Randy Moss vs Marvin Harrison (1 Viewer)

[Art Vandalay]

There been alot of disscusion this offseason on other wide recievers but 2 of the biggest names over the last 5 years haven't really gotten the headlines.

Headin into 06' both players are capable of being the #1 WR in FF and each has their own ?'s who do you think is the better player.

Personaly I like Moss. I think brooks is the perfect fit for Moss as he is the perfectly safety vavle type receiver downfield. He is also motivated that his name is no longer mention mentioned withthe new trendy wr's steve smith , chad and fitz. I see Moss finishing #1 this year 1600 yds 14 tds.

Harrison on the other hand was dissapointing last year and is coming of an injury there is no doubt he will get his tds but i see his yds really falling off this year. I see Harrison finishing with 1050 9

 

[duaneok66]

There been alot of disscusion this offseason on other wide recievers but 2 of the biggest names over the last 5 years haven't really gotten the headlines.Headin into 06' both players are capable of being the #1 WR in FF and each has their own ?'s who do you think is the better player.Personaly I like Moss. I think brooks is the perfect fit for Moss as he is the perfectly safety vavle type receiver downfield. He is also motivated that his name is no longer mention mentioned withthe new trendy wr's steve smith , chad and fitz. I see Moss finishing #1 this year 1600 yds 14 tds.Harrison on the other hand was dissapointing last year and is coming of an injury there is no doubt he will get his tds but i see his yds really falling off this year. I see Harrison finishing with 1050 9

One guy can't stay healthy and takes plays off . . . the other is a gamer and superproductive and consistent . . . no contest . . .

 

[MLBrandow]

Because I like Wayne to out-produce Harrison this year, it makes the huge gap a slightly less huge gap.

Harrison for me.

Moss is no.

 

[Buttmonkey]

One guy can't stay healthy and takes plays off . . . the other is a gamer and superproductive and consistent . . . no contest . . .

Same tired argument. Moss said that 5 years ago. Let it go people. Harrison is 34 and Wayne is challenging hard for TDs/Catches - Moss is healthy and will post better numbers. No contest.

HTH

 

[radballs]

Depends on if you're looking for the home run or a higher floor. There's no doubt Moss has more upside but he's also more likely to underperform. I give a slight overall edge to Moss because I don't generally believe that certain players are more injury prone than others (for the most part) and his potential is too much to ignore.

 

[Z-Dog]

I feel like this is the year to be in a gamblin' mood on Moss. I think it would depend on where I was selecting from and what my overall strategy was. If I was drafting at 1.01-1.03, I'd be strongly considering going WR-WR next. In that case, I'd definitely take Harrison first and hope to get Moss second but I might still be willing to go Boldin. If I was only going to take one WR at that point, I'd probably take Moss over Harrison b/c I feel like I can cover that risk with cheap vets in late rounds. For me the main question with Moss is health, so I want to protect myself if he misses 4-6 games but I'm confident that he'll be great when he plays.

 

[Wingnut]

I feel like this is the year to be in a gamblin' mood on Moss. I think it would depend on where I was selecting from and what my overall strategy was. If I was drafting at 1.01-1.03, I'd be strongly considering going WR-WR next. In that case, I'd definitely take Harrison first and hope to get Moss second but I might still be willing to go Boldin. If I was only going to take one WR at that point, I'd probably take Moss over Harrison b/c I feel like I can cover that risk with cheap vets in late rounds. For me the main question with Moss is health, so I want to protect myself if he misses 4-6 games but I'm confident that he'll be great when he plays.

Im thinking that gamblin on Moss could be HUGE this year, too. I traded down from #1 to #3 and am thinking about trading #3 for #4 and taking Portis....Portis and Moss to start he draft....SCARY, but I just love these 2 guys this year.To whoever said Harrison had a down year last year, what planet were you on??? 12 TDs to pace all WRs....Down year??? Wow.IMO, Too much of a gamble that Wayne eats into Starvin Marvins stats a bit, whie Moss is the UNDISPUTED #1WR with a QB that can wing it. The talk on Moss has been quiet this year so far, and I like it that way.Punch my ticket on the Moss train. Im climbing aboard and may grab him at 2.09 (or 2.10) as my WR1. Risky? Yes. But I aint skeered. Upside outweighs the risk for me...at least ths season...Maybe I just have a wild hair up my ###, but Im willing to give it a shot.

 

[delusional]

being my #1 in two leagues last year, easy to say he lost me both my seasons.

Everyone said the same thing about Collins, about he can chuck the ball etc.

Take consistency over potential

 

[Spartans Rule]

It amazes me how Moss's stock has slipped. This is still Randy ####### Moss we're talking about. Ya know, the most talented WR in the history of football? Top 5 WR each of his first six seasons, top 20 the last 2 despite injury woes, and absolutely smokin' for the first 4 weeks of '05 before he got hurt.

