primitivepursuit
Footballguy
I heard this yesterday from a huge Packers fan. Does this thing have any legs?
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Randy Moss out of Oakland? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter primitivepursuit
- Start date
lord_helmet
Footballguy
I have heard a rumor that Al Davis is trying to move Moss and his 2nd rd pick for GBs 1st rounder, but if this is only ramblings of GB homers remains to be seen
Big Score
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Why bother for Green Bay? He's a troublesome wideout with motivation who may or may not still have 'it'. Why give up a draft pick for him?
I'd rather just go after a guy like Donte Stallworth in Free Agency and keep the draft picks.
Also draft picks are like gold to Ted Thompson. He values them immensely as he believes correctly that they are the key to building a franchise. I dout he parts with one for Moss.
I'd rather just go after a guy like Donte Stallworth in Free Agency and keep the draft picks.
Also draft picks are like gold to Ted Thompson. He values them immensely as he believes correctly that they are the key to building a franchise. I dout he parts with one for Moss.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
I can't see this being true but it is the NFL so who knows.As a dynasty owner of Moss I say
Devilsden2001
Footballguy
Never happen, Moss would take some of the attention off of Brett, and everyone knows that he is about to begin his "will I or will I not come back", everyone pay attention to me BS. They sent Walker packing because he was a hold out and was drawing the attention off of him.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
There's no way he sees that money. Raiders will flat out cut him if the can't trade him and any team trading for him would want to renegotiate.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
*fingers crossed*
msommer
Footballguy
I'm not sure Randy Moss and reality exists in the same dimension. His financial demands will make any contract/trade negotiation extremely difficult. That was the point.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Which is why giving up a draft pick to the Raiders is so stupid. I just don't see it happening. Al seems to have painted himself into a corner here.
Softball 3:16
Footballguy
Pretty sure you can't aquire somebody via trade and then renegotiate down. The team trading for him, would then have to cut him and re-sign him for less money. But after he's cut there is no reason that player can't just sign with somebody else. Then you would be giving up draft picks, taking a cap hit and getting no players for it. Nobody is that dumb.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
You can renegotiate a contract before trading for the guy if the team trading him gives you permission. Seattle did it with Branch.
tlovyankee
Footballguy
I think the Raiders are going to be stuck with him. With Moss not playing like he did in Minny I see it would be hard to shop is contract. This might be the new TO situation like in Philly if he does not get his way.
If they get a good coach in there and draft Russell I think he might change is mind but I doubt it.
If they get a good coach in there and draft Russell I think he might change is mind but I doubt it.
zamboni
Footballguy
I agree with this, although the one key difference between the Moss and Owens situation is that TO at least had recent strong production to justify a big contract. Moss hasn't done much for a few years now.
massraider
Footballguy
The one saving grace is that a lot of teams have cap room, and it only takes one team to fall in love. There are more teams with cap room this year than I can ever remember, and the FA class top to bottom, is pretty 
.
The Pack rumor came from Packerschatter.com. I've also heard KGB and a 2nd or 3rd for Moss. Whatever. If he winds up getting traded, I doubt any of these rumors are close.
Moss has reiterated this offseason that he wants out. I don't care if we get anything for him. I do think he can still help a team, I just think it has to be the right situation. His teammates like him, that's not the problem. You just can't face any adversity. Because if things go south, Moss will check out.
I just think every year there are teams that want to make that splash, ands there will be no one bigger than Moss available this offseason. Yep, he's been a beeyotch this season, but you know what? Teams will say, "Well, he was playing for the Raiders, who can blame him?"
Someone will talk themselves into making the move.
.The Pack rumor came from Packerschatter.com. I've also heard KGB and a 2nd or 3rd for Moss. Whatever. If he winds up getting traded, I doubt any of these rumors are close.
Moss has reiterated this offseason that he wants out. I don't care if we get anything for him. I do think he can still help a team, I just think it has to be the right situation. His teammates like him, that's not the problem. You just can't face any adversity. Because if things go south, Moss will check out.
I just think every year there are teams that want to make that splash, ands there will be no one bigger than Moss available this offseason. Yep, he's been a beeyotch this season, but you know what? Teams will say, "Well, he was playing for the Raiders, who can blame him?"
Someone will talk themselves into making the move.
I think there will be a few teams interested in Randy Moss. I wouldn't be surprised if Randy is viewed the same way as Corey Dillon was during his last couple of seasons in Cincy. Sure Moss is no angel and has baggage, but at the same time the Raiders organization hasn't exactly fostered a winning environment of late.
