because he is tall? I think there would be quite a few NBA players that would challenge that assertion.
That's exactly what I'm asserting, and Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion...and LOL at comparing the NBA to the NFL.
Moss' recent string of injuries doesn't support anything other then the fact that NFL players get hurt sometimes. Herman Moore had a nice career, at times he was a great player. He played eight seasons and then got hurt. I think the fact that he played eight seasons in the NFL and was 30 years old is much more relevent than the fact that he was 6'4".
 
On a related note, I would really worry about Darrell Jackson this year. He was injured and missed significant time last year for the second time in his career. Plus, he is 6'0". You can always count on those six foot guys to start breaking down in their sixth year.

Six feet tall.

Six years in the league.

Seriously don't you guys see it.

 
Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion...
and how exactly does that support it, other than you saying it does?how did his height make him more prone to the specific injuries he had this year?

 
On a related note, I would really worry about Darrell Jackson this year. He was injured and missed significant time last year for the second time in his career. Plus, he is 6'0". You can always count on those six foot guys to start breaking down in their sixth year.

Six feet tall.

Six years in the league.

Seriously don't you guys see it.
BRILLANT !!
 
Herman MooreNew York Giants | WR | #82 College: Virginia Rookie Yr: 1991 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 218 Randy MossOakland Raiders | WR | #18 College: Marshall Rookie Yr: 1998 Ht., Wt.: 6'4", 205 What is important here?

:popcorn:
Are you seriously trying to imply that Randy Moss has a higher injury risk simply because he is tall? I think there would be quite a few NBA players that would challenge that assertion.
That's exactly what I'm asserting, and Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion...and LOL at comparing the NBA to the NFL.
Terrell Davis and Stephen Davis both declined quickly after serious knee surgery. They were bothed named DAVIS!!!! Don't you see! Don't you see!?!?!?God, why am I so understood when I am making masterful comparisons!!!

THE SAME NAME!!!!

 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade. But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.

 
Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion...
and how exactly does that support it, other than you saying it does?how did his height make him more prone to the specific injuries he had this year?
It's obvious. Moss is 6'4".

6+4=10

He has been hurt two times in his career.

10-2=8

He has played 8 seasons in the NFL.

Herman Moore's career basically fell off a cliff after his 8th season.

Herman Moore was 6'4".

Herman Moore (6'4") = Randy Moss (6'4")

Divide by 6'4"

Herman Moore = Randy Moss

Randy Moss' career is basically over.

Don't you see it. You can't argue with math.

 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade.  But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
Blue, you may be right and Moss could be done. But the problem I have with this whole arguement is LHUCKS trying to assert that Moss is on the decline because he is tall. That isn't an opinion that deserves to be taken seriously. It is an opinion that deserves to be ridiculed.Now, if someone were to argue that Moss is a high injury risk because of his age, his lack of dedication, his poor workout regimen, his use of drugs, or any other relevant reason then they would have a point. But simply asserting that he is a risk because he is tall is insane.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade.  But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
Blue, you may be right and Moss could be done. But the problem I have with this whole arguement is LHUCKS trying to assert that Moss is on the decline because he is tall. That isn't an opinion that deserves to be taken seriously. It is an opinion that deserves to be ridiculed.Now, if someone were to argue that Moss is a high injury risk because of his age, his lack of dedication, his poor workout regimen, his use of drugs, or any other relevant reason then they would have a point. But simply asserting that he is a risk because he is tall is insane.
Thanks Q-Bert, I kind of jumped in without reading all the details. I think a case could be made that his height may have something to do with it, but it is vastly overshadowed by the points you make; age and lack of dedication.The guy had a foot problem when he was a rookie, which he was probably about 21. The foot has never healed and he is about 28 today; that thing isn't going to heal. The hammy and the back injuries have been present for about 2 or 3 years now and those things are going anywhere.

It's certainly not his height that is preventing these injuries from healing; I suspect it is his work ethic and dedication to rehabbing. Or possibly he is genetics are not the most optimal healing genetics in the World.

I don't think height really limited Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and his career. It comes down to taking care of your body.

 
I find it interesting that Herman Moore has the same initials as this guy...

HM

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the point might be that once injuries started affecting Moore, he never recovered from the perspective of production. It looks like this is happening to Moss at roughly the same point in his career as it happened to Moore.
Ding Ding Ding.Bonus Question: Why does it make sense to compare Moore and Moss with respect to injuries?
Because their QBs suck? j/k... couldn't resist.
 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade.  But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
:goodposting: I have a feeling that persons on this messageboard have so much invested in Moss that they fail to see his decline in numbers, in addition to his his recent string of injuries...which just happen to be occuring around the same time Moore's decline and injuries came about.

Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well I believe Herman Moore played with a Harry Colon. Did Randy get caught with his finger up his rear, cause that would be a simalarity. :P

 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade.  But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
:goodposting: I have a feeling that persons on this messageboard have so much invested in Moss that they fail to see his decline in numbers, in addition to his his recent string of injuries.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my issues with your assertion. I believe there are legitimate reasons to downgrade Randy Moss. I just don't think that his height is one of them. This is the difference between good posting and ridiculous assertations.Good Posting

The guy had a foot problem when he was a rookie, which he was probably about 21. The foot has never healed and he is about 28 today; that thing isn't going to heal. The hammy and the back injuries have been present for about 2 or 3 years now and those things are going anywhere.

It's certainly not his height that is preventing these injuries from healing; I suspect it is his work ethic and dedication to rehabbing. Or possibly he is genetics are not the most optimal healing genetics in the World.
Ridiculous Assertation
Are you seriously trying to imply that Randy Moss has a higher injury risk simply because he is tall?

That's exactly what I'm asserting, and Moss' recent string of injuries support this assertion
 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade. But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
:goodposting: I have a feeling that persons on this messageboard have so much invested in Moss that they fail to see his decline in numbers, in addition to his his recent string of injuries...which just happen to be occuring around the same time Moore's decline and injuries came about.

Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???
Wait a second, I get it. LHUCKS is code for Dante DiTrapano. You and your wife just got out of the St. Petersburg jail and still had a bit of crack stashed back at home. So after blazing that, you've come on here to drive down the FF value of your former client. Good luck with the rehab and we will take it all with a grain of the rock.
 
Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???
:confused: Quick name the last 6'4" WR other than Moss or Moore to put up Pro Bowl numbers at any time in their career.

The fact is 6'4" WRs are rare. Because 6'4" is really freaking tall. You have found one guy to compare to Moss who was a good to great player and was the same height. The fact that Herman Moore's career fell off following his eighth season tells us absolutely nothing about Randy Moss' prospects for next year.

You are fighting a losing battle and would be best served by slinking off to a different thread and letting this one slide off the front page.

 
Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???
:confused: Quick name the last 6'4" WR other than Moss or Moore to put up Pro Bowl numbers at any time in their career.

The fact is 6'4" WRs are rare. Because 6'4" is really freaking tall. You have found one guy to compare to Moss who was a good to great player and was the same height. The fact that Herman Moore's career fell off following his eighth season tells us absolutely nothing about Randy Moss' prospects for next year.

You are fighting a losing battle and would be best served by slinking off to a different thread and letting this one slide off the front page.
Just putting it out there tough guy...I think Moss' best days are over, but that's just me.
 
Just putting it out there tough guy...I think Moss' best days are over, but that's just me.
I have no problem with saying that Moss' best days are over. But at least try to give a real reason. BlueOnion gave several, so did I. But saying that a WR is a big risk because he is tall doesn't make any sense. Tall receivers are good, they catch a lot of touchdowns.

 
Just putting it out there tough guy...I think Moss' best days are over, but that's just me.
I have no problem with saying that Moss' best days are over. But at least try to give a real reason. BlueOnion gave several, so did I. But saying that a WR is a big risk because he is tall doesn't make any sense. Tall receivers are good, they catch a lot of touchdowns.
Tall WRs also have an increased risk of back problems. Additionally, tall WRs historically don't last very long in the NFL. Why should we neglect these facts? The comparison to Moore's numbers are strikingly similar IMHO.
 
I think the bigger question, is how upright do they both run, and whether or not they attended a school in the "conference of champions." ;)

 
Just putting it out there tough guy...I think Moss' best days are over, but that's just me.
I have no problem with saying that Moss' best days are over. But at least try to give a real reason. BlueOnion gave several, so did I. But saying that a WR is a big risk because he is tall doesn't make any sense. Tall receivers are good, they catch a lot of touchdowns.
Tall WRs also have an increased risk of back problems. Additionally, tall WRs historically don't last very long in the NFL. Why should we neglect these facts? The comparison to Moore's numbers are strikingly similar IMHO.
Because they aren't facts. They are things some guy on a message board has said. You are comparing Moss to Moore but haven't once compared the injuries they suffered. If I remember correctly Moore's career truly ended when he wrecked his hip. How does that correlate to the injuries Moss has had? How do they relate to either one of them being tall? My grandma wrecked her hip, she is 5'2". Is my grandma tall?I'd love to hear real reasons for concern related to Randy Moss. I am considering acquiring him and don't want it to wreck my season. So somebody who is knowledgeable about the situation please tell me about the injuries he has had over the last two years. Are they degenerative? Will they affect him this season? Is he undergoing any treatment or rehab during the offseason? If so, how is it progressing?

You say he is an injury risk because of last season and the fact that he is tall. I say he had 1000 yards and 8 TDs last season and averaged over 16 YPC. If no one can convince me that his injuries from last season are going to linger into this season I see no reason to expect anything other then the old Randy Moss. 1300-1400 yards and 12-17 TDs. Why am I wrong?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade. But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
:goodposting: I have a feeling that persons on this messageboard have so much invested in Moss that they fail to see his decline in numbers, in addition to his his recent string of injuries...which just happen to be occuring around the same time Moore's decline and injuries came about.

Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???
Is there anything magic that happens at 6'4" to make your body magically break down?Jerry Rice at 6'2" had a pretty decent and long career

At 6'3" both Toomer and T.O. have played for 10+ years (not too bad)

At 6'4" Keyshawn has also played 10+ years.

 
I have been ridiculed since the Vikings' traded Moss as being a homer and defending the trade.  But I said it then and I'll say it again, Moss is a fraction of what he use to be and definitely on the decline.

Buyers beware.
:goodposting: I have a feeling that persons on this messageboard have so much invested in Moss that they fail to see his decline in numbers, in addition to his his recent string of injuries...which just happen to be occuring around the same time Moore's decline and injuries came about.

Quick question...who is the last 6'4" WR to put up Pro Bowl numbers in their 30's???
Is there anything magic that happens at 6'4" to make your body magically break down?At 6'4" Keyshawn has also played 10+ years.
Keyshawn and TO are good examples. Keyshawn specifically has avoided major injury.
 
I think instead of height, a better way to look at this is what happens to all WR's in their 9th year. My guess is that you'd find a fairly large decay in their production compared to their "prime." :shrug:

 
I think the bigger question, is how upright do they both run, and whether or not they attended a school in the "conference of champions." ;)
....or does Moss hang out with Chris Brown :popcorn:
 
A found an article which suggests just the OPPOSITE = Taller WR's are more likely to have longevity than shorter WR's. Here's a snippet:

Let’s face it, you will be hard pressed to find many wide receivers less than six feet tall with league longevity. For one, the “jump ball” is a play that is already not an option for shorter receivers. If all things were equal, there would be no short players in the league at receiver. However, clearly rosters spots are won by shorter players exhibiting exceptional speed, hands, intangibles, or any combination of the three. They take this roster spot with a higher probability of a reduced career. Once they lose a step, they typically lose their value, while their taller counterparts keep sticking around in the league (ref: Keyshawn Johnson). Shorter receivers also run the added risk of a taller counterpart emerging during the year, which can bump them down on the depth chart or take away “favorite” status from their quarterback.
LinkThings that make you go hmmmm.

 
LHUCKS, how far would Moss have to drop for you to draft him? Can you really pass him up if he drops as low as WR6 as he did in WSL1? He certainly won't drop below WR10 in most drafts due to name recognition alone.

If he is sitting there in the 3rd round or even late 2nd in a redraft, I think you have to grab him.

Personally I have to give him another "bad" year before crossing him off my short list. After all, a bad year by Moss's standards is still good for 1000 and 8.

 
A found an article which suggests just the OPPOSITE = Taller WR's are more likely to have longevity than shorter WR's. Here's a snippet:

Let’s face it, you will be hard pressed to find many wide receivers less than six feet tall with league longevity.  For one, the “jump ball” is a play that is already not an option for shorter receivers.  If all things were equal, there would be no short players in the league at receiver.  However, clearly rosters spots are won by shorter players exhibiting exceptional speed, hands, intangibles, or any combination of the three.  They take this roster spot with a higher probability of a reduced career.  Once they lose a step, they typically lose their value, while their taller counterparts keep sticking around in the league (ref: Keyshawn Johnson).  Shorter receivers also run the added risk of a taller counterpart emerging during the year, which can bump them down on the depth chart or take away “favorite” status from their quarterback.
LinkThings that make you go hmmmm.
We're talking about years at peak performance for purposes of this thread, as opposed to what this article appears to be addressing which is years is "league longevity."Two different discussion IMHO. Good find though.

 
LHUCKS, how far would Moss have to drop for you to draft him? Can you really pass him up if he drops as low as WR6 as he did in WSL1? He certainly won't drop below WR10 in most drafts due to name recognition alone.

If he is sitting there in the 3rd round or even late 2nd in a redraft, I think you have to grab him.

Personally I have to give him another "bad" year before crossing him off my short list. After all, a bad year by Moss's standards is still good for 1000 and 8.
Actually, with the addition of Brooks, I might have Moss ranked as high as #2 for certain leagues. I haven't decided yet, specifically I want to take a look at Art Shell's passing history, which I haven't had a chance to do just quite yet. But I love the signing of Brooks and I think it bodes well for Moss' '06 fantasy implications.The purpose of this thread was specifically to address the age of Moss, his injuries and the risk they pose. I am not saying that I wouldn't draft Moss as the #2 WR, because I might. :ph34r:

 
Moore ran like an old man. His body "told ya" he was done. Unfortunately, I'm sure you've seen this before in some players. I remember when he signed with the G-men. The fans were just hoping they'd prop him up in the redzone. He was so tall with such long arms+soft hands that he was actually drafted then.

I miss Herman, I was a big fan.

 
Moore's Numbers

                +--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1995 det |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |   123   1686 13.7   14 ||
As others have said, there is no comparison. Moss can't touch these numbers.
I wonder how many people realize Moore has had the best yardage year between these two...not many.
CODE +--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 2003 min | 16 | 6 18 3.0 0 | 111 1632 14.7 17 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

You want to quibble over 12 receptions for 50 yards? I'll take the three extra TDs.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top