Moss is one of the few players in FF with virtually limitless upside. He's always a threat for a 1600/17 season... this year as much as any with Brooks. And when you look at his overall career record, I don't see a huge risk. My projections, which I consider modest, make him my #1 WR.

I would not hesitate to take Moss in round 2. In round 3, he's the SOD.

 

[Birdie048]

Im thinking that gamblin on Moss could be HUGE this year, too. I traded down from #1 to #3 and am thinking about trading #3 for #4 and taking Portis....Portis and Moss to start he draft....SCARY, but I just love these 2 guys this year.

To whoever said Harrison had a down year last year, what planet were you on??? 12 TDs to pace all WRs....Down year??? Wow.

IMO, Too much of a gamble that Wayne eats into Starvin Marvins stats a bit, whie Moss is the UNDISPUTED #1WR with a QB that can wing it. The talk on Moss has been quiet this year so far, and I like it that way.

Punch my ticket on the Moss train. Im climbing aboard and may grab him at 2.09 (or 2.10) as my WR1. Risky? Yes. But I aint skeered. Upside outweighs the risk for me...at least ths season...Maybe I just have a wild hair up my ###, but Im willing to give it a shot.

I also believe in Randy and Clinton as a solid start to a championship roster! I think both have the right situation for being Top 3 in their positions and really making it thru the whole season. Brooks in Oak can scramble and Moss can use his athletic/physical talent to get separation downfield. Portis has the right OC giving him alot of carries and TD's projected this year.

I believe Wayne will emerge as the WR#1 in Indy with Marvin losing a step. Marvin is the highest type of professional athlete around this league. He is not a flash in the pan and will give 100% every play, let alone every day!!

I believe Randy will outproduce Marvin this year.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I'm drafting 4th in my 12 team league this year. Nabbed Portis in round one and Moss in the second as, I believe, the 4th WR off the board. This was AFTER Smith's reported hammy injury to boot. I was extrememly happy to see him sitting there at 2.9.

Moss is in a great position to outperform 2/3 of the wideouts selected in front of him in my draft. With that schedule and a QB that can't do much, but can move around and throw deep, as long as Randy's healthy he'll most likely be right there for #1 WR points.

 

[duaneok66]

One guy can't stay healthy and takes plays off . . . the other is a gamer and superproductive and consistent . . . no contest . . .

Same tired argument. Moss said that 5 years ago. Let it go people. Harrison is 34 and Wayne is challenging hard for TDs/Catches - Moss is healthy and will post better numbers. No contest.

HTH

what has Moss done to disprove that statement in the last five years???

 

[WarRedbirds]

This is still Randy ####### Moss we're talking about. ... absolutely smokin' for the first 4 weeks of '05 before he got hurt.

On purpose or freudian slip?

 

[duaneok66]

and absolutely smokin' for the first 4 weeks of '05 before he got hurt.

you are making my case for me . . .

 

[SSOG]

I just faced this very same question tonight. I was faced with choosing between Moss and Harrison. I waffled back and forth for a bit... but in the end, I chose Moss. Why? Harrison is 5 years older, his yardage numbers seem to be in a holding pattern, his yardage numbers are nowhere near what they used to be, and his reception numbers are nowhere near what they used to be. The second his TDs fall off, Harrison's value is falling through the floor. I just don't see any way that Harrison performs as a top-6 WR anymore. Top 12, for sure, but not top-6. Since I already had Chad Johnson rostered, I figured why not roll the dice with Moss? His floor's a little bit lower, but not much- even last year, which was sort of a "worst case scenario", he still finished as WR15. And his ceiling is so much higher.

 

[WarRedbirds]

I just faced this very same question tonight. I was faced with choosing between Moss and Harrison. I waffled back and forth for a bit... but in the end, I chose Moss. Why? Harrison is 5 years older, his yardage numbers seem to be in a holding pattern, his yardage numbers are nowhere near what they used to be, and his reception numbers are nowhere near what they used to be. The second his TDs fall off, Harrison's value is falling through the floor. I just don't see any way that Harrison performs as a top-6 WR anymore. Top 12, for sure, but not top-6. Since I already had Chad Johnson rostered, I figured why not roll the dice with Moss? His floor's a little bit lower, but not much- even last year, which was sort of a "worst case scenario", he still finished as WR15. And his ceiling is so much higher.

Understandable logic. Interesting statistic from my points per game findings from last year. In the 6 full games that Harrison played in the 2nd half of last season, Harrison averaged 16.6 PPG (in a standard scoring system), which according to my numbers places him at #1 for the entire league in the second half.Doesn't look too much like a player on the decline or ready to drop out of the top 6.

