Randy Moss (1 Viewer)

[Blackjacks]

Look at how he disrespected his new coach and you'll see why I'm convinced he's gone

Kiffin's first test

Posted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on January 28th, 2007

The story making the rounds at the Senior Bowl is that Lane Kiffin's first attempt at establishing a rapport with Randy Moss didn't go too well.

Think Shell vs. Porter.

That confrontation, in the office of the head coach some 10 or 11 months ago, was the first crack in the foundation of the Shell regime.

Kiffin, by contrast, supposedly had trouble reaching Moss by phone. When he finally did, as the story goes, Moss told him in a pointed, profane terms he wasn't interested in talking.

It's been reported on a pair of ESPN radio interviews, and a source at the Senior Bowl confirms Kiffin vs. Moss was indeed a topic of discussion among coaches, scouts and personnel men in Mobile, Ala.

It's worth noting that no one has gone on the record with this story as of yet. Like the party game in which a story is whispered in the ear of one and passed down the line until it ends up being something completely different or exaggerated, maybe it's not as serious as it sounds.

But considering the way Moss acted last season, it certainly sounds possible.

The history of the Raiders new coach is that he addresses situations decisively, choosing a course of action then moving ahead, confident in his convictions. That he can sell an idea and is confident enough (some call it arrogant) to make it work.

I've spent the last few days researching and writing a profile on Kiffin, attempting to chart his path from a football savvy youth to, well, an NFL coaching youth. It will run in Monday's ANG Newspapers.

(That's at least part of my excuse for not filing blogs the past few days _ although it should be noted that with Kiffin hired, I won't be filing every day in this forum. Your own thoughts, however, are always welcome).

Family members, as well as friends and colleagues, have the utmost confidence Kiffin is up to handling even the most difficult veteran players.

David Watson, a USC assistant coach who went to high school with Kiffin, said his friend has dealt with all manner of personalities with the Trojans.

John Reaves, a former Florida quarterback who played nine years in the NFL and happens to be Kiffin's father-in-law, said Kiffin will have no problem taking a problem player "to the woodshed.''

Kiffin has two choices with Moss. He can either keep working to make nice, or tell Al Davis that the highest-salaried player on the team threatens to undermine his program before it starts.

If Moss indeed cursed Kiffin right off the bat, he may be doing the Raiders a favor. It's better for Moss to create an impossible situation and attempt to force at trade early than for him to show up, pretend to care, then turn off the spigot at his leisure.

It's possible that to have Moss insubordinate and uncooperative from Day 1 could be the first big break of the Kiffin regime becuase it could spur Davis to get rid of him.

The problem is Davis wants top dollar for top talent, and Moss has been so indifferent his value is at an all-time low.

If Kiffin didn't yet understand what it meant to be head coach of the Raiders at his press conference, he surely does now.

 

[Rounders]

Moss is jealous of TO

 

[mcjc4]

Trade him back to MN for Nap Harris and Troy Williamson

 

[Blackjacks]

Trade him back to MN for Nap Harris and Troy Williamson

 

[massraider]

If Moss indeed cursed Kiffin right off the bat, he may be doing the Raiders a favor. It's better for Moss to create an impossible situation and attempt to force at trade early than for him to show up, pretend to care, then turn off the spigot at his leisure.It's possible that to have Moss insubordinate and uncooperative from Day 1 could be the first big break of the Kiffin regime becuase it could spur Davis to get rid of him.

I certainly agree with this. And I really don't care what they get for him. If anything. I just want him gone. And Moss is going to help someone, he just didn't handle Oakland well.

 

[ashybaby]

Moss is going the TO route by trying to force a trade or his release by being subordinate. It'll work. No way the Raiders can pay someone 10 million and not get decent production in return.

 

[Blackjacks]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

 

[Blackjacks]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for?

Let's attack it this way:What is he actually worth? A bag of kicking tees.

What does Al Davis think he's worth? Tomlinson, Palmer and Fitzgerald.

<_< What do you think a team would have to offer to get him realistically?

I'm thinking a third would be the most by a team and the least for the raiders.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Moss is going the TO route by trying to force a trade or his release by being subordinate. It'll work. No way the Raiders can pay someone 10 million and not get decent production in return.

What makes their approach this year so much different than Porter last year?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i wouldn't put it past davis to cut off his nose to spite his face...

he buried marcus allen on the bench before, he could do it again...

 

[Phurfur]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

Why do you think GB could happen? Ted Thompson, by his action, is building his own team through the draft. The fans hate Moss and do not want to see him play for GB. What could Moss offer the youngest team in the NFL except a bad example. Moss will not be going to GB. How about Moss to Dallas and have a tandum of Owens and Moss.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Moss is going the TO route by trying to force a trade or his release by being subordinate. It'll work. No way the Raiders can pay someone 10 million and not get decent production in return.