I think a lot of folks would feel that if Moss was in a position to play on a winning team, the reward his talent would bring would outweigh the risk his attitude would bring.
I think a lot of folks would feel that if Moss was in a position to play on a winning team, the reward his talent would bring would outweigh the risk his attitude would bring.
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Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
Randy who?
jestertj
Footballguy
Any team that would part with a draft pick to pay a 31 year old WR with chronic ankle, back and groin problems that makes 10-11M per season is crazy. Add to that his ability to check out of a game and/or a season early. To me, his only way out of Oakland seems to be getting released. At that point, who will pay him the most and put up with his baggage?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
I heard on NFL Network Radio that Davis purportedly has indicated that both Moss and Porter will be back in Silver and Black in 2007
Frostillicus
Footballguy
???
zamboni
Footballguy
An oxymoron
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
If he didn't say that he'd take away what little leverage he has left to try and trade him. If the Raiders pay him 10 mil next year after what he pulled this year, they're even dumber than I thought.
Softball 3:16
Footballguy
Right, but they renegotiated up. Branch got more money in the deal just like he wanted. You're talking about Moss negotiating down.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Just for the record he's 29, almost 30 (mid-Feb).If he leaves Oakland do I get to write another parody song about him?
Moss has done nothing to prove his worth for this contract, previously sure but not this one. If the hit he takes is more than what he'll get on the market he might take it.BTW I've always felt that was a charade. I don't believe New England negotiated the contract for Branch while Seattle could have just had a conference call with he+his agent. He signed the dotted line in the New England front office sure but the rest....charades
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x260bm
Footballguy
I don’t think the Raiders cut him. The Raiders are up against the cap again this year. This is a team that cut it’s starting QB for cap reasons last year. That didn’t work out real well. If they cut Moss and Porter they are going to have to cut 3-5 other players just to make up for the cap hit.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
Matt Millen?
massraider
Footballguy
Incorrect. Very, very incorrect.
massraider
Footballguy
Couldn't hurt to phone Dan Snyder.Matt Millen?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
i am by no means an expert, but I dont think this is how the cap works. If the raiders wait til after june 1st to cut him dont they save his salary from the cap(10mil) and then cant they ration out his signing bonus hit over two years? So basically wouldnt his signing bonus have to have been like 30+ million to count as a bigger hit than salary plus bonus proration for this year?
msommer
Footballguy
Even if it were correct, it would take a bonus in excess of 20M signed two years ago to exceed his salary this year - does anyone have specifics?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
rough guess here but from what i can gather he signed his original deal for 75 mil with an 18 mil signing bonus. The raiders renegotaited and gave him 5 mil in guaranteed money in 2005 which prorates it over the rest of his deal. His contract expires in 2008. So he has two years left of his 7 year deal. that leaves 5 million left in original signing bonus money as well as 2.5 million from the renegotiation. So even if they cut him and do it before June 1st, they save 2.5 million. If they wait til after they save a bunch more.Again this isnt fact, but i think its pretty close.
jerry rice in his prime couldn't have done anything in an offense when the usual sequence was sack, sack, sack & punt...some teams will take a chance on him, but he will almost certainly have to take an incentive-laden contract... i agree most likely scenario is he is cut... raiders won't want to pay him $10 mill, he won't want to give them & renegotiate if he knows not doing so is his ticket out of town, which he wants (he has all the leverage)... a sign (renegotiated) & trade is possible, but probably unlikely unless it was a team moss wanted to go to... it would be on his terms, not the raiders, & it would have aforementioned hurdle of requiring the renegotiation... no team is going to want to pay him $10 mill in 07... i think it has been mentioned on the board before, but DAL would be a great fit if he is cut... if parcells is back (signs pointing in this direction), many insiders think TO won't be... jones i think has alluded to regretting not drafting him when he had the chance (as no doubt other front offices did... same with warren sapp)... he is younger than TO, & not nearly the distraction... while his effort is questioned more than TO, i could see in a competent offense with great rushing attack & surrounded by a high character organization & coached by parcells, he could rebound in a big way...