 

[SSOG]

I just faced this very same question tonight. I was faced with choosing between Moss and Harrison. I waffled back and forth for a bit... but in the end, I chose Moss. Why? Harrison is 5 years older, his yardage numbers seem to be in a holding pattern, his yardage numbers are nowhere near what they used to be, and his reception numbers are nowhere near what they used to be. The second his TDs fall off, Harrison's value is falling through the floor. I just don't see any way that Harrison performs as a top-6 WR anymore. Top 12, for sure, but not top-6. Since I already had Chad Johnson rostered, I figured why not roll the dice with Moss? His floor's a little bit lower, but not much- even last year, which was sort of a "worst case scenario", he still finished as WR15. And his ceiling is so much higher.

Understandable logic. Interesting statistic from my points per game findings from last year. In the 6 full games that Harrison played in the 2nd half of last season, Harrison averaged 16.6 PPG (in a standard scoring system), which according to my numbers places him at #1 for the entire league in the second half.Doesn't look too much like a player on the decline or ready to drop out of the top 6.

Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-9: WR8Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 10-17: WR7Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-17: WR9Harrison's not ready to "drop out" of the top 6. According to last year's numbers, he's already out.Harrison's receptions have declined for 3 straight seasons. Wayne's receptions have increased for 5 straight seasons. Marvin Harrison is one of the oldest WRs in the NFL. I expect him to remain a strong fantasy starter for a couple more years, without question... I just think the odds are more against him returning to the ELITE fantasy starter status than they are against Moss. Like I said, if Harrison's TD production starts slipping like his receptions have, Harrison is going to see his value drop. If Wayne's TD production starts increasing like his receptions have, then Harrison is likely to see his TD production drop.I'm a huge fan of Marvellous, and have in the past absolutely preferred him to Moss, I just don't see it again this season.

 

[jurb26]

It amazes me how Moss's stock has slipped. This is still Randy ####### Moss we're talking about. Ya know, the most talented WR in the history of football? Top 5 WR each of his first six seasons, top 20 the last 2 despite injury woes, and absolutely smokin' for the first 4 weeks of '05 before he got hurt.Moss is one of the few players in FF with virtually limitless upside. He's always a threat for a 1600/17 season... this year as much as any with Brooks. And when you look at his overall career record, I don't see a huge risk. My projections, which I consider modest, make him my #1 WR.I would not hesitate to take Moss in round 2. In round 3, he's the SOD.

 

[jdraiders]

Depends on if you're looking for the home run or a higher floor. There's no doubt Moss has more upside but he's also more likely to underperform. I give a slight overall edge to Moss because I don't generally believe that certain players are more injury prone than others (for the most part) and his potential is too much to ignore.

......what he said

 

[WarRedbirds]

Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-9: WR8Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 10-17: WR7Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-17: WR9Harrison's not ready to "drop out" of the top 6. According to last year's numbers, he's already out.

For some, just looking at the total points is enough, unfortunately total points can be deceiving. Harrison did not play in week 16 and played one series in Week 17, so he was WR7 in weeks 10-17 with two less games. Only counting games played (and I removed Harrisons week 17 where he barely played, and I've done the same for any players such as Wayne who were pulled), you get the following results for weeks 10-17:1. Marvin Harrison, 16.6 PPG2. Anquan Boldin, 15.1 PPG3. Chris Chambers, 13.5 PPG4. Larry Fitzgerald, 13.1 PPG5. Torry Holt, 12.2 PPG6. Steve Smith, 12.1 PPG (down from 18.0 in the first half of the season )7. Chad Johnson, 12.1 PPG8. Roy Williams, 11.5 PPG9. Lee Evans, 11.4 PPG10. Reggie Wayne, 11.1 PPGSome very interesting names pop up on this list of 2nd Half numbers, and some surprising numbers as well (for those of you locked into Steve Smith as the #1 WR...).Anyways, I'm sure these numbers will mean different things to different people, but it shows that Harrison's age is not necessarily affecting his performance, and I wouldn't discount him just yet.

 

[NYG Endzone]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss.

You can't lose your league with Marvin.

 

[duaneok66]

Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-9: WR8Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 10-17: WR7Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-17: WR9Harrison's not ready to "drop out" of the top 6. According to last year's numbers, he's already out.

For some, just looking at the total points is enough, unfortunately total points can be deceiving. Harrison did not play in week 16 and played one series in Week 17, so he was WR7 in weeks 10-17 with two less games. Only counting games played (and I removed Harrisons week 17 where he barely played, and I've done the same for any players such as Wayne who were pulled), you get the following results for weeks 10-17:1. Marvin Harrison, 16.6 PPG2. Anquan Boldin, 15.1 PPG3. Chris Chambers, 13.5 PPG4. Larry Fitzgerald, 13.1 PPG5. Torry Holt, 12.2 PPG6. Steve Smith, 12.1 PPG (down from 18.0 in the first half of the season )7. Chad Johnson, 12.1 PPG8. Roy Williams, 11.5 PPG9. Lee Evans, 11.4 PPG10. Reggie Wayne, 11.1 PPGSome very interesting names pop up on this list of 2nd Half numbers, and some surprising numbers as well (for those of you locked into Steve Smith as the #1 WR...).Anyways, I'm sure these numbers will mean different things to different people, but it shows that Harrison's age is not necessarily affecting his performance, and I wouldn't discount him just yet.

excellent post . . .