What makes their approach this year so much different than Porter last year?

Money? Porter made 1 million last year. Moss is scheduled to make 9.75 million.

 

[BigJim®]

What? That's weird. I was certain a 31 year old would command respect in that locker room.

 

[fruity pebbles]

i wouldn't put it past davis to cut off his nose to spite his face...he buried marcus allen on the bench before, he could do it again...

not seeing as how Davis gets any revenge at all though. He pays Moss 10 million and Randy doesn't have to do a thing for it. Seems like a win-win for Randy and a loss-loss for Davis.

 

[Blackjacks]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

Why do you think GB could happen? Ted Thompson, by his action, is building his own team through the draft. The fans hate Moss and do not want to see him play for GB. What could Moss offer the youngest team in the NFL except a bad example. Moss will not be going to GB. How about Moss to Dallas and have a tandum of Owens and Moss.

Fans in Dallas hated TO after the "star" episode as well but people forget once the guy is on their team. Moss would give Favre a chance to go out on top and that would make every Packers fan happy. I saw Moss early in the season standing right by Shell and trying to be a team leader. Maybe I'm just looking for the silver lining but I really think Randy is a super competitive person and realized no matter what he did he couldn't help the situation and just gave up. That isn't right but I don't think he'll be a quitter on another team.

 

[Blackjacks]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

 

[BigJim®]

There's no way the Raiders are able to trade Moss, particularly if this story is true. The chances that another NFL team would give value to pick up Moss' unjustified contract, rather than waiting for him to be dumped and be able to sign him on their terms, is hardly worth considering as a possibility IMHO. Frankly, at this point the real question should be which team would consider signing Moss to a heavily incentive contract as a FA. I'm guessing the answer to that is 1 or two teams, and one of them is already strong at WR.

 

[fruity pebbles]

There's no way the Raiders are able to trade Moss, particularly if this story is true. The chances that another NFL team would give value to pick up Moss' unjustified contract, rather than waiting for him to be dumped and be able to sign him on their terms, is hardly worth considering as a possibility IMHO. Frankly, at this point the real question should be which team would consider signing Moss to a heavily incentive contract as a FA. I'm guessing the answer to that is 1 or two teams, and one of them is already strong at WR.

There's a lot of cap room out there and no big name WRs available in the free agent market. Wouldn't surprise me if a team trades a 3rd for him thinking they can make him into the Randy of old.

 

[Rovers]

What is it with WR's, anyway? Sure, some of them are team players, but sooo many seem to come from the turd farm, it's amazing.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Moss is going the TO route by trying to force a trade or his release by being subordinate. It'll work. No way the Raiders can pay someone 10 million and not get decent production in return.

What makes their approach this year so much different than Porter last year?

Money? Porter made 1 million last year. Moss is scheduled to make 9.75 million.

I thought he made much more than that. I guess I was factoring in some bonus?

 

[ravnzfan]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Jamal FA after 3/1...he is under contract, but it calls for $5M roster bonus 3/1 and $5M salary--ditto '08...NOBODY trades for that deal! he's on the street on or before 3/1also...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie doesOzzie does let Brian in on the QB situation, but that's it....speaking of QB situation:there was no other team left on the planet last summer needing a QB, and Tenn locked McNair out of their facility---Ozzie refused to budge earlier in the spring (Tenn wanted an '06 pick, we wanted to deal an '07, which is why trade didn't happen in April)Ozzie finally got the guy at his price, but was willing to go forward w/Boller had they not been able to get McNairI mention that because we HAVE WR's here now, so if Ozzie was willing to go forward w/Boller (who no one thinks can play), why would he make a deal for a head case like Moss, when we have WR's that can play?couple that w/the drama that surrounded Owens NOT comming here a couple years ago, and my guess is there are probably 28 more likely canidates than Baltimore for Moss' those lining up behind us, of course (in no particular order):San FranPhillyDallasno thank you, to Mr Moss

 

[fruity pebbles]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie doesOzzie does let Brian in on the QB situation, but that's it....speaking of QB situation:there was no other team left on the planet last summer needing a QB, and Tenn locked McNair out of their facility---Ozzie refused to budge earlier in the spring (Tenn wanted an '06 pick, we wanted to deal an '07, which is why trade didn't happen in April)Ozzie finally got the guy at his price, but was willing to go forward w/Boller had they not been able to get McNairon Jamal...due $5M roster bonus March 1, plus $5M salary for '07 and same for '08---NOBODY trades for that! he'll be on the street on or before 3/1I mention that because we HAVE WR's here now, so if Ozzie was willing to go forward w/Boller (who no one thinks can play), why would he make a deal for a head case like Moss, when we have WR's that can play?couple that w/the drama that surrounded Owens NOT comming here a couple years ago, and my guess is there are probably 28 more likely canidates than Baltimore for Moss' those lining up behind us, of course (in no particular order):San FranPhillyDallasno thank you, to Mr Moss

Why do you feel you're set at WR? Looks like Clayton and a couple of so so players. If Moss had his head on straight he could really help you guys opposite clayton IMO. Cut Mason.