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Yes, i would agree with this. Fluid to him means something different now. If only he was Intafootball like he is Intajuice.Da Guru said:
historically, WRs don't hit the wall at 29...
it is one possible way to interpret the evidence, but isn't another just that this was a pathetic, putrid offense... were the raiders really bad because of moss... or was moss bad because of the raiders?
he is just one season removed from a great start (05 season)... it was admittedly a small sample (first month), but after people saying his career was over after lingering hammy issue in 04, he was amassing receiving yards at a historic clip... again, it was a short time, but he looked far from done then, until he had a bad groin injury... they can tend to linger also...
if his hamstring & groin injuries aren't chronic & permanent (other than isaac bruce earlier in his career & stallworth intermittently throughout his, have there really been that many WRs or skill position players for that matter in which hammy & groin injuries were career enders... at 29?), & PART of dismal 06 season is attributed to appalling environment he was in (all the way down the line... management, coaching, OL, QB, run game, etc, etc, etc), i'm just not sure that a 29 year old WR that was producing just a few years ago at a HoF clip will just hit the wall (again, thinking back to his blistering start in 05, not that long ago)...
i realize many on the board DO think this... not trying to come off as a moss apololgist, but i would really like to see what he could do in a more positive situation like DAL in 07... if he continues to have hammy & groin injuries this season, i'm officially throwing the towel in...
the attractive & compelling thing about moss is that, IF he can rebound from injuries, he is young enough that he could play at a high level for a few more years...
he was at one time one of fastest & most explosive athletes in the NFL at any position... even if he has lost a half he had a half step to lose, & will still be faster than nearly all DBs tasked with defending him... he is still an outstanding leaper, has same amazing hands, is still one of best ever at making mid-flight & in-air adjustments to the ball, etc...
* the reality is in dynasty leagues, it is probably best to hang on to him as his upside if he can rebound is arguably worth more than little he could get now after a few sub-par years... i probably wouldn't be looking to acquire him unless i could do so cheaply, & wouldn't want to overpay to assume the admittedly significant risk that his best days are behind him... i don't have a problem acknowledging that... the question is... is it closer to 90%-10% that is the case, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40? if we could discern that with more precision, & assess the risk better, we would be in a better position to know what is good or bad value in either trading him away or trying to acquire him...
it is one possible way to interpret the evidence, but isn't another just that this was a pathetic, putrid offense... were the raiders really bad because of moss... or was moss bad because of the raiders?
he is just one season removed from a great start (05 season)... it was admittedly a small sample (first month), but after people saying his career was over after lingering hammy issue in 04, he was amassing receiving yards at a historic clip... again, it was a short time, but he looked far from done then, until he had a bad groin injury... they can tend to linger also...
if his hamstring & groin injuries aren't chronic & permanent (other than isaac bruce earlier in his career & stallworth intermittently throughout his, have there really been that many WRs or skill position players for that matter in which hammy & groin injuries were career enders... at 29?), & PART of dismal 06 season is attributed to appalling environment he was in (all the way down the line... management, coaching, OL, QB, run game, etc, etc, etc), i'm just not sure that a 29 year old WR that was producing just a few years ago at a HoF clip will just hit the wall (again, thinking back to his blistering start in 05, not that long ago)...
i realize many on the board DO think this... not trying to come off as a moss apololgist, but i would really like to see what he could do in a more positive situation like DAL in 07... if he continues to have hammy & groin injuries this season, i'm officially throwing the towel in...
the attractive & compelling thing about moss is that, IF he can rebound from injuries, he is young enough that he could play at a high level for a few more years...he was at one time one of fastest & most explosive athletes in the NFL at any position... even if he has lost a half he had a half step to lose, & will still be faster than nearly all DBs tasked with defending him... he is still an outstanding leaper, has same amazing hands, is still one of best ever at making mid-flight & in-air adjustments to the ball, etc...
* the reality is in dynasty leagues, it is probably best to hang on to him as his upside if he can rebound is arguably worth more than little he could get now after a few sub-par years... i probably wouldn't be looking to acquire him unless i could do so cheaply, & wouldn't want to overpay to assume the admittedly significant risk that his best days are behind him... i don't have a problem acknowledging that... the question is... is it closer to 90%-10% that is the case, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40? if we could discern that with more precision, & assess the risk better, we would be in a better position to know what is good or bad value in either trading him away or trying to acquire him...