 

[duaneok66]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

good point; I prefer consistency over boom/bust . . . it depends on how you want to build your team . . .

 

[SSOG]

Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-9: WR8Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 10-17: WR7Marvin Harrison's total points rank in weeks 1-17: WR9Harrison's not ready to "drop out" of the top 6. According to last year's numbers, he's already out.

For some, just looking at the total points is enough, unfortunately total points can be deceiving. Harrison did not play in week 16 and played one series in Week 17, so he was WR7 in weeks 10-17 with two less games. Only counting games played (and I removed Harrisons week 17 where he barely played, and I've done the same for any players such as Wayne who were pulled), you get the following results for weeks 10-17:1. Marvin Harrison, 16.6 PPG2. Anquan Boldin, 15.1 PPG3. Chris Chambers, 13.5 PPG4. Larry Fitzgerald, 13.1 PPG5. Torry Holt, 12.2 PPG6. Steve Smith, 12.1 PPG (down from 18.0 in the first half of the season )7. Chad Johnson, 12.1 PPG8. Roy Williams, 11.5 PPG9. Lee Evans, 11.4 PPG10. Reggie Wayne, 11.1 PPGSome very interesting names pop up on this list of 2nd Half numbers, and some surprising numbers as well (for those of you locked into Steve Smith as the #1 WR...).Anyways, I'm sure these numbers will mean different things to different people, but it shows that Harrison's age is not necessarily affecting his performance, and I wouldn't discount him just yet.

So? Because a WR puts up a #1 stretch during the season?Just because Harrison was hot during weeks 10-15 doesn't change the fact that he was not during the rest of the season. It doesn't change the fact that his receptions have been declining or Wayne's have been increasing.I'm aware that Harrison came on like gangbusters down the stretch. I'm also aware that he sat out fantasy superbowls. Also, if you really put some stock into that "PPG over a specific stretch" nonsense, then how's this for you?1 Steve Smith wr 2005 34 23 342 14.87 16 4 58.002 Terrell Owens wr 2005 39 21 335 15.95 15 3 51.503 Chad Johnson wr 2005 28 19 307 16.16 15 3 49.704 Keenan McCardell wr 2005 26 17 257 15.12 15 4 49.705 Torry Holt wr 2005 34 23 358 15.57 16 2 47.806 Randy Moss wr 2005 29 15 343 22.87 11 2 46.307 Hines Ward wr 2005 19 12 219 18.25 9 4 45.808 Brandon Lloyd wr 2005 18 10 224 22.40 7 3 40.409 Jimmy Smith wr 2005 24 12 220 18.33 8 3 40.0010 Terry Glenn wr 2005 22 14 336 24.00 11 1 39.6011 Darrell Jackson wr 2005 33 22 321 14.59 18 1 38.1012 Santana Moss wr 2005 16 9 255 28.33 8 2 37.5013 Larry Fitzgerald wr 2005 26 20 266 13.30 14 1 35.0014 Keyshawn Johnson wr 2005 21 12 165 13.75 10 3 34.5015 Rod Smith wr 2005 29 22 253 11.50 14 1 31.3016 Plaxico Burress wr 2005 32 15 192 12.80 10 2 31.2017 Arnaz Battle wr 2005 22 15 171 11.40 12 2 30.3518 Deion Branch wr 2005 32 21 237 11.29 11 1 29.7019 T.J. Houshmandzadeh wr 2005 20 12 143 11.92 8 1 28.7020 Anquan Boldin wr 2005 30 18 269 14.94 15 0 28.7021 Antwaan Randle El wr 2005 14 7 220 31.43 6 1 28.6022 Chris Chambers wr 2005 32 14 154 11.00 11 1 28.3023 Joe Horn wr 2005 27 15 220 14.67 13 1 28.0024 Travis Taylor wr 2005 22 13 153 11.77 9 2 27.3025 Joey Galloway wr 2005 17 10 150 15.00 8 2 27.0026 Donald Driver wr 2005 19 12 202 16.83 8 1 26.2027 Muhsin Muhammad wr 2005 33 16 198 12.38 10 1 25.8028 Eddie Kennison wr 2005 24 16 240 15.00 10 0 24.8029 Robert Ferguson wr 2005 18 9 119 13.22 6 2 23.9030 Frisman Jackson wr 2005 14 11 168 15.27 7 1 22.8031 Drew Bennett wr 2005 25 12 227 18.92 8 0 22.7032 Braylon Edwards wr 2005 16 9 166 18.44 5 1 22.6033 Greg Lewis wr 2005 25 15 153 10.20 9 1 22.1034 Derrick Mason wr 2005 22 16 159 9.94 9 1 21.9035 Marvin Harrison wr 2005 27 15 158 10.53 9 1 21.80Does that demonstrate that Marvin Harrison is ready to fall off the face of the planet?I'm not questioning that Marvin Harrison is still capable of putting up dominant stretches, and I don't feel like I'm discounting him. If Reggie Wayne goes down, Harrison becomes the #1 WR on my board, actually. I'm just questioning whether Marvin Harrison can keep it up over the course of a full season anymore with Reggie Wayne eating into his touches, and with the possibility of Brandon Stokley seeing more looks again.