 

[jeter23]

So if nobody is interested, considering the possible high price, do Raiders homers expect him to be cut?

 

[ravnzfan]

front office, coaching staff and fans love DWilliams...watch this kid

Moss isn't going to be any happier here than Owens would have been

I'm not saying the passing game can't use help---just not at the price ($$$, emotionally, etc) that comes along w/a Moss or Owens kind of guy...Ozzie felt betrayed by the way the conversation went w/Owners, about "the deal" as he understood it and "no deal" that Ownes said he never aggreed to--he won't touch Moss

Mason deal was for 5 yrs, 3 left...beside cost of Moss, there is the cap hit here

way too much, IMO, when you add it all up

 

[BigJim®]

There's no way the Raiders are able to trade Moss, particularly if this story is true. The chances that another NFL team would give value to pick up Moss' unjustified contract, rather than waiting for him to be dumped and be able to sign him on their terms, is hardly worth considering as a possibility IMHO. Frankly, at this point the real question should be which team would consider signing Moss to a heavily incentive contract as a FA. I'm guessing the answer to that is 1 or two teams, and one of them is already strong at WR.

There's a lot of cap room out there and no big name WRs available in the free agent market. Wouldn't surprise me if a team trades a 3rd for him thinking they can make him into the Randy of old.

I could be completely wrong about this, but can't imagine there are many teams who would take on Randy Moss' baggage, and his monster contract, hoping he can become productive again. I don't know what he's owed after restructuring with the Raiders, but his contract has to be way, way, way beyond what anyone could hope he'll produce.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

So if nobody is interested, considering the possible high price, do Raiders homers expect him to be cut?

The issue at hand is a player at Moss's stage of his career, salary and some of the distractions that he brings. Best scenerio is a mid round pick and a bad contarct on the other way coming to Oakland.

 

[hi1111]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie doesOzzie does let Brian in on the QB situation, but that's it....speaking of QB situation:there was no other team left on the planet last summer needing a QB, and Tenn locked McNair out of their facility---Ozzie refused to budge earlier in the spring (Tenn wanted an '06 pick, we wanted to deal an '07, which is why trade didn't happen in April)Ozzie finally got the guy at his price, but was willing to go forward w/Boller had they not been able to get McNairon Jamal...due $5M roster bonus March 1, plus $5M salary for '07 and same for '08---NOBODY trades for that! he'll be on the street on or before 3/1I mention that because we HAVE WR's here now, so if Ozzie was willing to go forward w/Boller (who no one thinks can play), why would he make a deal for a head case like Moss, when we have WR's that can play?couple that w/the drama that surrounded Owens NOT comming here a couple years ago, and my guess is there are probably 28 more likely canidates than Baltimore for Moss' those lining up behind us, of course (in no particular order):San FranPhillyDallasno thank you, to Mr Moss

Why do you feel you're set at WR? Looks like Clayton and a couple of so so players. If Moss had his head on straight he could really help you guys opposite clayton IMO. Cut Mason.

soso? clayton was the best WR to come out of that draft. mason is a consistent reciever and devard darling, clarence moore are both physically gifted. now demetrius williams is going to be good, how long down the line well see but hes shown he can play watch the carolina game and youll see

 

[fruity pebbles]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie doesOzzie does let Brian in on the QB situation, but that's it....speaking of QB situation:there was no other team left on the planet last summer needing a QB, and Tenn locked McNair out of their facility---Ozzie refused to budge earlier in the spring (Tenn wanted an '06 pick, we wanted to deal an '07, which is why trade didn't happen in April)Ozzie finally got the guy at his price, but was willing to go forward w/Boller had they not been able to get McNairon Jamal...due $5M roster bonus March 1, plus $5M salary for '07 and same for '08---NOBODY trades for that! he'll be on the street on or before 3/1I mention that because we HAVE WR's here now, so if Ozzie was willing to go forward w/Boller (who no one thinks can play), why would he make a deal for a head case like Moss, when we have WR's that can play?couple that w/the drama that surrounded Owens NOT comming here a couple years ago, and my guess is there are probably 28 more likely canidates than Baltimore for Moss' those lining up behind us, of course (in no particular order):San FranPhillyDallasno thank you, to Mr Moss