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pretender
Footballguy
As a diehard Packer fan - I agree we don't need Moss and his attitude! I would love to see Stallworth come our direction!
primitivepursuit
Footballguy
bump
Neo
The Dude minds
historically, WRs don't hit the wall at 29...it is one possible way to interpret the evidence, but isn't another just that this was a pathetic, putrid offense... were the raiders really bad because of moss... or was moss bad because of the raiders?he is just one season removed from a great start (05 season)... it was admittedly a small sample (first month), but after people saying his career was over after lingering hammy issue in 04, he was amassing receiving yards at a historic clip... again, it was a short time, but he looked far from done then, until he had a bad groin injury... they can tend to linger also...if his hamstring & groin injuries aren't chronic & permanent (other than isaac bruce earlier in his career & stallworth intermittently throughout his, have there really been that many WRs or skill position players for that matter in which hammy & groin injuries were career enders... at 29?), & PART of dismal 06 season is attributed to appalling environment he was in (all the way down the line... management, coaching, OL, QB, run game, etc, etc, etc), i'm just not sure that a 29 year old WR that was producing just a few years ago at a HoF clip will just hit the wall (again, thinking back to his blistering start in 05, not that long ago)...i realize many on the board DO think this... not trying to come off as a moss apololgist, but i would really like to see what he could do in a more positive situation like DAL in 07... if he continues to have hammy & groin injuries this season, i'm officially throwing the towel in...the attractive & compelling thing about moss is that, IF he can rebound from injuries, he is young enough that he could play at a high level for a few more years...he was at one time one of fastest & most explosive athletes in the NFL at any position... even if he has lost a half he had a half step to lose, & will still be faster than nearly all DBs tasked with defending him... he is still an outstanding leaper, has same amazing hands, is still one of best ever at making mid-flight & in-air adjustments to the ball, etc...* the reality is in dynasty leagues, it is probably best to hang on to him as his upside if he can rebound is arguably worth more than little he could get now after a few sub-par years... i probably wouldn't be looking to acquire him unless i could do so cheaply, & wouldn't want to overpay to assume the admittedly significant risk that his best days are behind him... i don't have a problem acknowledging that... the question is... is it closer to 90%-10% that is the case, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40? if we could discern that with more precision, & assess the risk better, we would be in a better position to know what is good or bad value in either trading him away or trying to acquire him...
As a Moss dynasty owner, I've gotten some inquries about him, but how can I sell this guy right now? His value is so low compared to what he can be (in the right situation) it only makes sense to hold onto him. One guy that inquired about him was interested in giving me a draft pick....1.14. I can't drop him for that.
x260bm
Footballguy
You are sort of right but wrong in this instance.Restructuring Moss’s contract to gain additional cap room has occurred on an almost yearly basis. For example, Moss’s 2005 base salary was reduced from $7,750,000 to $665,000 by converting it to bonuses. This year they got his base salary down to 4 million. There are naturally future cap penalties for doing these things: Roster or reporting bonuses earned or paid before preseason training camp are also considered signing bonuses. Guaranteed salary advances or advances that do not have to be repaid are treated as signing bonuses. Money guaranteed or paid for option years, contract extensions, contract modifications, individually negotiated rights of first refusal, and option buyouts are considered signing bonuses. Reporting bonuses are treated as signing bonuses if the contract is signed after the start of training camp. Roster bonuses are also considered signing bonuses if the contract was signed after the last preseason game. Finally, individually negotiated relocation bonuses are treated as a signing bonus.It is true that if they had left his contract alone they could cut him after June 1st for a 5 million cap penalty and save 6 million in cap space. Because of the restructuring, Moss’s signing bonus has ballooned considerably. Much more than what you are reporting. It now will cost more to cut him than keep him.hburgers11 said:
x260bm
Footballguy
Great argument here. The Raiders have 14.1 million in cap room, 22nd most in the NFL. That looks like a lot but it only includes the 35 players under contract. Some of those players will undoubtedly retire or be placed on IR reducing the number of useable players. The NFL minimum salary varies by length of service and can be as $810,000. They also have to sign their draft picks and the first pick costs a lot to sign. The Raiders do not have money to burn this year.
valence
Footballguy
I'd really like to see the Bucs make a run at him. Gruden historically has favored signing veterans and Moss could be the playmaker they need on offense if Gruden can motivate him.
The Bucs have a lot of money to throw around this offseason and Gruden is going into a make or break year in 08'
Seems like a good fit all around.
The Bucs have a lot of money to throw around this offseason and Gruden is going into a make or break year in 08'
Seems like a good fit all around.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't care if you think it's a good argument or not. I don't need to argue stuff that isn't true.The Raiders aren't up against the cap, and that $14 million number is only going up. There are roster bonuses due to bums like Brooks and Sims, which they surely will not collect.When the Raiders have 535,000 in cap room, they still sign free agents. So why on earth would I be concerned about a $14 million+ buffer?"Less room than other teams" does not equal "Up against the cap".May just be a semantics argument, but people come here looking for facts. Suggesting that if they cut Moss and Porter that they would have to cut 3 other players to make up the cap hit is a flat-out lie.
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