 

[SSOG]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

 

[Raider Nation]

I can see how some people might prefer Moss, but I'd rather have Marv.

Randy always seems to be on the injury report with a sore this and a pulled that.

With Edge in Arizona, you have to figure there will be more balls in the air in Indy.

You never know what you will get out of Brooks. He could implode at any time.

Meanwhile, the guy throwing to Harrison.......

 

[WarRedbirds]

So? Because a WR puts up a #1 stretch during the season?

Harrison was 5th in my modified PPG over the entire season. And yes...he was particularly hot in the second half. You brought up his age and Wayne. I was simply pointing out that these issues did not affect him in the second half of last season, when he (by my calculations) was older than he was in the first half, and Wayne is more experienced. I've reread your previous posts, and I now understand that you are looking for a dropoff, so 2nd half stats from last year are not relevant in this discussion.

I'm also aware that he sat out fantasy superbowls.

This to me is a very valid argument for taking Moss over Harrison.

1 Steve Smith wr 2005 34 23 342 14.87 16 4 58.002 Terrell Owens wr 2005 39 21 335 15.95 15 3 51.503 Chad Johnson wr 2005 28 19 307 16.16 15 3 49.704 Keenan McCardell wr 2005 26 17 257 15.12 15 4 49.705 Torry Holt wr 2005 34 23 358 15.57 16 2 47.806 Randy Moss wr 2005 29 15 343 22.87 11 2 46.307 Hines Ward wr 2005 19 12 219 18.25 9 4 45.808 Brandon Lloyd wr 2005 18 10 224 22.40 7 3 40.409 Jimmy Smith wr 2005 24 12 220 18.33 8 3 40.0010 Terry Glenn wr 2005 22 14 336 24.00 11 1 39.6011 Darrell Jackson wr 2005 33 22 321 14.59 18 1 38.1012 Santana Moss wr 2005 16 9 255 28.33 8 2 37.5013 Larry Fitzgerald wr 2005 26 20 266 13.30 14 1 35.0014 Keyshawn Johnson wr 2005 21 12 165 13.75 10 3 34.5015 Rod Smith wr 2005 29 22 253 11.50 14 1 31.3016 Plaxico Burress wr 2005 32 15 192 12.80 10 2 31.2017 Arnaz Battle wr 2005 22 15 171 11.40 12 2 30.3518 Deion Branch wr 2005 32 21 237 11.29 11 1 29.7019 T.J. Houshmandzadeh wr 2005 20 12 143 11.92 8 1 28.7020 Anquan Boldin wr 2005 30 18 269 14.94 15 0 28.7021 Antwaan Randle El wr 2005 14 7 220 31.43 6 1 28.6022 Chris Chambers wr 2005 32 14 154 11.00 11 1 28.3023 Joe Horn wr 2005 27 15 220 14.67 13 1 28.0024 Travis Taylor wr 2005 22 13 153 11.77 9 2 27.3025 Joey Galloway wr 2005 17 10 150 15.00 8 2 27.0026 Donald Driver wr 2005 19 12 202 16.83 8 1 26.2027 Muhsin Muhammad wr 2005 33 16 198 12.38 10 1 25.8028 Eddie Kennison wr 2005 24 16 240 15.00 10 0 24.8029 Robert Ferguson wr 2005 18 9 119 13.22 6 2 23.9030 Frisman Jackson wr 2005 14 11 168 15.27 7 1 22.8031 Drew Bennett wr 2005 25 12 227 18.92 8 0 22.7032 Braylon Edwards wr 2005 16 9 166 18.44 5 1 22.6033 Greg Lewis wr 2005 25 15 153 10.20 9 1 22.1034 Derrick Mason wr 2005 22 16 159 9.94 9 1 21.9035 Marvin Harrison wr 2005 27 15 158 10.53 9 1 21.80Does that demonstrate that Marvin Harrison is ready to fall off the face of the planet?

:whoosh: Guess I missed the point...not sure what those numbers are.

 

[jurb26]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made sense to me what so ever.

 

[Slinger]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss.

You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made no sense to me whatsoever.

Fixed.I agree with the notion that Moss is hit or miss while Harrison is safe and steady.

 

[Spartans Rule]

So? Because a WR puts up a #1 stretch during the season?