Why do you feel you're set at WR? Looks like Clayton and a couple of so so players. If Moss had his head on straight he could really help you guys opposite clayton IMO. Cut Mason.

soso? clayton was the best WR to come out of that draft. mason is a consistent reciever and devard darling, clarence moore are both physically gifted. now demetrius williams is going to be good, how long down the line well see but hes shown he can play watch the carolina game and youll see

I didn't say clayton was so so. The rest are. Mason is the definition of so so at this point in his career. Darling and Moore...blah. Williams has definite potential.

 

[phthalatemagic]

soso? clayton was the best WR to come out of that draft. mason is a consistent reciever and devard darling, clarence moore are both physically gifted. now demetrius williams is going to be good, how long down the line well see but hes shown he can play watch the carolina game and youll see

Soso seems like "average" to me.Even including Clayton, how would you rate your WR corps? It's average to me.

 

[ravnzfan]

soso? clayton was the best WR to come out of that draft. mason is a consistent reciever and devard darling, clarence moore are both physically gifted. now demetrius williams is going to be good, how long down the line well see but hes shown he can play watch the carolina game and youll see

Soso seems like "average" to me.Even including Clayton, how would you rate your WR corps? It's average to me.

I've never, or ever will, call our passing game any more than "avg at best"the notion that Moss would come here because he played under Billick a liftime ago is crazy talk...THAT is my pointthere was a time a couple seasons ago we had:Marcus RobinsonRandy HymesCMoore(as a rookie, Div I-AA player)as the WR corps...THAT was piss poor!w/Mason, Clayton and Williams---coupled w/$35M pass catcher Heap, the Ravens will in no way, shape or form make a play for Moss and that deal...the original poster also suggested JLewis be "the guy", which is impossible, as I've already talked aboutI just wish folks would think for 5 seconds before they just throw something in the wind like:"hey, Moss to Baltimore for JLewis...that's a good deal!"and think they're onto something

 

[Kai's Hero]

Look at how he disrespected his new coach and you'll see why I'm convinced he's goneKiffin's first testPosted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on January 28th, 2007The story making the rounds at the Senior Bowl is that Lane Kiffin's first attempt at establishing a rapport with Randy Moss didn't go too well.Think Shell vs. Porter.That confrontation, in the office of the head coach some 10 or 11 months ago, was the first crack in the foundation of the Shell regime.Kiffin, by contrast, supposedly had trouble reaching Moss by phone. When he finally did, as the story goes, Moss told him in a pointed, profane terms he wasn't interested in talking.It's been reported on a pair of ESPN radio interviews, and a source at the Senior Bowl confirms Kiffin vs. Moss was indeed a topic of discussion among coaches, scouts and personnel men in Mobile, Ala.It's worth noting that no one has gone on the record with this story as of yet. Like the party game in which a story is whispered in the ear of one and passed down the line until it ends up being something completely different or exaggerated, maybe it's not as serious as it sounds.But considering the way Moss acted last season, it certainly sounds possible.The history of the Raiders new coach is that he addresses situations decisively, choosing a course of action then moving ahead, confident in his convictions. That he can sell an idea and is confident enough (some call it arrogant) to make it work.I've spent the last few days researching and writing a profile on Kiffin, attempting to chart his path from a football savvy youth to, well, an NFL coaching youth. It will run in Monday's ANG Newspapers.(That's at least part of my excuse for not filing blogs the past few days _ although it should be noted that with Kiffin hired, I won't be filing every day in this forum. Your own thoughts, however, are always welcome).Family members, as well as friends and colleagues, have the utmost confidence Kiffin is up to handling even the most difficult veteran players.David Watson, a USC assistant coach who went to high school with Kiffin, said his friend has dealt with all manner of personalities with the Trojans.John Reaves, a former Florida quarterback who played nine years in the NFL and happens to be Kiffin's father-in-law, said Kiffin will have no problem taking a problem player "to the woodshed.''Kiffin has two choices with Moss. He can either keep working to make nice, or tell Al Davis that the highest-salaried player on the team threatens to undermine his program before it starts.If Moss indeed cursed Kiffin right off the bat, he may be doing the Raiders a favor. It's better for Moss to create an impossible situation and attempt to force at trade early than for him to show up, pretend to care, then turn off the spigot at his leisure.It's possible that to have Moss insubordinate and uncooperative from Day 1 could be the first big break of the Kiffin regime becuase it could spur Davis to get rid of him.The problem is Davis wants top dollar for top talent, and Moss has been so indifferent his value is at an all-time low.If Kiffin didn't yet understand what it meant to be head coach of the Raiders at his press conference, he surely does now.

If I was a GM I would give no more than a 5th round choice for him. He's not the player he once was. He creates little, if no, separation and you have to take on his attitude and his propensity to take plays off. Let him go. The Raiders need a fresh start and NEED players to buy into their program.

 

[Spartans Rule]

the notion that Moss would come here because he played under Billick a liftime ago is crazy talk...THAT is my point

Just like every preseason we hear that finally, this is the year Billick makes the Ravens into a wide-open passing team like he coached in Minnesota a decade ago.Brian Billick is a good football coach. He's got a really good thing going in Baltimore and he isn't about to blow it up just because he was OC of a great passing team in 1997.

 

[Kai's Hero]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Jamal FA after 3/1...he is under contract, but it calls for $5M roster bonus 3/1 and $5M salary--ditto '08...NOBODY trades for that deal! he's on the street on or before 3/1also...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie does

This is why I said depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations. As obviously in both cases here, there would be a renegotiation of contracts. All GM's ultimately pull the trigger, not just Ozzie Newsome. You are simply stating the obvious...

Bottom line here is Randy Moss would be a substantial upgrade to the Ravens WR corps, has worked well with Billick in the past, and Billick is very familiar with him. If the Ravens plan on letting Jamal Lewis go via free agency anyway, then their cost for Moss in this deal is strictly a salary issue. Which makes it a good deal for them.

As for Lewis to the Raiders...A power back like Lewis can benefit the confidence of the young Raider line, as he rarely goes backward (loses yardage). Lewis is still fairly young (27) as NFL RB's go, and if the Raiders could lock him into a 3 year deal to their liking, it just might make sense on their end? It would be one less position on the offense they would need to address this year...

The Raiders have a back that runs with power and has more burst than Jamal in Lamont Jordan. Plus he's more of a receiving threat than Jamal is and has less wear and tear on his body.

 

[cstu]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for? Has Moss's value dropped down far enough to only get a third round pick for him? I'm a dynasty owners of his and want him out of Oakland in the worst way. I think he would look great in GB or NE. I think NE is a pipe dream personally but I think GB could happen. A third round pick could be a steal for Moss's talent, do you think that is all it would take?

I would knock on Brian Billick's door in Baltimore. Billick is familar with Moss from his Minnesota OC days. Perhaps something like Moss for Jamal Lewis straight up? Depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations of course...Ray Lewis and company should be able to help keep Moss in line, plus Moss would have a well respected veteran QB in Steve McNair.

touchette, that is a good thought. I don't see Oakland wanting Jamal but maybe another player or a pick but Balt. would definetly being a good choice.

small problem...Jamal FA after 3/1...he is under contract, but it calls for $5M roster bonus 3/1 and $5M salary--ditto '08...NOBODY trades for that deal! he's on the street on or before 3/1also...Billick doesn't pull the trigger, Ozzie does

This is why I said depending on the cap ramifications and contract negotiations. As obviously in both cases here, there would be a renegotiation of contracts. All GM's ultimately pull the trigger, not just Ozzie Newsome. You are simply stating the obvious...

Bottom line here is Randy Moss would be a substantial upgrade to the Ravens WR corps, has worked well with Billick in the past, and Billick is very familiar with him. If the Ravens plan on letting Jamal Lewis go via free agency anyway, then their cost for Moss in this deal is strictly a salary issue. Which makes it a good deal for them.

As for Lewis to the Raiders...A power back like Lewis can benefit the confidence of the young Raider line, as he rarely goes backward (loses yardage). Lewis is still fairly young (27) as NFL RB's go, and if the Raiders could lock him into a 3 year deal to their liking, it just might make sense on their end? It would be one less position on the offense they would need to address this year...

The Raiders have a back that runs with power and has more burst than Jamal in Lamont Jordan. Plus he's more of a receiving threat than Jamal is and has less wear and tear on his body.

FYI Jordan is in the last year of his contract...and Jordan hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full NFL season, which was the rap on him in college.

He signed a 5 year deal is 2005, he has 3 years left.

 

[trader jake]

Contract extension or not, Billick needs to win in the playoffs soon or he'll be gone.

I'm not sure if Newsome will let Billick bring him in though. Somehow I doubt it.

What about a Randy Moss for Mike Williams swap...Moss to Detroit in a Martz offense and BMW back to ball in California?

 

[Couch Potato]

I've read it nowhere and have no to support this -- call it a Couch Potato hunch -- but I think Moss will end up in Jacksonville starting opposite Matt Jones. I don't know if it'll be via trade or signed after a release, but that's where I think he'll be.