Harrison was 5th in my modified PPG over the entire season. And yes...he was particularly hot in the second half. You brought up his age and Wayne. I was simply pointing out that these issues did not affect him in the second half of last season, when he (by my calculations) was older than he was in the first half, and Wayne is more experienced. I've reread your previous posts, and I now understand that you are looking for a dropoff, so 2nd half stats from last year are not relevant in this discussion.

I'm also aware that he sat out fantasy superbowls.

This to me is a very valid argument for taking Moss over Harrison.

1 Steve Smith wr 2005 34 23 342 14.87 16 4 58.002 Terrell Owens wr 2005 39 21 335 15.95 15 3 51.503 Chad Johnson wr 2005 28 19 307 16.16 15 3 49.704 Keenan McCardell wr 2005 26 17 257 15.12 15 4 49.705 Torry Holt wr 2005 34 23 358 15.57 16 2 47.806 Randy Moss wr 2005 29 15 343 22.87 11 2 46.307 Hines Ward wr 2005 19 12 219 18.25 9 4 45.808 Brandon Lloyd wr 2005 18 10 224 22.40 7 3 40.409 Jimmy Smith wr 2005 24 12 220 18.33 8 3 40.0010 Terry Glenn wr 2005 22 14 336 24.00 11 1 39.6011 Darrell Jackson wr 2005 33 22 321 14.59 18 1 38.1012 Santana Moss wr 2005 16 9 255 28.33 8 2 37.5013 Larry Fitzgerald wr 2005 26 20 266 13.30 14 1 35.0014 Keyshawn Johnson wr 2005 21 12 165 13.75 10 3 34.5015 Rod Smith wr 2005 29 22 253 11.50 14 1 31.3016 Plaxico Burress wr 2005 32 15 192 12.80 10 2 31.2017 Arnaz Battle wr 2005 22 15 171 11.40 12 2 30.3518 Deion Branch wr 2005 32 21 237 11.29 11 1 29.7019 T.J. Houshmandzadeh wr 2005 20 12 143 11.92 8 1 28.7020 Anquan Boldin wr 2005 30 18 269 14.94 15 0 28.7021 Antwaan Randle El wr 2005 14 7 220 31.43 6 1 28.6022 Chris Chambers wr 2005 32 14 154 11.00 11 1 28.3023 Joe Horn wr 2005 27 15 220 14.67 13 1 28.0024 Travis Taylor wr 2005 22 13 153 11.77 9 2 27.3025 Joey Galloway wr 2005 17 10 150 15.00 8 2 27.0026 Donald Driver wr 2005 19 12 202 16.83 8 1 26.2027 Muhsin Muhammad wr 2005 33 16 198 12.38 10 1 25.8028 Eddie Kennison wr 2005 24 16 240 15.00 10 0 24.8029 Robert Ferguson wr 2005 18 9 119 13.22 6 2 23.9030 Frisman Jackson wr 2005 14 11 168 15.27 7 1 22.8031 Drew Bennett wr 2005 25 12 227 18.92 8 0 22.7032 Braylon Edwards wr 2005 16 9 166 18.44 5 1 22.6033 Greg Lewis wr 2005 25 15 153 10.20 9 1 22.1034 Derrick Mason wr 2005 22 16 159 9.94 9 1 21.9035 Marvin Harrison wr 2005 27 15 158 10.53 9 1 21.80Does that demonstrate that Marvin Harrison is ready to fall off the face of the planet?

:whoosh: Guess I missed the point...not sure what those numbers are.

It doesn't matter what they are. The point is that it doesn't do much good to evaluate players by selecting some arbitrary stretch of the season and showing where they ranked. You're just twisting data to make it support your argument.

 

[jurb26]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss.

You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made no sense to me whatsoever.

Fixed.I agree with the notion that Moss is hit or miss while Harrison is safe and steady.

Sorry, just got home form working in freaking 95 degree heat.

 

[Slinger]

95 degrees? You must be up in Alaska! It's 101 in some parts.

 

[SSOG]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made sense to me what so ever.

I interpreted your post (the "you can win OR lose your league with Moss, you can't lose your league with Marvin") to mean that the selection of Randy Moss could cost you your Fantasy Football league, while the selection of Marvin Harrison could not. Is this correct?I would say that last year was a "bad year" for Randy Moss, and should be looked at as his downside if he plays 16 games. Do you agree that if Randy Moss plays all 16 games, he should be good for at least 1,000 yards and 8 scores this year?Last year, Randy Moss finished as the #36 overall player, according to season-ending VBD. That's the very end of the 3rd round. If you select a player in the 2nd round (where Moss is currently going), and that player performs like a late 3rd rounder (like Moss's downside is), and you lose your league... that's not Moss's fault.I'm arguing your point. You are no more likely to lose your league as a result of drafting Randy Moss than you are to lose your league as a result of drafting Marvin Harrison. Randy Moss's floor is still only about a round or two lower than where he is currently being drafted- and anytime a player's floor is still 3rd-round caliber production, then that player is not going to "lose you a league".Clear now?