Here's why I believe Moss will be a Jaguar:

1) After going 12-4 in 2005, they took a step back and missed the playoffs in 2006. Management is on the hot seat (especially JDR) to advance deep into the playoffs in 2007. Teams that believe they are one impact player away from Super Bowl contention are the kinds of teams that will be looking at Moss.

2) I believe they will decide to keep Leftwich and part ways with Garrard. Leftwich has the bigger arm and they'll want to use the deep pass more often than they did in 2006. New OC Dirk Koetter was brought in as a proponent of schemes to throw deep out of play action, and their power running offense needs a receiver who can get open deep and make plays.

3) It's no secret the WRs underachieved. Jones still hasn't evolved as a receiver to where they want him to be yet and hasn't been healthy, Williams (though better in 2006 than in 2005) hasn't justified his 9th overall draft pick status, and Wilford isn't a difference maker. Neither Williams or Wilford have the deep ball playmaking ability the Jaguars are looking for.

4) Assistant head coach/offense Mike Tice had Moss in Minnesota and the belief will be that they can get Moss back on track when playing for a winning organization with playoff expectations.

Take it for what it's worth, but I was right last year about where Owens ended up. A year ago at this time the speculation in this thread was where T.O. would go (Jan 20 - two months before he signed), and the board had suggestions (in order) of CHI, KC, GB, SD, TB, MIA, SF, DAL, DEN, OAK, WAS, JAX.

In my post I said

I'd actually be surprised if he ended up anywhere except Dallas. In addition to points made by others earlier in this thread, don't underestimate the Michael Irvin factor. Owens and Irvin are friends who speak regularly, and I'm sure Irvin has Owens' ear on this one. Being the star on "America's Team" is what TO will want. Jones will want him there. Done deal.

 

[phthalatemagic]

the notion that Moss would come here because he played under Billick a liftime ago is crazy talk...THAT is my pointw/Mason, Clayton and Williams---coupled w/$35M pass catcher Heap, the Ravens will in no way, shape or form make a play for Moss and that deal

In one breath you say you think the trade is silly because it is based on the fact that they used to work together (makes sense) then the next one you list the receiving corps and suggest Randy Moss doesn't fit in because they are good enough (exactly opposite what you were saying previously)If you think it's a bad idea, fine. I just don't understand throwing craziness out that suggests the Ravens' WR/TE corps is good enough and that's why it is a silly idea. Some people around here think the Ravens would be well served in getting a better WR. If you aren't one of them, I suspect you are in the minority.

 

[ravnzfan]

the notion that Moss would come here because he played under Billick a liftime ago is crazy talk...THAT is my point

Just like every preseason we hear that finally, this is the year Billick makes the Ravens into a wide-open passing team like he coached in Minnesota a decade ago.

Brian Billick is a good football coach. He's got a really good thing going in Baltimore and he isn't about to blow it up just because he was OC of a great passing team in 1997.

You might wanna check into Derrick Mason's production over there, money Maybe you like 700 yards and 2 touchdowns, combined with 2 receptions for 16 yards in the playoff game versus Indy, there money...but that just doesn't cut it in the NFL.

And I don't recall anyone here saying Billick was turning the Ravens into the record setting offense he had back in Minny.

I guess the Ravens attempts to bring Terrell Owens in a couple years back remains clueless to you two guys

no sport...my point was that that whole debacle about Owens is another reason that Ozzie won't touch MossOzzie was hurt by that whole mess, and won't touch anything like that chacter w/a 10 ft pole

but you keep patting youself on the back for this piece of fiction...

 

[ravnzfan]

Contract extension or not, Billick needs to win in the playoffs soon or he'll be gone.

I'm not sure if Newsome will let Billick bring him in though. Somehow I doubt it.

What about a Randy Moss for Mike Williams swap...Moss to Detroit in a Martz offense and BMW back to ball in California?

just got extended....yeah, he's next on the block where do you guys get this stuff!

 

[Blackjacks]

Look at how he disrespected his new coach and you'll see why I'm convinced he's goneKiffin's first testPosted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on January 28th, 2007The story making the rounds at the Senior Bowl is that Lane Kiffin's first attempt at establishing a rapport with Randy Moss didn't go too well.Think Shell vs. Porter.That confrontation, in the office of the head coach some 10 or 11 months ago, was the first crack in the foundation of the Shell regime.Kiffin, by contrast, supposedly had trouble reaching Moss by phone. When he finally did, as the story goes, Moss told him in a pointed, profane terms he wasn't interested in talking.It's been reported on a pair of ESPN radio interviews, and a source at the Senior Bowl confirms Kiffin vs. Moss was indeed a topic of discussion among coaches, scouts and personnel men in Mobile, Ala.It's worth noting that no one has gone on the record with this story as of yet. Like the party game in which a story is whispered in the ear of one and passed down the line until it ends up being something completely different or exaggerated, maybe it's not as serious as it sounds.But considering the way Moss acted last season, it certainly sounds possible.The history of the Raiders new coach is that he addresses situations decisively, choosing a course of action then moving ahead, confident in his convictions. That he can sell an idea and is confident enough (some call it arrogant) to make it work.I've spent the last few days researching and writing a profile on Kiffin, attempting to chart his path from a football savvy youth to, well, an NFL coaching youth. It will run in Monday's ANG Newspapers.(That's at least part of my excuse for not filing blogs the past few days _ although it should be noted that with Kiffin hired, I won't be filing every day in this forum. Your own thoughts, however, are always welcome).Family members, as well as friends and colleagues, have the utmost confidence Kiffin is up to handling even the most difficult veteran players.David Watson, a USC assistant coach who went to high school with Kiffin, said his friend has dealt with all manner of personalities with the Trojans.John Reaves, a former Florida quarterback who played nine years in the NFL and happens to be Kiffin's father-in-law, said Kiffin will have no problem taking a problem player "to the woodshed.''Kiffin has two choices with Moss. He can either keep working to make nice, or tell Al Davis that the highest-salaried player on the team threatens to undermine his program before it starts.If Moss indeed cursed Kiffin right off the bat, he may be doing the Raiders a favor. It's better for Moss to create an impossible situation and attempt to force at trade early than for him to show up, pretend to care, then turn off the spigot at his leisure.It's possible that to have Moss insubordinate and uncooperative from Day 1 could be the first big break of the Kiffin regime becuase it could spur Davis to get rid of him.The problem is Davis wants top dollar for top talent, and Moss has been so indifferent his value is at an all-time low.If Kiffin didn't yet understand what it meant to be head coach of the Raiders at his press conference, he surely does now.

If I was a GM I would give no more than a 5th round choice for him. He's not the player he once was. He creates little, if no, separation and you have to take on his attitude and his propensity to take plays off. Let him go. The Raiders need a fresh start and NEED players to buy into their program.

I don't think any wr in the NFL could have gotten seperation is 4 seconds on the Raiders team last year. Randy is still an elite talent and if put back in a good situation (on a winning team, with a good qb and in a dome on astroturf) he could return to simliar #'s back in the day.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE

One of the most anticipated of those chats was with receiver Randy Moss. Moss' effort was questioned last season, and he spoke of his unhappiness. Moss' 42 catches for 553 yards and three touchdowns were career lows. He missed the last three games with a sprained ankle.

Rumors already were circulating that Moss had refused to take Kiffin's phone calls to discuss the upcoming season or had cursed the coach over the phone.

Moss' attorney, J. Timothy DiPiero, said by telephone from West Virginia that he had heard the rumors but doesn't know where they came from.

"They spoke recently and they were cordial and that's all I know about it," DiPiero said.

Moss said in a radio interview during the season that he looked forward to playing for another team in 2007.

"The bottom line from my standpoint was (Kiffin) called the other day and was real enthusiastic about the future," DiPiero said. "He was talking up next year."

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I've read it nowhere and have no to support this -- call it a Couch Potato hunch -- but I think Moss will end up in Jacksonville starting opposite Matt Jones. I don't know if it'll be via trade or signed after a release, but that's where I think he'll be.

Here's why I believe Moss will be a Jaguar:

1) After going 12-4 in 2005, they took a step back and missed the playoffs in 2006. Management is on the hot seat (especially JDR) to advance deep into the playoffs in 2007. Teams that believe they are one impact player away from Super Bowl contention are the kinds of teams that will be looking at Moss.

2) I believe they will decide to keep Leftwich and part ways with Garrard. Leftwich has the bigger arm and they'll want to use the deep pass more often than they did in 2006. New OC Dirk Koetter was brought in as a proponent of schemes to throw deep out of play action, and their power running offense needs a receiver who can get open deep and make plays.

3) It's no secret the WRs underachieved. Jones still hasn't evolved as a receiver to where they want him to be yet and hasn't been healthy, Williams (though better in 2006 than in 2005) hasn't justified his 9th overall draft pick status, and Wilford isn't a difference maker. Neither Williams or Wilford have the deep ball playmaking ability the Jaguars are looking for.

4) Assistant head coach/offense Mike Tice had Moss in Minnesota and the belief will be that they can get Moss back on track when playing for a winning organization with playoff expectations.