 

[jurb26]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made sense to me what so ever.

I interpreted your post (the "you can win OR lose your league with Moss, you can't lose your league with Marvin") to mean that the selection of Randy Moss could cost you your Fantasy Football league, while the selection of Marvin Harrison could not. Is this correct?I would say that last year was a "bad year" for Randy Moss, and should be looked at as his downside if he plays 16 games. Do you agree that if Randy Moss plays all 16 games, he should be good for at least 1,000 yards and 8 scores this year?Last year, Randy Moss finished as the #36 overall player, according to season-ending VBD. That's the very end of the 3rd round. If you select a player in the 2nd round (where Moss is currently going), and that player performs like a late 3rd rounder (like Moss's downside is), and you lose your league... that's not Moss's fault.I'm arguing your point. You are no more likely to lose your league as a result of drafting Randy Moss than you are to lose your league as a result of drafting Marvin Harrison. Randy Moss's floor is still only about a round or two lower than where he is currently being drafted- and anytime a player's floor is still 3rd-round caliber production, then that player is not going to "lose you a league".Clear now?

 

[SSOG]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made sense to me what so ever.

I interpreted your post (the "you can win OR lose your league with Moss, you can't lose your league with Marvin") to mean that the selection of Randy Moss could cost you your Fantasy Football league, while the selection of Marvin Harrison could not. Is this correct?I would say that last year was a "bad year" for Randy Moss, and should be looked at as his downside if he plays 16 games. Do you agree that if Randy Moss plays all 16 games, he should be good for at least 1,000 yards and 8 scores this year?Last year, Randy Moss finished as the #36 overall player, according to season-ending VBD. That's the very end of the 3rd round. If you select a player in the 2nd round (where Moss is currently going), and that player performs like a late 3rd rounder (like Moss's downside is), and you lose your league... that's not Moss's fault.I'm arguing your point. You are no more likely to lose your league as a result of drafting Randy Moss than you are to lose your league as a result of drafting Marvin Harrison. Randy Moss's floor is still only about a round or two lower than where he is currently being drafted- and anytime a player's floor is still 3rd-round caliber production, then that player is not going to "lose you a league".Clear now?

Do you honestly not understand, or are you just trying to be a jerk?Either way, I don't know how I can make it any clearer, except by clarifying that instead of "your post" I meant "the original post".Edit: Here, I'll try one last time. This is as clear as I can possibly make it.bd3521 said "You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin." That is incorrect. You are no more likely to lose your league because you drafted Randy Moss than you are to lose your league because you drafted Marvin Harrison.

 

[jurb26]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

I also disagree with this, too. Last year, despite all that happened, Randy Moss finished as the #15 ranked WR. 15 WRs are generally selected by the 4th round or so. Even if he repeats last year's performance, the worst in his career in terms of points per game... would getting 4th round production out of a 2nd round pick really lose you any leagues?

Thank you, that comment made sense to me what so ever.

I interpreted your post (the "you can win OR lose your league with Moss, you can't lose your league with Marvin") to mean that the selection of Randy Moss could cost you your Fantasy Football league, while the selection of Marvin Harrison could not. Is this correct?I would say that last year was a "bad year" for Randy Moss, and should be looked at as his downside if he plays 16 games. Do you agree that if Randy Moss plays all 16 games, he should be good for at least 1,000 yards and 8 scores this year?Last year, Randy Moss finished as the #36 overall player, according to season-ending VBD. That's the very end of the 3rd round. If you select a player in the 2nd round (where Moss is currently going), and that player performs like a late 3rd rounder (like Moss's downside is), and you lose your league... that's not Moss's fault.I'm arguing your point. You are no more likely to lose your league as a result of drafting Randy Moss than you are to lose your league as a result of drafting Marvin Harrison. Randy Moss's floor is still only about a round or two lower than where he is currently being drafted- and anytime a player's floor is still 3rd-round caliber production, then that player is not going to "lose you a league".Clear now?

Do you honestly not understand, or are you just trying to be a jerk?Either way, I don't know how I can make it any clearer, except by clarifying that instead of "your post" I meant "the original post".

Are you reading this thread, seriously? :whoosh: I've agreed with everything you've said.

 

[Getinthemix]

SSOG,

Reading comprehension 101.

jburg /= bd3521

 

[SSOG]

Are you reading this thread, seriously? :whoosh: I've agreed with everything you've said.

Ummmm... yeah. If someone s me, my understanding is that they don't understand, and my reaction is to try to explain it. :whoosh:

SSOG, Reading comprehension 101.jburg /= bd3521

Getinthemix,Reading comprehension 102.Before correcting me for when I mistakenly mixed up two posters, check to make sure I haven't already corrected myself in the post two above yours.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

Kinda reminds me of a part in the movie Rounders. Ever seen it? A good poker player plays with the mentality that you can't lose what you don't put in the middle. At the end of the movie he realizes that you cant win much this way either, and then wins it all. Just kind of something to think about in terms of fantasy risks.