Take it for what it's worth, but I was right last year about where Owens ended up. A year ago at this time the speculation in this thread was where T.O. would go (Jan 20 - two months before he signed), and the board had suggestions (in order) of CHI, KC, GB, SD, TB, MIA, SF, DAL, DEN, OAK, WAS, JAX.

In my post I said

I'd actually be surprised if he ended up anywhere except Dallas. In addition to points made by others earlier in this thread, don't underestimate the Michael Irvin factor. Owens and Irvin are friends who speak regularly, and I'm sure Irvin has Owens' ear on this one. Being the star on "America's Team" is what TO will want. Jones will want him there. Done deal.

for your prediction CP. You make valid points, but I'm just not too sure that they'll want that headache in the locker room.

 

[messinwithu]

The Jets would be an interesting idea.

There has been stuff about Coles wanting to leave (I doubt this but it helps make my comment seem more realistic)

Moss has a history with Pennington and has made postitive comments about him - throws the best passes he ever caught? (something like that).

I don't think it would happen but there are at least reasons that it could happen. The Jets also have a shot at winning so that would be something Moss would like.

 

[Couch Potato]

for your prediction CP.

You make valid points, but I'm just not too sure that they'll want that headache in the locker room.

Understood. That can be said of any team though. If I were running an NFL team, the Owens and Moss types would not be allowed anywhere near my organization. I think what they add is superceded by what they take away -- focus on a team goal.

That said, he will play for someone, at some price, as long as the talent is still perceived to be there and the organization believes they can be the ones to manage and turn around the attitude.

 

[Chaos Commish]

This is just my two cent opinion after drafting Randy at 3.01 last year and regretting every minute of it while getting tons of Raider coverage and being surrounded by several die hard Raider fans.

I don't think Randy wants to play football anymore. His heart just isn't in it. I saw him interviewed at the Inta-Juice all star game and he just glows when he talks business. It may seem silly, but the story of how he ended up on the Board of Directors for a smoothy franchising company paints a picture of a man with a big dream. Then you see him at an all-star game sponsored by his company, and he's dropped the bling, the attitude, all that junk, andhe has no interest in talking about football. He's clean cut looking dapper in business attire and talking about the importance of a healthy diet and how great smoothies are. Sure, be cynical and say he's just whoring for the money, but this isn't a case of a company signing an athlete to pimp product. This is an athlete researching a product he loved, then investing heavily in the company to get seated on the board, then pimping it. I bet he thinks he can make a lot more coin with smoothies than football, and deep down inside, that may be far more fun and interesting to him. He's always had a scowling nature about him when relating to football. He really seems content and happy when relating to smoothies.

eta-- 3.01 not 2.01... I wasn't that crazy.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Let me hear from Raider fans what they think the Raiders would trade him for?

Let's attack it this way:What is he actually worth? A bag of kicking tees.

What does Al Davis think he's worth? Tomlinson, Palmer and Fitzgerald.

What do you think a team would have to offer to get him realistically?

I'm thinking a third would be the most by a team and the least for the raiders.

The key in trading value is the contract. What does he have left on teh contract and what impact would trading him have on the Cap for the Raiders. People seem to forget that if you can free up 5 mil you can spend that on another player.BTW, Nice sig...I was involved in that conversation as well MLB

 

[Blackjacks]

Mortenson was speaking this morning that Favre is wanting to bring Moss to GB and there have been talks between the 2 teams. Mortenson said that the price Davis would be asking for was a #3 this year. He said Thompson was definetly interested in Moss and also the Raiders might be interested in a young wr. This was said on Sunday Morning Countdown.

 

[Blackjacks]

I would put Moss back in the top 10 right away if he goes to GB.

 

[el centro]

Mortenson was speaking this morning that Favre is wanting to bring Moss to GB and there have been talks between the 2 teams. Mortenson said that the price Davis would be asking for was a #3 this year. He said Thompson was definetly interested in Moss and also the Raiders might be interested in a young wr. This was said on Sunday Morning Countdown.

Thanks for posting this... I was just looking to see if someone posted this or not. I only caught the tail-end of it yesterday on the Radio, and wanted to see what the scoop is. As a Packer fan... I have mixed emotions on this. On the one hand - I'm not a huge fan of Moss as I believe he'll have a tendency to bring down team-unity. Never a good thing in the locker room. If he has half the speed he once did - he'll be able to give them an unbelievable weapon next season.Plus if it's a 3rd the Raiders want - that's not much of a price to pay for a player of his caliber & potential.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

Getting a 3rd round pick for a player who has not and will not contribute for our team is more than enough in return for him.