 

[WarRedbirds]

You can win OR lose your league with Moss. You can't lose your league with Marvin.

Kinda reminds me of a part in the movie Rounders. Ever seen it? A good poker player plays with the mentality that you can't lose what you don't put in the middle. At the end of the movie he realizes that you cant win much this way either, and then wins it all. Just kind of something to think about in terms of fantasy risks.

Excellent reminder!

 

[Marvin88]

I don't see what the confusion is - the answer is obvious!

 

[H.K.]

I can see how some people might prefer Moss, but I'd rather have Marv.

With Edge in Arizona, you have to figure there will be more balls in the air in Indy.

You never know what you will get out of Brooks. He could implode at any time.

Meanwhile, the guy throwing to Harrison.......

Moss - New HC, new OC, new QB = lots of change in Oakland. Walsh was a miserable failure his last go 'round (which was 10 years ago!), so bust potential is there.Harrison - Same QB, HC, OC w/ loss of star RB = back to Air Payton and stats galore for all involved.

 

[WarRedbirds]

So? Because a WR puts up a #1 stretch during the season?

Harrison was 5th in my modified PPG over the entire season. And yes...he was particularly hot in the second half. You brought up his age and Wayne. I was simply pointing out that these issues did not affect him in the second half of last season, when he (by my calculations) was older than he was in the first half, and Wayne is more experienced. I've reread your previous posts, and I now understand that you are looking for a dropoff, so 2nd half stats from last year are not relevant in this discussion.

I'm also aware that he sat out fantasy superbowls.

This to me is a very valid argument for taking Moss over Harrison.

1 Steve Smith wr 2005 34 23 342 14.87 16 4 58.002 Terrell Owens wr 2005 39 21 335 15.95 15 3 51.503 Chad Johnson wr 2005 28 19 307 16.16 15 3 49.704 Keenan McCardell wr 2005 26 17 257 15.12 15 4 49.705 Torry Holt wr 2005 34 23 358 15.57 16 2 47.806 Randy Moss wr 2005 29 15 343 22.87 11 2 46.307 Hines Ward wr 2005 19 12 219 18.25 9 4 45.808 Brandon Lloyd wr 2005 18 10 224 22.40 7 3 40.409 Jimmy Smith wr 2005 24 12 220 18.33 8 3 40.0010 Terry Glenn wr 2005 22 14 336 24.00 11 1 39.6011 Darrell Jackson wr 2005 33 22 321 14.59 18 1 38.1012 Santana Moss wr 2005 16 9 255 28.33 8 2 37.5013 Larry Fitzgerald wr 2005 26 20 266 13.30 14 1 35.0014 Keyshawn Johnson wr 2005 21 12 165 13.75 10 3 34.5015 Rod Smith wr 2005 29 22 253 11.50 14 1 31.3016 Plaxico Burress wr 2005 32 15 192 12.80 10 2 31.2017 Arnaz Battle wr 2005 22 15 171 11.40 12 2 30.3518 Deion Branch wr 2005 32 21 237 11.29 11 1 29.7019 T.J. Houshmandzadeh wr 2005 20 12 143 11.92 8 1 28.7020 Anquan Boldin wr 2005 30 18 269 14.94 15 0 28.7021 Antwaan Randle El wr 2005 14 7 220 31.43 6 1 28.6022 Chris Chambers wr 2005 32 14 154 11.00 11 1 28.3023 Joe Horn wr 2005 27 15 220 14.67 13 1 28.0024 Travis Taylor wr 2005 22 13 153 11.77 9 2 27.3025 Joey Galloway wr 2005 17 10 150 15.00 8 2 27.0026 Donald Driver wr 2005 19 12 202 16.83 8 1 26.2027 Muhsin Muhammad wr 2005 33 16 198 12.38 10 1 25.8028 Eddie Kennison wr 2005 24 16 240 15.00 10 0 24.8029 Robert Ferguson wr 2005 18 9 119 13.22 6 2 23.9030 Frisman Jackson wr 2005 14 11 168 15.27 7 1 22.8031 Drew Bennett wr 2005 25 12 227 18.92 8 0 22.7032 Braylon Edwards wr 2005 16 9 166 18.44 5 1 22.6033 Greg Lewis wr 2005 25 15 153 10.20 9 1 22.1034 Derrick Mason wr 2005 22 16 159 9.94 9 1 21.9035 Marvin Harrison wr 2005 27 15 158 10.53 9 1 21.80Does that demonstrate that Marvin Harrison is ready to fall off the face of the planet?

:whoosh: Guess I missed the point...not sure what those numbers are.

It doesn't matter what they are. The point is that it doesn't do much good to evaluate players by selecting some arbitrary stretch of the season and showing where they ranked. You're just twisting data to make it support your argument.

Hmmm.